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crtChunk72
08-03-2004, 02:40 PM
Manhunt blamed for murder (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3934277.stm)

Wondering what some of your thoughts are... seeing this posted around a few boards...

http://www.bigbutton.com.au/~evilazz/crtChunk72/crtChunk72.jpg

crtChunk72
08-03-2004, 02:40 PM
Manhunt blamed for murder (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/3934277.stm)

Wondering what some of your thoughts are... seeing this posted around a few boards...

http://www.bigbutton.com.au/~evilazz/crtChunk72/crtChunk72.jpg

crtChunk72
08-03-2004, 02:48 PM
My thoughts: The mother of the slain boy is angry, understandably. However, from my viewpoint, the game is not the problem, it's the murderer and their parental misgivings.

Not sure about the UK, but in the US (I believe, Amb can verify) if a parent thinks their child is mature enough to handle a loaded weapon, they will do so regardless of local laws, but when that same child commits murder with that weapon, the parent is indeed held responsible.

Not saying a video game is the same as a loaded gun, but if a parent believes their child is mature enough to handle a game that's rated for a more mature audience, and it turns out that parent was wrong, the parent should still be held responsible. It's not the gun makers fault, the same as it's not the game makers fault.

Certain people will be prone to violence, and without someone around to spot the early warning signs and do something about it, bad things will happen, regardless of whether or not that person happens to own a violent video game.

As far as the game itself goes, it does seem gratuitously violent and I myself would not play it or allow any of my children to play it.

http://www.bigbutton.com.au/~evilazz/crtChunk72/crtChunk72.jpg

MT_UnclePhil
08-03-2004, 03:37 PM
Its the kids stupid parents, even if the kid is over 18 keep that bs away from them if they are to insecure (glances at the counter-strike tech call post).

http://markstower.hypermart.net/uncle_banner3.jpg
"You watch you wait, you take a breath, Steady your gun, You take aim,
Your heart stops, You squeeze the trigger, One shot One kill."

CUDGEdaveUK
08-03-2004, 04:11 PM
Well another game(rockstar...again,seems to be the fashion to sue rockstar these days) gets blamed for another killing tragic though it is,why did the parents let this lad buy or let him play this game if he's underage?also the parents need to think of the boys mental state of mind,that he could do something like this.
If a game has triggered a psychotic episode in someone then surely the person's mind is unbalanced.
The stores here in the UK are taking the game of it's shelves,now why not take all the tarantino movies of the shelves along with the many violent japanese anime films(which i have a small collection and clearly state 18 cert only)
I have manhunt and it IS violent and as rockstar have said "It's a game for the ADULT market".
Also police here have said Manhunt had nothing to do with the lad's death.

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Voshterkoff
08-03-2004, 06:30 PM
The only way the game could be blamed for his death is if the CD jumped out of it's case during the night and slit the boys throat while he was sleeping. I had better be carefull, I have tons of violent games and even a gun in my room http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif



I wonder if I will make it through the night http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

<marquee loop="infinite" width=700> <font color= green> : )-|--<

the stick fugure
</font></marquee>

Voshterkoff
08-04-2004, 01:33 PM
Just as an update, I am still alive http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<marquee loop="infinite" width=700> <font color= green> : )-|--<

the stick fugure
</font></marquee>

crtChunk72
08-04-2004, 02:04 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Good to know!

http://www.bigbutton.com.au/~evilazz/crtChunk72/crtChunk72.jpg

DCell
08-04-2004, 03:22 PM
Like I said to these topics similar to this thread.

I play Vice City and you don't see me launching an RPG at some cop car.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v343/filipinachica/Other/incubus_copy.jpg

NapalmFrog
08-04-2004, 03:23 PM
When people blame games for this garbage, it'f ridiculous. Just because a few kids have some problems in the head and can't distinguish reality vs the unreal, doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer.

I've played many violent games, and sometimes play them more violently then they should be (I do not believe a level is complete unless every person on that level is dead, is one example), but nothing's happened to me.

Only thing that a PC game did to me was get me into the whole industrial music thing. That was a racing game...

EDIT:
Also, still after actually having this raw firepower (I am in the canadian reserves), after handling things fro handguns to short range anti-armour weapons, i have NO urge to go on a rampage and kill...Imagine if those dudes entered the army...major slaughter house...


Why don't I drink American beer? Well, why don't I buy a Moroccan snowmobile, or... a Japanese hotdog? Why don't I wear Italian hip waders, or... Jamaican snowshoes? So, why don't I drink American beer... because I AM. CANADIAN!

buzzcocks
08-05-2004, 03:55 PM
Turns out the kid who committed the murder didn't own the game, his mate did. And the police say the game had nothing to do with it- the motive was straightforward robbery.

CUDGEdaveUK
08-05-2004, 04:03 PM
Yep, once again the media ignore the fact's and blame games for some mindless idiot's actions.

http://free.one.picturehost.co.uk/rmcstone1.jpg

nagant_m44
08-05-2004, 04:09 PM
yea tell that to the mothers against videogame addiction and violence. (www.mavav.org (http://www.mavav.org))

CUDGEdaveUK
08-05-2004, 04:18 PM
Yes and tell them to get rid of those addictive things called televisions their children watch everyday and see violence on the news everynight and if they have the internet...god help em.
The world is'nt disney world mothers,your children need to see a little of the S t in this world

http://free.one.picturehost.co.uk/rmcstone1.jpg

Demon_Mustang
08-08-2004, 12:18 AM
Again, it's society blaming inanimate objects for their shortcomings. There's no doubt that today's media and such "inspire" HOW some of these idiots commit their acts, but it's many characteristics of the criminal and the parents of the criminal that ultimately lead to the act, not the game itself.

I can play these games all day and will never be able to harm someone, simply because of the way I am. The person who did this, however, could be kept in a room without any games and still go out and do what he did.

It's like trying to blame the sticks and mud for the beaver bulding a dam.

______________________________________________
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." - William J. Clinton (1998)

Hornet57
08-09-2004, 08:11 AM
I agree that the responsibility falls in the hands of the parents. Its their job to make sure the game their (young) son is playing is not getting to his head. I am sure if they look close enough as parents should be able to see their child's odd behavior and take the appropriate steps before something tragic happens.

Having said that, I think some responsibility should go to the game developers in putting out games that are evil. Games should be banned by the consumer by not purchasing them. A game like "Manhunt" doesn't sound very entertaining unless you are Saddam Hussein. I wonder if Uday and Qusay played that game when they where growing up....hmmm

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You're getting old when you get the same
sensation from a rocking chair that you once got
from a roller coaster.

Crushda
08-09-2004, 05:01 PM
I fully agree with you that the biggest part falls towards the Parents, If the Parents do not learn their kids any values.. how should they know or even act towards any values.

But the same responsebilities hits the gameing industry, games like SOF2 or now Doom3 just add pointless gore effects for no use or need of any gameplay. Here exactly is the responebility of the programmers and companys asked.
Pls like Carmac should get from lawside a permission of working in that business for like 5 years [like hackers get, no access on any PC] (which mean their business death), if they programm sick BS like this Doom3.
Gore effects programmed just because of showing gore, creating a shock effect, is basicly wrong, because it harms the kids. no use of any discussion of allowing those game just from 18/ 21 + because whatever sell restriction is on, the kid will get the game anyway. So the only way of preventing the kids (teens are kids) of harm from games is not produceing games such as SOF or Doom3.

Demon_Mustang
08-09-2004, 05:07 PM
Well, if there is a demand for those types of games, someone will make them. Ultimately, the games themselves are not to blame. If the person was raised correctly and knew the difference between right and wrong, real and fantasy, there wouldn't be such a problem. Proof of this lies in all of us, who have played such games, but have never went out and killed or harmed someone because of it.

Personally, I do not like these pointless gore games. I've posted a lengthy thread back in the day arguing the "Mature" rating since I don't feel games with gore and sexuality is very mature at all. It seems that it is mostly kids that really want those types of things in their video games. I want them to make the ratings simply an age range, such as 1-5, 6-13, 13-17, 18+, instead of giving them names which people have to look up to know what they mean.

Despite the fact that I don't like these games, I cannot blame them for what these kids did. Those kids would have done the same thing using something else as an influence if the game wasn't available, it's simply that they were not properly raised, so their minds were easy to twist.

That's my opinion on it.

______________________________________________
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." - William J. Clinton (1998)

Crushda
08-09-2004, 05:20 PM
I do not agree with you at all.
as a result of the demonstration of gore effects the kids do blunt.
The deadeing of ppls by seeing gore effects is an effect proofed by lots of investigations,
so the "games" are to blame, or either the programmers.
Same with security policies, if the ppls cant handle it themselfs by its own (guns), there is the state requested with the helping hand (gun laws) to force the things into the right direction.

NapalmFrog
08-09-2004, 06:23 PM
It is true to some extent that video games are "a" factor (not "the") factor in the desensetizing of little kids, but if they have a senese morals, what would that do? It is parents and society in general passing along these morals. If parents let morals be learnt through shows, movies, games, music, that is their fault...the point of the parent is to guide the kid along life, not point him in the direction to go and say "I'll catch up later, I'm busy."

I'm far away from being a parent, so my opinion may be a bit off, but it makes total sense to me, and I didn't end up in some institution/prison.

Why don't I drink American beer? Well, why don't I buy a Moroccan snowmobile, or... a Japanese hotdog? Why don't I wear Italian hip waders, or... Jamaican snowshoes? So, why don't I drink American beer... because I AM. CANADIAN!

Demon_Mustang
08-09-2004, 06:37 PM
crushda wrote:
"I do not agree with you at all.
as a result of the demonstration of gore effects the kids do blunt.
The deadeing of ppls by seeing gore effects is an effect proofed by lots of investigations,
so the "games" are to blame, or either the programmers.
Same with security policies, if the ppls cant handle it themselfs by its own (guns), there is the state requested with the helping hand (gun laws) to force the things into the right direction."

Well, under your hypothesis, anyone exposed to such games will turn to criminal activities. Which has not happened at all. The majority of people who play these games do not do these things. Which, in itself, already disproves it. You're trying to prove a single factor that is to blame. If this is true, then whenever that single factor is applied, the same effect would result. The simple fact that this isn't the case, proves that there are obviously many other, more influential, factors involved.

If a person is raised to know what is right and what is wrong, no type of media short of mind control can make them do something like this.

______________________________________________
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." - William J. Clinton (1998)

NapalmFrog
08-09-2004, 06:52 PM
As with many things, it takes a few rotten apples to spoil the batch... out of the millions of gamers who game, how many people did this? a handful? not enough to go crazy yet. If a murder spree happens where thousands of kids go on a rampage, i'll gladly jump bandwagons

Why don't I drink American beer? Well, why don't I buy a Moroccan snowmobile, or... a Japanese hotdog? Why don't I wear Italian hip waders, or... Jamaican snowshoes? So, why don't I drink American beer... because I AM. CANADIAN!

Crushda
08-10-2004, 04:26 AM
Demon_Mustang I really do have to wonder about u,
neither ur not capable to read or again u just try to flame ppls.
Where exactly did I say that all ppls who do see gore "turn to criminal activities". Did I even say that with any word? no, not at all, just you flamemoron are again trying to twist other ppls words.

It is a matter of fact that viewing gore effect blunt, peroid. It lowers the border towards violence, that easy it is.
This is like I said above ONE Part of the story. Most important (as SAID ABOVE) is the parents teaching the kids values.
BUT Gore effects DO their harm, and they are totally POINTLESS in GAMES, so i dont see any NEED for them. Further more, since they do harm, and the developers DO Fail in showing self responsible actions, there should be IMO a lawrestriction.

Hornet57
08-10-2004, 08:07 AM
Besides the Parental guidence that is clearly MIA from todays society the Rating system that it is in effect today it is a big Joke. Kids today are bombarded with SEX, DRUGS and violence in the movies and even tv shows under the rating of PG-13 where in my day the rating would have been an R to softcore porn. If the ratings where controled by people with common sense kids today would be better off. For example when I heard a rap (****)song by one of these uneducated, low life thugs and realized what they were saying I used the CD as a freesbe and got some entertainment. My daughter wasn't very entertained but hey I paid for it I can do what ever I want to with it. But after I took the time to explain why I had to do that...she agreed.

http://www.forumsigs.com/users/Hornet24811111/SIG2.jpg

You're getting old when you get the same
sensation from a rocking chair that you once got
from a roller coaster.

[This message was edited by Hornet57 on Tue August 10 2004 at 07:25 AM.]

Ambassador
08-10-2004, 08:31 AM
I'd just personally like to know how a kid got the money and the transportation / means to purchase a M rated game. But of course... it cant be the parents' fault.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/Musicbunny/Ambass%20stuff/Ambass.gif
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
-George Orwell

NapalmFrog
08-10-2004, 02:02 PM
LOTS of the movies in the US that are rated R are toned to 14A in Canada (self explanatory). There are a buncha movies that are 18A, but usually have really explicit stuff, either violence or nudity. To get a Canadian R, the movie has to be super duper nudalicious... not sure about the gore part...

Comes to show the difference in different regions... How does it differ overseas?

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crtChunk72
08-10-2004, 02:43 PM
I'm glad you asked, Napalm.

Japan struggles with child rage (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5642715/)

In this article, about Japan's problem with child rage, they discuss how children watching violent anime movies on their cell phones might be causing sudden outbursts of rage among their children. In the particular site above, an 11 year old girl brutally stabs and kicks her classmate...

We have violent video games in UK and violent animes on cell phones in Japan...

http://www.bigbutton.com.au/~evilazz/crtChunk72/crtChunk72.jpg

NapalmFrog
08-10-2004, 09:05 PM
My geography teacher from like 5 years back did a year in Japan. she said the kids could be real brutal. my memory may be awry after this long, but she said that some ended up slitting one guys throat, and possibly beheaded him. . . not related to entertainment by the way, just a statement.

o, and i just found this out about a clockwork orange:

Argentina:13 (18 was original)
Australia:R
Canada:R
Chile:18
Finland:K-18
France:-16
Irelandhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gifBanned) (1971-1999)
Italy:VM14 (VM18 was original)
Japan:R-15
Mexico:C
Netherlands:16
New Zealand:R18
Norway:18
Singaporehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gifBanned)
South Koreahttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gifBanned)
Sweden:15
USA:R (Original was X)
West Germany:16

that was a good movie, got out of hand. . .notice the rating in sweden, germany, japan, italy, france, not a movie they should be seeing... (hmm...i saw it three years ago as a 15y/o, parents still don't know)

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NapalmFrog
08-10-2004, 09:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crtChunk72:
I'm glad you asked, Napalm.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5642715/

In this article, about Japan's problem with child rage, they discuss how children watching violent anime movies on their cell phones might be causing sudden outbursts of rage among their children. In the particular site above, an 11 year old girl brutally stabs and kicks her classmate...

We have violent video games in UK and violent animes on cell phones in Japan...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i remember now! that beheading in that article, my geo teacher was at that school that year teaching english...chaos was everywhere

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Crushda
08-11-2004, 02:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NapalmFrog:
....
West Germany:16
....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
ermm how much updated are your sources ??
Do you know thre is since 14 years no more "West Germany" just Germany since both parts united.

Anyway U need to know that in some European Countrys the Film Version is diffrent from the Version you see for example in America. They cut out the violent parts. For example if u have seen "Last Boy Scout" with Bruce Willis then evil guy in the end falls from the light tower into the rotating helicopter. In the German Version you just see him starting to fall but nothing of the helicopter, since this hacking of a body is pointless gore effect which has even nothing to do with the story or would have any effect on the storyline.

Same is with Clockwork Orange, there are parts cuted out so that the film rated 16.

NapalmFrog
08-11-2004, 03:06 PM
my initiative has struck me down again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://home.primus.ca/~sidhuclan/MeinTeilForumSig.JPG

Demon_Mustang
08-11-2004, 11:08 PM
I wonder if Japan's culture of super strict and harsh parents and the never resting strive for success and competition has anything to do with that...

______________________________________________
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." - William J. Clinton (1998)

NapalmFrog
08-11-2004, 11:11 PM
think of a child's brain as a plank of wood. the more pressure u put on it, the more likely it will tend to snap... i take karate, i should know http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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fox09
08-12-2004, 07:27 PM
i had a bunch of friends over one night and we watched some movies and **** and we watched one movie called "The Jackal" its the one where Bruce willis is an assassin. and in one scene one guy gets his arm blown off by this huge HMG ,and then one of my less mature friends says"wow, that gun was so cool!" and then we asked him "do u even watch the movie for the story or just the guns", he didnt answer.and then carried on about how cool the gun was

and that same friend invited me to go see "The Matrix Revolutions" and after the movie all he could talk about was how cool the mechs were with there *MACHINE GUNS*
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

I came, i SAWed, i died

NapalmFrog
08-12-2004, 10:18 PM
if anybody want's to see an example of a japanese horror/action movie, and see what the big deal about is over there (as mentioned above), check out Battle Royale, quite interesting... disturbing, but nowhere near as disturning as some of the other movies... it's 15 years olds watching this movie...

http://home.primus.ca/~sidhuclan/MeinTeilForumSig.JPG

Demon_Mustang
08-13-2004, 02:29 AM
Yah, and? When I was 15, I watched tons of gory violent movies. I also played games with blood everywhere, not as many then, but still. I still had no will to do any of the stuff to real people. If the person had a strong personality it would be VERY hard to influence him/her to do something that isn't right.

It ultimately comes down to the type of person that they are. Depending on how strong of a personality they have, they would receive the same influences differently. How a person develops into what they are can be argued with many different theories. I believe that "rules" or morals and "rights and wrongs" are hardwired from an early age, and the rest of the personality will be developed after that all based and within the rights and wrongs they know to be true.

Trust me, if a person has a clear understanding that everyone has feelings and that everyone has a will to live and are people just like he/she is, it would be VERY difficult to get that person to do any harm to someone else. Unfortunately it seems to be hard to get someone to that state now-a-days...

______________________________________________
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is." - William J. Clinton (1998)

ScrubberManFSJ
08-13-2004, 07:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crushda:
I do not agree with you at all.
as a result of the demonstration of gore effects the kids do blunt.
The deadeing of ppls by seeing gore effects is an effect proofed by lots of investigations,
so the "games" are to blame, or either the programmers.
Same with security policies, if the ppls cant handle it themselfs by its own (guns), there is the state requested with the helping hand (gun laws) to force the things into the right direction.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So pixels put together in a cetain order, displayed on a small screen that you have to sit in front of and "load" up are to be blamed for the violence in the world? Not the fact that other forms of media have alot more influence, such as rap music that generally teaches the ideals like "don't trust authority" and "women are (b)itches to be used and thrown away"? What about other sources of media such as the television news programs that continuously "glamourise" things such as serial killers. And seem to show nothing but death and destruction?

If games and programers are to blame, better turn off the MTV as well.......



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For the last time! YOU MAY NOT PLAY WITH THE LIGHTS AND SIRENS!!!!

Ambassador
08-13-2004, 08:32 AM
lol that is so effen true scrubberman...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/Musicbunny/Ambass%20stuff/Ambass.gif
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
-George Orwell