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View Full Version : lean vrs cover systems



xhenry06x
05-15-2007, 05:04 PM
I was just wondering what people preferred. The old lean system of rainbow that had the slow walk glitches, or the new cover system that has all of the wall and corner glitches.

I prefer the lean because I don't like 3rd person shooters, and stay away from them. For me I see way to much camping with 3rd person shooters.

xhenry06x
05-15-2007, 05:04 PM
I was just wondering what people preferred. The old lean system of rainbow that had the slow walk glitches, or the new cover system that has all of the wall and corner glitches.

I prefer the lean because I don't like 3rd person shooters, and stay away from them. For me I see way to much camping with 3rd person shooters.

bigron8911
05-15-2007, 10:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xhenry06x:
I was just wondering what people preferred. The old lean system of rainbow that had the slow walk glitches, or the new cover system that has all of the wall and corner glitches.

I prefer the lean because I don't like 3rd person shooters, and stay away from them. For me I see way to much camping with 3rd person shooters. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

your gonna see camping whether your playing third person of 1st. that makes no difference.

TROUBLENSB
05-16-2007, 07:00 AM
I prefer the lean system because it's more realistic. The lean walk could be fixed and while it was hard to kill someone, you could kill them. Compared to the corner glitching in Vegas, I prefer a lean walker any day.

At least with the lean, a camper has to expose themselves to my fire to look. Good luck.

TROUBLENSB

TW_Night_Fox
05-16-2007, 07:12 AM
I was playing paintball a few weeks ago and a 12 or so year old walk on was trying to do the lame-*** cover system in gears of war because he thought it made him look cool. He ended up taking 4 balls to the right ear and 7 to the right shoulder blade and in turn, he was crying like a *****. *******.

The point I am trying to make is that these cover modes are stupid. A real SF operator, Soldier, or even a paintballer is smart enough to know that that's a bad move. But these self proclaimed "Elite Counter-Terrorist" don't know any better.

What the hell happened to this franchise?

TROUBLENSB
05-16-2007, 08:00 AM
Yep, camping in Paintball either gets balls on your face or gets you bunkered everytime. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Then again, much could be said about paintball that is like the RB6 series. I remember the days back in the late 80's when paintball games (1 life) between 12 people took 2 hours to play. Those were the days. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif We called them "Bug Hunts".

Thanks.

TROUBLENSB

TW_Night_Fox
05-16-2007, 08:17 AM
Yeah they are very similar.

Nowadays paintball is full cheaters and kids with bad attitudes. There is very little skill involved (there is still skill just not as much) in modern paintball.

The world is changing, I guess we can't blame Ubi for that. The're just following the trend.

xhenry06x
05-17-2007, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bigron8911:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xhenry06x:
I was just wondering what people preferred. The old lean system of rainbow that had the slow walk glitches, or the new cover system that has all of the wall and corner glitches.

I prefer the lean because I don't like 3rd person shooters, and stay away from them. For me I see way to much camping with 3rd person shooters. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

your gonna see camping whether your playing third person of 1st. that makes no difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I know there will be camping no matter 1st or 3rd, but 3rd does have involve alot more camping if you watch. Like troublen said, "if your camping in 1st person you HAVE to stick your head out" and when you do you can be seen. I dont know how many times in vegas and gears Ive been running around looking for people only to get about 2 feet away and get sprayed big time by someone jumping off a corner full blaze. In 1st person if they can see you peaking a corner that means you can see them. Then you can take cover.

My personal favorite is running by a corner towards a door then suddenly blowing up by c4, only to see the person jump off the wall toss another charge like it was a twix bar and post up on the wall again and wait.

Might just be me because I run around more and hate sitting in one spot and just run into all the campers. But when playing RS3 vrs Vegas now, there is a lot more camping being done with the 3rd.

TROUBLENSB
05-17-2007, 10:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xhenry06x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bigron8911:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xhenry06x:
I was just wondering what people preferred. The old lean system of rainbow that had the slow walk glitches, or the new cover system that has all of the wall and corner glitches.

I prefer the lean because I don't like 3rd person shooters, and stay away from them. For me I see way to much camping with 3rd person shooters. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

your gonna see camping whether your playing third person of 1st. that makes no difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I know there will be camping no matter 1st or 3rd, but 3rd does have involve alot more camping if you watch. Like troublen said, "if your camping in 1st person you HAVE to stick your head out" and when you do you can be seen. I dont know how many times in vegas and gears Ive been running around looking for people only to get about 2 feet away and get sprayed big time by someone jumping off a corner full blaze. In 1st person if they can see you peaking a corner that means you can see them. Then you can take cover.

My personal favorite is running by a corner towards a door then suddenly blowing up by c4, only to see the person jump off the wall toss another charge like it was a twix bar and post up on the wall again and wait.

Might just be me because I run around more and hate sitting in one spot and just run into all the campers. But when playing RS3 vrs Vegas now, there is a lot more camping being done with the 3rd. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Although, I don'r run around as much as he does, but it is frustrating that people don't have to expose themselves as they would have to in real life. Just my 2 cents. Later.

adio540
05-17-2007, 04:32 PM
lol thats why you dont play with random people
but also cover does not work lmao to do it like rainbow or something ud have to like expose ur whole back to the enemies cuz chances r the perosn trying it isnt very skilled at doing it lol and if they were "skilled" then there lying cuz anyone skilled enough to do it would kno u shouldnt do it cuz its ******ed

but i like it better in videogames just cuz u can see ur character..i mean i like 1st person but i also like how u can see ur guy easily

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TW_Night_Fox:
Yeah they are very similar.

Nowadays paintball is full cheaters and kids with bad attitudes. There is very little skill involved (there is still skill just not as much) in modern paintball.

The world is changing, I guess we can't blame Ubi for that. The're just following the trend. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seven7h_Column
05-19-2007, 01:50 AM
i dislike 3rd person in shooters for the following reasons.
1. You can see more that what your character shoud physically be seeing.
2. it is impossible to "bunker" a player who would otherwise not be able to see you becasue they are in the confort of complete cover AND can see you. This ruins realism to the max becasue it changes everything regarding tactics and visual information gathering.
3. when firing from 3rd person, the bullets hit your reticle from an angle and make for strange balistic characteristics.
4. Camping is encouraged and for the most part the cover system is only ever used to get a cheap look around the corner.
5. even though it sucks to get shot, it was always a great immersion point in a game where you had to peek your head over a ledge to see and your screen snapped back violently because somebody sniped you in the face. Thusly making players be more cautious in their movements becasue exposure could = death
6. when encountering another player it looks pretty funny when they have their back to the wall an appear to be staring directly at you, but due to the 3rd person view they are looking in the direction of the back of their head and never so much as notice you.
7. well the obvious one that sums up just about everything i just said is REALISM does not allow for cheap 3rd person seeing around corners.
The 3rd person cover system could be tollerable and even successful if the line of sight was limited to what the character should actually be seeing and when a view around the cover object was needed the player should peek their head out to get a glimpse of the area ahead. However, in its current state it is more damaging to gameplay than innovative, with some tweaking it could really work well becasue the blind fire, door opening animations, etc worked really well.

Timber-Wolf-13
06-07-2007, 01:44 AM
*is enjoying reading old posts* What they should do, is keep the cover system. But make it first person, so that to see around the corner, you have to stick a bit of your head out to actually see what is going on. than to shoot you can pop-out. Like in GRAW, its third person, but the character peaks around the corner for a better look. Doing that in first person, would probably be the best of both worlds. Cover system, yet a slight lean.

MeanMF
06-07-2007, 07:38 AM
The GRAW 2 single player campaign has a good first-person lean system if you set the game to first person view. It even uses the analog stick to control the lean, so you can peek out a little or all the way or anything in between.

chewy117
06-07-2007, 08:19 AM
cover all the way much better thatn leaning

RawKryptonite
06-07-2007, 09:14 AM
My standard opinion:

I want BOTH.
I do like having a cover system, but we haven't seen it done right yet. Not so good in GRAW, a little better in GOW, a lot better in Vegas--especially in the control of it (left trigger), but we still have the field of vision that we shouldn't have.

If we have a smooth and easy system like in Vegas, but a tighter view and no extra field of vision, that would be great. It's simply enjoyable switching to 3rd person like that, but seeing around corners (the opposite side of the wall you're on) just doesn't make sense. You cant help but do it though, since it's there. Limit the view to what you should be able to see in that position and it'll be just right.

So, we're getting closer to cover done right, but it's not there yet. And just leave the lean in there--that's what you want oftentimes instead of cover. I don't see any reason to have to choose.

Fire_Bucket
06-07-2007, 10:04 AM
I prefer the cover system. It's far less buggy. Sure you can shoot through some objects, but that gives you no more of an advantage than lean walking did, as it's so easy to replicate and counter.

With the lean system there were the wall glitches (seeing throuhh walls) and slow walking that made it unbearable to play sometimes. They treid to fix them on so many occassions but could never get it right (it was supposed to be fixed in Black Arrow but 3 weeks after launch people were slow walking again).

The only time the lean glitching was "fixed" was in Lockdown when you had to hold the dpad to stay in a leaning position. And that resulted in very few people actually leaning.

danfoz
06-07-2007, 11:50 AM
I do like cover as it tends to stymie the "run and gun" aspect. Also without the cover system, mechanically it really would be like every other shooter out there with the only difference being the tileset. Maybe as one of the previous mentions suggested, having a smaller portion exposed or a slightly more restricted view while in cover.

On the downside it does seriously expose one's flank and I've stumbled upon many campers suffering target fixation, especially upstairs in one of the two opposing buildings in The Streets. Can anybody say pistol whip?

I'm not sure what the big deal with campers is anyway. I have yet to see one score in the top of a room or contribute significantly to team scoring. Isn't it really mostly new players who don't have the confidence yet that camp out full-time anyhow?

As a compromise, maybe it could be run like PGR, where the host can enforce the "in car" view. Those wishing to play without could do so and those wondering how the vision-cam snapshot of themselves looks could indulge too. It would be very easy programatically to remove the left trigger functionality with a simple host setting and this way everyone, campers, realists, despots, narccissists, and those who simply dont care, would all be happy.

I hate to say it, but grenades are the best defense against 3rd person campers. I imagine those in the forum who are against cover despise grenades too. If it helps, throwing grenades at ones feet is no longer a viable tactic as a suicide results in punative team scoring and if friendly fire is on, one risks blowing up their teamates too. But I imagine this topic could run a thread all by itself.

FrayedKnotJeff
06-07-2007, 03:04 PM
I say have a cover system but never leave the models head, if they take cover then they are looking straight ahead, if they lean to the right/left then they will expose their head at the same time being able to see around the corner.

You want to leave your body to see around a corner? Then die!

ArrowDynamicsX
06-07-2007, 11:18 PM
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