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AB_Onedoc
06-30-2004, 09:13 PM
I know you have tried to give the jug a fighting chance but with the code the dive and zoom by which the jug lived and died will not be and I am afraid a game without a viable jug isn't worth the time for me.

It's a lot of little things, like so many limited icon games where the planes mysteriously dissappear at moderate distance. lag issues and such. I am afraid this game is more trouble than its worth more times than not. I will continue to play sporadically as I love flight sims and this game does have great eye candy when you have a good comp hosting, and no one is one with the speed hacks or that new cheat that is going around and they actually have the AA filtering on etc.

I really appreciate your efforts and I have *****ed as much as anybody but my hat is off to you and your team. This code wasn't originally written for this type of game that IL2 has become. I will still play occasionally, but the fun is gone.

every body Watch
Your
Six

Been fun and occasionally I will host a game but to deal with so many of the other issues, I won't play regulary.

AB_Onedoc

AB_Onedoc
06-30-2004, 09:13 PM
I know you have tried to give the jug a fighting chance but with the code the dive and zoom by which the jug lived and died will not be and I am afraid a game without a viable jug isn't worth the time for me.

It's a lot of little things, like so many limited icon games where the planes mysteriously dissappear at moderate distance. lag issues and such. I am afraid this game is more trouble than its worth more times than not. I will continue to play sporadically as I love flight sims and this game does have great eye candy when you have a good comp hosting, and no one is one with the speed hacks or that new cheat that is going around and they actually have the AA filtering on etc.

I really appreciate your efforts and I have *****ed as much as anybody but my hat is off to you and your team. This code wasn't originally written for this type of game that IL2 has become. I will still play occasionally, but the fun is gone.

every body Watch
Your
Six

Been fun and occasionally I will host a game but to deal with so many of the other issues, I won't play regulary.

AB_Onedoc

gates123
07-01-2004, 11:24 AM
To be honest with you I think Oleg has gotten the Jug pretty close to where it was. Which was a horrible dogfighter, average escort and decent mudmover. The pilots like Gabreski got alot of kills in it because they were great pilots not because they were flying great dogfighters. I think the Jug is overatted and always has been. It was a train killer not a pilot killer. This sim reflects that. Try a pure dogfighter like a spit, g2, or yak-3 and your odds of survivabilty will go through the roof, thats my american take.

http://www.flightjournal.com/images/index_photos/gunslinging.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

dadada1
07-01-2004, 11:56 AM
Well said gates123, if only we could always have this level of objectivity.

WWMaxGunz
07-01-2004, 01:19 PM
Flown right and kept high, it is not a bad fighter at all let alone horrible.
The difficulties of proper B'n'Z owing to the view system may give some the
idea that the P-47 is less than it was. The same does not help with the FW's
in the same way, maybe more since the FW's have cannon.


Neal

gates123
07-01-2004, 01:35 PM
The jug offline has its uses, online where pilots actually know how to maximize their crates its a duck. Only time I ever use it online it if I want to hit a factory or tank column and get out quick, other then that you'll be outflown 99% of the time and end up running because you can't even turn with a A-9. Although I've gotten alot of my teamates kills in it cuz it's great for dragging.

http://www.flightjournal.com/images/index_photos/gunslinging.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

Luftcaca
07-01-2004, 02:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AB_Onedoc:
I know you have tried to give the jug a fighting chance but with the code the dive and zoom by which the jug lived and died will not be and I am afraid a game without a viable jug isn't worth the time for me.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

so the fact that it has this many flyable planes is not enough for you?

your oh so beloved invincible Thunderbolt doesnt "own" enough for ya?

Ok I admit the "dive model" is far from being flawless but why dont YOU make a sim that will outbest Il2/FB/AEP? Let me guess, in your sim, the Thunderbolt would turn like a Zero, Climb as high as the Ta152, and reach the same speed than the 262?

ha ha ha

if you dont like it, dont play but dont make a fuzz about it

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

StellarRat
07-01-2004, 05:31 PM
It's not a "duck" if you use it right. I use it almost exclusively online and I get plenty of kills and good scores.

Mad_Moses
07-01-2004, 06:09 PM
IMO the P-47 is modeled quite well.

This plane was considered at the time to be the best fighter plane and probably had the biggest impact on the Western front. The P-51D really came too late to have an impact on the tide of battle.

Flying the "Jug" in a war situation, it's dominate. It out-performed all German fighter planes at altitude it encountered, making it a great escort plane. It could dive faster, had massive firepower and could take a huge amount of punishment. With the exception of the current .50 modeling it is modeled exceptionally well.

It's a great plane, if you think you are going to kick butt on a dogfight server where everyone is doing loop-d-loops on the deck you are mistaken. In a full real war situation were you are escorting heavy bombers at 10,000 meters or doing high speed ground attack, its ideal just like it was in real life.

Regards,
Mad Moses

heywooood
07-01-2004, 06:56 PM
Well - I'll take this opportunity to REALLY say thanks to Oleg. Thank you Oleg for having the passion for flying and for historical combat aviation to devote soo many hours of your time - much more than many of us could begin to realize I am sure. Thank you for introducing the rest of the warbird enthusiast world to the Russian aircraft and people of the Great Patriotic War. Thank you for having the patience to come to these forums and put up with the people who are much less knowledgeable about the real true aspects of airial combat in general or the various flight dynamics of so many aircraft and armaments as you have researched - coded - and provided.

I also want to say thankyou to all of the people in the community from all the participating Nations for their good nature and spirit of friendship that is usually expressed.

Thats all - Thanks Oleg Maddox and all who are involved in bringing us this fantastic product.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/3tbm_avenger.jpg
Goin'fishin'

heywooood
07-01-2004, 06:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AB_Onedoc:
I know you have tried to give the jug a fighting chance but with the code the dive and zoom by which the jug lived and died will not be and I am afraid a game without a viable jug isn't worth the time for me.

It's a lot of little things, like so many limited icon games where the planes mysteriously dissappear at moderate distance. lag issues and such. I am afraid this game is more trouble than its worth more times than not. I will continue to play sporadically as I love flight sims and this game does have great eye candy when you have a good comp hosting, and no one is one with the speed hacks or that new cheat that is going around and they actually have the AA filtering on etc.

I really appreciate your efforts and I have *****ed as much as anybody but my hat is off to you and your team. This code wasn't originally written for this type of game that IL2 has become. I will still play occasionally, but the fun is gone.

every body Watch
Your
Six

Been fun and occasionally I will host a game but to deal with so many of the other issues, I won't play regulary.

AB_Onedoc<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To label this thread as a thank-you and then proceed to slam the product and the developer is not polite

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/3tbm_avenger.jpg
Goin'fishin'

VMF513_Sandman
07-01-2004, 08:11 PM
compared to when fb was 1st released, the jug has been improved with roll and climb rate. the d-27 i think is slightly fubar; the jug would outdive any american plane, including the lightning. current d-27 seems to break up around 8-900 on the speedbar. it wouldnt outturn or outrun the lightning, but would outdive it. so i think the jug's diving capabilities need some improvement.
it was a high altitude fighter....altitude over 10,000' and up. jug's wouldnt mix it up low and slow like their doing online. that would be sure suicide.
there have been reports that opening up with all 8 guns would actually slow the plane down with the massive 50 cal recoil..and a plane being 10 tons, that would take a hell of alot of recoil to do that.

if they'd: improve the zoom climb from a b/z run, accurately modeled 50 cal strength, and very slight (maybe 5%) added roll/turn rate, the jug would be dead on. u would still need to be at the right speed to get that roll/turn rate. it wasnt a dogfighter at the deck..it was designed as a power fighter with throwing its weight around at high altitude. to try to take it to the deck and mix it up, fo-git it....wouldnt be able to be done.

heywooood
07-01-2004, 08:29 PM
you are diving too far and you are shooting from too far away - the enemy a/c MUST fill the windscreen and then a short burst with guns harmonized at 100 - 150m remember these increments are meters not feet in FB. 100 meters is 300'

Most American pilots harmonized at 150-250 feet. TRY IT. it works scary good. muhahahah

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/3tbm_avenger.jpg
Goin'fishin'

Eagle_361st
07-01-2004, 11:57 PM
I've been flying the Jug since 1.0 and Janes and EAW before that. You don't want to meet me in a Jug, be sure. If you fly it properly it is without a doubt one of the deadliest fighters in the sim. It's all in flying the plane properly and accurately, low level yank and bank dogfights are NOT historically accurate. Speed is life, not how much better a turn rate you have.

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1079.jpg

crazyivan1970
07-02-2004, 12:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eagle_361st:
I've been flying the Jug since 1.0 and Janes and EAW before that. You don't want to meet me in a Jug, be sure. If you fly it properly it is without a doubt one of the deadliest fighters in the sim. It's all in flying the plane properly and accurately, low level yank and bank dogfights are NOT historically accurate. Speed is life, not how much better a turn rate you have.

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don`t want to meet me in K4 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

dadada1
07-02-2004, 03:44 AM
In this sim we have the unique opportunity of flying so many different AC and being able to make direct comparisons almost within seconds. A luxury not afforded to WW2 pilots, so no wonder we are aware of each AC's strengths and weaknesses and fly accordingly. If we make a mistake it's not fatal, we can only learn from the experience unlike those in WW2. We kind of have the benefit of hindsight which as we all know is a wonderful thing.

Luftcaca
07-02-2004, 12:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eagle_361st:
I've been flying the Jug since 1.0 and Janes and EAW before that. You don't want to meet me in a Jug, be sure. If you fly it properly it is without a doubt one of the deadliest fighters in the sim. It's all in flying the plane properly and accurately, low level yank and bank dogfights are NOT historically accurate. Speed is life, not how much better a turn rate you have.

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don`t want to meet me in K4 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you DONT wanna meet me in a P-11!

or not...or yes

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

gates123
07-02-2004, 01:04 PM
OK! I'm open minded, I'll put more time in a jug online and see if I can make her work http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://www.flightjournal.com/images/index_photos/gunslinging.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

NegativeGee
07-02-2004, 01:13 PM
I second what heywooood said in his first reply http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Keep up the magic Oleg & hard working guys at MAddox Games!

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - G√ľnther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

Eagle_361st
07-02-2004, 05:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Luftcaca:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eagle_361st:
I've been flying the Jug since 1.0 and Janes and EAW before that. You don't want to meet me in a Jug, be sure. If you fly it properly it is without a doubt one of the deadliest fighters in the sim. It's all in flying the plane properly and accurately, low level yank and bank dogfights are NOT historically accurate. Speed is life, not how much better a turn rate you have.

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don`t want to meet me in K4 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you DONT wanna meet me in a P-11!

or not...or yes

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ivan,
Bring that glass jawed K-4 on up to 8k and play. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Luftcaca,

P-11? Isn't he a rapper? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1079.jpg

MEGILE
07-02-2004, 05:24 PM
Ill face you in my I-16 at 8,000M no probs, bring it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://www.5thairforce.com/e107_files/public/p51lightj.jpg

Countdown to 1337 post count = P minus 174

Luftcaca
07-02-2004, 05:25 PM
whatever floats your boat mate! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

.o0(at first I saw RAPER)

*shivers*

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

Luftcaca
07-02-2004, 05:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MEGILE:
Ill face you in my I-16 at 8,000M no probs, bring it! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

grrrr just wait for the Fi 156 to be flyable!
I'll dive from 15 km to 8000m and I'll fire with all my 8 Mk103's gunpods!!!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

VonHeide
07-02-2004, 08:12 PM
YA!!! JUST WAIT TILL THEY MODEL SINDWINDER MISSLES AND ILL SWOOP IN WITH MY MODIFIED DORA AND GUT YOU LIKE A FISH!!


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

Dora is the Love
G-10 is the Way

wayno7777
07-02-2004, 08:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
Well - I'll take this opportunity to REALLY say thanks to Oleg. Thank you Oleg for having the passion for flying and for historical combat aviation to devote soo many hours of your time - much more than many of us could begin to realize I am sure. Thank you for introducing the rest of the warbird enthusiast world to the Russian aircraft and people of the Great Patriotic War. Thank you for having the patience to come to these forums and put up with the people who are much less knowledgeable about the real true aspects of airial combat in general or the various flight dynamics of so many aircraft and armaments as you have researched - coded - and provided.

I also want to say thankyou to all of the people in the community from all the participating Nations for their good nature and spirit of friendship that is usually expressed.

Thats all - Thanks Oleg Maddox and all who are involved in bringing us this fantastic product.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/3tbm_avenger.jpg
Goin'fishin'



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BUMP!!! Heywood. GO Oleg & Co.!

Btw, which model Jug got the big paddle-bladed props? Johnson said with them his Jug was an all together different animal. Even out-climbing a Spit IX.

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

heywooood
07-02-2004, 08:49 PM
thanks Wayno - lest we forget who and what brought us all together in the first place..thanks, Oleg and Co.

"we're man enough to take a few insults...aren't we?"

Lets not get so carried away that we pi$$ off the host and spoil the party.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

Eagle_361st
07-02-2004, 09:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wayno7777:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
Well - I'll take this opportunity to REALLY say thanks to Oleg. Thank you Oleg for having the passion for flying and for historical combat aviation to devote soo many hours of your time - much more than many of us could begin to realize I am sure. Thank you for introducing the rest of the warbird enthusiast world to the Russian aircraft and people of the Great Patriotic War. Thank you for having the patience to come to these forums and put up with the people who are much less knowledgeable about the real true aspects of airial combat in general or the various flight dynamics of so many aircraft and armaments as you have researched - coded - and provided.

I also want to say thankyou to all of the people in the community from all the participating Nations for their good nature and spirit of friendship that is usually expressed.

Thats all - Thanks Oleg Maddox and all who are involved in bringing us this fantastic product.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/3tbm_avenger.jpg
Goin'fishin'



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BUMP!!! Heywood. GO Oleg & Co.!

Btw, which model Jug got the big paddle-bladed props? Johnson said with them his Jug was an all together different animal. Even out-climbing a Spit IX.

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Dux_Wreck.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The P-47D-22 and above came from the factory with the paddle blades. Everything else already in the field were retro-fitted.

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1079.jpg

Riceball88
07-04-2004, 02:25 PM
just wait till you guys get in a turn & burn with me in a tb-3 at sea level... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Luftcaca
07-04-2004, 02:51 PM
ah!
thats so NOTHING!

Just wait til I finish my ultra secret Uber rocket proppeled triplane glider!!!

codename: the plane that existed

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst