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View Full Version : Apple of Eden confusion/plot hole? *possible spoilers*



nuncfluens
06-19-2012, 10:52 AM
We know that Ezio found a different POE than the one that belonged to Altair.

Before he died, Altair told his son to inform people that his apple was in Cyprus in order to fool those who would pursue it, but during Ezio's lifetime, Templars discovered one there.

Now - the hologram at the end of AC1 projected the location of pieces of Eden. Either the apple did not project the location of every POE, or one of them was moved to Cyprus after Altair died. He would not try to trick people into searching Cyprus for an apple if he knew there was actually an apple there.

That being said, I have these questions, and more which I hope will come back to me later...

1. Is it ever explained how an apple got to Cyprus?
2. What led the Templars to search there?
3. Is there ANY evidence in the games and novels that might lead one to think that Templars were looking for Altair's apple in Cyprus? Because that's exactly how I felt until playing Revelations, and now I'm wondering is that impression was ever justified to begin with.

So much confusion! I hope you fine folks can help.

blazefp
06-19-2012, 11:22 AM
Interesting question indeed. I'd answer you, cuz I'm sure I know the answer but my head is full of exams now and I can't remember a thing about the game xD sry

Captain Tomatoz
06-19-2012, 11:31 AM
It isn't explained how Ezio's Apple of Eden got to Cyprus or is it explained what made them look there, but that's Templars secret plans and intelligence. It's never actually said that they were after Altair's apple but its heavily implied that they were especially after Altair said to tell people that his was in Cyprus.

Maybe it will be explained in AC3 :D

Medo3G
06-19-2012, 11:34 AM
Wasn't the templar archive in Cyprus in AC bloodlines ?

TheHumanTowel
06-19-2012, 11:46 AM
Yeah this is a legitimate plot hole. It's one hell of a coincidence to have there happen to be another apple in the place Altair is diverting everyone to. Just another needless complication of the plot by Revelations.

Captain Tomatoz
06-19-2012, 12:25 PM
I wouldn't call it a plot hole because it doesn't contradict the story at all. It just hasn't been explained yet. Maybe the Templars were keeping it in their archive already and the renaissance templars went to collect it.

Assassin_M
06-19-2012, 12:48 PM
Its not that confusing at all, and as said before, its not a plot hole as long as it doesn't contradict any canonical fact. A lot of scenarios may have unfolded, Pieces of Eden can change places, they`re not exclusive to one place, the Templars had an Archive in Cyprus, so whats not to say that past templars hid an Apple there after Altair`s death and passed this information on to other templars that landed in Rodrigo Borgia`s hands.

There is nothing that suggests that they may have been searching for Altair`s apple specifically, so thats another point that does not make this a complete confusion.

Either that or this was a COMPLETE random Coincidence..

TheHumanTowel
06-19-2012, 01:13 PM
If they try to explain this as a coincidence it may not be a plot hole but it is poor writing.

blazefp
06-19-2012, 01:16 PM
They couldn't have the apple in the Archive, it was destroyed at the end of Bloodlines by themselves

Assassin_M
06-19-2012, 01:29 PM
They couldn't have the apple in the Archive, it was destroyed at the end of Bloodlines by themselves
Apparently the Archive was rebuilt, as Ezio Auditore visited it in 1510 during his stay in Cyprus on the way to Masyaf, but he found it empty. (Courtesy of the novel)

And yes it may be bad writing, but it sure as hell isnt a plot hole..

Captain Tomatoz
06-19-2012, 01:34 PM
Apparently the Archive was rebuilt, as Ezio Auditore visited it in 1510 during his stay in Cyprus on the way to Masyaf, but he found it empty. (Courtesy of the novel)

And yes it may be bad writing, but it sure as hell isnt a plot hole..

Yeah the Templars took it back when Abbas was in charge

Assassin_M
06-19-2012, 01:37 PM
Yeah the Templars took it back when Abbas was in charge
There we go, Thank you..

blazefp
06-19-2012, 04:50 PM
Yeah the Templars took it back when Abbas was in charge

They were the ones who destroy it on first place. So they wouldn't leave anything behind or something lke that. Why would they rebuilt it?

nuncfluens
06-19-2012, 06:56 PM
Thanks for the discussion. After doing some research and reading your responses, it does seem that there are no plot holes to be found--only messy, convoluted writing.

This is immaterial now, but I DID find that on page 26 of the Codex, Altair mentions hiding the apple on an island--that was the source of most of my confusion. I know the Templars couldn't have deciphered the Codex anyway, but up until Revelations came out, it just seemed logical that Altair was speaking of Cyprus and that his apple would eventually make its way into Ezio's hand.

You'd think Ubisoft would have taken stock of how confusing it would be to have both apples connected to Cyprus.

RatonhnhakeFan
06-19-2012, 07:00 PM
Thanks for the discussion. After doing some research and reading your responses, it does seem that there are no plot holes to be found--only messy, convoluted writing.

This is immaterial now, but I DID find that on page 26 of the Codex, Altair mentions hiding the apple on an island--that was the source of most of my confusion. I know the Templars couldn't have deciphered the Codex anyway, but up until Revelations came out, it just seemed logical that Altair was speaking of Cyprus and that his apple would eventually make its way into Ezio's hand.

You'd think Ubisoft would have taken stock of how confusing it would be to have both apples connected to Cyprus.
Understandable. Cyprus was the first thing that came to my mind when I read that Codex page too.

brefcourte
06-19-2012, 07:21 PM
They met each other in the THCB-Dorm-Room and exchanged their apples. Mistery explained!

Calvarok
06-19-2012, 09:29 PM
There was no apple in Cyprus at Altair's time of death. Cyprus was never a place where PoE's were hidden, it was a place where Templars hid EVERYTHING. So they found the PoE at an undisclosed location, and brought it to cyprus for pickup. (during Ezio's time, not Altair's)

HSCOnyxAssassin
06-19-2012, 10:57 PM
Thanks for the discussion. After doing some research and reading your responses, it does seem that there are no plot holes to be found--only messy, convoluted writing.

This is immaterial now, but I DID find that on page 26 of the Codex, Altair mentions hiding the apple on an island--that was the source of most of my cat ventually make its way into Ezio's hand.

You'd think Ubisoft would have taken stock of how confusing it would be to have both apples connected to Cyprus.

It's been a while since I've read the codex but doesn't it HEAVILY imply that the island he hid it on was Cyprus? The codex says something along the lines of "The island was once theirs but is now ours". Sorry but that does seem like a bit of a glaring plot hole. But I could be wrong.

JumpInTheFire13
06-20-2012, 12:03 AM
It's been a while since I've read the codex but doesn't it HEAVILY imply that the island he hid it on was Cyprus? The codex says something along the lines of "The island was once theirs but is now ours". Sorry but that does seem like a bit of a glaring plot hole. But I could be wrong.
And AC2 heavily implied that Ezio was a descendant of Altair. Your point?

Azurefeatherfly
06-20-2012, 12:29 AM
Here is the entirety of page 30 in the Codex:


Soon I shall pass from this world. It is my time. All the hours of the day are now colored by the thoughts and fears borne of this realization. I know that the elements of my body will return to the Earth. But what of my consciousness? My identity? That is to say – what of ME? I suspect it will end. That there is no next world. Nor a return to this one. It will simply be done. Forever.
Our lives are so brief and unimportant. The cosmos cares nothing for us. For what we've done; Had we wrought evil instead of good. Had I chosen to abuse the Apple instead of seal it away. None of it would have mattered. There is no counting. No reckoning. No final judgement. There is simply silence. And darkness. Utter and absolute... And so I have begun to wonder – might there not be a way to stop – or at least delay – death's embrace? Surely the ones who came before were not so frail and feeble as we. But I have sworn to be done with the artifact. To not gaze into its core. Still: faced as I am with the prospect of my end, what harm is there in one last look...

I think that last line makes it pretty obvious in regards to the location of the Apple.

Calvarok
06-20-2012, 12:43 AM
It says ZERO about the location.

Assassin_M
06-20-2012, 12:45 AM
It says ZERO about the location.
It actually does, it implies that the Apple was in Altair`s possession to his last days..
It doesnt, however; give direct hints about its physical location..

Calvarok
06-20-2012, 12:49 AM
Ah. Well I guess it does give some clues in regards to the actual location. I was thinking about in regard to cyprus.

sk8terb0i
06-20-2012, 10:16 AM
So I was remember looney toon cartoons and you know how the good guy gets the "item" and gives it to who he thinks is a good guy but then finds out he is a bad guy. You think desmond is being played to find the POE to give it to the templars? Why would the assassin's need to find it just to "not" use the item agaisnt the templars?

Calvarok
06-20-2012, 10:44 AM
Um, yeah, thats what Lucy was supposed to do. And the assassins DO want to use it against the Templars.

LightRey
06-20-2012, 01:15 PM
You're assuming it was projecting the locations of PoE's and that it was projecting them in real time.

EDIT: I think the real question is why the apple was showing this in the first place.

AnthonyA85
06-20-2012, 02:41 PM
Well, maybe Rodrigo didn't know the apple was there on Cyprus, maybe he was just searching hoping he'd get lucky (which he did), i say this, because the description for the Mayan Ruins mission for AC3 specifically mentions Connor investigating an island that was apparently ransacked by Rodrigo Borgia (the gamersgate digital deluxe editions specifically mentions "The Spaniard") so maybe we will find out all the missing info during Ac3.

Assassin_M
06-20-2012, 02:48 PM
Well, maybe Rodrigo didn't know the apple was there on Cyprus, maybe he was just searching hoping he'd get lucky (which he did), i say this, because the description for the Mayan Ruins mission for AC3 specifically mentions Connor investigating an island that was apparently ransacked by Rodrigo Borgia (the gamersgate digital deluxe editions specifically mentions "The Spaniard") so maybe we will find out all the missing info during Ac3.
"The Spaniard" means the Spanish, It could`v been any Spaniard, not specifically Rodrigo and I highly doubt It was just luck, doesnt seem like Rodirigo`s planning..

HSCOnyxAssassin
06-20-2012, 05:49 PM
"The Spaniard" means the Spanish, It could`v been any Spaniard, not specifically Rodrigo and I highly doubt It was just luck, doesnt seem like Rodirigo`s planning..

If it were "The Spaniard" in the context of AC2 I'd be inclined to agree with Anthony, but seeing as were in Revolutionary America and it's been 300 years since Rodrigo I'm thinking more along the lines of cortez or some one of relevance closer to the time period of AC3.

AnthonyA85
06-20-2012, 06:06 PM
Ok, here's part of the synopsis for the Mayan Ruins mission:


Cozumel Island Single-Player Mission
Following the clues to what some think is Captain Kidd’s lost treasure Connor is lead to an isolated ruin on Cozumel Island. The ruins- ransacked by the Spaniard 200 years earlier- have since been reclaimed by nature....

So it looks like the ransacking took place some time during the late 15/early 16th century, i guess we'll find out during the game.

When exactly did Cortez live?

thekarlone
06-20-2012, 06:29 PM
The answer is simple: the projection of AC1 only shows the location of the POE in the exact moment Altaïr is seeing the projection. After that, some POE could have changed their locations. This is, in the moment Altaïr is seeing the projection there's no Apples is in Cyprus, so Altaïr makes this trick. But in the Ezio time, somehow another Apple is in Cyprus, so the Templars found it.

Astralcloak
06-20-2012, 10:05 PM
Ok after reading the posts so far, I think a simple outlining might be needed, and also clearly some have not completed Revelations, warning- spoilers, there is a certain confirmation.. anyway.
During Altair's time, as shown by the Codex in ACII, the First Apple (Altair's from ACI) was, for a time, sealed in an assassin 'vault', not to be confused with a THCB vault, to protect the world from it, the final Codex page indicates that Altair intended to retrieve the apple from Cyprus (diagram on the codex page). This is confirmed in Revelations during the final 'Altair sequence' through the keys, where his origional Apple is clearly placed in Masayaf, and later found (AND LEFT THERE!) by Ezio.

This shows that Ezio encountered 2 seperate apples in his life, the first in Venice via Cyprus from an undisclosed origin, but very much so not Altair's apple, the second in Masayaf at the end of revelations. Now, we can assume, given their initial knowledge in ACI, Abstergo were aware of the apple in masayaf, and they lost an apple in the Denver incident, possibly the same one? and thus sought to replace it, hence ACI, Vidic also said at the end of ACI that at least two locations shown were landmasses that didn't even exist anymore.

Think that's all the basis covered, hope it helps, sorry for spoilers

EscoBlades
06-21-2012, 01:28 AM
Just so you know, the new expansion for AC Recollections answers this question. So those of you that have the game, might want to look into this ;)

naran6142
06-21-2012, 02:31 AM
Just so you know, the new expansion for AC Recollections answers this question. So those of you that have the game, might want to look into this ;)

Recollections is for mobile devices right?

zerocooll21
06-21-2012, 02:13 PM
Just so you know, the new expansion for AC Recollections answers this question. So those of you that have the game, might want to look into this ;)

Care to PM me the answer? (only a console game guy :rolleyes:)

GLHS
06-21-2012, 02:27 PM
It answers the question? No way. I've been trying to figure out how the Templar's got the d@mn thing since AC2. I might have to read up on this.