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View Full Version : Assassin's Creed Story up? (SPOILER ALERT)



X--GameA--X
03-16-2012, 03:32 AM
Alright, i just finished playing the full story mode of AC:R (WARNING SPOILER ALERT!!!) And when i got towards the end when Ezio is in Altiars library he found the Apple of Eden. Well that didn't make any sense to me because if you remember WAY back to Assassin's Creed 2. Ezio found the Apple of Eden in that one Chapel type building and went to defeat the Pope with it to get in that one Vault type thing. So if Ezio found the Apple in Assassin's Creed 2 how did it get in Altiar's Library? You know what i mean? Ezio already found the Apple, then get's surprised by it not knowing what it is in the end of AC:R. Altiar was dead before Ezio was alive so i wonder how it got there if Ezio already found it. I tried to explain this as best as i can. If you still don't understand i'm sorry. But i think Ubisoft seriously F'd up on the story. I'm not dissing Ubisoft or the AC series. I love the series.

Mr_Stunner
03-16-2012, 03:35 AM
They are two different Apples dude, Altair decieved everyone saying he sent his apple to Cyprus, but he managed to keep it, the one found by Ezio on Assassin's Creed 2 was another one not Altair's

Jexx21
03-16-2012, 03:46 AM
There are at least 6 apples...

rileypoole1234
03-16-2012, 04:12 AM
Did you pay attention to any of the plot?

But anyway yeah, there are at least 6 apples. There are multiple POE's all over the world.

Farlander1991
03-16-2012, 04:48 AM
Although, I think it's pretty safe to say that the sequence with Altair's apple at the end was included just because of the contradiction at the end of AC:B where Desmond has found Ezio's apple... which originally was supposed to be the same Altair had (and the same that got destroyed in the accident).

Because now it seems like kinda a big stretch. If Altair knew that there was an apple on Cyprus (let's say based on the map in PoE), why would he want everybody to know that? The Templars could get to it first, and, in fact, they DID get to it first. And if he didn't know that there was an apple on Cyprus... then it's a really huge coincidence that there was one there.

But, that's just minor nitpicking.

JumpInTheFire13
03-16-2012, 04:58 AM
Also, his name is spelled Altair, not "Altiar." Minor mistake though. Welcome to the forums! :)

Lonesoldier2012
03-16-2012, 05:51 AM
There is more then one apple....................

LightRey
03-16-2012, 12:00 PM
>_<

Mr_Shade
03-16-2012, 12:04 PM
Indeed as already posted, there is more than one apple..



It may be a little late now, but I would suggest you play the series in order, so you have a more complete view of the plot, before jumping to conclusions, since the community here are very passionate about it.


Or


You should check out the wealth of information on the AC wiki ;)

Assassin_M
03-16-2012, 12:26 PM
Indeed as already posted, there is more than one apple..



It may be a little late now, but I would suggest you play the series in order, so you have a more complete view of the plot, before jumping to conclusions, since the community here are very passionate about it.


Or


You should check out the wealth of information on the AC wiki ;)
from the looks of it its not about order..
He doesnt seem to have played Brotherhood..

EscoBlades
03-16-2012, 01:03 PM
>_<

Surprised you didn't go with your standard reply to these ;)

X--GameA--X
03-16-2012, 01:10 PM
I've played all the Assassin's creed in Order, on the first day they have come out. Yes including Brotherhood -_-...

LightRey
03-16-2012, 01:10 PM
Surprised you didn't go with your standard reply to these ;)
I would have, but I caught a cold, so I'm taking it easy.


I've played all the Assassin's creed in Order, on the first day they have come out. Yes including Brotherhood -_-...
Then pay closer attention to the story next time.

X--GameA--X
03-16-2012, 01:12 PM
I have played all the Assassin's Creed's in order, and yes Brotherhood -_-...

X--GameA--X
03-16-2012, 01:13 PM
I don't remember hearing anything about "6 Apples" I don't think they mentioned it at all. They just mentioned how many Eden Artifacts there were.

obliviondoll
03-16-2012, 01:14 PM
Also, his name is spelled Altair, not "Altiar." Minor mistake though. Welcome to the forums! :)

Actually, it's Alta´r.

Even more minor than the mistake he made, but still technically incorrect :P

LightRey
03-16-2012, 01:14 PM
I don't remember hearing anything about "6 Apples" I don't think they mentioned it at all. They just mentioned how many Eden Artifacts there were.
They're mentioned in Subject 16's The Truth files.

EscoBlades
03-16-2012, 01:16 PM
I have played all the Assassin's Creed's in order, and yes Brotherhood -_-...

Are you SURE??!

X--GameA--X
03-16-2012, 01:21 PM
Lol yes i've played all of the Assassin's Creeds, getting a name wrong means i didn't play them? I have all of the Assassin's Creeds, I've Pre-Ordered them all. Including AC3 which i did last week.

LightRey
03-16-2012, 01:26 PM
Lol yes i've played all of the Assassin's Creeds, getting a name wrong means i didn't play them? I have all of the Assassin's Creeds, I've Pre-Ordered them all. Including AC3 which i did last week.
No it's not just the name. If only it were just the name. Did you even play through the optional stuff in the games?

PantherophisG
03-16-2012, 02:26 PM
Although, I think it's pretty safe to say that the sequence with Altair's apple at the end was included just because of the contradiction at the end of AC:B where Desmond has found Ezio's apple... which originally was supposed to be the same Altair had (and the same that got destroyed in the accident).

Because now it seems like kinda a big stretch. If Altair knew that there was an apple on Cyprus (let's say based on the map in PoE), why would he want everybody to know that? The Templars could get to it first, and, in fact, they DID get to it first. And if he didn't know that there was an apple on Cyprus... then it's a really huge coincidence that there was one there.

But, that's just minor nitpicking.

I'm not really trying to start anything, but unless it's laid out in Bloodlines that Altair left his Apple in Cyprus, I'm pretty sure there is no contradiction and that the games never stated that there was any real connection with Ezio's apple and Altair at all. I'm still playing through Bloodlines (kinda) so I might end up finding out otherwise. Pretty sure that they were always intended to be separate apples. Altair may have known there was an Apple on Cyprus, but by the time you see him tell is son to tell everyone his Apple is hidden there, he would have seen into his Apple to know that the one on Cyprus would eventually end up in Ezio's/Desmond's hands.

LightRey
03-16-2012, 02:32 PM
I'm not really trying to start anything, but unless it's laid out in Bloodlines that Altair left his Apple in Cyprus, I'm pretty sure there is no contradiction and that the games never stated that there was any real connection with Ezio's apple and Altair at all. I'm still playing through Bloodlines (kinda) so I might end up finding out otherwise. Pretty sure that they were always intended to be separate apples. Altair may have known there was an Apple on Cyprus, but by the time you see him tell is son to tell everyone his Apple is hidden there, he would have seen into his Apple to know that the one on Cyprus would eventually end up in Ezio's/Desmond's hands.
This is correct. From the 5th memory seal it becomes clear that Alta´r deliberately had his son (and the codex) spread the rumor that he had left his apple in Cyprus. Though it is unclear whether he actually knew there was an apple there, it seems very likely considering the prophecy he left in the Codex regarding the Ezio (The Prophet), the staff and his apple.

He did this in order to keep the apple safe until Ezio found it at the end of ACR, so that he could perform his final task as prophet and relay Jupiter's revelation to Desmond.

PantherophisG
03-16-2012, 02:40 PM
This is correct. From the 5th memory seal it becomes clear that Alta´r deliberately had his son (and the codex) spread the rumor that he had left his apple in Cyprus. Though it is unclear whether he actually knew there was an apple there, it seems very likely considering the prophecy he left in the Codex regarding the Ezio (The Prophet), the staff and his apple.

He did this in order to keep the apple safe until Ezio found it at the end of ACR, so that he could perform his final task as prophet and relay Jupiter's revelation to Desmond.

That's what I thought. Still gotta finish my Bloodlines game, but I don't expect the story to cause any kind of massive loophole in the overall story arc.

pacmanate
03-16-2012, 04:12 PM
The OP is the most FUQED OP I have ever seen.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-16-2012, 04:13 PM
Alright, i just finished playing the full story mode of AC:R (WARNING SPOILER ALERT!!!) And when i got towards the end when Ezio is in Altiars library he found the Apple of Eden. Well that didn't make any sense to me because if you remember WAY back to Assassin's Creed 2. Ezio found the Apple of Eden in that one Chapel type building and went to defeat the Pope with it to get in that one Vault type thing. So if Ezio found the Apple in Assassin's Creed 2 how did it get in Altiar's Library? You know what i mean? Ezio already found the Apple, then get's surprised by it not knowing what it is in the end of AC:R. Altiar was dead before Ezio was alive so i wonder how it got there if Ezio already found it. I tried to explain this as best as i can. If you still don't understand i'm sorry. But i think Ubisoft seriously F'd up on the story. I'm not dissing Ubisoft or the AC series. I love the series.

I've said this on another thread, and I'll say it here: Anyone else getting tired of these uber zealouts crying foul before they even have a clue? I mean, seriously, I find people screaming out, crying foul, and can't even get their facts straight. How hard is this really? There is more than one apple. The assassins have always fought on both sides of a conflict. And we'd appreciate you at least trying to spell the main characters name right (for the love of God, whenever you talk about Ezio, don't spell it as Etzio like those other noobs! *shakes fist*)....

AssassinVenice
03-16-2012, 08:25 PM
I just finished AC1 and there's something wrong indeed. In AC1 Lucy says that the Masyaf Apple was retrieved but it was later destroyed in an underground facility in Denver. Then there is the Cyprus Apple that has nothing to do with this discussion, apart from it being the one that Ezio posessed and later hid it in the Coliseum and in ACB, Desmond retrieved it with Lucy, Shaun and Rebecca. Now there is a third Apple that is supposed to be the one that got destroyed in Denver but at the same time, it is the one that was locked in the Secret Library beneath Masyaf. Either there were 2 Apples in Masyaf or Lucy lied about the Denver incident.
OR THE DEVLOPERS SCREWED UP! :o

InfectedNation
03-16-2012, 08:58 PM
I just finished AC1 and there's something wrong indeed. In AC1 Lucy says that the Masyaf Apple was retrieved but it was later destroyed in an underground facility in Denver. Then there is the Cyprus Apple that has nothing to do with this discussion, apart from it being the one that Ezio posessed and later hid it in the Coliseum and in ACB, Desmond retrieved it with Lucy, Shaun and Rebecca. Now there is a third Apple that is supposed to be the one that got destroyed in Denver but at the same time, it is the one that was locked in the Secret Library beneath Masyaf. Either there were 2 Apples in Masyaf or Lucy lied about the Denver incident.
OR THE DEVLOPERS SCREWED UP! :o

Nope. The apple which Ezio discovers AND LEAVES in Masyaf at the end of Revelations is the one which was destroyed in the Denver incident (Some time before AC). Ezio's apple was left in the Colleseum and retrieved by Desmond and co in Brotherhood.

LightRey
03-16-2012, 09:51 PM
Nope. The apple which Ezio discovers AND LEAVES in Masyaf at the end of Revelations is the one which was destroyed in the Denver incident (Some time before AC). Ezio's apple was left in the Colleseum and retrieved by Desmond and co in Brotherhood.
Well it wasn't left in the Colosseum, it was left in Juno's Temple under the Santa Maria in Aracoeli. The path Ezio and Desmond take just leads from the Colosseum to there.

InfectedNation
03-16-2012, 10:47 PM
Well it wasn't left in the Colosseum, it was left in Juno's Temple under the Santa Maria in Aracoeli. The path Ezio and Desmond take just leads from the Colosseum to there.

Ah yeah, the other Assassins drove up to Capitoline Hill and entered via the church right?

LightRey
03-16-2012, 11:33 PM
Ah yeah, the other Assassins drove up to Capitoline Hill and entered via the church right?
Yup. I've actually been there. My first reaction was exactly the same as Rebecca's. xD

X--GameA--X
03-16-2012, 11:43 PM
I've said this on another thread, and I'll say it here: Anyone else getting tired of these uber zealouts crying foul before they even have a clue? I mean, seriously, I find people screaming out, crying foul, and can't even get their facts straight. How hard is this really? There is more than one apple. The assassins have always fought on both sides of a conflict. And we'd appreciate you at least trying to spell the main characters name right (for the love of God, whenever you talk about Ezio, don't spell it as Etzio like those other noobs! *shakes fist*)....

Honestly dude, your trolling just because i didn't have all the facts? and to the other guy who asked if i played the Optional missions, I played some but didn't have enough time to play all of them. Such as the Truth Files.

LightRey
03-17-2012, 12:09 AM
Honestly dude, your trolling just because i didn't have all the facts? and to the other guy who asked if i played the Optional missions, I played some but didn't have enough time to play all of them. Such as the Truth Files.
Then please don't accuse Ubi of F-ing up the story until you have all the facts.

Farlander1991
03-17-2012, 01:53 AM
I'm not really trying to start anything, but unless it's laid out in Bloodlines that Altair left his Apple in Cyprus, I'm pretty sure there is no contradiction and that the games never stated that there was any real connection with Ezio's apple and Altair at all. I'm still playing through Bloodlines (kinda) so I might end up finding out otherwise. Pretty sure that they were always intended to be separate apples. Altair may have known there was an Apple on Cyprus, but by the time you see him tell is son to tell everyone his Apple is hidden there, he would have seen into his Apple to know that the one on Cyprus would eventually end up in Ezio's/Desmond's hands.


This is correct. From the 5th memory seal it becomes clear that Alta´r deliberately had his son (and the codex) spread the rumor that he had left his apple in Cyprus. Though it is unclear whether he actually knew there was an apple there, it seems very likely considering the prophecy he left in the Codex regarding the Ezio (The Prophet), the staff and his apple.

He did this in order to keep the apple safe until Ezio found it at the end of ACR, so that he could perform his final task as prophet and relay Jupiter's revelation to Desmond.

Well, now that AC:R has been released, there is NO contradiction, BUT. The only saving grace for this situation to not be a contradiction is that nothing is actually STATED in previous games, just implied.

In Codex pages found in ACII, Altair says that he sealed his Apple in the treasury. It is not stated directly that the treasury is on Cyprus, however it is heavily implied - also IIRC Bloodlines' plot reinforces the thought (and also that it was hidden in the treasury on Cyprus is mentioned on the AC wiki, listing AC2 as a source...). By the way, judging by Altair's codex - Genghis Khan's invasion happened AFTER he sealed the Apple away (the pages are numbered for a reason, right?).

Anyway. What I'm saying is: originally the Apple on Cyprus was supposed to be Altair's apple. It wasn't stated directly, but it was implied. That actually was what everybody thought at the time. Then AC:Brotherhood was released. And everybody noted the contradiction with the Apples: if Ezio had Altair's apple which was destroyed in the accident, then how did Desmond find it? Then Assassin's Creed: Revelations came along (which was supposed to be a spin-off originally and not part of the main plot at all), and fixed this problem with the ending scene. Basically, that's called a 'recovery' :)

And this was all I'm saying. Right now there are no contradictions (but there are possible logical fallacies, all which can be justified, but still...) and all that's because stuff right now is not the same as it was originally intended. Not that it's worth complaining or arguing about, but I just find interesting to note that :)

PS. And before people go saying 'but Corey May stated that the whole plot outline has stayed the same throughout the years', I'm not saying that the big picture has changed, just the details. Desmond always would find a vault where there's a Piece of Eden, that's why in both AC1 and AC2 there are maps of Vaults/PoEs, but in the end it could be any Apple. Thanks to Brotherhood - it's Ezio's Apple.

X--GameA--X
03-17-2012, 01:53 AM
I didn't accuse. Didn't you see the "?" mark? i was asking you guys if you though it true or not.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-17-2012, 04:14 AM
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4517322551790051&id=20717fc884387d034ec4ce8d1d04d760

Calvarok
03-17-2012, 04:30 AM
Remember how he suggested to Maria to tell people he sent it to Cyprus? I guess that might explain why it's implied he brought it there. We don't even know how Ezio's apple got to cyprus. We assumed that it was already there, but what if it was just a dropoff point? After all, Cyprus got retaken by the Templars and was presumably still in that state by Ezio's time. They might have found it somewhere else and brought it there.

So with all that cleared up, what WAS the apple that Abstergo destroyed in the Denver incident? Or did Abstergo eventually find Altair's apple after all? That's actually a possiblity, you know. Maybe Ezio didn't hide the seals well enough.

Lonesoldier2012
03-17-2012, 06:40 AM
Smh at the amount of failure in this thread...

LightRey
03-17-2012, 09:27 AM
Remember how he suggested to Maria to tell people he sent it to Cyprus? I guess that might explain why it's implied he brought it there. We don't even know how Ezio's apple got to cyprus. We assumed that it was already there, but what if it was just a dropoff point? After all, Cyprus got retaken by the Templars and was presumably still in that state by Ezio's time. They might have found it somewhere else and brought it there.

So with all that cleared up, what WAS the apple that Abstergo destroyed in the Denver incident? Or did Abstergo eventually find Altair's apple after all? That's actually a possiblity, you know. Maybe Ezio didn't hide the seals well enough.
He suggested it to Darim, not Maria. Maria was dead by then.

It was most likely Alta´r's apple that was destroyed in the Denver accident as Lucy refers to that apple as "the apple from Masyaf".


Well, now that AC:R has been released, there is NO contradiction, BUT. The only saving grace for this situation to not be a contradiction is that nothing is actually STATED in previous games, just implied.

In Codex pages found in ACII, Altair says that he sealed his Apple in the treasury. It is not stated directly that the treasury is on Cyprus, however it is heavily implied - also IIRC Bloodlines' plot reinforces the thought (and also that it was hidden in the treasury on Cyprus is mentioned on the AC wiki, listing AC2 as a source...). By the way, judging by Altair's codex - Genghis Khan's invasion happened AFTER he sealed the Apple away (the pages are numbered for a reason, right?).

Anyway. What I'm saying is: originally the Apple on Cyprus was supposed to be Altair's apple. It wasn't stated directly, but it was implied. That actually was what everybody thought at the time. Then AC:Brotherhood was released. And everybody noted the contradiction with the Apples: if Ezio had Altair's apple which was destroyed in the accident, then how did Desmond find it? Then Assassin's Creed: Revelations came along (which was supposed to be a spin-off originally and not part of the main plot at all), and fixed this problem with the ending scene. Basically, that's called a 'recovery' :)

And this was all I'm saying. Right now there are no contradictions (but there are possible logical fallacies, all which can be justified, but still...) and all that's because stuff right now is not the same as it was originally intended. Not that it's worth complaining or arguing about, but I just find interesting to note that :)

PS. And before people go saying 'but Corey May stated that the whole plot outline has stayed the same throughout the years', I'm not saying that the big picture has changed, just the details. Desmond always would find a vault where there's a Piece of Eden, that's why in both AC1 and AC2 there are maps of Vaults/PoEs, but in the end it could be any Apple. Thanks to Brotherhood - it's Ezio's Apple.

Don't be ridiculous. They had it planned all along. Hell, they had ACR planned all along.

Farlander1991
03-17-2012, 11:46 AM
Don't be ridiculous. They had it planned all along. Hell, they had ACR planned all along.

Beg your pardon, but it is you who is being ridiculous here. This happens ALL THE TIME. Plans change. Even when the general plans remain the same, the details always change. That's just the way a development of a series go, be it a set of films, games, TV series, etc. Hell, even not of a series, but of a single stand-alone movie/game/whatever. And there's NOTHING wrong with that. That just happens, and I find it interesting to try and find these things.

PS. Oh, and the statement that 'ACR was planned all along' is simply not true, as ACR was originally a 3DS spin-off 'Lost Legacy', meaning your only argument as to why this tiny detail with the apples was planned all along does not yet have a ground to stand on and can't be considered stronger than my valid observations of ACII. :p

EDIT: PSS. And really, this is NOT worth arguing about anyway. It's like trying to argue that Darth Vader was always supposed to be Luke's father and Leia was always supposed to be Luke's sister... which they weren't. Darth Vader and Luke's father were separate characters at first, as well as Luke and Leia weren't siblings. Doesn't change a thing. They are now. It's just something of interest.

Poodle_of_Doom
03-17-2012, 12:35 PM
EDIT: PSS. And really, this is NOT worth arguing about anyway. It's like trying to argue that Darth Vader was always supposed to be Luke's father and Leia was always supposed to be Luke's sister... which they weren't. Darth Vader and Luke's father were separate characters at first, as well as Luke and Leia weren't siblings. Doesn't change a thing. They are now. It's just something of interest.

To argue this one simple point your attempting to make: Even after 40 years of Star Wars, George Lucas is still changing the plot line, and tweaking it a little bit. Why? Well, in a recent interview, he was never allowed to release the film the way he wanted to, and had to alter his scripts a lot. If he were allowed to get his way, he would of made two movies instead of three. Constant change isn't always better, nor does it mean that the present plot line got better.

BeCk41
03-17-2012, 01:38 PM
I liked the ending of Revelations, I think it gave closure to us, Ezio and the whole story, so now we get to focus on someone else. And I think that the video they played at the end reminded me a lot of the first Superman movie, didn't it? I mean their planet being destroyed and the baby being held? I mean, come on! xP

Farlander1991
03-17-2012, 02:17 PM
To argue this one simple point your attempting to make: Even after 40 years of Star Wars, George Lucas is still changing the plot line, and tweaking it a little bit. Why? Well, in a recent interview, he was never allowed to release the film the way he wanted to, and had to alter his scripts a lot. If he were allowed to get his way, he would of made two movies instead of three. Constant change isn't always better, nor does it mean that the present plot line got better.

I don't fully understand what you're trying to argue, because you don't contradict what I'm saying, and I actually agree with you. I would even add to what you've said: constant change (especially forced one) not only isn't always better, it's almost always disastrous. Lucas already has ruined some really awesome scenes, like the end of RotJ, with Vader's 'Noooo!' Turned one of the most emotional scenes of the trilogy in one of the cheesiest ones... There comes a time when you have to let things go. Which, coincidentally, is also the point that AC:R's ending makes :D

Poodle_of_Doom
03-18-2012, 04:32 PM
You were arguing for the way things are now, and that there's no point in becoming over zealous about those critiques. I'm arguing that there is. There's a big difference.