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View Full Version : MAKE ALL MAPS AVAILABLE OFFLINE IN QMB



ddsflyer
04-09-2004, 11:44 AM
I posted this on Oleg's Ready Room but I want to see how many of you want to see all maps available in the QMB. I don't see any reason technically why this cannot happen. Maybe if enough offline players agree, the powers that be will see the light.

Baron pilots do it with class!

ddsflyer
04-09-2004, 11:44 AM
I posted this on Oleg's Ready Room but I want to see how many of you want to see all maps available in the QMB. I don't see any reason technically why this cannot happen. Maybe if enough offline players agree, the powers that be will see the light.

Baron pilots do it with class!

Frenzy_nok
04-09-2004, 11:55 AM
I agree !!!

I often use QMB just for a quick flight.
Would be great if more/all maps would be available. Always wondered why they onley bothered to put in so few maps.

BlitzPig_Ritter
04-09-2004, 12:05 PM
Uberdemon's QMB is the program for you. It combines all the best features of the in game FMB, and QMB.

You can get it on his website at www.uberdemon.com (http://www.uberdemon.com)

He is working on an update for AEP right now.

______________________________
Formerly Known as: Die_Ritterkreuz
http://img41.photobucket.com/albums/v126/Ritterkreuz/Sig.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=Ritterkreuz&ts=1067024271&comefrom=credits)
Now with 40+ skins and counting!

ddsflyer
04-09-2004, 12:25 PM
I'm waiting for UberDemon to make his program compatable with Aces. I even sent him a donation. Right now however, it is not. I still think there is no reason that all the maps could not be available for QMB.

Baron pilots do it with class!

steve_v
04-09-2004, 12:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ddsflyer:
I don't see any reason technically why this cannot happen.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Maybe for someone more easy to write something than to make something?"
- Oleg Maddox

04-09-2004, 12:43 PM
Use the FMB!

"They went to the circus but they did not see the elephant"

BM357_TinMan
04-09-2004, 01:30 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cosmokart:
Use the FMB!
QUOTE]

I don't know about anyone else, but these types of responses just aggravate the crap out of me.

They offer nothing to the disscussion and only server to try to belittle the post of the thread maker.

If you like using the FMB, then by all means, use the FMB, but maybe the guy that started the thread would rather take advantage of the ease of QMB (which is why it is there) and was just wondering why/if he couldn't put the other maps in.

unless you have something to add to the discussion, keep your comments to yourself

BM357_TinMan
xo BM357 VFG
www.bm357.com (http://www.bm357.com)

ddsflyer
04-09-2004, 04:21 PM
I find the FMB both tedious and too time consuming in order to create a quick scenario. That is why I like the QMB and that is why I use it. Obviously if I wanted to use the FMB I would. I only wonder why the QMB was included with such a limited number of maps, and after all, how difficult could it be to make the other maps available? If I had wanted criticism from someone I would have asked for it.

Baron pilots do it with class!

peterm1
04-09-2004, 04:44 PM
I agree with ddsflyer. FMB is a pain to use and whilst I do use it some times, there are many occasions when I just want a "quicky" Besides my system is taxed by many premade missions which have too many plans etc in game and I am forced to use either QMB or FMB because of performance limits.
My vote goes to ddsflyer.

Bomber_Dude
04-09-2004, 05:03 PM
Looks like Oz should have given the Tinman a nerve pill http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://www.computech-online.net/~garyb/pix/sig01.jpg

Chuck_Older
04-09-2004, 05:42 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cosmokart:
Use the FMB!
QUOTE]

I don't know about anyone else, but these types of responses just aggravate the crap out of me.

They offer nothing to the disscussion and only server to try to belittle the post of the thread maker.

If you like using the FMB, then by all means, use the FMB, but maybe the guy that started the thread would rather take advantage of the ease of QMB (which is why it is there) and was just wondering why/if he couldn't put the other maps in.

unless you have something to add to the discussion, keep your comments to yourself

BM357_TinMan
xo BM357 VFG
___________________________________________

OK, here is what I cannot understand:

Right, you would like to have all maps in QMB. that sounds great, I support that. Technical issues make that difficult. But I can't imagine it's overwhelming- however I benefit from a distinct lack of knowledge in the issue. Suffice to say, it's not happening soon. That's the reality of it, whether you or I agree with it or not. I hope you've stuck with me so far.

But-
I read all these threads about FMB, and I don't get one thing: All of them boil down to "I just want a quick Dogfight with a different map" and "FMB is too complex (or takes too long)" If you just want a quick dogfight, what do you care about the map? And if FMB takes so long or is so complex, have you really given it a try? Most admit they have not, or say they can't figure it out (usually why it takes so long http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

These are things on my mind when I read these threads. If all you want is a QMB type mission, it is extremely easy (and fast) to do this in FMB. I am not exagerrating when I say that a QMB type mission can be made in FMB in almost the same time as setting up a QMB mission. It takes about 2 minutes to make a basic 4 on 4 or 8 on 8 dogfight in QMB. Takes about 3 in FMB, 4 if you count the load times. Four minutes is not a long time. I don't have a terrible amount of sympathy if someone thinks 4 minutes is too out of line to use a tool that was supplied with FB, to completely tailor a dogfight exactly the way they want it. I know you'll disagree, but hear me out.

QMB exists for a quick mission, FMB allows expansion of that so you can tailor everything. The rationale must have been, "If all you care about is a quick fight, here is QMB: these are the maps that give plenty of generic terrain choices and is easiest on the CPU. If you want the whole enchilada (I can just imagine Oleg saying that), here is FMB, go nuts."

I'm not saying: Go Learn FMB you N00b

I am saying that if you or anyone else doesn't think that FMB is damn near as quick to set up a QMB type mission in as QMB itself, all you need to do is ask how to do it. I can fully understand where you are coming from, and I can fully understand the folks who suggest that this question is one that wants, basically, to have maximum flexiblity with minimum effort, and how come you just don't DO it?

I can understand both. I can because although I understand how FMB works fairly well (enough to make complex missions work- most of the time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ), I also know that personally, I shied away from FMB for a long time because I had no idea how to really use it (as a note, I really enjoy this type of tool. I spend more time making Operation:Flashpoint missions than actually playing them. I almost passed out when my hard drive crashed last year and I lost ALL my missions). It is quite poorly documented in my opinion, and this makes players assume it is hard to use, slow, and cumbersome. It can be, but if all you want is a QMB type mission over Lake Balaton with 20 different aircraft, if I don't put custom skins on, I can give you that in 5 minutes, if you don't want a breifing.

Now Operation:Flashpoint, on the other hand...oh, my, you need to learn a programming language of sorts just to get a soldier to sit down. I like that stuff, but holy crow is THAT tedious.
Fire:inflame fire1 this effect standsit russian2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif


~edit: couldn't see end of quoted post

*****************************
Punk Rockers in the UK, they won't notice anyway. They're all too busy fighting for a good place under the lighting~ Clash

[This message was edited by Chuck_Older on Fri April 09 2004 at 04:58 PM.]

LEXX_Luthor
04-09-2004, 05:51 PM
Use the FMB!

hobnail
04-09-2004, 05:51 PM
If all you want is a quick dogfight, why are different maps important?

One is winter, one is summer, one is coastal with ships and one is faux pacific with ships. Discern a pattern there?

Chuck_Older
04-09-2004, 06:09 PM
Has it occured to anyone that the map choices in QMB are also ones with few objects? Good for low end machines...


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif
to the mod who deleted my double post-
thanks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

*****************************
Punk Rockers in the UK, they won't notice anyway. They're all too busy fighting for a good place under the lighting~ Clash

LEXX_Luthor
04-09-2004, 07:37 PM
Crimea map? Its very large, and has many cities. But it does have interesting coastline.

btw...for pure air-air combat, it should be easy to let QMB be able to just "switch" maps from under the aircraft waypoints--like I do with FMB misstion text files with no surface units and no planes having either takeoff or landing waypoints. But this rules out any surface units in a Quick Mission with these maps. But still, it can be done--all QMB aircraft air start anyway.

You see, even the most militant radical FMB cult Fudamentalist can take the side of the QMB set. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DuxCorvan
04-09-2004, 08:31 PM
They should at least put the one with mountains -for people who want to be forced to stay high- and the Pacific one -because of the immersion if you're in a Zero or a Hayate...

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

Bearcat99
04-09-2004, 08:36 PM
From what I remember Oleg posting when I asked this back before FB.... The QMB is not as simple as it seems. If it were we would have all the maps. The way the QMB works is for each map every possible scenario you can program has been pre-programmed in. That means every possible plane combo, altitude, target etc. How many planes are there in this sim? Ohhhhhhhhhhh not such an easy task after all. For you its a key stroke to add AAA but someone had to place that AAA. When you see an armored column moving someone had to program that whole thing. When you select Airbase as a target guess what same thing. Waypoints that you see in a QM? Ditto. This is why adding more maps to the QMB is so tough. This is also why the UQMG is such a masterpiece. Take into consideration that it was done out of love for the sim and it is almost criminal not to use it. I was intimidated by the FMB for over a year. When I found out how easy it was to use I was floored. Like Chuck said... you can program a QM style mission using the FMB with even more detail in a few minutes. FYI..the map situation in the QMB? It isnt changing till BoB... right now the UQMG is the ticket and a very good one indeed. Granted 1C could have done that...but the amount of work would have been astronomical, and with other projects in the works and the FMB in the sim already ..not really worth it. Thats just my opinion. I have learned a long time ago that the best way to really enjoy this sim is to just take it as it is, warts and all and have fun with it. Improvements come... some wishes will never be granted..but the sim is still an outrageous amount of fun for a very small investment. Even FB 1.0 with it's exploding P-40s and abysmall P-47 roll rate was a blast compared to anything else I have flown... but thats just me. Suck it up guys...take the time to learn the FMB...use the UQMG. That is your answer.

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DuxCorvan
04-09-2004, 08:46 PM
To make a briefing of what Bearcat has said:

The Maddox guys don't include more maps because they'd have to repeat the programming tasks they did with every one of three that are there, and are too lazy and/or too busy to do it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Use Uberdemon's QMB. He's not so lazy/busy to do the same with ALL maps without so many cries of pain... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

Chuck_Older
04-09-2004, 09:07 PM
That's a very simplistic assesment of what Bearcat said, don't you think, Dux?

Have you considered all the permutations involved in pre-programming all encounters for just one map? You multiply every plane by every loadout by every flight by every number in the flight by every enemy flight by every plane in each flight by every loadout for every enemy plane...then for each encounter type, advantage/disadavantage/no advantage, for each map.

*****************************
Punk Rockers in the UK, they won't notice anyway. They're all too busy fighting for a good place under the lighting~ Clash

Bearcat99
04-09-2004, 10:04 PM
Exactly... Bottom line.. use the UQMG.. it actually has some fetures that he QMB doesnt have. Like spawning AI... and clones..

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
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LEXX_Luthor
04-09-2004, 10:31 PM
LOL the quick Ace dogfighter wants somebody else to program but the Ace can't use a mouse haha

Again, for *pure* air-air combat QMB can probably be made to just switch maps underneath the default standard QMB waypoints, but no surface units would stand for this, tanks may end up in a lake (the QMB simmers don't know about map switching).

04-10-2004, 01:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_TinMan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cosmokart:
Use the FMB!
QUOTE]

I don't know about anyone else, but these types of responses just aggravate the crap out of me.

They offer nothing to the disscussion and only server to try to belittle the post of the thread maker.

If you like using the FMB, then by all means, use the FMB, but maybe the guy that started the thread would rather take advantage of the ease of QMB (which is why it is there) and was just wondering why/if he couldn't put the other maps in.

unless you have something to add to the discussion, keep your comments to yourself

BM357_TinMan
xo BM357 VFG
http://www.bm357.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeeze, you sure got up on the wrong side of the bed today. Why all the animosity?

The FMB is there if you want to use it. Nobody's forcing you to use FMB. Nobody is calling you dumb if you haven't figured out the FMB. Sheesh!

My suggestion to use the FMB was very constructive. If you have a problem with that, it's YOUR DAMN PROBLEM.

DuxCorvan
04-10-2004, 05:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
That's a very simplistic assesment of what Bearcat said, don't you think, Dux?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. And I can make it even simpler: they don't do it because it's too much work.

Is it false? And you say more or less the same simple truth, don't you think, Chuck?

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

Chuck_Older
04-10-2004, 07:07 AM
No, not really. I didn't say it was too hard, I simply said it's more complex than just porting to a map.

I also said that the maps in QMB are generic types that give a broad range of terrain types with few objects on them, and a reason why they were good QMB maps: low object count for better performance on low end machines.

*****************************
Get your car outta that gear ~ Clash

DuxCorvan
04-10-2004, 07:30 AM
OK. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif But, it would be nice, anyway...

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

LEXX_Luthor
04-10-2004, 08:58 AM
Agreed, it would be nice to have map switching for pure air-air combat quick missions, but only because I think QMB can be easily made to do this.

UberDemon
04-10-2004, 09:23 AM
Actually I can shed some light into the QMB process, because I actually built a set of templates for Oleg. Unfortunately the Small Finland Gulf set I made did not get included for one reason or another by Oleg's team. No matter, I may include those templates in one of the UQMG upgrades in the future.

The QMB templates are based in a single mission. Each mission has to be built from scratch, and tested for overall performance. There are several criteria for the mission, and I know what they are, but I will not discuss that here because it would take way too long.

There are 4 types of mission per team. Each mission is different. So to build a full template for QMB means designing 8 fully operational missions for each map. And off course testing them. (So each team gets a Air Combat, one Attack to Ground Units, one Attack to Bridges, and one Attack to Airfield mission)

All objects in the mission are included, except for AAA batteries (and I mean only the AAA guns), which are optional. Basically every mission will be the same because you will have the same objects in the ground, if there are any included in the mission.

So there is no programming per se for the mission. It is solely a built mission which is included within the FB files.

Once the missions are deemed useful then they have to import the 8 missions into the FB files, and have to do some programming for the FB GUI to include the map as a choice in the QMB menu.

The biggest part of the work is building the missions.

If you are not working on the missions full-time, and you are a guy like me, who has to use weekends and nights to work on this hobby... then you are probably talking a week worth of work just to build the missions. If everything goes perfectly...

So to enable all maps, that is 31 maps minus the 4 included, that is 27... That is roughly 27 weeks for one person to work on it on spare time. I'd say that a full set of missions could be built in 2-days if the person works full-time. You are still talking one and a half months worth of work just on that...

It is pretty overwhelming.

Now, UQMG, the program I wrote is much more complex than the QMB. It took me roughly 3 years to achieve what it is now. UQMG is different from QMB because QMB is a mission generator, based on a already built mission. UQMG is a misison builder, meaning it actually builds missions based on several data sets.

IN anyway, I hope this adds to this discussion.

Also, please note I am working on an upgrade for UQMG that will include AEP.

Demon/UberDemon
www.uberdemon.com (http://www.uberdemon.com)

Chuck_Older
04-10-2004, 10:25 AM
That will make lots of folks happy

*****************************
Get your car outta that gear ~ Clash

Tully__
04-10-2004, 12:00 PM
BM357_TinMan, cosmokart, do I need to throw a bucket of water over you guys? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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lil_labbit
04-10-2004, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ddsflyer:
I posted this on Oleg's Ready Room but I want to see how many of you want to see all maps available in the QMB. I don't see any reason technically why this cannot happen. Maybe if enough offline players agree, the powers that be will see the light.

Baron pilots do it with class!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YEAH now ya bumped em - eeeh can I have middle-earth map ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
Oleg only has a licence for HIMSELF - that's why we got the extra maps in V1.22 - so BOE could hit the shelves Legally (big bonus for us!) - Thanx Luthier & Co!

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Night is better than Day

lil_labbit
04-10-2004, 12:28 PM
oooo http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif
now I bumped it...

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day

BM357_TinMan
04-12-2004, 09:57 AM
CosmoKart,

If in fact you were trying to be helpful and not a smart ***, I apologize.

BM357_TinMan
xo BM357 VFG
www.bm357.com (http://www.bm357.com)