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jpledge
02-01-2012, 03:26 PM
Is Assasins creed heading the way of what the Documentary Revelations of the Pyramids is trying to reveal ?. The truth from ACR shows the solar flare destroying the world.
intersting and superb writing from the AC creators truely amazing, I dont think a computer game has ever engaged so much thought. thankyou


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmnnJytYjpM

Assassin_M
02-01-2012, 08:24 PM
I cannot believe this..
I actually watched all of it and about 30 minutes into it I was beginning to get bored because I knew all of the theories regarding the Architectural significance of the great Pyramid, but then it all became "WOW"
I always knew it, this cannot be coincidence..
It`s not coincidence, it just can`t be...... its coming..

LightRey
02-01-2012, 09:53 PM
I cannot believe this..
I actually watched all of it and about 30 minutes into it I was beginning to get bored because I knew all of the theories regarding the Architectural significance of the great Pyramid, but then it all became "WOW"
I always knew it, this cannot be coincidence..
It`s not coincidence, it just can`t be...... its coming..

The Abu Simbel temples are much more interesting than the Great Pyramid anyways.

jpledge
02-01-2012, 10:12 PM
Easter Island, Nazca, Ollantaytambo, Paratoari, Tassili n'Ajjer and Giza and more all in alignment. would fit in perfect with the AC story

Cant be a coincedence surely .

WOW


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95G44qE089M

LightRey
02-01-2012, 10:31 PM
Easter Island, Nazca, Ollantaytambo, Paratoari, Tassili n'Ajjer and Giza and more all in alignment. would fit in perfect with the AC story

Cant be a coincedence surely .

WOW


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95G44qE089M

In alignment with what exactly? I didn't watch the video.

jpledge
02-01-2012, 10:36 PM
In alignment with what exactly? I didn't watch the video.

They are all in alignment with eachother.

LightRey
02-01-2012, 10:43 PM
They are all in alignment with eachother.

you mean the're all on the same line? Well whoopty freaking doo. That means absolutely nothing.

jpledge
02-01-2012, 10:58 PM
you mean the're all on the same line? Well whoopty freaking doo. That means absolutely nothing.

with the ac story line? or the fact that they're in alignment which yes it means they're in a straight line. Dont you think watching it before commenting would help.

Assassin_M
02-01-2012, 11:08 PM
you mean the're all on the same line? Well whoopty freaking doo. That means absolutely nothing.
Sorry, Rey, We`r buddies and all, but you should watch the video before commenting..
trust me its worth it..

rileypoole1234
02-02-2012, 05:08 AM
This is one of the most amazing things I have ever watched. These are the types of things that make studying to become an archaeologist worth it.

LightRey
02-02-2012, 01:34 PM
Sorry, Rey, We`r buddies and all, but you should watch the video before commenting..
trust me its worth it..

No... it really isn't. I'm sorry but I've seen thousands of documentaries like this one and they all try to see more than there really is.

EscoBlades
02-02-2012, 02:45 PM
I'm settling down to watch this now. Thanks for the link.

jpledge
02-02-2012, 04:04 PM
This is one of the most amazing things I have ever watched. These are the types of things that make studying to become an archaeologist worth it.

Agreed fella, the last hour is truely eye opening. Good luck with your studies . The golden number theory cannot be coincedence, neither can the alignment of the structures ,easter island is spooky.

GLHS
02-02-2012, 04:55 PM
I've never been a believer of the December 2012 theory. I think it's stupid and all just people freaking out just like Y2K was. So that whole last part is just kinda "meh" for me. BUT, everything else was incredible, and absolutely cannot be a coincidence. It's so funny how I can't watch anything about this stuff, b/c my mind always just reverts back to the AC theory, but omg. I swear, it's like Ubisoft just watched this and went "d@mn, that'd be a good game!" Everything is really similar. I know they built the story off of conspiracy theories and all that, but that's just awesome how precise they actually are. It's seriously impossible for all of that to just be random, and something else has to be going on here. But the biggest problem I have with that is that would basically mean that literally everything we think we know about history, from evolution to human knowledge to technology, is wrong. We seriously have to be wrong about everything for this stuff to be true. That was one of the most interesting documentaries I've seen on the subject and it makes me appreciate Ubisoft and how much thought they really put into this story that much more. No game out there can say that their story is that deep, and that precise with history. None. Assassin's Creed has nothing less that my total support for as long as it's around. Thank you, Ubisoft.

LightRey
02-02-2012, 04:58 PM
Agreed fella, the last hour is truely eye opening. Good luck with your studies . The golden number theory cannot be coincedence, neither can the alignment of the structures ,easter island is spooky.

Trust me. It most definitely can be a coincidence and even if it's not, the real explanation is most likely far simpler than what you'd expect.

GLHS
02-02-2012, 05:03 PM
Trust me. It most definitely can be a coincidence and even if it's not, the real explanation is most likely far simpler than what you'd expect.

Dude, did you even watch it yet? Seriously, I'm like you and have seen numerous shows on the subject. I have heard many things, but didn't know half of the things it that documentary. Even if you don't believe it, you should still watch it. It's really interesting, and at the very least, you could say your thoughts on why you think certain way on the different ideas presented in it. It'll make you appreciate Ubisoft even more for their work. I'll bet you anything.

jpledge
02-02-2012, 05:14 PM
Trust me. It most definitely can be a coincidence and even if it's not, the real explanation is most likely far simpler than what you'd expect.

."None are so blind than those who refuse to see". whether it be true or not, its relation to the AC story is there for all to see.

jpledge
02-02-2012, 05:16 PM
I've never been a believer of the December 2012 theory. I think it's stupid and all just people freaking out just like Y2K was. So that whole last part is just kinda "meh" for me. BUT, everything else was incredible, and absolutely cannot be a coincidence. It's so funny how I can't watch anything about this stuff, b/c my mind always just reverts back to the AC theory, but omg. I swear, it's like Ubisoft just watched this and went "d@mn, that'd be a good game!" Everything is really similar. I know they built the story off of conspiracy theories and all that, but that's just awesome how precise they actually are. It's seriously impossible for all of that to just be random, and something else has to be going on here. But the biggest problem I have with that is that would basically mean that literally everything we think we know about history, from evolution to human knowledge to technology, is wrong. We seriously have to be wrong about everything for this stuff to be true. That was one of the most interesting documentaries I've seen on the subject and it makes me appreciate Ubisoft and how much thought they really put into this story that much more. No game out there can say that their story is that deep, and that precise with history. None. Assassin's Creed has nothing less that my total support for as long as it's around. Thank you, Ubisoft.

Could not have put it into better words myself ,thankyou.

GLHS
02-02-2012, 05:20 PM
Could not have put it into better words myself ,thankyou.

I've been getting that a lot lately. But yeah, maybe that was a little too mushy and heartfelt, but hey, I type what I think lol.

LightRey
02-02-2012, 06:09 PM
I'm halfway through now and I can honestly say that up till now this has been the biggest BS I have ever seen in my life. Not only do they rarely go in-depth on what the actual experts have to say (with each point they at best show one expert say one or 2 sentences, and they don't really get to share their thoughts), but at every turn they speak of some things that "cannot be coincidences", but fail to take the time to do any statistical analyses, or even give an actual reason why they think so. Not to mention they very often discard counterarguments without actually providing any reasons or significant evidence.

Furthermore this so-called "alignment" means nothing if they can't show that there aren't any similar structures around the world not on those lines. Anyone can draw a few random dots on a piece of paper and find a few that line up. That is a coincidence.

EDIT: I will happily take the time to go by each point they make in and explain why it is scientifically invalid when I'm finished watching. Do keep in mind that it will take a very long time to write everything down, because there is so very much I have to criticize.

GLHS
02-02-2012, 06:26 PM
I'm halfway through now and I can honestly say that up till now this has been the biggest BS I have ever seen in my life. Not only do they rarely go in-depth on what the actual experts have to say (with each point they at best show one expert say one or 2 sentences, and they don't really get to share their thoughts), but at every turn they speak of some things that "cannot be coincidences", but fail to take the time to do any statistical analyses, or even give an actual reason why they think so. Not to mention they very often discard counterarguments without actually providing any reasons or significant evidence.

Furthermore this so-called "alignment" means nothing if they can't show that there aren't any similar structures around the world not on those lines. Anyone can draw a few random dots on a piece of paper and find a few that line up. That is a coincidence.

EDIT: I will happily take the time to go by each point they make in and explain why it is scientifically invalid when I'm finished watching. Do keep in mind that it will take a very long time to write everything down, because there is so very much I have to criticize.

At least we got you to watch it :p

LightRey
02-02-2012, 06:27 PM
At least we got you to watch it :p

And you'll regret ever doing so.

jpledge
02-02-2012, 06:31 PM
I'm halfway through now and I can honestly say that up till now this has been the biggest BS I have ever seen in my life. Not only do they rarely go in-depth on what the actual experts have to say (with each point they at best show one expert say one or 2 sentences, and they don't really get to share their thoughts), but at every turn they speak of some things that "cannot be coincidences", but fail to take the time to do any statistical analyses, or even give an actual reason why they think so. Not to mention they very often discard counterarguments without actually providing any reasons or significant evidence.

Furthermore this so-called "alignment" means nothing if they can't show that there aren't any similar structures around the world not on those lines. Anyone can draw a few random dots on a piece of paper and find a few that line up. That is a coincidence.

EDIT: I will happily take the time to go by each point they make in and explain why it is scientifically invalid when I'm finished watching. Do keep in mind that it will take a very long time to write everything down, because there is so very much I have to criticize.

yah get your google search at the ready lol.

jpledge
02-02-2012, 06:39 PM
You see you cannot answer things that cannot be answered as they are a mystery .All you will be doing is laying down your own opinion ,no right ot wrong about it..Many of the experts on the doc do not have answers because they do not know themselves. The whole conspiracy world works on things that cannot be answered thats why they are so popular.

LightRey
02-02-2012, 07:33 PM
You see you cannot answer things that cannot be answered as they are a mystery .All you will be doing is laying down your own opinion ,no right ot wrong about it..Many of the experts on the doc do not have answers because they do not know themselves. The whole conspiracy world works on things that cannot be answered thats why they are so popular.

There are rights and wrongs about the way these things are determined. First of all this video is terribly biased. I cannot stress how extreme their violation of the scientific method is. I've finished watching now and if you wish I will write down everything, but that'd take a long time. I'd in fact much prefer we engage in a discussion, going by each point in a more "natural" way.

Anyways, I'm packing my bags, cuz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35TbGjt-weA

jpledge
02-02-2012, 08:02 PM
I seriously do not want your opinion as you made up your decision even before you watched it. You will only google it anyway because i highly doubt your an architect, historian, archaeologist or astronomer. Even the simple things in the doc regarding the building of the pyramids and that architects say that it would take centuries and that they wouldnt be able to do it today. but hey you know best. The architect who designed the millenium bridge in London doesnt understand how it can be done so accurately, but you can lol.

I have not said for a minute that i believe all is said in this documenatry and only started the topic regards to the AC story line and that this doc portrays that the ancients have left us a trail of breadcrumbs as it has been done to Desmond ,Altair and Ezio.

I think you are what we refer to in England as a "know it all"

LightRey
02-02-2012, 08:14 PM
I seriously do not want your opinion as you made up your decision even before you watched it. You will only google it anyway because i highly doubt your an architect, historian, archaeologist or astronomer. Even the simple things in the doc regarding the building of the pyramids and that architects say that it would take centuries and that they wouldnt be able to do it today. but hey you know best. The architect who designed the millenium bridge in London doesnt understand how it can be done so accurately, but you can lol.

I have not said for a minute that i believe all is said in this documenatry and only started the topic regards to the AC story line and that this doc portrays that the ancients have left us a trail of breadcrumbs as it has been done to Desmond ,Altair and Ezio.

I think you are what we refer to in England as a "know it all"

Actually, I'm an astronomy student and I don't need to argue whether they've got their facts straight. In fact I am quite sure that their sources check out, since I myself can confirm quite a few of them. However, I do very much contest the way they draw their conclusions. There is something called the Scientific Method, which is the very basis of acquiring and processing information in a logical way that eliminates bias and tries to determine the probability of a proposed theory. This Scientific Method is violated to an extreme extent by these people. That alone brings every single point they make in serious question.

The entire "documentary" (if that is what you could call it), is a huge load of assumptions and dogmas and evidences a great deal of Tunnel Vision on the part of the ones who made it.

Furthermore, if you do not wish to discuss it then that evidences that you are set in your ways, not me. At least I dare to openly discuss this matter and as such show why I think they are so very very wrong, while you are not even prepared to defend your opinion when it is challenged.

rileypoole1234
02-02-2012, 09:22 PM
Actually, I'm an astronomy student and I don't need to argue whether they've got their facts straight. In fact I am quite sure that their sources check out, since I myself can confirm quite a few of them. However, I do very much contest the way they draw their conclusions. There is something called the Scientific Method, which is the very basis of acquiring and processing information in a logical way that eliminates bias and tries to determine the probability of a proposed theory. This Scientific Method is violated to an extreme extent by these people. That alone brings every single point they make in serious question.

The entire "documentary" (if that is what you could call it), is a huge load of assumptions and dogmas and evidences a great deal of Tunnel Vision on the part of the ones who made it.

Furthermore, if you do not wish to discuss it then that evidences that you are set in your ways, not me. At least I dare to openly discuss this matter and as such show why I think they are so very very wrong, while you are not even prepared to defend your opinion when it is challenged.

Did you watch the whole thing yet Rey? It's truly convincing. If you can honestly say that EVERY single thing in the video is a coincidence, you're mad. I don't believe the end of the world crap and garbage like that. I don't even necessarily believe that there really was a "first civilisation". But, you can admit one thing: From this video, and everything else we know about their culture, the ancient Egyptians truly were incredible genuises. The Golden number and Pi theoris, they are not coincidences. Simple as that. The Egyptians knew exactly what they were doing when they built the Pyramids. Either that, or some mystical force was involved. Have you ever been to the Pyramids LightRey? I went with a mentor, and they are truly incredible. Hard to think that the precision with numbers and calculations in the building style is simply a coincidence.

Oh and Rey, you can't uncover secrets like this and solve mysteries without making assumptions. There would be absolutely nothing to go on with anything this ancient, without making some assumptions. We know very little about ancient Egypt, so assumptions must be made to find the real truth. It happens with everything in History.

mustash
02-02-2012, 09:41 PM
Did you watch the whole thing yet Rey? It's truly convincing. If you can honestly say that EVERY single thing in the video is a coincidence, you're mad. I don't believe the end of the world crap and garbage like that. I don't even necessarily believe that there really was a "first civilisation". But, you can admit one thing: From this video, and everything else we know about their culture, the ancient Egyptians truly were incredible genuises. The Golden number and Pi theoris, they are not coincidences. Simple as that. The Egyptians knew exactly what they were doing when they built the Pyramids. Either that, or some mystical force was involved. Have you ever been to the Pyramids LightRey? I went with a mentor, and they are truly incredible. Hard to think that the precision with numbers and calculations in the building style is simply a coincidence.

Oh and Rey, you can't uncover secrets like this and solve mysteries without making assumptions. There would be absolutely nothing to go on with anything this ancient, without making some assumptions. We know very little about ancient Egypt, so assumptions must be made to find the real truth. It happens with everything in History.

Lightreys contention is the inherent and overwhelming bias the video has. It favours specifically only evidence that supports their own hypothesis and largely ignores contradictory evidence "just because" it would appear. Now, whilst it certainly interesting that the Egyptians appeared to use something similar to Pi in the construction of the Giza Pyramids, note that to go from that to "They predicted the end of times, there was a first civilisation" is quite a frigging leap. You can draw lines between practically anything, the entire planet is littered with ancient places that don't match that arbitary line they kept emphasising but as I said, you could make yet more lines that seem to indicate a pattern. It makes for entertaining thought experiments but what you are seeing is mostly correlation where causation would require an incredible burden of evidence on their part. Part of that would require fair and equal analysis of any and all evidence they accumulate.

Your point about assumptions is curious because whilst we know relatively little, what we do have to go off does not suggest to us anything incredibly out of the ordinary. So the view point that makes the least assumptions is more likely to be valid as opposed one that makes many leaps of logic. And this video (not strictly a documentary, it's mostly an opinion piece) is quite quilty of that.

And for the record, I watched the whole thing.

jpledge
02-02-2012, 09:49 PM
Yes im set in my ways....... of not jumping to conclusions like you obviously have before you even watched it lol very scientific. I went to University to and it is a breeding ground for tunnel vision.
As i said previously im not saying if it is true just that its interesting in relation to the AC storyline and it opens up thought.

But as you say defend my opinion which i never made haha please explain these:

"Many experts would argue theres nothing extrordinary here. They say the great pyramid really was a tomb even though knowone can explain how it was built in twenty years, they say if the great pyramid is really signalling the equinoxs, if it really contains Pi,the golden number and has cubic number that relates to metres this can all be chance!!!!!"

"They say the striking similarities between ancient sites thousands of miles across the world is just another coincedence. If these sites line up across the world thats a coincedence to." (At a 30 degree angle from our equator)

"And if interesting numbers still begin to crop up with the distances between the places and if the great pyramid contains the the number for the speed of light its just chance"

rileypoole1234
02-02-2012, 09:57 PM
Lightreys contention is the inherent and overwhelming bias the video has. It favours specifically only evidence that supports their own hypothesis and largely ignores contradictory evidence "just because" it would appear. Now, whilst it certainly interesting that the Egyptians appeared to use something similar to Pi in the construction of the Giza Pyramids, note that to go from that to "They predicted the end of times, there was a first civilisation" is quite a frigging leap. You can draw lines between practically anything, the entire planet is littered with ancient places that don't match that arbitary line they kept emphasising but as I said, you could make yet more lines that seem to indicate a pattern. It makes for entertaining thought experiments but what you are seeing is mostly correlation where causation would require an incredible burden of evidence on their part. Part of that would require fair and equal analysis of any and all evidence they accumulate.

Your point about assumptions is curious because whilst we know relatively little, what we do have to go off does not suggest to us anything incredibly out of the ordinary. So the view point that makes the least assumptions is more likely to be valid as opposed one that makes many leaps of logic. And this video (not strictly a documentary, it's mostly an opinion piece) is quite quilty of that.

And for the record, I watched the whole thing.

Well what I meant was, we really have to make assumptions about everything. We don't definitely know with what and how the Pyramids were built. How could we? We need to assume that they were built with rope and stone. They might have been built by Aliens for all we know. We don't really know one thing about civilisations that long ago. We have to assume they did certain things certain ways or we'd have absolutely nothing to go on. There are so many unanswered questions though. How did somebody know how to build the first ever Pyramid? How? Why did they build it? How did they know how to make these structures earthquake proof? How did they line the pyramid up with magnetic north? So many questions... So little answers...

LightRey
02-02-2012, 10:16 PM
Did you watch the whole thing yet Rey? It's truly convincing. If you can honestly say that EVERY single thing in the video is a coincidence, you're mad. I don't believe the end of the world crap and garbage like that. I don't even necessarily believe that there really was a "first civilisation". But, you can admit one thing: From this video, and everything else we know about their culture, the ancient Egyptians truly were incredible genuises. The Golden number and Pi theoris, they are not coincidences. Simple as that. The Egyptians knew exactly what they were doing when they built the Pyramids. Either that, or some mystical force was involved. Have you ever been to the Pyramids LightRey? I went with a mentor, and they are truly incredible. Hard to think that the precision with numbers and calculations in the building style is simply a coincidence.

Oh and Rey, you can't uncover secrets like this and solve mysteries without making assumptions. There would be absolutely nothing to go on with anything this ancient, without making some assumptions. We know very little about ancient Egypt, so assumptions must be made to find the real truth. It happens with everything in History.

Yes I did watch the entire thing. First of all, a very large amount of the things that are stated "cannot be coincidences" most certainly can be. To give an example, at some point they arguee that 4 different civilzations coming up with the same solution to the problem of withstanding earthquakes "cannot be a coincidence", which is utter nonsense. They even go as far as bringing up Evolution, stating that Darwin would agree, while the contrary is true. Eyes for example have in evolution come to be in 4 different ways. Fins have also evolved in several different ways (look at whales for example) and the same goes for many other features.

All the things that might not be coincidences needn't be explained in the way this "documentary" is trying to. The "alignment" they keep talking about is not meaningful at all for example. I could think of a few circles myself that go through many of the world's famous religious structures. The fact of the matter is that there are famous structures of religious significance all over the planet.

As for the Golden number and Pi crap, that is just plain ridiculous. First of all to claim that the Egyptians wouldn't have known about pi is preposterous. Wanna know why? It's because pi is defined as being half the circumference of a circle with radius 1. Saying the Egyptians didn't know about pi is like saying they didn't know about circles. Second you can literally take any object, especially if they're symmetrical, and come up with the same kinds of "strange coincidences" regarding the golden ratio and pi. Any number can in some way be made significant in any relationship. That's how math works. For example, every number can be constructed by using 4 2's and any necessary operators (+, *, ^, etc.).

They also never take the time to refer to any relevant error margins. They claim all these structures are on one circle, but just how precisely? Even if they would be exactly on the same circle we'd have no way of measuring it to infinite precision, so even then they'd have to have error margins that are simply the errors of the tools they used.

It's convincing because they're only really telling their side of the story (even though they're clearly trying to fool the viewer into thinking they're allowing the skeptics to have their say, which they really don't) and because they make it so dramatic.

mustash
02-02-2012, 10:17 PM
Well what I meant was, we really have to make assumptions about everything. We don't definitely know with what and how the Pyramids were built. How could we? We need to assume that they were built with rope and stone. They might have been built by Aliens for all we know. We don't really know one thing about civilisations that long ago. We have to assume they did certain things certain ways or we'd have absolutely nothing to go on. There are so many unanswered questions though. How did somebody know how to build the first ever Pyramid? How? Why did they build it? How did they know how to make these structures earthquake proof? How did they line the pyramid up with magnetic north? So many questions... So little answers...

It makes for interesting philosophical discourse, how we know what we know because of course we have to assume certain things are so in the presence of evidence. What I mean by that in reference to your questions is we have evidence that gives us a good idea about their civilisation and the conclusions we make based on that is logical and reasonable. Whilst we can never know for sure unless we invent a time machine and witness it ourselves, unless the geometry/mathematics of the universe or the human brain has radically changed in the past 4000-6000 years, we can make the reasonable assumption they were merely discovering the tools for humanities technological and sociological advancement.

How did someone know to make the first ever Pyramid? Basic geometry and the knowledge of how to manipulate the environment. How? Various methods happened upon by trial and error. Why? Beliefs, technological benefits, art, any of those reasons is reasonable. How did they know to make them earthquake proof? Well, whose to say they even had the foresight that this structure COULD withstand an earthquake? That's an assumption. Lining up with magnetic north is interesting however, I know very little about how we discovered magnetics or even when. But I imagine there is a reasonable enough answer for that as well.

It's not that the other explanations are particularly outlandish, they just need to be backed up with substantial evidence, not just conjecture and hypothesis alone.

rileypoole1234
02-02-2012, 10:49 PM
As for the Golden number and Pi crap, that is just plain ridiculous. First of all to claim that the Egyptians wouldn't have known about pi is preposterous. Wanna know why? It's because pi is defined as being half the circumference of a circle with radius 1. Saying the Egyptians didn't know about pi is like saying they didn't know about circles. Second you can literally take any object, especially if they're symmetrical, and come up with the same kinds of "strange coincidences" regarding the golden ratio and pi. Any number can in some way be made significant in any relationship. That's how math works. For example, every number can be constructed by using 4 2's and any necessary operators (+, *, ^, etc.).

It's convincing because they're only really telling their side of the story (even though they're clearly trying to fool the viewer into thinking they're allowing the skeptics to have their say, which they really don't) and because they make it so dramatic.

I never though that the Egyptians didn't know Pi and the Golden number. I would argue that they most definitely did know about them. I don't want to get into an argument with you Rey, so just out of curiosity: What do make of all these coincidences?

rileypoole1234
02-02-2012, 10:59 PM
It makes for interesting philosophical discourse, how we know what we know because of course we have to assume certain things are so in the presence of evidence. What I mean by that in reference to your questions is we have evidence that gives us a good idea about their civilisation and the conclusions we make based on that is logical and reasonable. Whilst we can never know for sure unless we invent a time machine and witness it ourselves, unless the geometry/mathematics of the universe or the human brain has radically changed in the past 4000-6000 years, we can make the reasonable assumption they were merely discovering the tools for humanities technological and sociological advancement.

How did someone know to make the first ever Pyramid? Basic geometry and the knowledge of how to manipulate the environment. How? Various methods happened upon by trial and error. Why? Beliefs, technological benefits, art, any of those reasons is reasonable. How did they know to make them earthquake proof? Well, whose to say they even had the foresight that this structure COULD withstand an earthquake? That's an assumption. Lining up with magnetic north is interesting however, I know very little about how we discovered magnetics or even when. But I imagine there is a reasonable enough answer for that as well.
.

You mentioned basic Geometry, how did they even know basic geometry? How did they know how to manipulate the environment? Trial and error yes, but how did they even know how to build the error? These are the questions I love to hear. They make me think hard. I'm really more of a 1000s-late 1500s person, Though I have worked with artifacts from the Victorian and Gregorian era. My professor works in all time periods though. I'm sure he'd be interested in this video.

LightRey
02-02-2012, 11:00 PM
I never though that the Egyptians didn't know Pi and the Golden number. I would argue that they most definitely did know about them. I don't want to get into an argument with you Rey, so just out of curiosity: What do make of all these coincidences?
I'm not saying you thought that, but that is what they were basing half their theory on.

To answer your question, most of them are just coincidences. The video makes it seem like they are very unlikely to be, but they're really not. Mostly because they leave out information making it seem like they're extremely coincidental. They clearly didn't do any statistical analyses either, as they never mention doing so (even when they brought the mathematician they didn't have him do any math, which I found very odd). The point is that these coincidences aren't as outrageous as they are making them out to be.


You mentioned basic Geometry, how did they even know basic geometry? How did they know how to manipulate the environment? Trial and error yes, but how did they even know how to build the error? These are the questions I love to hear. They make me think hard. I'm really more of a 1000s-late 1500s person, Though I have worked with artifacts from the Victorian and Gregorian era. My professor works in all time periods though. I'm sure he'd be interested in this video.

Don't be ridiculous. There is strong evidence indicating that the Egyptions knew very advanced geometry. Just because they are an ancient civilization doesn't mean they were less intelligent than we are. Basic geometry is one of those things that has likely been "invented" countless times by countless people.

mustash
02-02-2012, 11:10 PM
You mentioned basic Geometry, how did they even know basic geometry? How did they know how to manipulate the environment? Trial and error yes, but how did they even know how to build the error? These are the questions I love to hear. They make me think hard. I'm really more of a 1000s-late 1500s person, Though I have worked with artifacts from the Victorian and Gregorian era. My professor works in all time periods though. I'm sure he'd be interested in this video.

It's a good question. The human mind is geared to decode a bunch of competing vibrations, light, sound, etc. So we already have a perception of geometry regardless if we know how to put it into mathematics. Geometry is built off of mathematics, so if it's decided that 1+2=3 and we can decide what constitutes 1 whole thing, from there it complexifies. We can further subdivide a whole thing into parts. From there, we can standardise what 1 part of a whole thing is. It essentially progresses in this manor (i'm simplifying this quite a lot by the way). With mathematical theorems, we have the means to describe geometry.

Manipulating the environment is literally just trial and error as I said. We have various human needs, food, water, etc, if we didn't know how to search for these things and utilise our prior knowledge, we would have died out long ago. This involves the environment and how to use it to our advantage. So, we don't just end up with Pyramids from nothing, there is a history behind the men and women who conceptualised language, maths, gathered the necessary resources, etc, to make that Pyramid or what have you. Imagine how many failed attempts one might have to go through, how many different revisions to arrive at something like the Giza Pyramids.

And as Lightrey has said above me, we have evidence that the Egyptians knew some very complex mathematics anyway.

LightRey
02-02-2012, 11:20 PM
It's a good question. The human mind is geared to decode a bunch of competing vibrations, light, sound, etc. So we already have a perception of geometry regardless if we know how to put it into mathematics. Geometry is built off of mathematics, so if it's decided that 1+2=3 and we can decide what constitutes 1 whole thing, from there it complexifies. We can further subdivide a whole thing into parts. From there, we can standardise what 1 part of a whole thing is. It essentially progresses in this manor (i'm simplifying this quite a lot by the way). With mathematical theorems, we have the means to describe geometry.

Manipulating the environment is literally just trial and error as I said. We have various human needs, food, water, etc, if we didn't know how to search for these things and utilise our prior knowledge, we would have died out long ago. This involves the environment and how to use it to our advantage. So, we don't just end up with Pyramids from nothing, there is a history behind the men and women who conceptualised language, maths, gathered the necessary resources, etc, to make that Pyramid or what have you. Imagine how many failed attempts one might have to go through, how many different revisions to arrive at something like the Giza Pyramids.

And as Lightrey has said above me, we have evidence that the Egyptians knew some very complex mathematics anyway.

I can even give an example. They had an ingenious method of making very precise 90 degree angles. What they would do was tie 2 sticks to the ends of a rope and use that to draw circles. By drawing 2 circles next to each other they could find 2 lines perpendicular to each other (i.e. making a 90 degree angle), the first being the line through the centers and the second being the line through the intersections.

mustash
02-02-2012, 11:56 PM
Ha, that's pretty great. I have a blank in my knowledge of how they would align the Pyramid with North (was it magnetic or true north?), I wonder if you know? Aligning with the equinoxes makes sense to me but not....wait...is that how? By using knowledge of the equinoxes?

itsamea-mario
02-03-2012, 12:01 AM
Lightrey!!

It's a documentary, not a scientific report, their bound to show bias.
It's up to the viewer to take what they deem reasonable.

They're just trying to get their point across, just like you.

I watched, and I thought it was quite good entertainment wise, and that it raised quite a few valid points, such how they actually built these things, and why.
They did however raise many questionable, if not rediculous ideas.

But for you to completely rule out everything they say just because you don't like the way they did it, isn't much better.

LightRey
02-03-2012, 12:06 AM
Lightrey!!

It's a documentary, not a scientific report, their bound to show bias.
It's up to the viewer to take what they deem reasonable.

They're just trying to get their point across, just like you.

I watched, and I thought it was quite good entertainment wise, and that it raised quite a few valid points, such how they actually built these things, and why.
They did however raise many questionable, if not rediculous ideas.

But for you to completely rule out everything they say just because you don't like the way they did it, isn't much better.

I'm not ruling out everything they say, but this is much more preposterous than a regular run-of-the-mill documentary. I've seen many documentaries, but this one is by far the most ridiculous and the most unscientific.


Ha, that's pretty great. I have a blank in my knowledge of how they would align the Pyramid with North (was it magnetic or true north?), I wonder if you know? Aligning with the equinoxes makes sense to me but not....wait...is that how? By using knowledge of the equinoxes?

It's aligned with magnetic north supposedly, which brings up questions since magnetic north moves around and I'm pretty sure we don't very well know where exactly magnetic north was during that time. However, assuming that we do know that, the solution is simple, they had a compass-like way of determining where magnetic north is. It's not that hard to imagine that they would've known about magnetism as natural magnets can be found all over the world, especially in mineral-rich places like Egypt. As I said before just because we only discovered it (relatively) recently, doesn't mean they never did. Knowledge is lost all the time. Just look at concrete, an invention that was lost for a thousand years.

It also somewhat contradicts something I got from another (imo much more reliable) documentary, that they used the star closest to the north (at the time that wasn't Polaris, but a star in between Ursa Major and Ursa Minor) to point it in the direction of geometric north.

mustash
02-03-2012, 12:24 AM
It's aligned with magnetic north supposedly, which brings up questions since magnetic north moves around and I'm pretty sure we don't very well know where exactly magnetic north was during that time. However, assuming that we do know that, the solution is simple, they had a compass-like way of determining where magnetic north is. It's not that hard to imagine that they would've known about magnetism as natural magnets can be found all over the world, especially in mineral-rich places like Egypt. As I said before just because we only discovered it (relatively) recently, doesn't mean they never did. Knowledge is lost all the time. Just look at concrete, an invention that was lost for a thousand years.

It also somewhat contradicts something I got from another (imo much more reliable) documentary, that they used the star closest to the north (at the time that wasn't Polaris, but a star in between Ursa Major and Ursa Minor) to point it in the direction of geometric north.

Ah, thanks for that :) I seem to recall actually learning that from a similar, if not the same documentary. I think it was on something like the history channel or something. Mind you, there's a bunch of documentaries on the Pyramids. Anyway, thanks again.

LightRey
02-03-2012, 12:40 AM
Ah, thanks for that :) I seem to recall actually learning that from a similar, if not the same documentary. I think it was on something like the history channel or something. Mind you, there's a bunch of documentaries on the Pyramids. Anyway, thanks again.

I believe I saw it in a documentary on the National Geographic Channel. They have quite a few very interesting documentaries about ancient Egypt.

rileypoole1234
02-03-2012, 12:50 AM
Rey I know that they knew extremely advanced math. That's one of the things I find incredible, the mathematical precision in everything they did. What I was "asking" was, did they really know math? Or were they just going on instinct. I'd say that's a valid enough question. The thing that I honestly can't imagine is how the architects today said that they couldn't replicate it. That's just incredible that they can't replicate it even today. I'm not even sure how it's possible not to be able to replicate something like that with modern tools. But I'm no architect by any means. Archaeology is really my field. That's also why AC sparked my interest at first. My mind is going to sleep for the day/night now.

LightRey
02-03-2012, 12:59 AM
Rey I know that they knew extremely advanced math. That's one of the things I find incredible, the mathematical precision in everything they did. What I was "asking" was, did they really know math? Or were they just going on instinct. I'd say that's a valid enough question. The thing that I honestly can't imagine is how the architects today said that they couldn't replicate it. That's just incredible that they can't replicate it even today. I'm not even sure how it's possible not to be able to replicate something like that with modern tools. But I'm no architect by any means. Archaeology is really my field. That's also why AC sparked my interest at first. My mind is going to sleep for the day/night now.

They can't replicate it because there has been no need for it in modern society. The Egyptians spent thousands of years perfecting their skills in building structures to honor the gods. The only real difference between us and them is that we have machines and computers. They were still as smart and as ingenious as we are, if nor more so and they had much more time and motivation.

kalo.yanis
02-03-2012, 03:27 AM
They can't replicate it because there has been no need for it in modern society. The Egyptians spent thousands of years perfecting their skills in building structures to honor the gods. The only real difference between us and them is that we have machines and computers. They were still as smart and as ingenious as we are, if nor more so and they had much more time and motivation.
Plus, I hear monarchs back then were very persuasive.

LightRey
02-03-2012, 12:12 PM
Plus, I hear monarchs back then were very persuasive.

Indeed they were. The Egyptians also believed that the reincarnation of the pharaoh was vital to the continued existence of the universe, so they likely worked on those structures as if their own lived depended on it.

kalo.yanis
02-03-2012, 03:28 PM
Indeed they were. The Egyptians also believed that the reincarnation of the pharaoh was vital to the continued existence of the universe, so they likely worked on those structures as if their own lives depended on it.
Their lives pretty much did, if you ask me. :D

Although, that being said, as far as I know, the pharaohs were surprisingly fair about rewarding the workers for their labour. They weren't even slaves, as a matter of fact. Then again, who knows... it's ancient Egypt, after all.

GLHS
02-03-2012, 03:46 PM
It seemed to me like the documentary was kinda supposed to be taking one side over the other. They made a lot of statements saying "throwing science out the window, what other explanations could there be for all of this?" I think the point of it wasn't to be extremely scientific, it was to raise questions about history and ancient times. Obviously, there are a lot of people that don't believe in aliens and all that, and there isn't scientific proof that they exist, but they used it as a possible explanations for how these things happened. Same thing with the possibility of more advanced civilizations that may have once existed. All of our evidence shows the contrary, but they still used it as a possible scenario. So I think it was a documentary more about the physical characteristics of the building of the pyramids and statues, (since it really isn't possible to be that precise with a hand and a chisel), more so than a documentary about scientific explanations for them.

LightRey
02-03-2012, 04:22 PM
It seemed to me like the documentary was kinda supposed to be taking one side over the other. They made a lot of statements saying "throwing science out the window, what other explanations could there be for all of this?" I think the point of it wasn't to be extremely scientific, it was to raise questions about history and ancient times. Obviously, there are a lot of people that don't believe in aliens and all that, and there isn't scientific proof that they exist, but they used it as a possible explanations for how these things happened. Same thing with the possibility of more advanced civilizations that may have once existed. All of our evidence shows the contrary, but they still used it as a possible scenario. So I think it was a documentary more about the physical characteristics of the building of the pyramids and statues, (since it really isn't possible to be that precise with a hand and a chisel), more so than a documentary about scientific explanations for them.

Of course and I would agree, but this documentary goes much further than that. It even goes as far as blatantly claiming things based on the "evidence" they have collected, directly contradicting the scientific community. It is one thing to doubt the scientific norm and entirely another to not only propose your own (preposterous) theory, but also claim that it is more believable than the norm, if not true.

jpledge
02-03-2012, 04:36 PM
Yes yes yes everyone but back to Assasind Creed as it is an AC forum. The game looks like its heading or has gone in the same route as this theory presented in this Doc .

The documentary is presenting a theory regarding an ancient advanced civilization or maybe they came from somwhere else in the universe.

Its a good thing to think outside the box on occasion.

Lightrey after all your jargon why didnt you try to explain things like you said, you avoided my post brah.

"Many experts would argue theres nothing extrordinary here. They say the great pyramid really was a tomb even though knowone can explain how it was built in twenty years, they say if the great pyramid is really signalling the equinoxs, if it really contains Pi,the golden number and has cubic number that relates to metres this can all be chance!!!!!"

"They say the striking similarities between ancient sites thousands of miles across the world is just another coincedence. If these sites line up across the world thats a coincedence to." (At a 30 degree angle from our equator)

"And if interesting numbers still begin to crop up with the distances between the places and if the great pyramid contains the the number for the speed of light its just chance"

Coincedence??????

LightRey
02-03-2012, 04:49 PM
Yes yes yes everyone but back to Assasind Creed as it is an AC forum. The game looks like its heading or has gone in the same route as this theory presented in this Doc .

The documentary is presenting a theory regarding an ancient advanced civilization or maybe they came from somwhere else in the universe.

Its a good thing to think outside the box on occasion.

Lightrey after all your jargon why didnt you try to explain things like you said you avoided my post brah.

"Many experts would argue theres nothing extrordinary here. They say the great pyramid really was a tomb even though knowone can explain how it was built in twenty years, they say if the great pyramid is really signalling the equinoxs, if it really contains Pi,the golden number and has cubic number that relates to metres this can all be chance!!!!!"

"They say the striking similarities between ancient sites thousands of miles across the world is just another coincedence. If these sites line up across the world thats a coincedence to." (At a 30 degree angle from our equator)

"And if interesting numbers still begin to crop up with the distances between the places and if the great pyramid contains the the number for the speed of light its just chance"

Coincedence??????

The first quote:
It relates to meters because they make it relate to meters. I could take the number e and make it significant for the construction of the pyramids in yards. Again, math is deliberately designed in such a way that any and all numbers are of significance to everything. That they found these numbers is not surprising at all. In fact, I would have been surprised if they had found they had no significance whatsoever.
However, even if we assume that it is special, there are numerous far more reasonable explanations. For one, there could simply be a distinctive relation between the circumference of a circle and the golden ratio (it wouldn't surprise me). Since the golden ratio is something that can be found everywhere in nature and that humans instinctively regard as "good looking" when used in drawings/structures/etc. the occurrence of both in the same structure is to be expected.

The second quote:
Again, it's not that surprising considering the huge amount of religious structures all over the world. One could wonder why Stonehenge isn't on it for example. The world is littered with such religious "wonders". You could draw a random line that would pass through the same amount of such structures. It really is not even a coincidence, it's just plain logical. It's no different from drawing random points on a piece of paper and then drawing a diagonal of the paper only to find that it "coincidentally" passes through some of those points. That is no reason to assume that there is a "hidden" relation between the diagonal and these points other.

The third quote:
I can make the speed of light in m/s appear in the length of my desk if I want to. Here the same applies as with the first quote. Numbers are made to do such tricks with. These are not coincidences, they are basic laws of math.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that any claims about the probability of anything mean nothing without any statistical analysis. Until I see them crunching the numbers I am more than willing to believe that any of these things are purely coincidental.

jpledge
02-03-2012, 09:07 PM
My God this is tedious.

Havnt they discovered measuring sticks ? ,you obviously have only watched it once and think your an expert. I also would say that the Stonehenge architecture isnt similiar to Easter Isl ,Peru and Giza other than being large stone.Thre is far to much for you to debunk are you going to say its all just numerical lies or coincedence .

Ive heard a theory before that stonehenge is aligned with all East Coast US cities on a layline. Seems people may have copied the ancients haha as they have signalling the equinox apparently they could no get it as accurate in the 18th century. What about strasbourg cathedral ,or what Ieoh Ming Pei has to say.

actually just watch it again and debunk every single thing because that is what you are trying to do .debunk trolling. ruining the thread. actually ive seen on other threads how your just a trolling lunatic.

jpledge
02-03-2012, 09:15 PM
Im done here good luck everyone it was interesting anyhow. Cant wait for AC3 ,safe

mustash
02-03-2012, 09:22 PM
My God this is tedious.

Havnt they discovered measuring sticks ? ,you obviously have only watched it once and think your an expert. I also would say that the Stonehenge architecture isnt similiar to Easter Isl ,Peru and Giza other than being large stone.Thre is far to much for you to debunk are you going to say its all just numerical lies or coincedence .

Ive heard a theory before that stonehenge is aligned with all East Coast US cities on a layline. Seems people may have copied the ancients haha as they have signalling the equinox apparently they could no get it as accurate in the 18th century. What about strasbourg cathedral ,or what Ieoh Ming Pei has to say.

actually just watch it again and debunk every single thing because that is what you are trying to do .debunk trolling. ruining the thread. actually ive seen on other threads how your just a trolling lunatic.

Character assassignation...classy. Even when presented with logical, rational and reasonable counter arguements, you are basically like "Nu-uh, it has to be alien magic faries". I'm being sarcastic, I wonder if you can tell? Perhaps not, seeing as you missed everything lightrey had to say. Debunking does not equal trolling, or ruining the thread, in this case it's actually giving some plausabile rational counter-arguements. Not just that in fact, this video is guilty of so much bias that it's essentially a propoganda piece.

LightRey
02-03-2012, 09:46 PM
My God this is tedious.

Havnt they discovered measuring sticks ? ,you obviously have only watched it once and think your an expert. I also would say that the Stonehenge architecture isnt similiar to Easter Isl ,Peru and Giza other than being large stone.Thre is far to much for you to debunk are you going to say its all just numerical lies or coincedence .

Ive heard a theory before that stonehenge is aligned with all East Coast US cities on a layline. Seems people may have copied the ancients haha as they have signalling the equinox apparently they could no get it as accurate in the 18th century. What about strasbourg cathedral ,or what Ieoh Ming Pei has to say.

actually just watch it again and debunk every single thing because that is what you are trying to do .debunk trolling. ruining the thread. actually ive seen on other threads how your just a trolling lunatic.

By far not all structures they mentioned that are on the circle have similar structure. In fact, only those of the 4 civilizations they mentioned earlier on had, which applied to about 5 of the structures on the line. Get your facts straight.

Btw, thank you mustash2003 for defending me. It is much appreciated.

jpledge
02-03-2012, 10:09 PM
As i said i only posted this in relation to the AC Revelation and that the documentary creates a similiar story and is quite intersting. Its a good documentary which this moron slated before he even watched it very scientific. As mustash says "argument" (argueing is ******ed) I never once stated that anything was fact so therefore i did not propose anything to argue. I just said it was a good documentary that gets you thinking.

DO YOU NOT NOTICE THAT I HAVNT SAID ANYTHING IS FACT JUST THAT IT IS IN RELATION TO THE ASSASINS CREED STORYLINE.

jpledge
02-03-2012, 10:16 PM
One of the possibilities if not main theory that the documentary proposes is that they could have been built by an ancient civilization just like Assasins Creed "those who came before".
Thread ruined by conspiracy debunking nut.

LightRey
02-03-2012, 10:40 PM
As i said i only posted this in relation to the AC Revelation and that the documentary creates a similiar story and is quite intersting. Its a good documentary which this moron slated before he even watched it very scientific. As mustash says "argument" (argueing is ******ed) I never once stated that anything was fact so therefore i did not propose anything to argue. I just said it was a good documentary that gets you thinking.

DO YOU NOT NOTICE THAT I HAVNT SAID ANYTHING IS FACT JUST THAT IT IS IN RELATION TO THE ASSASINS CREED STORYLINE.

It is not at all scientific. It breaks the most basic rules of the Scientific Method at every turn. They don't even take the proper time to calculate any of the probabilities they're discussing, but instead immediately dismiss them as being "too small to be mere coincidence" (not even taking the time to give a logical explanation for that conclusion). For it to be scientific, it needs to refer to error margins, it needs to provide calculations or at the very least proper estimations of the probabilities involved and it needs to provide proper comparisons from experimental data, none of which they did. If this theory were to be submitted to a peer reviewed, scientific journal it would be rejected if only because of these reasons. They provide no proper evidence, they provide no proper elaboration on their improper evidence and they don't allow the scientific community to properly defend their position on why they reject the theory. It is, in fact, anything but scientific.

I would even go so far as to say that it is so unscientific that it's not even worthy of being called a documentary as it doesn't so much document as it advocates a theory. While watching it, it very much reminded me of presidential campaign propaganda videos.

Assassin_M
02-03-2012, 10:44 PM
As i said i only posted this in relation to the AC Revelation and that the documentary creates a similiar story and is quite intersting. Its a good documentary which this moron slated before he even watched it very scientific. As mustash says "argument" (argueing is ******ed) I never once stated that anything was fact so therefore i did not propose anything to argue. I just said it was a good documentary that gets you thinking.

DO YOU NOT NOTICE THAT I HAVNT SAID ANYTHING IS FACT JUST THAT IT IS IN RELATION TO THE ASSASINS CREED STORYLINE.
Did you call Rey a moron ?
Just because he disagrees with you doesnt make it cool to call him that..

LightRey
02-03-2012, 10:46 PM
Did you call Rey a moron ?
Just because he disagrees with you doesnt make it cool to call him that..

I think he's annoyed, because I'm "raining on his parade" as they say. All I can say is you shouldn't hold a parade on a rainy day.

jpledge
02-03-2012, 11:33 PM
I think he's annoyed, because I'm "raining on his parade" as they say. All I can say is you shouldn't hold a parade on a rainy day.

What parade?????? is there parades on internet forums. .....Again you havnt siad anything about the Assasin Creed game which was my purpose ,just trying to prove that your right about your theory, even though i will take what you say into acoount (19-21 yr old student who has a several thousand posts on a forum) and i will take all of the peoples opinions in the documentary into account .Its called an open mind.

When i said scientific!!!!!!!!!! ,again, It wasnt in relation to the Documentary, it was to you jumping to conclusions before you even seen the documentary. Is this scientific? moronic?

LightRey
02-03-2012, 11:58 PM
What parade?????? is there parades on internet forums. .....Again you havnt siad anything about the Assasin Creed game which was my purpose ,just trying to prove that your right about your theory, even though i will take what you say into acoount (19-21 yr old student who has a several thousand posts on a forum) and i will take all of the peoples opinions in the documentary into account .Its called an open mind.

When i said scientific!!!!!!!!!! ,again, It wasnt in relation to the Documentary, it was to you jumping to conclusions before you even seen the documentary. Is this scientific? moronic?

It's a metaphor. The parade referring to this theory and the rain referring to my criticism on it.
Of course it could be well applied to the story of AC. It's one helluva conspiracy theory and it ties in quite well with what's already in the story.

I was simply stating that these things people were talking about "could not be coincidences" most certainly could. I didn't need to watch the video to claim that. I was completely objective in devising my conclusion. In fact, when I actually watched the video I was immensely surprised by how much worse it was than I had anticipated.

I would also advise you to refrain from calling people "morons" on the forum. It's against the rules and it doesn't help you in this discussion.