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View Full Version : Those of you that think America is going to be glorified in AC3, did you play AC:B?



E-Zekiel
03-02-2012, 04:54 AM
I'm just curious. Because, having played AC2 and AC:B, I can't help but notice that America is actually portrayed in a very dark light. Basically as a conspiracy, from the very start, to find new means of controlling a population. Not through religion, but through money. Of course, you had to do the puzzles in order to piece this together.

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't disagree with some of the fears you guys have on your run-of-the-mill-WEWT-AMERICA!-YEAH! type game, and do most certainly think that it's totally overdone. My initial reaction was along these same lines, but then I got to thinking about AC2 and AC: Brotherhood. Now with that in mind, this can be a potentially mind-blowing storyline simply because it could be done from the TOTALLY OPPOSITE corner that most games approach it from.

But this is the route I think AC3 is going to go. Something along the lines of initially supporting America in its fight against the British power grab, but then as the protagonist delves into the secrets of America, realizing that its long term plans are truly no better. This especially fits if the protagonist, as many suspect, will be coming from some sort of Amerindian background - because we all know just how hard they got screwed by America. Although now most of the small number of remaining ones are obscenely rich off of casinos...It still doesn't really make up for having such a small population. (joking! Obviously their tragic history has still not really been made up for :( )


Anyway. If you don't really recall some of the stuff regarding America, I'd advise replaying some AC2 and AC:B puzzles, or looking them up on Youtube. It was a little more focused in AC:B. I'm looking forward to seeing how they do this.

The13Doctors
03-02-2012, 05:00 AM
George Washington Is A Templar, the Colonist are probably too.

Americans are the antagonist this time.

Yay.

Jexx21
03-02-2012, 05:03 AM
Where the hell are you getting the Washington is a Templar?

I'd fully support you if there were (in-game) facts to back that up, but there aren't.

Radman500
03-02-2012, 05:04 AM
the main character is not full native american, well at least from the looks of him

he looks more half-white, half native american... which imo would make more sense then just full on native....

E-Zekiel
03-02-2012, 05:07 AM
Where the hell are you getting the Washington is a Templar?

I'd fully support you if there were (in-game) facts to back that up, but there aren't.



One of the AC:B puzzles pegs him as a templar.


Where the hell are you getting the Washington is a Templar?

I'd fully support you if there were (in-game) facts to back that up, but there aren't.

I think you're correct. Was the same thing I thought when I looked at him.

Voltige2011
03-02-2012, 05:08 AM
I like this way of thinking. Still not making any opinions until I see a demo though.
The only thing better than a fist-fight with the pope is a fist-fight with the Founding Fathers.

Jexx21
03-02-2012, 05:09 AM
The AC:B puzzle pegs him as someone who has had an Apple of Eden.

Possession with an apple of eden =/= Templar

E-Zekiel
03-02-2012, 05:17 AM
The AC:B puzzle pegs him as someone who has had an Apple of Eden.

Possession with an apple of eden =/= Templar


Ah, yeah, you're right. But at the same time, they've been gathering more and more of them over history. So, could be :p

apresmode
03-02-2012, 05:20 AM
I think OP is mainly right, but to say that most Native Americans nowadays are obscenely rich is absurd. Native Americans are quite possibly the worst off ethnic group in America in terms of poverty and poor education. Sure there are some that have profited, but the majority of people do not feel that wealth.

E-Zekiel
03-02-2012, 05:23 AM
That was intended as a joke. meant no offense. I'll amend my OP to reflect that more clearly

Jexx21
03-02-2012, 05:25 AM
Ah, yeah, you're right. But at the same time, they've been gathering more and more of them over history. So, could be :p

George Washington did end up passing the Apple of Eden down the line of Presidents.

And there were Templar Presidents (FDR for example). But I thing Washington passed it down hoping that the leaders would use it for fighting control and keeping Free will, or what Altiar did, and only use it for knowledge.

Ultimately, I don't think that Washington is a Templar, because the rumors said that the Assassin communicates with Washington a lot, and the rumors have been true so far.

De Filosoof
03-02-2012, 05:28 AM
That was intended as a joke. meant no offense. I'll amend my OP to reflect that more clearly
Alright then it's cool... I just wanted to comment on it because that's not really nice to say. There are some nice documentaries about it, you should watch it. Very sad.
I totally agree with you how AC3 should be. :).

De Filosoof
03-02-2012, 05:32 AM
It would make a great and unique story in gaming history :)

FilipinoNinja67
03-02-2012, 05:39 AM
I'm just curious. Because, having played AC2 and AC:B, I can't help but notice that America is actually portrayed in a very dark light. Basically as a conspiracy, from the very start, to find new means of controlling a population. Not through religion, but through money. Of course, you had to do the puzzles in order to piece this together.

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't disagree with some of the fears you guys have on your run-of-the-mill-WEWT-AMERICA!-YEAH! type game, and do most certainly think that it's totally overdone. My initial reaction was along these same lines, but then I got to thinking about AC2 and AC: Brotherhood. Now with that in mind, this can be a potentially mind-blowing storyline simply because it could be done from the TOTALLY OPPOSITE corner that most games approach it from.

But this is the route I think AC3 is going to go. Something along the lines of initially supporting America in its fight against the British power grab, but then as the protagonist delves into the secrets of America, realizing that its long term plans are truly no better. This especially fits if the protagonist, as many suspect, will be coming from some sort of Amerindian background - because we all know just how hard they got screwed by America. Although now most of the small number of remaining ones are obscenely rich off of casinos...It still doesn't really make up for having such a small population. (joking! Obviously their tragic history has still not really been made up for :( )




Anyway. If you don't really recall some of the stuff regarding America, I'd advise replaying some AC2 and AC:B puzzles, or looking them up on Youtube. It was a little more focused in AC:B. I'm looking forward to seeing how they do this.

Yes! Right now im taking a college course class on human geography and we just had a lecture on how countries like the USA and Italy (part of the core), take advantage of countries like Ethiopia (periphery). Watch this long video called "Black Gold- Wake Up and Smell the Coffee" and tell me that we arent trying to repress them from reaching a fully developed status. We send them food by using billions of tax payer dollars that we could be using to pump actual money in their economy by paying them fairly...

Edit: i went way off topic... All i was trying to say was that America isnt the perfect nation and theres plenty ubi could use to make America the bad guy which would be really interesting...

pirate1802
03-02-2012, 05:43 AM
Possession of an apple doesn't automatically make someone a Templar. Altair too had an apple for a significant amount of time.

UmIsThisThingOn
03-02-2012, 05:54 AM
George Washington Is A Templar, the Colonist are probably too.

Americans are the antagonist this time. I get to kill them in game.

Yay.

I wouldn't say all the antagonists will be American, since the cover art shows The Assassin killing what appears to be a Redcoat (British).

jmk1999
03-02-2012, 05:56 AM
George Washington Is A Templar, the Colonist are probably too.

Americans are the antagonist this time. I get to kill them in game.

Yay.
there are a number of americans on this forum... myself included... please show respect to others or take your negativity somewhere else.

LintonMildone
03-02-2012, 06:00 AM
Queen Elizabeth, Joan D'Arc, Houdini are example of individuals who used the apple for themselves yet are not aware of the existance of both orders. Remember Sanvorola? Sure he inslaved Florence but he wasn't a templar. George Washington just might be the complete opposite and might be using the apple to empower freedom just like one of you said so I guess we won't be sure till we expierence the truth for ourselves.

FilipinoNinja67
03-02-2012, 06:08 AM
there are a number of americans on this forum... myself included... please show respect to others or take your negativity somewhere else.

I think he will be very sad when he finds out he will be playing as a true american and will be going against british colonists that settled in america and not actual americans.

The13Doctors
03-02-2012, 06:08 AM
there are a number of americans on this forum... myself included... please show respect to others or take your negativity somewhere else.

Nah, I'm good. There's been no problem with killing Saracens, Crusaders, Conspirators, the Borgia, the Ottoman and Byzantines, now I have no problem taking out some Redcoats and Colonists.

Maybe you should just get off your high horse, I'm doing quite fine here.

Anyways, to UmlsThisThingOn, yeah I think it will be like AC1 where there will be good and bad people in both sides, I just felt like mentioning the Colonists because I will enjoy it.

I think the Assassins are going to be adamant on the war and have no side, fighting corrupt people on both ends. The protagonist being Native helps that theory as it isn't 100% biased towards any side.


I think he will be very sad when he finds out he will be playing as a true american and will be going against british colonists that settled in america and not actual americans.

Yeah I will, haha. Here's hoping my theory is true and there are two factions like in ACR.

JumpInTheFire13
03-02-2012, 06:13 AM
Nah, I'm good. There's been no problem with killing Saracens, Crusaders, Conspirators, the Borgia, the Ottoman and Byzantines, now I have no problem taking out some Redcoats and Colonists.

Maybe you should just get off your high horse, I'm doing quite fine here.
*claps*

jmk1999
03-02-2012, 06:37 AM
Nah, I'm good. There's been no problem with killing Saracens, Crusaders, Conspirators, the Borgia, the Ottoman and Byzantines, now I have no problem taking out some Redcoats and Colonists.

Maybe you should just get off your high horse, I'm doing quite fine here.
i'm actually referring to the underlying negative vibe of your post which was clearly anti-american... and therefore strictly forbidden in regards to lack of respect you're showing towards other members of this forum, as well as revealing your obvious prejudice towards america. now if you continue to wish to argue this matter, i'll be more than happy to give you a break from forums in exchange ever-so witty retorts.

twenty_glyphs
03-02-2012, 06:49 AM
AC2 and Brotherhood's puzzles do not portray America as evil, they portray Templars and individuals as evil, many who happened to be Americans. Brotherhood especially deals with this a lot, and it is by no means only describing America. The Brotherhood puzzles show that the Templars and Abstergo created capitalism, not that the grand scheme of America was to create capitalism and push it on the world. Brotherhood's puzzles show Margaret Thatcher of England colluding with the likes of British Petroleum to overthrow the Russian government, as well as Templar interference in countries' revolutions around the world. Lyndon Johnson is shown to likely be a Templar, but never is it stated that America itself was founded as part of a Templar plot. The Templars and Abstergo are bigger than just America, and they are from countries across the world.

I always assumed that George Washington was a Templar from The Truth puzzles, but that's still inconclusive. The only thing shown is that he had an Apple of Eden. The only other clue is that the glyph he appears in is titled "64 Squares", after chess, and that he appears with Queen Elizabeth and Napoleon. That makes him look more like a Templar, but it's still not proof. We'll just have to wait and see. I think he would make a poor antagonist, especially since he is considered such a hero by history. Also, what kind of victory can there be when Washington goes on to live a successful life and become one of the fathers of America? About the only thing we know for sure in the AC universe is that George Washington had an Apple, and it appeared to get passed down from President to President. We know FDR had it, though not what his affiliations were, and we know JFK eventually had it. He certainly was no friend of the Templars, since they had him assassinated for his Apple.

For those worried that AC3 will simply be a glorification of America, I point you to AC1, AC2, ACB and ACR. Did AC1 hit you over the head with how great Syria was? How fantastic the Holy Land was? Did AC2 or ACB push Italian nationalism on you or shove Renaissance ideals down your throat? Did ACR insult your country by saying that the Ottoman Empire was the best civilization ever? The answer is no. All of the previous games were in fantastic locations and time periods, with rich cultures and interesting characters. But at no time did they go overboard trying to say how great those places were. They were simply the backdrop for a story of intrigue to play out. Why would you think an American Revolution setting would be any different? Especially knowing the style of the brand is to show the shades of grey in history and have a certain moral ambiguity. Besides, why anyone would think a team of developers made up of primarily Canadian-born people, living and working in Canada, would try to push American patriotism on you is beyond me. If anything, companies go out of their way to remove unique American aspects from a lot of entertainment offerings these days in order to better appeal to the international market, at the expense of insulting some Americans.

The13Doctors
03-02-2012, 06:52 AM
i'm actually referring to the underlying negative vibe of your post which was clearly anti-american... and therefore strictly forbidden in regards to lack of respect you're showing towards other members of this forum, as well as revealing your obvious prejudice towards america. now if you continue to wish to argue this matter, i'll be more than happy to give you a break from forums in exchange ever-so witty retorts.

My "prejudice on America" is my own business, it's cool you don't share my thoughts, doesn't mean I was disrespectful to anyone. The fact that there are Americans in this forum has nothing to do with what I said in regards to the game.

I did come on a bit too strong maybe, my brain is getting tired and I am simply getting to the point, I did not direct my post to any other members in this forum at all. I'm sorry that I apparently offended you with my opinions but I did not lack any respect towards anyone.

Radman500
03-02-2012, 06:54 AM
is the main character

Full Native American

or half native american, half european

The13Doctors
03-02-2012, 06:56 AM
is the main character

Full Native American

or half native american, half european

I think he will be half and half. It seems like it.

Radman500
03-02-2012, 06:57 AM
I think he will be half and half. It seems like it.

plus i think it would make more sense, for him to be half, then full.... well at least imo

twenty_glyphs
03-02-2012, 06:57 AM
My "prejudice on America" is my own business, it's cool you don't share my thoughts, doesn't mean I was disrespectful to anyone. The fact that there are Americans in this forum has nothing to do with what I said in regards to the game.

I did come on a bit too strong maybe, my brain is getting tired and I am simply getting to the point, I did not direct my post to any other members in this forum at all. I'm sorry that I apparently offended you with my opinions but I did not lack any respect towards anyone.

Sure, the other AC games had you killing people of other cultures. But saying "I get to kill [insert group of people here]. Yay" will generally be taken as disrespectful to that group of people, whoever they are. But I think you may be missing the fact that dom1999 is not on a high horse, he is merely trying to remind you to follow the forum rules before he has to ban you. You know, since it says "Moderator" under his screen name.

The13Doctors
03-02-2012, 07:02 AM
Sure, the other AC games had you killing people of other cultures. But saying "I get to kill [insert group of people here]. Yay" will generally be taken as disrespectful to that group of people, whoever they are. But I think you may be missing the fact that dom1999 is not on a high horse, he is merely trying to remind you to follow the forum rules before he has to ban you. You know, since it says "Moderator" under his screen name.
A: I know, as I said, I'm getting tired, I didn't mean to imply it like that, implications were taken wrong.
B: Didn't even notice it was a Mod, not much of a difference though, I will be sure to defend my argument regardless of the power of a person.

I'm most likely going to get banned for it, as the Mod doesn't agree and probably has something against me at this point, it's worth speaking my mind.

C: I didn't mean to disrespect anyone.

LordWolv
03-02-2012, 07:21 AM
I'm just curious. Because, having played AC2 and AC:B, I can't help but notice that America is actually portrayed in a very dark light. Basically as a conspiracy, from the very start, to find new means of controlling a population. Not through religion, but through money. Of course, you had to do the puzzles in order to piece this together.

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't disagree with some of the fears you guys have on your run-of-the-mill-WEWT-AMERICA!-YEAH! type game, and do most certainly think that it's totally overdone. My initial reaction was along these same lines, but then I got to thinking about AC2 and AC: Brotherhood. Now with that in mind, this can be a potentially mind-blowing storyline simply because it could be done from the TOTALLY OPPOSITE corner that most games approach it from.

But this is the route I think AC3 is going to go. Something along the lines of initially supporting America in its fight against the British power grab, but then as the protagonist delves into the secrets of America, realizing that its long term plans are truly no better. This especially fits if the protagonist, as many suspect, will be coming from some sort of Amerindian background - because we all know just how hard they got screwed by America. Although now most of the small number of remaining ones are obscenely rich off of casinos...It still doesn't really make up for having such a small population. (joking! Obviously their tragic history has still not really been made up for :( )


Anyway. If you don't really recall some of the stuff regarding America, I'd advise replaying some AC2 and AC:B puzzles, or looking them up on Youtube. It was a little more focused in AC:B. I'm looking forward to seeing how they do this.
You make very good points, and because of course we have no gameplay information or footage whatsoever at the moment, my opinion on the glorification is but an opinion. It depends on who we play as, and who is seen as good and who bad. Obviously, the character will be part of the assassins and will not take a direct side, but it will have to give off an 'air' of goodies vs. baddies. I think that just by flying the flag on the box is glorification, but of course wouldn't be a problem to me as long as it stays at that low level.

Thank you for this thread, very interesting.

jmk1999
03-02-2012, 08:31 AM
A: I know, as I said, I'm getting tired, I didn't mean to imply it like that, implications were taken wrong.
B: Didn't even notice it was a Mod, not much of a difference though, I will be sure to defend my argument regardless of the power of a person.

I'm most likely going to get banned for it, as the Mod doesn't agree and probably has something against me at this point, it's worth speaking my mind.

C: I didn't mean to disrespect anyone.
clearly you don't know me all that well since you're still pretty new to the forum. i take no pride in banning anyone, but i will if continued violation of forum policy occurs. when you register an account here, you agree to the terms set forth by ubisoft. keep that in mind and i have no beef with you. just because i'm american doesn't make a lick of difference on where i stand on other people's opinions of my country. i merely wish to prevent issues from arising, regardless of motive. i don't wish to argue this matter any further. if you feel you're gonna get banned for something, you have no one but yourself to blame for that.

LordWolv
03-02-2012, 08:36 AM
clearly you don't know me all that well since you're still pretty new to the forum. i take no pride in banning anyone, but i will if continued violation of forum policy occurs. when you register an account here, you agree to the terms set forth by ubisoft. keep that in mind and i have no beef with you. just because i'm american doesn't make a lick of difference on where i stand on other people's opinions of my country. i merely wish to prevent issues from arising, regardless of motive. i don't wish to argue this matter any further. if you feel you're gonna get banned for something, you have no one but yourself to blame for that.
That with the fact dom is ridiculously awesome.

YuurHeen
03-02-2012, 09:20 AM
im thinking it will be more like ac1's crusaders. you dont pick a side and both sides have templers you kill.

Mr_Shade
03-02-2012, 11:44 AM
Guys,


While I love the fact you have wild ideas, let's not start blurring the lines between ideas and anti Americanism - we don't want to have to lock threads..


I suggest people do as Dom suggests...

De Filosoof
03-02-2012, 02:16 PM
Sure, the other AC games had you killing people of other cultures. But saying "I get to kill [insert group of people here]. Yay" will generally be taken as disrespectful to that group of people, whoever they are. But I think you may be missing the fact that dom1999 is not on a high horse, he is merely trying to remind you to follow the forum rules before he has to ban you. You know, since it says "Moderator" under his screen name.

What's up what all this American patriotism? I'm a dutch guy and i would LOVE to kill some corrupt people from my own country in-game.
And you can't deny that America's history isn't pretty, with a lot of sick and corrupt **** going on, just like the dutch have a ****ed up history.
Even today America is trying to exploit as many countries they can. You can't blame us for pointing this out. You should blame the corrupt people leading your country for turning such a beautiful land into a freakin' capitalist wasteland. That's also what i'm doing here in my own country. Don't be too patriotic about your country...You are just coincidentally born there. If you were born in Iraq there's a big chance you were proud of that country too. It's important to stay realistic.

The13Doctors
03-02-2012, 02:18 PM
What's up what all this American patriotism? I'm a dutch guy and i would LOVE to kill some corrupt people from my own country in-game.
And you can't deny that America's history isn't pretty, with a lot of sick and corrupt **** going on, just like the dutch have a ****ed up history.
Even today America is trying to exploit as many countries they can. You can't blame us for pointing this out. You should blame the corrupt people leading your country for turning such a beautiful land into a freakin' capitalist wasteland. That's also what i'm doing here in my own country. Don't be too patriotic about your country...You are just coincidentally born there. If you were born in Iraq there's a big chance you were proud of that country too. It's important to stay realistic.

Grazie

D.I.D.
03-02-2012, 02:23 PM
What's up what all this American patriotism? I'm a dutch guy and i would LOVE to kill some corrupt people from my own country in-game.
And you can't deny that America's history isn't pretty, with a lot of sick and corrupt **** going on, just like the dutch have a ****ed up history.
Even today America is trying to exploit as many countries they can. You can't blame us for pointing this out. You should blame the corrupt people leading your country for turning such a beautiful land into a freakin' capitalist wasteland. That's also what i'm doing here in my own country. Don't be too patriotic about your country...You are just coincidentally born there. If you were born in Iraq there's a big chance you were proud of that country too. It's important to stay realistic.

I feel the same way but I can see why, even said as a joke, cheering about "getting to kill Americans" is likely to be against forum rules.

If someone had sounded jubilant about getting to kill Turkish people in the last game, they would be likely to get a warning too (if not an immediate ban)

zerocooll21
03-02-2012, 02:25 PM
You should blame the corrupt people leading your country for turning such a beautiful land into a freakin' capitalist wasteland.

Easy killer, there isn't a whole lot "we" can do over here about it. Besides, pointing fingers never gets anything done.

Back on topic, lets not turn this into political debate.

De Filosoof
03-02-2012, 02:26 PM
True:) But i think the one who said that was exited because it's very rare in videogames.

The13Doctors
03-02-2012, 02:29 PM
True:) But i think the one who said that was exited because it's very rare in videogames.

Yes.

zerocooll21
03-02-2012, 02:31 PM
True:) But i think the one who said that was exited because it's very rare in videogames.

Hahahaha really?? I had no idea, I really only play AC ;)

The13Doctors
03-02-2012, 02:37 PM
Only ever portrayed as heroes, this would be a nice change.

zerocooll21
03-02-2012, 02:40 PM
Only ever portrayed as heroes, this would be a nice change.

Interesting, I never paid attention but again I rarely play video games.

Is the majority of the Video gaming industry based in America?

Assassin_M
03-02-2012, 02:51 PM
I do not intend to appear as nosy but any sentence that goes like this "Yea, I get to kill {Group/faction/Civilization}" is bound to stir racist arguments..
So lets just all grow up and remain on topic..
America is in no way being glorified in this game, and the reasons are stated in previous posts here; Every civilization has a History filled with heroism, patriotism, Corruption and blood..
So if we`re going to go around saying that america had nothing interesting during its history is just insulting, although im not american and in no way endorse america..
Im just a video gamer who views games based on potential, atmosphere and interest..
The American Revolution is very interesting, the setting is very different from what we`re used to in previous installments, combine that with a 3 year Dev time and "hopefully" we get the best game in the series..

zerocooll21
03-02-2012, 02:55 PM
I do not intend to appear as nosy but any sentence that goes like this "Yea, I get to kill {Group/faction/Civilization}" is bound to stir racist arguments..
So lets just all grow up and remain on topic..
America is in no way being glorified in this game, and the reasons are stated in previous posts here; Every civilization has a History filled with heroism, patriotism, Corruption and blood..
So if we`re going to go around saying that america had nothing interesting during its history is just insulting, although im not american and in no way endorse america..
Im just a video gamer who views games based on potential, atmosphere and interest..
The American Revolution is very interesting, the setting is very different from what we`re used to in previous installments, combine that with a 3 year Dev time and "hopefully" we get the best game in the series..

+1

For the record I didn't take offence to any of this, its a video game :p

kudos17
03-02-2012, 03:23 PM
I don't care if the Brits are portrayed as the "good" faction, "America" the bad. I've never had a lot of patriotism, doesn't matter what country. I believe people are all equal, and making fictional borders just breaks that equality. How many countries have fought to be "superior"? Ridiculous.

That said, I don't relish in killing Americans. I wouldn't relish in killing the British either. Y'know, how 'bout not relishing in killing anyone, yeah? That just seems like a good attitude in the step toward tolerance ;)

Assassins kill because they have to, not because they want to.

De Filosoof
03-02-2012, 04:32 PM
I don't care if the Brits are portrayed as the "good" faction, "America" the bad. I've never had a lot of patriotism, doesn't matter what country. I believe people are all equal, and making fictional borders just breaks that equality. How many countries have fought to be "superior"? Ridiculous.

That said, I don't relish in killing Americans. I wouldn't relish in killing the British either. Y'know, how 'bout not relishing in killing anyone, yeah? That just seems like a good attitude in the step toward tolerance ;)

Assassins kill because they have to, not because they want to.

Amen.. :)

luckyto
03-02-2012, 04:40 PM
I think a lot of people confuse what America has become with what the Founding Fathers and the colonists were and represented at that time period. Big fat frikkin difference.

brick177
03-02-2012, 04:44 PM
True:) But i think the one who said that was exited because it's very rare in videogames.

Not so sure. There are a lot of war games where you can play as the side opposing America.

Xstantin
03-02-2012, 04:54 PM
As a matter of fact, before bashing a certain group or a country people should get the correct info. I don't think some aknowledge that America was very different back then. Google or go to the library. I felt unsure about the setting of ACR and read about the Devshirme system, the Ottomans and Constantinople. American history might be as interesting if they put a spin on the Boston Massacre for example. Machiaveli, Richard the Lionheart or Mehmed II weren't saints as well.

brick177
03-02-2012, 04:57 PM
Obviously, everyone will have a different opinion of what constitutes "glorify" but I would add that since the US has seriously lost touch with its founding principles and in no way reflects those principles today, would it really be so bad to shine a spotlight on it? And say, "Remember when you guys were being economically exploited by a foreign super power and had foreign troops on your soil? Wasn't so great, was it?"

LordWolv
03-02-2012, 05:14 PM
Guys,


While I love the fact you have wild ideas, let's not start blurring the lines between ideas and anti Americanism - we don't want to have to lock threads..


I suggest people do as Dom suggests...
I agree. While I feel partially responsible for the original thread regarding the subject, I was careful not to be nationalist, and it's getting on that side for a few of you. I don't want to sound like a mod.. I just feel responsible.. :p

UrDeviant1
03-02-2012, 06:01 PM
I'v been reading your guys comments on various threads and gotta say, your bringing me round to the idea of the American Revolution. At first I too was upset at the thought of the game glorifying America, but came to my senses and realized that the Revolution Is a rich part of American history, and that what the founding fathers did Is something the Americans should feel good about and not be labeled nationalists. The game should also show the corrupt side, which was no doubt present, and still Is. But corruption Is everywhere, It's the world we live In, It's what happens when Man governs Itself. I think America Is obviously over used In video games, especially New York, but this time I think It will be different, we'll see a whole different America to what It has become. As a Brit, I'm also looking forward to see how we're portrayed In the game, hopefully not as some tea drinking, pompous pri**s with foot long mustache's.

zerocooll21
03-02-2012, 06:19 PM
As a Brit, I'm also looking forward to see how we're portrayed In the game, hopefully not as some tea drinking, pompous pri**s with foot long mustache's.

Wait you don't all drink tea? We tried it once here, ended up throwing it all out :p

UrDeviant1
03-02-2012, 06:26 PM
Wait you don't all drink tea? We tried it once here, ended up throwing it all out :p

Dude I hate tea! Im a coffee kinda guy

zerocooll21
03-02-2012, 06:34 PM
Dude I hate tea! Im a coffee kinda guy

hahaha I'm actually a big fan of both :D

LightRey
03-02-2012, 06:36 PM
Dude I hate tea! Im a coffee kinda guy

I really enjoy tea. D:

Never started drinking coffee. Too addictive.

jmk1999
03-02-2012, 06:45 PM
thanks for coming to an agreement... i hate to ban people for intolerance, ignorance, or prejudice beliefs. it's the most disgusting thing to see on these forums and i'm really not surprised it's arising now with the sudden spike in anti-american propaganda floating around the world over the past several years. american or not, prejudice and hatred is what it is. we are not all the same, despite what you think and we don't all support everything our country does... just as some of you feel about your own countries i'm sure. america is a great place considering we're given freedoms and luxuries to pursue our own lot in life and that's always been what the country's values have been built upon... and that is EXACTLY what the american revolution was built upon. is that so wrong? just because some hoity-toity politician or jerk tries to mess with that and impose our beliefs on another country doesn't make it right to lump the entire country in with that particular person or group of people. reveling in the killing or punishment of any sort of group for unjust reasoning is wrong. if that's how you feel, keep it OFF the forum and in the privacy of your own home. this forum will not stand for it and neither will i.

luckyto
03-02-2012, 07:30 PM
Obviously, everyone will have a different opinion of what constitutes "glorify" but I would add that since the US has seriously lost touch with its founding principles and in no way reflects those principles today, would it really be so bad to shine a spotlight on it? And say, "Remember when you guys were being economically exploited by a foreign super power and had foreign troops on your soil? Wasn't so great, was it?"

Precisely. What America was then and what it is now are total polar opposites. Most Americans don't even get it - I know, I live here. What we were then and what we fought for in the Revolution is exactly what the Creed is all about... individual freedom and the right to choose your own destiny and beliefs.

People are saying, "Don't glorify America." And I say, the ideals set forth in the Declaration of Independence are EXACTLY what needs to be glorified by all men and all races.

freddie_1897
03-02-2012, 08:32 PM
i don't care what country they're from, if they're templars,i'll kill them

E-Zekiel
03-02-2012, 08:53 PM
I think a lot of people confuse what America has become with what the Founding Fathers and the colonists were and represented at that time period. Big fat frikkin difference.

I used to think the same thing, but then I took an arrow in the knee.


Wait no


I used to think the same thing, but while they might have been rather open-minded for their time period, they still fall into categories that I don't support. Slave owners, sexists, abolitionists, etc.

Other random notes:

1. I love tea! But if you drink unsweetened tea you can go to hell :P Nah but seriously I don't get how you can drink unsweetened tea...but then some people drink decaffeinated coffee, hehe.

2. Some of you guys should play AC:B. There's a lot of, um, "anti-American" sentiment there, lol. Although I would call it "critical thinking", myself...being critical of your government/country, that it might reconsider itself and become better. :)



Anyway, further thoughts on the game:


So I'm really thinking that this American Revolution direction has a ton of potential, especially in light of AC1...Bad guys on all sides and the assassins are trying their best to make due. But, going along with the idea that the protagonist is either Amerindian or at least half Amerindian, I think he will likely, and sadly, meet a tragic end. Maybe not he, himself, but when he becomes an old man he will be very depressed :(

But at the same time, with it taking place during the American revolution, he may not see the worst of the worst when it comes to his people wiping out. Granted, Small Pox was HUUUUUUGE (and I SERIOUSLY HOPE THEY TOUCH ON THE ISSUE OF SMALL POX IN THE GAME, HINT HINT WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE), if we're right in our assessment of his origins, cause it'd be kind of....wrong if they didn't, or something. Inaccurate at least :p

Man, October seems so far away...

but at the same time I'm gonna have a busy **** year. Might get here sooner than I think. Moving into my own place, picking up two more heads (wife & kid)...gonna be busy busy, but this'll be one I majorly look forward to.


My 2012 list...Dragon Age 3, Prototype 2....ASSASSIN'S CREED III!
[list subject to change/growth!]

luckyto
03-02-2012, 10:18 PM
You always tackle discussions with sense of humor. A trait to be admired, good sir.

Looks like he'll be killing British and Americans... so no worries..

Morwien
03-02-2012, 10:58 PM
George Washington Is A Templar, the Colonist are probably too.

Americans are the antagonist this time.

Yay.

That would be cool ;)

The13Doctors
03-02-2012, 11:08 PM
4 pages later and it's still discussed. Wow.

I'll put more thought into my words next time...

SixKeys
03-02-2012, 11:25 PM
There's kind of a difference between saying "yay, I get to kill corrupt people who happen to be American" and "yay, I get to kill Americans". Replace "American" with any other nationality and the problem should be clear.

brick177
03-03-2012, 12:00 AM
First off, kind of disturbing that anyone would be excited about killing anyone. You can kill in any game, the mechanics and visuals of how and the story line involved with it is what makes Assassins Creed an amazing game, not WHO you get to kill. I mean, really?

E-Zekiel
03-03-2012, 12:03 AM
First off, kind of disturbing that anyone would be excited about killing anyone. You can kill in any game, the mechanics and visuals of how and the story line involved with it is what makes Assassins Creed an amazing game, not WHO you get to kill. I mean, really?

Someone googled one of my quotes! /eyes sig


That said, you guys are touchy. This is why I have no American patriotism. (note: I am American.)

De Filosoof
03-06-2012, 03:15 AM
First off, kind of disturbing that anyone would be excited about killing anyone. You can kill in any game, the mechanics and visuals of how and the story line involved with it is what makes Assassins Creed an amazing game, not WHO you get to kill. I mean, really?

Really. The people that you have to kill are a big part of the assassin's creed story line.
If you had to kill pacifistic people it wouldn't be an AC game :o.

pdw1992
03-09-2012, 11:07 PM
I think OP is mainly right, but to say that most Native Americans nowadays are obscenely rich is absurd. Native Americans are quite possibly the worst off ethnic group in America in terms of poverty and poor education. Sure there are some that have profited, but the majority of people do not feel that wealth.

Oh. They are easily the worst off ethnic group in America. It's probably because colonists pretty much screwed them over from the beginning. I think it was something like thirty million Native Americans have been killed since the colonists landed until like the late 1800's.

As far as this issue is concerned, as an American myself, I get what people are saying. A lot of media and pop culture (movies, games, music, clothing, etc.) has been Americanized. So, it's right to feel a little skeptical about the setting of this. But, as others have pointed out, it would be wiser to wait a little for them to pump out some actual gameplay before immediately assuming things. And, my guess is, they will feature a mission or something where Connor kills a colonial captain or something like that to ease fears.

It would also be good to remember that it is Ubisoft Montreal, not Ubisoft New York. So, as they point out in AC games, they have developers, programmers, writers, etc. from multiple ethnic backgrounds as well as religious faiths. Not only that, but AC III's creative director, Alex Hutchinson, is British himself.

Knowing all this (and if something is wrong about any of my information, please correct me) I would encourage patience and put a little trust into the fella's at Ubisoft. Thank you, and have a fantastic day (or night, depending on where you live)!

orangebionic
03-10-2012, 01:54 PM
Mt thoughts exactly like OP.

In brotherhood glyphs about Usa, shows it as a grim templar conspiracy to enslave the world by money, with great succes.

So i was surprised by choice of making revolutionaries as a positive protagonists, until assumed , that templars took over control of the country, years after war

dxsxhxcx
03-10-2012, 02:29 PM
I really hope we discover that Washington is a templar at the end and that this revolution was something made by the templars to take control of the country, seeing him using the assassins to win the war would be cool...

Kaiskune
03-10-2012, 10:28 PM
I cannot say I'm surprised that concerns are being put forward about the direction of AC3. The massacre of British Army soldiers in the trailer and the fact nearly every poster has the protagonist with the old stars and strips to his back puts me off buying the game. I've had enough of games portraying Americans as the white knights of the world. and that sentiment is growing rapidly across the consumer base

Its too early to say whether this up coming game will be a balanced story with a slight Bias towards one side or it will be so blatantly patriotic that Mel Gibson will bow down in reverence.
The Assassins have taken sides before, they sided with the Ottomans in the conquest of the Byzantine empire and they conspired with the Bolsheviks over the murder of the Romanov Dynasty. I can understand if the assassins side with the colonials but there better be a good reason for it

the fear is that the game will portray the American revolution as a whiter than white venture when quite frankly it wasn't. there were people on both sides that made a lot of money from the war and its aftermath... that and you still haven't paid up back for all that tea you wasted ¬.¬.

GeneralTrumbo
03-10-2012, 10:30 PM
They will glorify America cuz we r awesome. :)

Jexx21
03-10-2012, 11:14 PM
I cannot say I'm surprised that concerns are being put forward about the direction of AC3. The massacre of British Army soldiers in the trailer and the fact nearly every poster has the protagonist with the old stars and strips to his back puts me off buying the game. I've had enough of games portraying Americans as the white knights of the world. and that sentiment is growing rapidly across the consumer base

Its too early to say whether this up coming game will be a balanced story with a slight Bias towards one side or it will be so blatantly patriotic that Mel Gibson will bow down in reverence.
The Assassins have taken sides before, they sided with the Ottomans in the conquest of the Byzantine empire and they conspired with the Bolsheviks over the murder of the Romanov Dynasty. I can understand if the assassins side with the colonials but there better be a good reason for it

the fear is that the game will portray the American revolution as a whiter than white venture when quite frankly it wasn't. there were people on both sides that made a lot of money from the war and its aftermath... that and you still haven't paid up back for all that tea you wasted ¬.¬.

watch the gameinformer vids, they talk about stuff like this.

Jexx21
03-10-2012, 11:16 PM
It would also be good to remember that it is Ubisoft Montreal, not Ubisoft New York. So, as they point out in AC games, they have developers, programmers, writers, etc. from multiple ethnic backgrounds as well as religious faiths. Not only that, but AC III's creative director, Alex Hutchinson, is British himself.


Austrailian actually.

ShadowRage41
03-11-2012, 01:51 AM
I cannot say I'm surprised that concerns are being put forward about the direction of AC3. The massacre of British Army soldiers in the trailer and the fact nearly every poster has the protagonist with the old stars and strips to his back puts me off buying the game. I've had enough of games portraying Americans as the white knights of the world. and that sentiment is growing rapidly across the consumer base

Its too early to say whether this up coming game will be a balanced story with a slight Bias towards one side or it will be so blatantly patriotic that Mel Gibson will bow down in reverence.
The Assassins have taken sides before, they sided with the Ottomans in the conquest of the Byzantine empire and they conspired with the Bolsheviks over the murder of the Romanov Dynasty. I can understand if the assassins side with the colonials but there better be a good reason for it

the fear is that the game will portray the American revolution as a whiter than white venture when quite frankly it wasn't. there were people on both sides that made a lot of money from the war and its aftermath... that and you still haven't paid up back for all that tea you wasted ¬.¬.

Yeah that was really a bummer in The Mass Effect series, the Dragon Age series, Kingdoms of Amalur. And in Red Dead Redemption gosh it got old how they glorified the U.S gov. Oh yeah all the medal of honor games. especially the one in the Soviet Union during the German invasion. and yeah Rockstar has really put a pretty face on the United States with their GTA series... LOL

Every country has it's issues in history. However the War of independence is not one of the United States. What the Railroad did in conjunction with high ranking U.S military officers and politicians to the native Americans is a terrible legacy. the Civil war, slavery. ect. the Mafia influence, Segregation ect. All a terrible legacy. But in the midst of it all there were hero's as well. Like Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King J.R ect. I imagine if you look closely at every country you can find the good and bad.

“And what we students of history always learn is that the human being is a very complicated contraption and that they are not good or bad but are good and bad and the good comes out of the bad and the bad out of the good, and the devil take the hindmost.”
―Robert Penn Warren- All The King's Men