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Jexx21
03-18-2012, 01:51 AM
Now, I know you might be thinking: why would an Assassin believe in any faith? It goes against their code, what they fight for.

I believe that the Assassins are against religion, not faith. Religion as in the leaders of a faith (for example, the Pope), and the way it can corrupt and control people. But that doesn't mean that an Assassin can't follow the scriptures of a faith, or that they can't use these scriptures to guide them on their path as an Assassin.

For an example, my faith (Christianity), says that God gave us free will. Assassin's fight for free will. In my opinion, an actual Christian would fight (in their own way, doesn't have to be violent) to keep free will. Yes, they would try to teach others the ways of the Lord taught in the Bible, but they wouldn't (or shouldn't) condemn anyone for choosing that they choose.

These thoughts were struck into me by this music video for Assassin's Creed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRBxEfQBiZY

That song is sung and written by a Christian band. That song is supposed to come from the perspective of God, whispering to his 'children' (us). How would things like this guide an Assassin in their work?

Would it inspire them to continue in what they're doing? Would they think that they are doing the opposite of what their faith calls them to really do, but they're doing it anyway for the good of all?

I'm not sure. The discussion of faith is relatively untouched in this series.

Alex, if you're reading this, and if you'll have any hand in future Assassin's Creed games, I would love to see faith be addressed. Doesn't even have to be a particular faith. Could be Islam, Buddhism, even Paganism. I just want to see how Assassins are guided by their faith (or lack of one).

Some insightful thoughts:


Free will doesn't mean being devoid of common sense. Also, The Bible is in 2 parts, an Old and New Testament. The Old Testament Commandments were strict laws of the time. The New Testament is more of a guide on how to live a life in the eyes of God. Not all of the Bible has to be taken literally. Just as a guide. Christians should be paying more attention to the New Testament anyway, at least, i do.

This applies to the Assassins as well. The very fact that they acknowledge the flaws in their nature as humans, and strive to better themselves and overcome (or minimise) those flawed traits is what sets them apart from the Templars. That doesn't mean they still can't use their brains when the situation calls for it, as many Master Assassins have shown already. Adhering so strictly to an idea, belief or Creed can rapidly lead to your downfall.

That is all.


The very nature of the Assassin order goes against their code, so I'd say them having any (religious) faith is not at all out of the question, especially since I don't think (religious) faith is against their code. Their code is against blind faith.

It is already mentioned in the AC games.
This is for example Altairs vision on religions and faith:

"I have studied the ancient pagan faiths that came before this more recent obsession with a single, divine creator. They seem to have focused more on the fundamental forces at play in the world around us and less on arbitrary moral rules...
The sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. The tides ebb and flow. Grass grows, withers, dies, and then in time, emerges from the ground once more. The air turns warm then cools and back again. Some hidden energy keeps us fitted to the ground and pulls us back when we attempt to leave it.
Each of these movements was represented before by a god or goddess. Each force given face, but recognized as something distinct and powerful. Which is not to say there were not connections between these forces – a pantheon of individual spirits – of rules. Invisible hands guiding the progress of the world around us.
And so here there was an attempt to categorize, study, explain, and understand the way things work – even if it was flawed. But no more. Now we are asked to succumb to a far more simplified explanation. How naive to believe there might be a single answer to every question. Every mystery. That there exists a lone divine light which rules over all. They say it is a light that brings truth and love. I say it is a light that blinds us – and forces us to stumble about in ignorance.
I long for the day when men turn away from invisible monsters and once more embrace a more rational view of the world. But these new religions are so convenient – and promise such terrible punishment should one reject them – I worry that fear shall keep us stuck to what is surely the greatest lie ever told."

God and science doesn't have to be separate. In fact, I say that they are one and the same.

Even the ancient Greek philosophers who believed in the Pagan gods, moved away from their gods as the explanation for everything, and attempted to came up with logical reasons for why things happen. Take Poseidon, the god of the oceans, horses, and earthquakes. Some ancient Greek scientists came up with the explanation that the land floats upon the seas, and our earthquakes are when particularly vicious waves slam against the bottom of this floating land mass.

Altair himself may be an athiest, but the Assassins are not all athiests. While I believe that God is practically the answer to most questions we have about the world, that's more of a general answer. The world itself is very very complex, and everything happens because it makes sense, and because certain things do certain things. This is science. But I don't see why science has to be separate from faith.

Also, keep in mind... Altair lived in a time where wars were started because of religion, and where people fought solely in the name of their God. This was religious corruption, and blindly following the orders of their leaders. Not to mention the Pope supported this venture, and back then, anything the Pope did was golden.

Religion is what's bad, religion is what corrupts. Religion has human leaders with their own personal goals.

Faith doesn't. Faith is different from religion, because faith is personal. Religion is practically a corporation.


But no, this issue is NOT touched on in the game, as if Altair was an atheist, he didn't have a faith. So we do not know how faith guides an Assassin, as one has to have one first to be guided by it.

If the book Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood is correct, Ezio was a Christian. But of course, there isn't any proof for this in the games, and the issue is relatively untouched.

JumpInTheFire13
03-18-2012, 07:13 AM
Well most religions don't really agree with killing another person, so I think that's where an Assassin would find a dilemma. However, you also said "in their own way, doesn't have to be violent," so there could be religious Assassins. Personally I believe that each person should be free to interpret religion in their own way, and not listen to the church, pope, ect. (and the equivalents in religions other than Christianity.) And, like you said, Assassins are all about free will.

Kit572
03-18-2012, 07:20 AM
I dont want to sound offensive or anything and i do not mean to but...

I know they say god gave us free will, but if thats true, why does it seem like christians are trying to take that away?



Living pure lives just to please him, taking everything in the ten commandments litterally... etc.

Sorry for going off topic but i was just wondering.

JumpInTheFire13
03-18-2012, 07:36 AM
I dont want to sound offensive or anything and i do not mean to but...

I know they say god gave us free will, but if thats true, why does it seem like christians are trying to take that away?



Living pure lives just to please him, taking everything in the ten commandments litterally... etc.

Sorry for going off topic but i was just wondering.

I wouldn't consider myself to be Christian. I used to be, since I go to a Catholic school and whatnot, but this is one of the reasons why I'm losing my faith.

frogger504
03-18-2012, 07:55 AM
Faith doesn't necessarily mean Religion or being religious.

Faith itself is only relevant to religion, but it isn't related to it.

EscoBlades
03-18-2012, 12:52 PM
Living pure lives just to please him, taking everything in the ten commandments litterally... etc.

Sorry for going off topic but i was just wondering.

Free will doesn't mean being devoid of common sense. Also, The Bible is in 2 parts, an Old and New Testament. The Old Testament Commandments were strict laws of the time. The New Testament is more of a guide on how to live a life in the eyes of God. Not all of the Bible has to be taken literally. Just as a guide. Christians should be paying more attention to the New Testament anyway, at least, i do.

This applies to the Assassins as well. The very fact that they acknowledge the flaws in their nature as humans, and strive to better themselves and overcome (or minimise) those flawed traits is what sets them apart from the Templars. That doesn't mean they still can't use their brains when the situation calls for it, as many Master Assassins have shown already. Adhering so strictly to an idea, belief or Creed can rapidly lead to your downfall.

That is all.

DeeNuke
03-18-2012, 01:08 PM
Is a bit... don't know... maybe "too much" to talk about religion on a game that is a "work of fiction". :) Especially when the "historical facts" are totally different in reality regarding the two factions presented in the game. :) Oh well...

sakes270
03-18-2012, 01:30 PM
Christians should be paying more attention to the New Testament anyway,
http://www.filii.info/g.gif

D.I.D.
03-18-2012, 03:01 PM
Free will doesn't mean being devoid of common sense. Also, The Bible is in 2 parts, an Old and New Testament. The Old Testament Commandments were strict laws of the time. The New Testament is more of a guide on how to live a life in the eyes of God. Not all of the Bible has to be taken literally. Just as a guide. Christians should be paying more attention to the New Testament anyway, at least, i do.

This applies to the Assassins as well. The very fact that they acknowledge the flaws in their nature as humans, and strive to better themselves and overcome (or minimise) those flawed traits is what sets them apart from the Templars. That doesn't mean they still can't use their brains when the situation calls for it, as many Master Assassins have shown already. Adhering so strictly to an idea, belief or Creed can rapidly lead to your downfall.

That is all.

Speaking of which, I hope this gets in there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

LightRey
03-18-2012, 06:41 PM
The very nature of the Assassin order goes against their code, so I'd say them having any (religious) faith is not at all out of the question, especially since I don't think (religious) faith is against their code. Their code is against blind faith.

naran6142
03-18-2012, 07:13 PM
The very nature of the Assassin order goes against their code, so I'd say them having any (religious) faith is not at all out of the question, especially since I don't think (religious) faith is against their code. Their code is against blind faith.

this...

The assassins arent against faith or religion, they are against the people that use it to control and supress

JumpInTheFire13
03-18-2012, 07:30 PM
this...

The assassins arent against faith or religion, they are against the people that use it to control and supress
And those that follow blindly without questioning why they do so.

Jexx21
03-18-2012, 07:34 PM
This talk is all fine and dandy, but I covered most of that in the OP.

My discussion is specifically about how an Assassin's faith would guide him or her.z

Edited the OP to include good points.

LightRey
03-18-2012, 07:54 PM
And those that follow blindly without questioning why they do so.
Yes, but they do not attack those. They want them to find the right way on their own, through free will.

Epsilonyx
03-19-2012, 09:23 AM
God and the Problem of Evil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zplGwAbyvbM I love this. I'm going to leave it at that and refrain from starting a rant about atheism.

De Filosoof
03-19-2012, 01:50 PM
It is already mentioned in the AC games.
This is for example Altairs vision on religions and faith:

"I have studied the ancient pagan faiths that came before this more recent obsession with a single, divine creator. They seem to have focused more on the fundamental forces at play in the world around us and less on arbitrary moral rules...
The sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. The tides ebb and flow. Grass grows, withers, dies, and then in time, emerges from the ground once more. The air turns warm then cools and back again. Some hidden energy keeps us fitted to the ground and pulls us back when we attempt to leave it.
Each of these movements was represented before by a god or goddess. Each force given face, but recognized as something distinct and powerful. Which is not to say there were not connections between these forces – a pantheon of individual spirits – of rules. Invisible hands guiding the progress of the world around us.
And so here there was an attempt to categorize, study, explain, and understand the way things work – even if it was flawed. But no more. Now we are asked to succumb to a far more simplified explanation. How naive to believe there might be a single answer to every question. Every mystery. That there exists a lone divine light which rules over all. They say it is a light that brings truth and love. I say it is a light that blinds us – and forces us to stumble about in ignorance.
I long for the day when men turn away from invisible monsters and once more embrace a more rational view of the world. But these new religions are so convenient – and promise such terrible punishment should one reject them – I worry that fear shall keep us stuck to what is surely the greatest lie ever told."

De Filosoof
03-19-2012, 02:00 PM
God and the Problem of Evil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zplGwAbyvbM I love this. I'm going to leave it at that and refrain from starting a rant about atheism.

Nice one.
It's a paradox for them that's why they can't answer it.
This is when the phrase "God works in mysterious ways" or " The devil did it" often comes to mind.

De Filosoof
03-19-2012, 02:22 PM
This applies to the Assassins as well. The very fact that they acknowledge the flaws in their nature as humans, and strive to better themselves and overcome (or minimise) those flawed traits is what sets them apart from the Templars. That doesn't mean they still can't use their brains when the situation calls for it, as many Master Assassins have shown already. Adhering so strictly to an idea, belief or Creed can rapidly lead to your downfall.

That is all.

Human nature isn't flawed but human behaviour is:).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHQKJIQIjTE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHQKJIQIjTE)

Here's a nice video about human behaviour.

GeneralTrumbo
03-19-2012, 02:43 PM
I wouldn't consider myself to be Christian. I used to be, since I go to a Catholic school and whatnot, but this is one of the reasons why I'm losing my faith.
Yes, but you shouldn't let your beliefs change just because of how a certain group acts about it. Its an uninspired way to go about things.

dxsxhxcx
03-19-2012, 02:44 PM
It is already mentioned in the AC games.
This is for example Altairs vision on religions and faith:

"I have studied the ancient pagan faiths that came before this more recent obsession with a single, divine creator. They seem to have focused more on the fundamental forces at play in the world around us and less on arbitrary moral rules...
The sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. The tides ebb and flow. Grass grows, withers, dies, and then in time, emerges from the ground once more. The air turns warm then cools and back again. Some hidden energy keeps us fitted to the ground and pulls us back when we attempt to leave it.
Each of these movements was represented before by a god or goddess. Each force given face, but recognized as something distinct and powerful. Which is not to say there were not connections between these forces – a pantheon of individual spirits – of rules. Invisible hands guiding the progress of the world around us.
And so here there was an attempt to categorize, study, explain, and understand the way things work – even if it was flawed. But no more. Now we are asked to succumb to a far more simplified explanation. How naive to believe there might be a single answer to every question. Every mystery. That there exists a lone divine light which rules over all. They say it is a light that brings truth and love. I say it is a light that blinds us – and forces us to stumble about in ignorance.
I long for the day when men turn away from invisible monsters and once more embrace a more rational view of the world. But these new religions are so convenient – and promise such terrible punishment should one reject them – I worry that fear shall keep us stuck to what is surely the greatest lie ever told."

this page is amazing, I wonder if they took these words from an external source or if they were written by them...

SixKeys
03-19-2012, 05:00 PM
this page is amazing, I wonder if they took these words from an external source or if they were written by them...

I think it's doing a disservice to the AC writers to doubt that they could come up with something so eloquent on their own. There were many similarly brilliant lines of dialogue between Al Mualim and Altaïr in the first game.

Assassin_M
03-19-2012, 05:34 PM
I always believed that Assassins who had a specific faith would usually follow the Creed right next to their faith, but if Faith contradicts what they fight for then he/she must place the Creed ahead..

Jexx21
03-19-2012, 09:06 PM
It is already mentioned in the AC games.
This is for example Altairs vision on religions and faith:

"I have studied the ancient pagan faiths that came before this more recent obsession with a single, divine creator. They seem to have focused more on the fundamental forces at play in the world around us and less on arbitrary moral rules...
The sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. The tides ebb and flow. Grass grows, withers, dies, and then in time, emerges from the ground once more. The air turns warm then cools and back again. Some hidden energy keeps us fitted to the ground and pulls us back when we attempt to leave it.
Each of these movements was represented before by a god or goddess. Each force given face, but recognized as something distinct and powerful. Which is not to say there were not connections between these forces – a pantheon of individual spirits – of rules. Invisible hands guiding the progress of the world around us.
And so here there was an attempt to categorize, study, explain, and understand the way things work – even if it was flawed. But no more. Now we are asked to succumb to a far more simplified explanation. How naive to believe there might be a single answer to every question. Every mystery. That there exists a lone divine light which rules over all. They say it is a light that brings truth and love. I say it is a light that blinds us – and forces us to stumble about in ignorance.
I long for the day when men turn away from invisible monsters and once more embrace a more rational view of the world. But these new religions are so convenient – and promise such terrible punishment should one reject them – I worry that fear shall keep us stuck to what is surely the greatest lie ever told."

God and science doesn't have to be separate. In fact, I say that they are one and the same.

Even the ancient Greek philosophers who believed in the Pagan gods, moved away from their gods as the explanation for everything, and attempted to came up with logical reasons for why things happen. Take Poseidon, the god of the oceans, horses, and earthquakes. Some ancient Greek scientists came up with the explanation that the land floats upon the seas, and our earthquakes are when particularly vicious waves slam against the bottom of this floating land mass.

Altair himself may be an athiest, but the Assassins are not all athiests. While I believe that God is practically the answer to most questions we have about the world, that's more of a general answer. The world itself is very very complex, and everything happens because it makes sense, and because certain things do certain things. This is science. But I don't see why science has to be separate from faith.

Also, keep in mind... Altair lived in a time where wars were started because of religion, and where people fought solely in the name of their God. This was religious corruption, and blindly following the orders of their leaders. Not to mention the Pope supported this venture, and back then, anything the Pope did was golden.

Religion is what's bad, religion is what corrupts. Religion has human leaders with their own personal goals.

Faith doesn't. Faith is different from religion, because faith is personal. Religion is practically a corporation.


But no, this issue is NOT touched on in the game, as if Altair was an atheist, he didn't have a faith. So we do not know how faith guides an Assassin, as one has to have one first to be guided by it.

If the book Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood is correct, Ezio was a Christian. But of course, there isn't any proof for this in the games, and the issue is relatively untouched.

---------
The above post was added to the OP

rileypoole1234
03-19-2012, 09:17 PM
When they said let faith guide you, I didn't think they meant religious faith. I thought they meant something else, like faith in themselves, or faith in the Creed. I also did assume that Ezio was a Christian. He may not have been later in his life though. The Apple and the Visions of TWCB may have changed him. Didn't somebody say something like "I hope there is an afterlife" to Ezio or Altair, and they didn't say anything back? Maybe the Apple showed them something. I still did think Ezio was a Christian though.

Jexx21
03-19-2012, 09:23 PM
The Assassins never said let faith guide you, so I don't know what you're talking about...

Assassin_M
03-19-2012, 09:36 PM
When they said let faith guide you, I didn't think they meant religious faith. I thought they meant something else, like faith in themselves, or faith in the Creed. I also did assume that Ezio was a Christian. He may not have been later in his life though. The Apple and the Visions of TWCB may have changed him. Didn't somebody say something like "I hope there is an afterlife" to Ezio or Altair, and they didn't say anything back? Maybe the Apple showed them something. I still did think Ezio was a Christian though.
I always believed that Ezio was`nt christian but believed in the presence of God..
evident by this conversation:
Thief:"God help me !!"
Ezio:"He has more important things to do than answering your prayers"
This was in ACR when Ezio was searching for Sofia`s stolen painting..

YuurHeen
03-19-2012, 09:47 PM
plz let's keep religion and faith out of any games.

Jexx21
03-19-2012, 09:49 PM
religion and faith is already in Assassin's Creed...

but thanks for contributing to the discussion man, it helped a lot.

De Filosoof
03-19-2012, 10:58 PM
Religion is what's bad, religion is what corrupts. Religion has human leaders with their own personal goals.

Faith doesn't. Faith is different from religion, because faith is personal. Religion is practically a corporation.



True, i have nothing against people who believe in a higher power, who am i to say there isn't a higher power? Maybe our universe is just a drop of water and there's a whole other system outside our universe with different laws of nature, we just don't know.
But i think it's fair to say there isn't a god watching over us if you see what's going on in the world and if there is one i would call him rather sadistic if he's all powerful.
I understand it can comfort people who have a hard life so that's fine.
I'm quite spiritual myself but i don't believe in a particular god i believe in the power and intelligence of nature.

rileypoole1234
03-20-2012, 03:28 AM
I always believed that Ezio was`nt christian but believed in the presence of God..
evident by this conversation:
Thief:"God help me !!"
Ezio:"He has more important things to do than answering your prayers"
This was in ACR when Ezio was searching for Sofia`s stolen painting..

Actually I suppose you're right. Either way I believe Ezio believes/knows God exists.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-20-2012, 05:25 AM
God and science doesn't have to be separate. In fact, I say that they are one and the same.



The only thing science has proven to me is the fact that God wasn't just rolling the dice.

Epsilonyx
03-20-2012, 08:35 AM
Actually I suppose you're right. Either way I believe Ezio believes/knows God exists.

Correction, Ezio believes God exists. There is no way you can know a god exists. I suppose it may be possible that one does, and it also may be possible that none of this is truly real and it is all merely a conjuration of my mind. But why should we turn to these answers when we have solid evidence of how we truly came to be? Evolution is the only rational explanation we have at this time. As I said, a supernatural deity could exist, if the laws of nature only apply to us, but I think of all faiths, the Christian God is the least likely to exist. There are too many loop holes and contradictions

Poodle_of_Doom
03-20-2012, 03:19 PM
Correction, Ezio believes God exists. There is no way you can know a god exists. I suppose it may be possible that one does, and it also may be possible that none of this is truly real and it is all merely a conjuration of my mind. But why should we turn to these answers when we have solid evidence of how we truly came to be? Evolution is the only rational explanation we have at this time. As I said, a supernatural deity could exist, if the laws of nature only apply to us, but I think of all faiths, the Christian God is the least likely to exist. There are too many loop holes and contradictions


Actually, that's not a fair example. Your views of the world are heavily influenced, and what's percieved by you, may not be equally percieved by others. What this world is for you, may not be what it is for me. See below:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y

De Filosoof
03-20-2012, 03:59 PM
Correction, Ezio believes God exists. There is no way you can know a god exists. I suppose it may be possible that one does, and it also may be possible that none of this is truly real and it is all merely a conjuration of my mind. But why should we turn to these answers when we have solid evidence of how we truly came to be? Evolution is the only rational explanation we have at this time. As I said, a supernatural deity could exist, if the laws of nature only apply to us, but I think of all faiths, the Christian God is the least likely to exist. There are too many loop holes and contradictions

Exactly, and i think the reason why he believes in god(s) is because of his meetings with TWCB and can't wrap his mind around it so he perceives them as gods. I vaguely remember him calling TWCB gods when he rode back to Monteriggioni with Mario although Minerva said to him they weren't gods.

De Filosoof
03-20-2012, 04:02 PM
Actually, that's not a fair example. Your views of the world are heavily influenced, and what's percieved by you, may not be equally percieved by others. What this world is for you, may not be what it is for me. See below:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y

I always like the end conclusions from these kind of videos.
It reminds me a little bit of this wonderful conclusion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-j5kKSk_6U

Lol

Poodle_of_Doom
03-21-2012, 03:09 AM
Exactly, and i think the reason why he believes in god(s) is because of his meetings with TWCB and can't wrap his mind around it so he perceives them as gods. I vaguely remember him calling TWCB gods when he rode back to Monteriggioni with Mario although Minerva said to him they weren't gods.

The part I think you are recalling is when he first sees Minerva, and he asks "Are you,... Gods?", and she responds "No, not Gods. Simply more advanced."


I always like the end conclusions from these kind of videos.
It reminds me a little bit of this wonderful conclusion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-j5kKSk_6U

Lol

I enjoyed this. Thank you. :)

Calvarok
03-21-2012, 03:11 AM
The part I think you are recalling is when he first sees Minerva, and he asks "Are you,... Gods?", and she responds "No, not Gods. Simply more advanced."



I enjoyed this. Thank you. :)

They actually say "We simply came before".

Poodle_of_Doom
03-21-2012, 03:22 AM
They actually say "We simply came before".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqWqNtrmblE

Then go on to say they were more advanced in time. So, the point was conveyed to Ezio.

Jexx21
03-21-2012, 03:59 AM
Yea... I think Ezio knew they weren't gods. But how can he explain that to Claudia?

Anyway, I'd rather keep insults towards other faiths to a minimum in this topic, thanks.

JumpInTheFire13
03-21-2012, 04:10 AM
Yea... I think Ezio knew they weren't gods. But how can he explain that to Claudia?

Anyway, I'd rather keep insults towards other faiths to a minimum in this topic, thanks.
I thought everybody was actually being fairly mature about the subject. I didn't see any insults.

Jexx21
03-21-2012, 04:20 AM
I was just saying it, I would hate to see the topic degrade into dribble.

GeneralTrumbo
03-21-2012, 04:21 AM
Science and religion can both coexist.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-21-2012, 04:24 AM
I was just saying it, I would hate to see the topic degrade into dribble.

Then shut up about it until it happens. The only one sturring up a petty squable right now is you.

Jexx21
03-21-2012, 04:25 AM
k

Poodle_of_Doom
03-21-2012, 04:30 AM
Thank you.

JumpInTheFire13
03-21-2012, 04:30 AM
That awkward moment when you're just worsening the conflict by telling others to stop...

Poodle_of_Doom
03-21-2012, 04:31 AM
That awkward moment when you're just worsening the conflict by telling others to stop...

Worsening the affliction are we? What a hypocrite,... telling me to stop telling people to stop.

Seriously, you know how many times I've seen someone attempt to say something like that innocently, only for the conversation to degrade into an all out pissing match. I really like this thread, and don't want it locked.

Jexx21
03-21-2012, 04:43 AM
No offense to you poodle, but your latest post almost started me on a rampage. Then I realized we both don't want that. I'm going to delete my previous posts and take back my statements, I'll just hope you do the same.

edit: this is an apology by the way.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-21-2012, 05:02 AM
No offense to you poodle, but your latest post almost started me on a rampage. Then I realized we both don't want that. I'm going to delete my previous posts and take back my statements, I'll just hope you do the same.

edit: this is an apology by the way.

Without going into a huge amount of detail, as I think it will only further instigate the situation, I respectfully decline your invitation to remove my posts, and graceously accept your apology.

Epsilonyx
03-21-2012, 05:03 AM
Actually, that's not a fair example. Your views of the world are heavily influenced, and what's percieved by you, may not be equally percieved by others. What this world is for you, may not be what it is for me. See below:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y
What's not a fair example? This is basically repeating what I've already said; maybe nothing is truly real, instead it is all just an artificial perception - or dream - of our mind

JumpInTheFire13
03-21-2012, 05:10 AM
How is this relevant?
They were talking about how different people perceive science and religion differently.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-21-2012, 05:13 AM
It was the concept of percieved reality. Basically, my point was that this is an opinion you base on perceived fact, and affects your perception of reality. All in all, peception is not always what it's cracked up to be. For example, the AC series, and the plot line it has put forth. It challenges the very notion of reality in a similar fashion.

jmk1999
03-21-2012, 05:16 AM
this topic is a definite gray area for the forums. please keep personal beliefs out of it unless you wish to have this topic closed. heavily religious and political discussions are frowned upon here for obvious reasons. if you wish to take this discussion further, open a private group about it.

Epsilonyx
03-21-2012, 05:23 AM
What obvious reasons are those?

Poodle_of_Doom
03-21-2012, 05:40 AM
At this point, it's more theological than philosophical.

LightRey
03-21-2012, 12:01 PM
What obvious reasons are those?
Escalation of discussions into flame wars, people becoming shunned or isolated because of their religious or political beliefs, etc.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-21-2012, 03:19 PM
Or worse, the need to ban someone.

De Filosoof
03-21-2012, 05:24 PM
The part I think you are recalling is when he first sees Minerva, and he asks "Are you,... Gods?", and she responds "No, not Gods. Simply more advanced."



Yes, that was in AC2 but in the beginning of ACB where you did all the little objectives like capturing a horse and stuff when you meet all the people in the villa he still calls Minerva a godess while she just said to him she isn't.

JumpInTheFire13
03-21-2012, 10:56 PM
Yes, that was in AC2 but in the beginning of ACB where you did all the little objectives like capturing a horse and stuff when you meet all the people in the villa he still calls Minerva a godess while she just said to him she isn't.
Probably because he couldn't comprehend what she was, so he just thought of her as a goddess.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-21-2012, 11:45 PM
Or perhaps he could, but wasn't sure that other people would believe him..... Kind of like saying that you encountered Aliens from another world.

jmk1999
03-22-2012, 07:46 AM
Topic closed by request of the OP... probably a good idea.