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View Full Version : The FLAK is annoying...



Luftcaca
08-23-2004, 12:45 PM
not ENNEMY flak, but FRIENDLY Flak

Im tired of being shot down by my own flak

I mean, why would the guns on the ground fire like hell if theres only 2 ennemy fighters over the airfield and already 12 friendly fighters after them??? Result, more casualties due to friendly flak than ennemies shot down...

The AI should be more selective, and certainly not firing when there is more friendly planes than ennemy planes in the air

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

wants flyable:

early 110's
IL-10
Pe-3

Luftcaca
08-23-2004, 12:45 PM
not ENNEMY flak, but FRIENDLY Flak

Im tired of being shot down by my own flak

I mean, why would the guns on the ground fire like hell if theres only 2 ennemy fighters over the airfield and already 12 friendly fighters after them??? Result, more casualties due to friendly flak than ennemies shot down...

The AI should be more selective, and certainly not firing when there is more friendly planes than ennemy planes in the air

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

wants flyable:

early 110's
IL-10
Pe-3

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2004, 01:52 PM
I agree with your outrage, but, sadly, those gunners have every reason to be nervous, and history is full of instances where planes were shot down by their own, even in combat over the field.

Keep jinking....and keep away from airbases if you're not taking off or landing, is all I can tell ya.

Da_Godfatha
08-23-2004, 02:00 PM
That is why it is the BEST WW2 flight sim. Alot of Freindly Fire about!! Just move on out of the FLAK zone and you should be safe. I know I do. Then when one is smoking from a FLAK hit, I swoop in for the kill (honorless, I know).

DaGodfatha http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Blutarski2004
08-23-2004, 02:06 PM
Luftcaca wrote:
The AI should be more selective, and certainly not firing when there is more friendly planes than ennemy planes in the air ...



..... George Preddy would have agreed with you.

BLUTARSKI

Luftcaca
08-23-2004, 02:18 PM
Guys, I know it happened, I mean that a plane was hit by a friendly ground flak shot

But Im not talking about a combat with 124 bombers at 5000m, with 32 Mustangs escorting the bombers and 24 190'S attacking the formation over Berlin

Im talking about these annoying, I should say totally STUPID missions when you see 2 Mig's without loadout attacking your airfield and staying there like idiots even if 8 109's are taking off

and the FLAK keep on firing at will even if the 109's took off, and we all know the results

Im sorry but I'd like to see ONE instance of that

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

wants flyable:

early 110's
IL-10
Pe-3

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2004, 03:28 PM
I'm here to tell ya friendly fire ack accidents happened at rooftop height over bases. Gunners were not very selective, silhouette ID was not their strong suit, and often they were very nervous (and for good reason). This happened a LOT in the Dutch East Indies, over Malta, actually EVERYWHERE.

Captain_Avatar
08-23-2004, 03:41 PM
I'd like to see some variablity. In some cases the gunners recognize you and withhold fire and in other cases they don't recognize you and blaze away in ignorance. That would make it more realistic.

Luftcaca
08-23-2004, 05:31 PM
hahahaahah

silhouette ID, WTF???

ok listen WELL

there are two planes that are attacking our airfield, two fighters WITHOUT loadouts (hahah)

ALERT!

"Two planes are attacking us!!!Fire at will while we prep the fighters for emergency take-off!"

ok WHILE the fighters are grounded, the Flak can fire WITHOUT risking to down a friendly plane
But tell me ONE GOOD REASON why the FLAK would continue to fire after the friendly planes took off??!?!?!?

I mean EVERYONE on the ground knows that friendly planes are taking off!!! Why do you talk to me about silhouette ID then?!?!? They shouldnt have to spot friendly or ennemy silhouettes since they should stop to fire when the planes took off

and besides, I read much about Allied Bombings over Berlin during 44
The Germans were sending waves of fighters and these waves were breaking when the bombers formation was about to enter an heavy flak zone. then another wave was coming to intercept the bombers when they were out of the heavy flak area.

and ANOTHER thing
Why does the hell break loose when me, ONLY me arrives above a Flak zone, alone in my lil fighter?
They fire at me like I was all by myself a formation of 300 Flying Fortresses.
I guess its their prob if they wanna waste 100000 shells to down an unidentified single fighter...

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

wants flyable:

early 110's
IL-10
Pe-3

VMF513_Sandman
08-24-2004, 05:20 AM
ff is more noticeable in this patch. looks like the ai is goin the 'golden bb' route just like the vc did in nam. even the vc would fire sam's in the middle of a furball and would tag some of their own

Da_Godfatha
08-24-2004, 09:05 AM
Maybe you peed-off the FLAK boys?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Or you have the Acme Bullet Magnet attached to your plane?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

Sorry Bro, I just had to. It does get annoying sometimes. That damn Golden BB rule sucks!!

DaGodfatha http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2004, 10:05 AM
Avatar, what you describe is what, in my experience, happens. I'm not always fired upon (or helped) by friendly AI if I'm in combat over base.

OldMan____
08-24-2004, 02:46 PM
I personaly destroy anything that fires at me.. enemy or friendly flak.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

LLv34_Stafroty
08-24-2004, 03:23 PM
Flak really is annoying, so is defencive fire from bombers. flak corrects its fire way too fast and accurate(light) and while heavy flak is able to set timer in fuses pretty fast too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif there is no delay when AI shoots at enemy planes, it makes corrections on deflections rightaway, like radar controlled automatic system http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

bomber gunners have same BUG, they are able to follow enemy AC with fire easily, no delay when target chanses direction, correction made instantly like radar controlled sys....
bit unrealistic.

some sources says that it was needed to hit some 23 times with 20mm cannon on B17 to bring it down, average, while with 30mm avg 4 hits were enought. in game its almost impossible to bring down planes out of reach from defencive fire, and if u go closer, u get hits right away, such accurate the gunners are.

dont understand why bomber fans cry for even better gunners for their AI crew. of course fighters had no problem to down single bomber without fightercover. now bombers are flying tanks which pepper all who dare to come nearby, killing many fighters before going down.

Rab03
08-25-2004, 01:00 AM
Such a nervous flak can be put to good use. One of the missions I like to play is my own scramble. Enemy approaching the airfield, and I must take off to intercept them. If things go bad, and my flight doesn't succeed to take off, I can reduce enemy numbers with keeping distance and flying directly over AA.

Also, during Bodenplate operation, very large percentage of the Luftwaffe losses was due to friendly fire. The operation was so secret that they "forgot" to inform many AA units that it's going to happen. AA units presumed that eery large formation of aircraft was hostile (!) and shot down many of LW planes.

See my skins at
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/JohnnyRab-SIG.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=Rab&ts=1069857387&comefrom=credits)

TooCool_12f
08-25-2004, 01:16 AM
flak never stop firing because of friendly planes in the mix. that's why fighters usually didn't follow enemy over flak-defended zones.

In FB, one thing is: the AI doesn't adjust lead properly. That's why, against enemy fighters, all you have to do is turn hard. They will never hit you. But that's also why the flak, shooting at one fighter, hits the plane behind: they simply don't take enough lead and their shells explode in the face of the pursuer

WOLFMondo
08-25-2004, 01:28 AM
I experianced the best example of freindly flak. On UKD I was flying along in a P47, wobbling like a pregnant whale, loaded down with bombs and rockets. I spy a BF109 making a dive on me. I had 4000m and was about 10k from my target so I open up the throttle and dive and pray, the escorts were way to far away to help.

The flak opens up and I watch the BF109 in my mirror. Its getting real close now and lining up on me. I was considering dropping my bombs and trying to dogfight (although I would have probably lost) but then I look up into the mirror where theres a huge puff of smoke and the shudder from the flak and the BF109 disintergrated from a direct hit!

Over the chat theres a 'WTF!'

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Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
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VMF513_Sandman
08-25-2004, 06:28 AM
if u really want to beat the flak at its own game, consider going nap of the earth and pop up out of nowhere to pop a cap in that 25mm before it can get a bead on u; but it would also be adviseable to make it the '1 pass and haul asss' type of run, or if u turn, the aaa is gonna have u for breakfast. i also seem to notice that the 88mm's are much less effective the closer u are to the dirt. 25mm more effective..all they need is that 'golden bb' and they got u smokin or a cripple.

ImpStarDuece
08-26-2004, 12:35 AM
Flak IS annoying, but thats a good thing.

Friendly flak, enemy flak, it doessnt matter.

A projectile on a ballistic path doesn't care what it hits.

yes the AI could be more selective but that is what sequels and patches are for. The game we have deals with flack quite well i feel.

Ground gunners were notorious for mis-identifying aircraft. Even on the D-Day fleet, where there was a specialist in aircraft identification aboard EVERY significant vessel with AA capability there were still low altitude, mis-identifications that resulted in friendly fighters being shdsot down. Evn P-38s were damaged on D-Day and they were chosen because their unique silhoutte made them the easiest fighter for AA gunners to identify.

I love the AA in thsi sim, now that i have a better graphics card. Last night i was escorting 18 Pe-2s over Kuban and German AA in one of the ports and ship born AA open up in SHEETS of fire. MGs, 20mm, 37mm, Quad 20mms, 88s all pumping out round after round into our formation. A slight pause in intensity as some 190s dove through our formation then up it comes again in waves of blue and yellow interspersed with the manacing black puffs from larger calibres. Dogfight descends from 3000m to 500m and im sweating bullets as tracers burn past me vertically AND horizontally. Score a kill, invert, dive down to the deck, hear a "pum,pum,pum" and my Yak starts to shudder with 20mm flak. Little white clouds puff ahead of me as i race along at sea level then spiral lower to give the gunners just that second less to track me. Made it back across the coast line and shudder into a landing, slipping w/ hard right rudder so i can keep my bird lined up down the run way. Only one kill and only 1 min of dogfighting but one of my best IL2 experiances, all thanks to flak

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.

VMF513_Sandman
08-28-2004, 08:54 AM
here's the surprize about setting up a flak defense....u dont need those laggy 'zsu's'. their the green or white-shell-shootin tank types. sure the spray-n-pray effect might be good to look at, but they are even easier to take out with hvar's than the 25 mils. they also dont have fire envelope as the 25's, allowing more time to set up the attack run. nothing screws up a fighter lined up on a bomb strike quicker than those 20/25mm's..and a few 'hidden' 88's for good measure. our base has 2x25mm rather close together on some outboard islands, 3 on each end of the runway in sandbags, a few 'camo'd' 88's, and some strategically placed ballons. if the flack dont get ya, the 88's or the wire's might. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

hobnail
08-28-2004, 06:47 PM
First British bomber "kill" of the war was a Bristol Blenheim that was potted by friendly AAA over SE England.

JaBo_HH--Gotcha
08-29-2004, 03:51 AM
The effect of friendly AAA fire can be greatly reduced if you don't try to turn after your enemy at speeds below 300km/h.

Very often our squadmates complain about frinedly aaa whereas I rarely if ever get hit.
After some time I got to the conlcusion taht as long you go fast and don't turn with your enemy at slow speeds you wont get hit. If you go slow the aaa targets the enemy, misses and will hit you following him 100m behind. Just my observation. !S!

http://www.g-c-p.de/sigbib/hh/gotcha.jpg

Willey
08-29-2004, 03:28 PM
It's very annoying http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=812108216&p=1

I really made it's marksmanship with AEP... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

It's just sad. It doesn't matter if there are 3 or 30 guns, lethality is just the same...

FutureAce
08-30-2004, 02:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TooCool_12f:
In FB, one thing is: the AI doesn't adjust lead properly. That's why, against enemy fighters, all you have to do is turn hard. They will never hit you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must be flying against rookie or average AI because when you fly against Ace enemies they will either pilot kill you with a .5 sec burst or tear you plane to shreds whenever they choose to fire from with whatever angle they think they have a shot from.