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dgk196
06-13-2008, 09:37 PM
So, what would it take to bring this sim back? Other games have been kept alive by 'user' participation. Why not this game?

In terms of potential, flexibility and adaptability this game is right at the top! I don't include 'ork games' and 'fantasy' games of course!

A look at various sites with 'downloads' should answer any questions about interest! I would buy any program that expanded the series! As for compatibility, I say ignore Microsoft and Vista! When Microsoft wants to pay for all the costs to make current programs compatible, then 'we' should worry about that!

I know that I would pay for add-ons. A series of say 'add-ons' that reflected those German secret aircraft series. Or one that included lesser known aircraft, He-177, He-274, He-100, numerous 'French' aircraft, and on and on.......

I'm 'late' to the game (sorry about the obvious pun), but what could be done to 'revive' the game?

Dennis

dgk196
06-13-2008, 09:37 PM
So, what would it take to bring this sim back? Other games have been kept alive by 'user' participation. Why not this game?

In terms of potential, flexibility and adaptability this game is right at the top! I don't include 'ork games' and 'fantasy' games of course!

A look at various sites with 'downloads' should answer any questions about interest! I would buy any program that expanded the series! As for compatibility, I say ignore Microsoft and Vista! When Microsoft wants to pay for all the costs to make current programs compatible, then 'we' should worry about that!

I know that I would pay for add-ons. A series of say 'add-ons' that reflected those German secret aircraft series. Or one that included lesser known aircraft, He-177, He-274, He-100, numerous 'French' aircraft, and on and on.......

I'm 'late' to the game (sorry about the obvious pun), but what could be done to 'revive' the game?

Dennis

Xiolablu3
06-13-2008, 09:48 PM
The game is still extrememly popular online with around 800-1000 players flying each night.

What exactly needs to be revived? Or have you been trying to play on UBI.com which is useless for IL2?

dgk196
06-13-2008, 10:08 PM
Thank you for your reply..

I have no doubt that the game is popular!

I'd just like to see the series continue, wouldn't you?

How many aircraft 'types' would you like to see?

I have a 'list', seems endless to some!

As I said, I am new to the game. So to me, with a lack of official new releases, it seems like I bought tickets to last weeks game!

Dennis

Bearcat99
06-13-2008, 10:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dgk196:
So, what would it take to bring this sim back? Other games have been kept alive by 'user' participation. Why not this game?
In terms of potential, flexibility and adaptability this game is right at the top! I don't include 'ork games' and 'fantasy' games of course!
I'm 'late' to the game (sorry about the obvious pun), but what could be done to 'revive' the game?
Dennis </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This sim is doing quite well... needs no revival.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

PanzerAce
06-13-2008, 11:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
This sim is doing quite well... needs no revival.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, a revival would imply that it had died, which it most certainly has not.


And damn I'm glad to have finally gotten my joystick http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Xiolablu3
06-13-2008, 11:26 PM
I think we misunderstood what dgk meant guys.

He wants more planes added and extra content.

I would love to see that happen too, but Oleg had to draw a line under IL2 sometime in order to progress with the new game engine which is Storm of War :Battle Of Britain.

You can only keep adding stuff to an old engine for so long, and although the IL2 engine still looks great, SOW:BOB will incorporate all-new techniques and realism not seen in a combat sim before.

So I would love to see IL2 continue, but I would much rather see the all-new game/engine that will be SOW:BOB, SOW:Med, SOW: Barborossa, SOW:Pacific etc http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
06-13-2008, 11:56 PM
This game engine is ...what...8 or 9 years old now? Its had its day...its time to go next gen and thats what Storm of War is going to be for.

TinyTim
06-14-2008, 12:04 AM
What Xiola and IceFire said. This sim will be "revived" very well through its succsessor SOW BOB so to speak.

It's amazing IL2 has been around for like 8 years already, and it even seems to me its still growing its population!

BWaltteri
06-14-2008, 06:22 AM
If Oleg wants to sell the source code to some company who then releases a remake with several additions.

For a long time I enjoyed Steel Panthers that was originally made in 1995 but the remake was popular, and I believe it still is, up to this day.

-HH- Beebop
06-14-2008, 12:57 PM
IL-2 has as many years left in it as it takes for Storm of War to be released.

That should be in about "two weeks" IIRC. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

general_kalle
06-14-2008, 01:57 PM
what i think could be done is
(not extremely neccecary)
to fix all those little bugs that are so anoying. all the little AI cheatings. Adjust some Flight models to realistic values and then of course expand the amount of maps and planes. See that'd really keep this game going for really long time.

-HH- Beebop
06-14-2008, 05:46 PM
Good ideas but....there are two problems to that as I see it.

1. Oleg has said he is through with IL-2. Proof of that is how long it's taking for the 4.09 final to be released, if ever.
2. The game coding is so intertwined amongst itself in some sort of computer incestuousness that changing one thing changes something else. I believe that one of those "good" changes resulted in AI seaplanes engines stopping at the last waypoint before touchdown. Another "good" change made it so that when online if one engine stops on a multi-engined plane it appears to everyone else as though both have stopped.
Both of these are niggling issues I grant you that, but what other 'side effects' might result from fixing another problem. All that coding and testing is another reason that Oleg has decided to move on the SoW.

My 2 kopecks worth.

BWaltteri
06-15-2008, 02:48 AM
I can tolerate the AI cheating because I think it would be more irritating to see the whole AI squadron to trash their planes into some tiny bug that it just can't overcome.

DuxCorvan
06-15-2008, 05:41 AM
Try to make a mission with AI Mistels... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BWaltteri
06-16-2008, 01:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Try to make a mission with AI Mistels... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too advanced concept for a Gladiator pilot!

JG53Frankyboy
06-16-2008, 03:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by general_kalle:
........... Adjust some Flight models to realistic values .............. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well, what would be "realistic"........ having FM discussions on this board in mind - lot of "opinions" mostly !

Urufu_Shinjiro
06-16-2008, 02:07 PM
Wow, I didn't think people on this forum were stil this easy, this guy went fishing and caught his limit, lol!

dgk196
07-30-2008, 03:02 AM
So, what would be wrong with the powers that be coming out with official additions?

There certainly can't be to many issues to sort out when it comes to making new components available, I mean they had to have worked out just about every issue related to the 'engine' and such, so expansions would be easier!?

I'd like to see an IL2 1946 - II release! Tell me it wouldn't sell like hotcakes!?

What would be in it? I can think of a !#@$-load of things, how about you!?

In general, a slew of new aircraft would be nice, and not just the next generation jets and such. How about some of the French aircraft at the start of the war, they had a bunch and they were on the verge of introducing their next generation of aircraft. Maybe some 'dutch' planes.

I can think of a bunch of German bombers......
Do-17, Do-217, Ju-188, He-177......

How about a 'night fighter' edition? You wouldn't be interested in He-219, P-61's, Go229's, Me110's, P-38's..... More 'support' or secondary aspects. Radar! Both ground and airborne! Getting back to the '46 aspect, anti-aircraft rockets!

Trans-sonic and super-sonic flight would have to be addressed. Careful, its tricky flying in that transonic region!

How about the U.S., British and Russian ac without the 'captured' technology aspect? Straight-wing F-86? Other such variations!?

A German aircraft carrier would be cool.......

No, given the interest in this program, I think another release would go over......

Yeah the next, game is coming out.... how long will it take the 'skin' library to be built up? Will you even be able to do it, add skins I mean!?

I don't know, but I know what I've got now and I think there may be 'room' for both 'programs'

I mean, its hard to visualize everyone 'tossing' all of their IL2 stuff because a new program is out. Will they but it, sure! Would I buy a new IL2 add-on, you bet!

Dennis

PB0_shadow
07-30-2008, 03:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'd like to see an IL2 1946 - II release! Tell me it wouldn't sell like hotcakes!?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It wouldn't sell like hotcakes.
For a video game, that would mean somewhere between 500 000 - one million copies (I'm gentle here, biggest hits go over sevreal millions copies sold).
IL-2 1946 sold well for -mostly - a relaunch, but is very far from this king of figures.

Chivas
07-30-2008, 10:26 AM
IL-2's future is limited except for some user made add-ons. The future is the SOW series. The majority of combat flight simmers will quickly move on while others will move as the SOW series expands or upgrade their computers.

There will always be a small percentage stay as they have in the EAW, and CFS series. Most of these people enjoy the modding aspect, but if IC allows extensive modding of SOW, the number will dwindle even further.

ElAurens
07-30-2008, 11:05 AM
I still think that once we "fly" an aircraft in SOW it will be impossible to fire up '46 and not chuckle at it's quaintness.

It will be dead as a doornail for the majority of users six months after the release of SOW.

Indianer.
07-30-2008, 11:47 AM
^^ I completely agree. Once SOW is out IL2 will be a thing of nostalgia http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

buddye1
07-30-2008, 12:59 PM
From my many years working on the BOBII and BOBI (since 2003), a Flight Sim either moves forward with new features, fixes, and options or it moves backward.

Il2 is now slowly moving forward because of the new mods interest.

Oleg will want everyone (who can) to step up to SOW where he will get a sale which is very easy to understand (follow the money).

IL2's future is limited to the guys doing the Mods and they seem to be doing very well now. It must be very difficult without source code, however. It will be very interesting to see how far the mods guys can extend IL2 after SOW.

Chivas
07-30-2008, 03:50 PM
Thats a major hurdle for IL-2 and BOB WOV to compete with SOW. Noone working on either flight sim fully understands their source code.

Fehler
07-30-2008, 09:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
SOW:BOB will incorporate all-new techniques and realism not seen in a combat sim before. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't you mean...

SOW:BoB will incorporate all-new techniques and realism that will never be seen in a combat sim. (Because we will never see it....)

ElAurens
07-30-2008, 09:16 PM
Always with the negative waves man...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

WTE_Galway
07-30-2008, 09:30 PM
Part of the problem is IL2 has reached a point that with rare exceptions (Spitfire I and II for example) most planes that can be added are only of interest to a fraction of users. For example personally I have no interest in anything post 1942 and would instead have loved to see Avias and Cr32s and 109 Doras and the Swordfish.

Nevertheless IL2 will still have a place even after SOW.

Given the supposed complexity of the damage models and 3D modeling in SOW I think it unlikely if SOW will ever have the sheer volume of original designer authenticated flyable planes as IL2. It will simply be a much bigger job to add an aircraft.

Perhaps if aftermarket purchasable aircraft are permitted we will get a reasonable number of quality planes (but pay for it through the nose) but otherwise I suspect it may be a handful of good ones from Oleg and a few reputable designers and otherwise a batch of user designed "it flies the way I saw it in the movie where it won the war" mods.

Now maybe I am wrong, but even if I am being overly cynical, it will be years before SOW approaches the plane set currently on offer in IL2.

Chivas
07-30-2008, 11:34 PM
Eventually SOW could have a larger plane set. Although I would much rather have 10 more realistic aircraft in a far more immersive atmosphere than 100 less realistic aircraft on an obsolete game engine. In my world plane set has a low priorty.

DaddyAck
07-31-2008, 02:07 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I agree, I fly the Bf.109 exclusively. So plane set does not matter much to me, but a more emersive 109 experience would be right up my alley. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

dgk196
07-31-2008, 03:04 AM
Well, of course any sim based on a new engine and improved (higher res) graphics is going to 'play' better.

But to me, variety is key. One of the 'things' that makes IL2 is the variety. How successful would it have been if it only would have 'covered' the 'Russian front' and with only a limited number of ac types? I don't know if that question can ever be answered. But for me, I know it was important.

I don't know if this is correct........
but, if you have a limited 'theater' and a limited number of ac it begins to seem like those 'dedicated' sims! You know 'F16' or 'A10 warthog'! To limited, I liked the extra 'detail' lavished on one ac, but it became boring quickly!

Now, the Bob is what it is. Someone pointed out that the complexities will either limit the types of ac or the 'additions' later.

I hope the new game is being 'planned' with expansions into other areas so that something like the current IL2 situation can be achieved. More 'theaters' more ac, that sort of thing. Linking 'them' would be a pre-requisite. I'd purchase a 'night-fighter' add-on, or other such things.

I don't know if there is a 'market' for the continuation of IL2. I just know that I'd like to see more additions made available.

Dennis

joeap
07-31-2008, 06:56 AM
I'm hopeless, I want accurate hi quality planes and lots of them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

DuxCorvan
07-31-2008, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Indianer.:
Once SOW is out IL2 will be a thing of nostalgia. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once SOW is out even cars will be a thing of nostalgia..

http://www.artstorm.net/portfolio/2004/futuristic-city/futurecity.jpg

Chivas
07-31-2008, 11:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dgk196:
Well, of course any sim based on a new engine and improved (higher res) graphics is going to 'play' better.

But to me, variety is key. One of the 'things' that makes IL2 is the variety. How successful would it have been if it only would have 'covered' the 'Russian front' and with only a limited number of ac types? I don't know if that question can ever be answered. But for me, I know it was important.

I don't know if this is correct........
but, if you have a limited 'theater' and a limited number of ac it begins to seem like those 'dedicated' sims! You know 'F16' or 'A10 warthog'! To limited, I liked the extra 'detail' lavished on one ac, but it became boring quickly!

Now, the Bob is what it is. Someone pointed out that the complexities will either limit the types of ac or the 'additions' later.

I hope the new game is being 'planned' with expansions into other areas so that something like the current IL2 situation can be achieved. More 'theaters' more ac, that sort of thing. Linking 'them' would be a pre-requisite. I'd purchase a 'night-fighter' add-on, or other such things.

I don't know if there is a 'market' for the continuation of IL2. I just know that I'd like to see more additions made available.

Dennis </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SOW "Storm of War" is a series

The first addition will be the "Battle of Britain."

Then next is most likely the "Med".

If the series is successfull it will cover more Theaters and Aircraft. The only way it will not be successfull is if the game is not copy protected enough to prevent whole sale stealing.

It is also possible the game could expand to cover controllable land and sea forces.

It should be the next benchmark in combat simming as I see no other product other than KOTS that will be able to compete. Hopefully there are other game producers ready to compete at some point.

The IL-2 engine will not be able to compete unless someone can understand and rewrite much of the code. Why anyone in our community would support something that could deter developers from producing better combat sims is beyond me.

csThor
07-31-2008, 12:05 PM
The basic problem of the Il-2 engine is that it has been inflated beyond what it could do without causing serious problems. As Oleg said once "What you build with your hands you break down with your @ss." The basic engine was written for a single aircraft type and a single mission type - the Il-2 and low-level tactical missions of ground-attack planes. Now it's doing infinitely more than that, but unfortunately it has become some kind of "jack of all trades". Which also translates into "master of none".

A new engine can incorporate experiences gained through the development of Il-2, things noone thought of when Il-2 1.0 was written a decade ago. To be honest any further additions to Il-2 are pointless (if you exclude the modders) simply because it's a chore, it's economically not advisable and doesn't smoothen rough edges but adds more of those.

Fehler
08-01-2008, 03:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
The basic problem of the Il-2 engine is that it has been inflated beyond what it could do without causing serious problems. As Oleg said once "What you build with your hands you break down with your @ss." The basic engine was written for a single aircraft type and a single mission type - the Il-2 and low-level tactical missions of ground-attack planes. Now it's doing infinitely more than that, but unfortunately it has become some kind of "jack of all trades". Which also translates into "master of none".

A new engine can incorporate experiences gained through the development of Il-2, things noone thought of when Il-2 1.0 was written a decade ago. To be honest any further additions to Il-2 are pointless (if you exclude the modders) simply because it's a chore, it's economically not advisable and doesn't smoothen rough edges but adds more of those. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree to all points. Look at how high alt is modeled, and you can quickly see that this sim was not designed to perform up there. Hopefully Oleg is giving altitude modelling a severe re-work as they design SoW.