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View Full Version : Top Ten Aces on Spits_vs_109s by K to D ratio



Jumoschwanz
01-23-2006, 05:16 PM
Qualification is having to have 25+ missions to prove they are no fluke.

II./JG1_VonNot 16.00 to 1 over 28 missions

=AFJ= Viper 11.33 to 1 over 28 missions

Mourneblade 7.50 to 1 over 27 missions

Jg2001Schnitzel 6.75 to 1 over 30 missions

Widgeon 5.83 to 1 over 30 missions

#401GRYPHON 5.00 to 1 over 37 missions

Jg2001_Ryman 5.00 to 1 over 29 missions

DEY_karlwb_UK 4.21 to 1 over 96 missions

313_OTU_Wedge 3.95 to 1 over 66 missions

RAF23-Buglord 3.80 to 1 over 31 missions



Spits_vs_109 is a full-real/full-difficulty server with the only concession being the speedbar compass probably to make up for hard to read compasses on some aircraft.

Consistently getting kills on this full-realisic-settings type of server and getting back home over a large number of missions is a real tough nut to crack and takes a special ability and insight into what you are doing, and an employment of historical tactics and skills.

congrats.....


Jumoschwanz

Jumoschwanz
01-23-2006, 05:16 PM
Qualification is having to have 25+ missions to prove they are no fluke.

II./JG1_VonNot 16.00 to 1 over 28 missions

=AFJ= Viper 11.33 to 1 over 28 missions

Mourneblade 7.50 to 1 over 27 missions

Jg2001Schnitzel 6.75 to 1 over 30 missions

Widgeon 5.83 to 1 over 30 missions

#401GRYPHON 5.00 to 1 over 37 missions

Jg2001_Ryman 5.00 to 1 over 29 missions

DEY_karlwb_UK 4.21 to 1 over 96 missions

313_OTU_Wedge 3.95 to 1 over 66 missions

RAF23-Buglord 3.80 to 1 over 31 missions



Spits_vs_109 is a full-real/full-difficulty server with the only concession being the speedbar compass probably to make up for hard to read compasses on some aircraft.

Consistently getting kills on this full-realisic-settings type of server and getting back home over a large number of missions is a real tough nut to crack and takes a special ability and insight into what you are doing, and an employment of historical tactics and skills.

congrats.....


Jumoschwanz

Grey_Mouser67
01-23-2006, 08:03 PM
congrats...I'm going to have to fly there a few more times I think!

VMF-214_HaVoK
01-23-2006, 08:48 PM
Spits vs 109s is one of the two best servers on HL. The other being Zekes vs Wildcats. If you have not flown either of these servers then you dont know what you are missing. Among these two you will find poeple who actually attempt the objectives. The missions are excellent and new ones are added on a regular basis. They also have some of the best admins a guest could ask for. Its quite obvious how I feel about them, the rest should do themselves a favor and check them out.

For those that dont know both servers are Warbirds of Prey servers. www.warbirdsofprey.org (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org)
I almost always fly ZvW for obvious reasons. Only have a handfull of sorties in Spit vs 109. It hard to spilt the time between them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jetbuff
01-23-2006, 09:15 PM
16:1 K/D ratio, 100% survival rate over 28 missions:
http://warbirdsofprey.game-host.org/fbd2stats-02/playerdetails.php?id=327

jds1978
01-23-2006, 09:21 PM
nice job people.

spits v 109's/ zekes v wildcats is the place to play.

as a total noob i'm getting my collective *** handed to me in ever increasing ways there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

the objectives and matchups are realistic. i felt like i was surrounded by total pro's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

D_bravo33
01-23-2006, 09:29 PM
Hmmm...I've flown on these servers a few times, and these aces owe me a debt of gratitude. I helped their ratios a bit. Congratulations.

aka DONB3397

DmdSeeker
01-23-2006, 09:31 PM
They are good servers; although I often log into Spits v 109s only to find it's an Eastern Front map with no spits http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

pourshot
01-23-2006, 10:58 PM
I like the server but I just cant see well enough to ID targets http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

jds1978
01-24-2006, 05:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">D_bravo33 Posted Mon January 23 2006 20:29
Hmmm...I've flown on these servers a few times, and these aces owe me a debt of gratitude. I helped their ratios a bit. Congratulations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

danjama
01-24-2006, 05:58 AM
Viper: I hate you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-24-2006, 06:32 AM
Easily two of my favs as well...when I get a chance to fly.


TB

carguy_
01-24-2006, 07:29 AM
http://cad.dsland.org/alive_pilots.php

http://lnx.tuttovola.it/alive_pilots.php


You were saying....? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Vipez-
01-24-2006, 11:57 AM
Fortunalety i'm such a modest person I won't dig up some old VEF2- or Bellum-war stats... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

HellToupee
01-24-2006, 03:03 PM
last time i flew on spits and 109s i got shot down 3 times by friendlies, and once by the enemy.

AFJ_Viper
01-24-2006, 03:44 PM
Hmmm friend pointed this thread out, nice stats guys

Yup i agree on the TK thing on the Spits 109s server it really does suck, ive died 3 times

- 1 A friendly spitfire shot me down
- My own flak shot me in the head
- Someone taxied into me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Continue and have fun in Spits 109s guys, my fav server! even though i dont fly there often.

vocatx
01-24-2006, 06:11 PM
Just so you know, team killing is not tolerated by the admins on WoP. Mistakes sometimes happen, but intentional Tkers are kicked and banned immediately. The admins there (Ccrashh, Joop, Faust, Chicago Chad, Gunrunner, to name a few) do a very good job of policing the servers. If you have any problems when there, just ask to speak to an admin.

Also, it helps a lot to be on Teamspeak. Most of us regulars use it religiously.

AFJ_Locust
01-24-2006, 06:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Consistently getting kills on this full-realisic-settings type of server and getting back home over a large number of missions is a real tough nut to crack and takes a special ability and insight into what you are doing, and an employment of historical tactics and skills. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jumoschwanz you think thats tough, try being a groundpounder in there with a positive KD ratio, everyone on the opposite team wants to eat your lunch.

The greatest thrill in the sim (for me anyway) is to bomb whatever the target is, then kill the guy/guy's trying to take you out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif the best part of it is using navagation to come into the target area smartly, while working in tandem with the fighters on comms most of the guys there are very good on bolth sides & realy look out for there jabojocks

Some of the best dam Groundpounders in this sim fly at Sv109
ChicagoChad
RAF238_Gunrunner
RAF238_Knight
ChicagoChad
Pepper
yehman
wizbang
hornet

Just to name a few & there teamwork is beyond exelent in most cases, the comms stay clean & everyone is in control

never doubt there df skill either or you'll end up on the wrong side of the gun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

S^ Groundpounders WON THE WAR !!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

AFJ_Locust
01-24-2006, 06:44 PM
Ahhhh I C Jumo is a ship killer S^

PS. VIPER SUXZZZ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

danjama
01-24-2006, 07:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AFJ_Locust:

PS. VIPER SUXZZZ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree 199%

BaldieJr
01-24-2006, 08:40 PM
I tried to fly there but that speedbar thing was too distracting. I can understand why new pilots might need it but old-sticks like me just can't concetrate on killing with those numbers blobbing all over the place.

Jumoschwanz
01-24-2006, 09:06 PM
Sorry about missing VonNnot with his 16 to 1 kill ratio. With a list of over 200 pilots to go through though, I am not surprised I missed one.

And Locust, I have all the respect in the world for ground-pounders, I myself go both ways! But this thread is just not really about ground pounders. Research it and find the best ones and give them a thread of their own, they deserve it for sure.

The rarity of pilots on full-real servers who can get five kills before they die, shows how tough a job this is. Likewise with ground-pounders and fighter jocks alike, having a bunch of missions under your belt and a bushel-basket of points means nothing more than you spent a lot of time on a server.
If you have 500 missions but died every other time or two you went out, that is not much of an accomplishment as anyone can take off and fly into a furball, blast a plane out of the air and then get shot down in-turn over and over again. And anyone can fly to a target and drop some ordinance on it then get taken out by some hazard too.

This is why I always thought if any of the stats kept by software on servers means anything, the Kill to Death ratio is the best indicator of a FIGHTER pilot who is trying to emulate some sort of real-life smarts and caution in getting the job done, AND getting his butt home in one piece to fly the next mission.

Jumoschwanz

Lordbutter4
01-24-2006, 11:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
This is why I always thought if any of the stats kept by software on servers means anything, the Kill to Death ratio is the best indicator of a FIGHTER pilot who is trying to emulate some sort of real-life smarts and caution in getting the job done, AND getting his butt home in one piece to fly the next mission.

Jumoschwanz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope..this is the worst statistic. Wanna know why?

1.High K/D ratios rarely venture out of thier respective zones. Why? Because if they did they might get shot down and captured (+1 Pilots Death).

2.High K/D ratios will never be low. Forget bombs, rockets, or helping anyone under thier magic altitude number. Most have very low "Bombs dropped" if any at all. This would violate #1.

3.Usually fly the best plane they can find. While its great to get every advantage you can, I have more respect for someone who gets consistant kills in a 51 then someone who only uses a d9.

4.Famous for disconnecting as your firing at them.

5.Usually steal kills as well. Or so they didnt notice it was already Pked and missing half its controls. Also will usually buzz right in front of you as your lining up your shot.

6.Most times if teams are off say 20 to 11, they will gladly jump on the 20. Now if thier favorite plane is on red and red is outnumbered, they will probably sign off.

7.They dont actually C.A.P a target, more along the lines as use it for bait. In rl, the idea was to STOP the enemy from hitting the target, not use the AAA to id and wait untill after they drop to jump them.

I could keep going..The best pilots (fighter) are the guys who can be counted on to follow you into that hard as hell target area, drop on target, cover your ***, fight off a few of the high k/d ratio players using the target area as bait, and then rtb. The guys who attempt to attack the mission goals instead of just waiting for some easy kills identified by the flak. While the high K/D ratio players all sit and circle, the ground pounders end the map. Great fighter pilots had missions to accomplish. The accomplished those missions and shot down aircraft in the process. Thats what made them great pilots.

Jetbuff
01-25-2006, 03:37 AM
Not necessarily true:
Doc's stats: (he's my wingie!)
Friendly Aircraft Kills: 1 (we ganged up on a TK pilot so he's not after points)
Enemy Static Aircraft Kills: 2 (i.e. he does not shy away from being deep behind enemy lines)
Tanks Destroyed: 1 (he does ground pounding too)
Artillery Destroyed: 2 (even the dangerous type)
Train Cars Destroyed: 12 (OK, so he won't pass up an easy kill, then again, who would?)
Ships Sunk: 1 (PS: it was a destroyer iirc)
Dropped Bombs: 34 (yep, your arguments stand to reason)
Types flown include 4 sorties in an He-111.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Jumoschwanz
01-25-2006, 06:46 AM
A great online pilot like GRYPHON(stats show dropped over a thousand bombs) and others can get a high KD ratio no matter what they do.

With 129 deaths out of 249 sorties, Lordbutter would be dead in less than two missions in real life, and wouldn't contribute jack-$hit to anything would he? In WWII they couldn't hit a refly button and take-off to the target area again and again like those who die every other mission in online servers. The stats pages are full of pilots with KD ratios of 2 to 1 and lower, there are thousands of them, they are common and this makes it average. It is very rare to find pilots with KD ratios in the 4 or 5 to 1 ratio or higher, there are only maybe 6 to 12 out or a thousand that do this regularly, so it is uncommon and special, and this is what this thread is taking note of, the special, not the average.

If you are like Ulrich Rudel, then we will write a book about you, he destroyed 500+ russian tanks alone, and lived to see the end of the war. Thousands died on the first mission or without ever damaging the enemy. This does not make them any less of men, they gave their lives for their countries and should be honored, but the Ulrich Rudels were special because of thier ability to get the job done and get home even after Hundreds or thousands of sorties.

According to Lordbutter, Ulrich Rudel, or any other great pilot that lived through WWII was some kind of cheat?

As in WWII, there are great online pilots that can get the job done and get home. And because they got home, they will have a special and unusually high kd ratio.

If you die every other mission or so, like I do, you are average and that is all there is to it.


It is child's play to rack up a huge score killing ground targets, even if you die 2 out of three missions like the big ground attack scorers on server stats pages. I can go get 700 points sinking a bunch of little boats or bombing up a supply column or train, even if it takes me a few deaths. Engaging in fighter to fighter combat and dying two out of three engagements is not going to net you any points at all, maybe 100 or 200 if you are lucky. Take away the big ground attack points for those at the top of stats pages, and they are left with jack-s hit.

Even if someone who has a billion point has a dismal Kill to death ratio, it is a he ll of a lot more work and time getting those points shooting down planes than doing ground attack.



Jumoschwanz

whiteladder
01-25-2006, 07:14 AM
Jumoschwanz,

Cut Lordbutter some slack, I don`t think he was in any way belittling Rudel or any other real life pilot,he was just pointing out what I think is a universal truth that statistics don`t always tell the whole truth.

You won`t find anybody more helpful on Spits and 109 than him, he`s a great organiser, he alway tries to accomplish the mission objective.

All he is pointing out is that it is possible to skew the statistics by flying in a particular way.

Jumoschwanz
01-25-2006, 07:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by whiteladder:


" don`t assume the people with the highest scores are point *****s, ground pounding for the sake of it."

I have the upmost respect for people who have a good K/D ratio.

Good Thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, we cannot assume anything, like Lordbutter assumes those with high KD ratios are all bad. If you have fun doing what you do that is the important thing.
But if you have a big head or think you are deserving of something because you racked up a bunch of points dying every 1.5 missions, then you ARE a mor on.

Jumoschwanz

whiteladder
01-25-2006, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">then you ARE a mor on </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sorry have I offended you in some way? Have I asked for any recognition?

Lordbutter4
01-25-2006, 09:47 AM
I have just shown you exactly why some pilots have high K/D ratios. Does that make them a better fighter pilot? You seem to think it does. So be it. Just remember the next time your looking for someone to bail you out of a jam and you look to that high K/D player and hes already hi-tailing it home, or too high to give any help to you.

I dont see how talking about Ulrich Rudel has anything to do with this conversation. But Ill go with it. You know why Ulrich Rudel was a great man? Because he went the extra mile. He destroyed 500 enemy tanks in the face of the enemy. He didnt wait for them to cross his lines, make sure he stayed totally away from enemy fighters (in fact I think he shot down 2), and he actually gave a **** about his wingmen. The fact that he destoryed 500 tanks is only the calling card that made him famous. His piloting skill has little to do with 500 tanks destroyed (but this number does
reinforce it.) Do i think hes cheating? Again, i have no idea what this statement is supposed to mean.

Because a player uses his wingmen as bait (and is the last one to live) he becomes a great pilot? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Lemme give you an example. I saw you online last night so ill use last nights map (overlord):

Its a fact on this map most red pilots tend to head right over the ships and fight(red freindly territory). Blue was outnumbered for a majority of the map(I think i mentioned this somewhere). Red had given up on attacking thier targets(most were flying spits now). Theres the stage of last nights map.

Myslef, Locust, Chad, and Griess (he switched at the end) are flying blue. Your favorite boys (401..Ex. Gryphon) are flying red spits. Blue has dominated ground targets all map, we are down to our last ones. Red Spits are now just sitting over the last ships, waiting for us to attack them so they can drop down (wow, using targets for bait). I a simple case repeated many times, I dive in after a ship. My bomb is on point, ships dead. Now at this point i have 2 or 3 spits on my 6 in a 109G. By myself, I reverse on 2 of them, shoot one down. While im doing this, your boy Gryphon could help, but no. Its much easier to wait, let your wingmen take the brunt, and just drop in and out as you please. That must make him the better pilot..lol..

Not to rip on Gryphon (you brought him into this) but lets take a look at that 1000 bombs dropped. You know why its 1000? Not from 1000 bombs dropped, add it up. He has 42 sorties. Kinda hard to drop 1000 bombs in 42 sorties with no bombers listed on you planes flown. Ahh but theres an IL2. If you know Spits, there is a mission called Ardennes Blitzkreig. On this mission red have IL2's to sub for a french bomber. The best loadout of that IL2 (which is listed in the brief) is the cassettes. That is a 100-150 small bomb drop per run. So if I divide it up, thats maybe 10 bombs dropped . Probably all on that map. (Red has only a Hurricane or Hawk to deal with 109 E). I can see exactly why someone might take an IL2 in that situation over a fighter (again, taking the best survivable plane on a map).

carguy_
01-25-2006, 10:34 AM
Lordbutter is partly right.I fly like Hartmann and rarely have any contribution to a mission that involves fighters taking bombs.

First of all,my mission is not dropping bombs.I take a fighter and I`m not obliged to take a bomb.

Second,I have always been going to be a specialist.I am a good 1v1 fighter pilot and a good AtoA team fighting.Bombing is simply not my job.

Third,thhe actual dot/LOD system greatly promotes planes that fly on low altitudes.I don`t see a thing below me, but when I go down there are suddenly 4 yaks around.
I cannot judge the situation hence I will not go there and play their game.

Fourth,Luftwaffe planes main advatage is climbrate.I will always start with alt advantage.Furthermore,my plane gives best performance above 3700m.I aint gonna fightYaks,Las and LaGGs @1600m,sorry.

Teamplay.If the guy fighting himself alone there low then he did a mistake.I aint goin there to get killed.That is simply stupid.I don`t know the situation yet I have to go there risking going against 4v2.When I`m on comms things are different cuz I know what enemy does and where is at the moment.

Bombers such as He111 flying @ 5000m for a bombrun is me favorite job.Close escort is not dangerous.We`re better at this altitude and if they want our bombers killed they have us on their six.

Don`t ever expect me to Jabo or cover anybody going @2000m.It`s a sueside.


Almost complete lack of chance to recognize current situation renders me unable to perform classic B&Z.

All you expect of me is playing alllied planes` game.No can do.

Lordbutter4
01-25-2006, 01:02 PM
Its not about playing axis or allies game. In spits vs 109's and Zekes vs. Wildcats, the atmosphere there is attempting to be more Co-op then just dogfight. Most players who play on spits vs 109's or zekes will tell you of seeing formations of bombers, divebombers, and even fighter formations. Its not unusual on a busy night to see a formation of 4 or 5 B25's winged up. I think the max we ever had was 11 or 12 Bettys all flying in formation heading to target. Imagine seeing that on any other DF server!

Now and axis or allied game? No..the idea is your fighting for your team, not yourself. If your escorting a formation of bombers flying at 15000, how can you be in any position to help them sitting at 30 or 25? The idea is to be with your team, help the team. Most high K/D ratio players dont care about the team, helping someone might get them killed. Exactly what in RL gets you a nice *** whooping by the rest of the squad.

SlickStick
01-25-2006, 01:22 PM
Very accurate depiction of life on stat-***** servers, Lordbutter. Unfortunately, to those folks, perception is 90% of reality in this game and also the internet for that matter, lol.

JtD
01-25-2006, 02:23 PM
Rudel did not destroy 500 tanks, he claimed 500 tanks. As always, there certainly is a diffrence.

Also, he had personal escorts, not like on Spits v 109 where you ask for help and get the answer "no". &lt;- still bitter about this

Otherwise a nice server, best no externals server I have tried.

Lordbutter4
01-25-2006, 03:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JtD:

Also, he had personal escorts, not like on Spits v 109 where you ask for help and get the answer "no". &lt;- still bitter about this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh..just asking the wrong people. Im always up for escort, and most times ill go ahead and fly with ya!

AFJ_Locust
01-25-2006, 05:06 PM
Jumo

I think butter is refering to the game not real life.

I tend to agree with butter here I see ALOT of what he said

The great part is when I see them capping the tgt at lower altitudes I jump in a fighter & go clear them out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

AFJ_Locust
01-25-2006, 05:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lordbutter4:
Its not about playing axis or allies game. In spits vs 109's and Zekes vs. Wildcats, the atmosphere there is attempting to be more Co-op then just dogfight. Most players who play on spits vs 109's or zekes will tell you of seeing formations of bombers, divebombers, and even fighter formations. Its not unusual on a busy night to see a formation of 4 or 5 B25's winged up. I think the max we ever had was 11 or 12 Bettys all flying in formation heading to target. Imagine seeing that on any other DF server!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

YOU NEVER WILL

the teamwork with bombers & fighters is unparaleled at Sv109.

Ive been flying this sim for 5+ years & never see the great teamwork of bombers that you find there on most occasions.

This is why its now the only place I fly online
kd ratio or not its all about the mission & how many targets I can kill

I wonder what my ground target to kill death ratio is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

vocatx
01-25-2006, 06:36 PM
Kill to death ratio is nice, but I personally believe to tell how good a fighter pilot is, check out his air to air gunnery stats. I'm doing this for fun, not stats. I'll jump in at five to one odds (and have on many occasions) to help a friend out of a spot. I don't pay much attention at all to my K/D ratio, but if I notice my a to a stat dropping, I concentrate on improving my gunnery. (I think the last time I looked at 'Butter's gunnery stat it was some obnoxious number like 12:1.) If you don't want to get shot down by Lordbutter, make sure you fly the side he is on.

By the way, I'm listed as 4H_V-man on Warbirds servers now. My K/D is under 1:1 I'm sure, but my gunnery stat is slightly above average. Like I said, I'm in it for the fun, as well as enjoying the company of some great guys, Lordbutter being among those I call my friends.

Grey_Mouser67
01-25-2006, 07:08 PM
Interesting perspective from all...Personally, I like the K/D ratio as one of the best...I could get better gunnery stats, but I'd sacrafice my own team mates because I often fire just to make an opponent move off a team mate or provoke a reaction...occassionally I sneak up behind someone, but I often find my quarry engaged with anther fighter. Total kills means only that you play alot...so I guess the only thing that matters is how you feel about you!

I find it refreshing to wade into a 4 vs. 1 and shoot all 4 enemies down! You can do that and live...once in awhile!

Some of the best pilots I know with high K/D ratios do not fly around at 25,000 ft racking up many hours with few kills...they actually enter a fight with an altitude advantage, kill, leave and re enter with an advantage. They fight to live, but fight none the less. They bail out when their plane is on fire and they try to evade when the going is not in their favor. They take chances because they are confident but they do not carelessly throw their lives away. They have superb gunnery skills and are excellent strategists and tacticians, they have an intimate knowledge of their aircraft as well as their opponents, they don't expect to kill every opponent, but they veiw escaping when the fight is not in their favor as a victory. To force another opponent away from a tactical advantage or to dictate the fight is a victory as well....that is my experience anyways.

The only thing I really find bothersome on these forums and buried within these statistics are those whose ego's and arrogance allow them to think that they've actually accomplished something when they kill a 42 class plane while flying a 45 plane...the "its the pilot, not the plane" crapola as they fly around in their Ta picking off Yak 1's etc...

K/D ratio, imho, is an important statistic and is indicative, but not all inclusive of a good pilot. I find that people who do not feel that way do not have high K/D ratio's. Really, I respect anyone who does not put themselves in some arien category of uber pilots, but excels in any category.

It is possible to get a lot of kills by flying alot, possible to have a high gunnery score by flying only nose mounted weapons and firing at extreme close range, possible to have high K/D ratio's by getting in the fastest plane on the map and never decend lower than 4,000 meters but those folks are the exception rather than the rule.

Salute again to those at the top of the list S!

RAF238thKnight
01-25-2006, 08:17 PM
So I guess im a mor on then. I try to escape in most engaments and survive, but some times you get into world of 3 109s and a 190 then I take 2 109s before the 190 hits me with one shell and my plane turns into confetty. I for one have been and will always try to survive had a 3.0 for a while but it dropped. thats ok with me. None of these mission are flown with any historical relavence.

For example fuel load in correct. Flight time non existant. No true defence and cover.

Lets not judge by stats at all and enjoy the game and if you think me a moron fly against me and your stay will be short.

KNIGHT

Viper2005_
01-25-2006, 10:15 PM
Fighter pilots make Movies.

Bomber pilots make History.

You pays your money and you takes your choice...


<span class="ev_code_RED">The best pilots do both.</span>

HellToupee
01-26-2006, 03:35 AM
Im with butter on this one, many of these high kd ppl often have next to no ground targets destoryed, often on maps where they are supposed to attack ull find half a team flying planes that cant even mount a bomb, and many of the ppl in planes that can will just pass and go back to dfin. These ppl flying around above targets refusing to defend it because bandits are "too low" for their liking that they might get killed.

Pinker15
01-26-2006, 03:54 AM
High kill/death ratio does not mean that someone is really good pilot. It only showing that hes good in high speed running tactic and count on help of friends arround because Spit is a way Uber than any 109 esspecially up high. So when U fly on 109 good kill death ratio can be archieved only by boom and run tactic and it dont needs alot of skill only patience and good team work. Only 1 vs 1 fighting are showing how good fighter pilot U are. There U can count only on yours skill, not on yours friends, aaa artilery or advantage in yours plane. Only skill.

RAF74_Poker
01-26-2006, 04:59 AM
Quite frankly, the only mark of a great online pilot is when someone on TS says something like: "****, XXXX just joined, watch out for him/her, they'll tear you up."

Respect from other players online, that's what defines a good online pilot.

S!

Manuel29
01-26-2006, 06:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pinker15:
it dont needs alot of skill only patience and good team work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMHO Patience and teamwork are very important skills in a pilot.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pinker15:
Only 1 vs 1 fighting are showing how good fighter pilot U are. There U can count only on yours skill, not on yours friends, aaa artilery or advantage in yours plane. Only skill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems a FarWest story http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think a good pilot is who think to his life, his friend's lifes, objective and after these airkills.

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-26-2006, 06:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RAF74_Poker:
Quite frankly, the only mark of a great online pilot is when someone on TS says something like: "****, XXXX just joined, watch out for him/her, they'll tear you up."

Respect from other players online, that's what defines a good online pilot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Agreed. There are plenty of guys out there with a 1:1 (or so) K/D ratio that I look out for when they're online. That doesn't mean they're untouchable, but you definitely know you're in a brawl with a pilot of better-than-average skill as soon as you engage.

How about posting some of your favorite opponents?

Mine (in no uncertain order):

Mostly taken from Spits-vs-109's WBoP server

Chicagochad
RAF238thGunrunner
RAF238KNight
Lordbutter

To name a few. I have an unwritten doctrine that I try to apply whenever I fly, but it seems to get raised a level when I know the competition is of a higher level...K/D notwithstanding.

TB

S!

edit I just went back and read most of this thread and can see both sides of the coin. I have a decent K/D ratio and maybe slightly better than average gunnery, but take most opportunities to cover the bombers or even drop a pickle or two of my own. I'll fly anything and have, but like most, my preference is to fly fighters and I will (almost) always fly for the side that needs pilots and will often change sides as the other math-deficient pilots join and contribute to what may be unbalanced sides already.

I fly with Lordbutter when I can albeit lately I haven't flown much at all and he's a team-player. That's what this online sim is really all about in my humble opinion.


TB

Jetbuff
01-26-2006, 06:26 AM
There is no denying that a high K/D ratio pilot may indeed exhibit many of the supposed bad behaviours listed by LordButter. Then again, I know for a fact that VonNot, while having a healthy respect for his virtual life, is primarily concerned with the team-effort. Automatically assuming that a high K/D ratio implies a selfish disregard for teamwork (and vice versa) is most definitely incorrect.

Grey_Mouser67
01-26-2006, 06:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jetbuff:
There is no denying that a high K/D ratio pilot may indeed exhibit many of the supposed bad behaviours listed by LordButter. Then again, I know for a fact that VonNot, while having a healthy respect for his virtual life, is primarily concerned with the team-effort. Automatically assuming that a high K/D ratio implies a selfish disregard for teamwork (and vice versa) is most definitely incorrect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

I always thought that carrying out your mission and surviving while killing opponents on ground and in air, depending on your mission is what is important.

I fly with many very good pilots, and most of those that carry high K/D ratio's aren't up in the clouds aloof and far away...quite the opposite...they are engaging and killing opponents at a very rapid rate without making dumb mistakes like colliding, snap stalling in the ground, losing their wing in a high speed manuever etc....

Reality is that most people who put their mind to it can have good K/D ratio's if they choose to...because the choose not to does not make pilots with high ratio's less...in fact, it illustrates their prowess in things tactical as well as their knowledge of the aircraft and weapons.

I just don't buy the high k/d ratio doesn't mean anything...sounds like its coming from someone who doesnt have one but wishes he did and can't come to grips with his own inadequacy...when in fact it really isn't inadequacy at all, but rather effort.

Jumoschwanz
01-26-2006, 07:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jetbuff:
There is no denying that a high K/D ratio pilot may indeed exhibit many of the supposed bad behaviours listed by LordButter. Then again, I know for a fact that VonNot, while having a healthy respect for his virtual life, is primarily concerned with the team-effort. Automatically assuming that a high K/D ratio implies a selfish disregard for teamwork (and vice versa) is most definitely incorrect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second that absolutely,

I think if everyone cared for their virtual life as much as a real pilot in WWII did, then there is nothing you could do except for adopt historical tactics of engagement.
Those who get killed every mission or two are sure not being too careful, and they are either doing something wrong, or they are sacrificing themselves out of boredom or the search for fun.

%hit gunnery can be a good indicator of gunnery and nothing else really. I have had great gunnery stats in the past, but being too stingy with the ammo has made me miss deflection shots and other opportunities. Lately I have been trying to use it up, that is what it is there for.
Out of all the stats that can be kept for an online server, the K to D ratio is the best indicator to me of the quality of a virtual pilot.
Many can get the job done, but getting it done and living is a rare talent on any stat page, and has always been most impressive to me. If you don't think so, see if you can go onto Spits_vs_109 and get five kills and be an ace before you cash in. I don't care if you do everything the detractors whine about or not, you probably won't make it. If what Lordbutter says is true about the integrity of those with high K to D ratio, and it is just something that any cheat can do, then why aren't there a ton of these alleged "cheats" in the stats with high ratios? Because he is full of ****.
Out of over 2000 pilots on Spits_vs_109, there is not two dozen over 4 to 1. So where are all the stats of these cheaters?
I have flown on this type of server almost exclusively for the past 4+ years and I KNOW these pilots, and I know the great integrity many of them possess, and I have always seen the really great ones end up having one thing in common, a high K to D ratio.....


Jumoschwanz

Jumoschwanz
01-26-2006, 08:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RAF238thKnight:
So I guess im a mor on then. I try to escape in most engaments and survive, but some times you get into world of 3 109s and a 190 then I take 2 109s before the 190 hits me with one shell and my plane turns into confetty. I for one have been and will always try to survive had a 3.0 for a while but it dropped. thats ok with me. None of these mission are flown with any historical relavence.

For example fuel load in correct. Flight time non existant. No true defence and cover.

Lets not judge by stats at all and enjoy the game and if you think me a moron fly against me and your stay will be short.
KNIGHT </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Knight I am not judging anyone because of stats, I said you are a mo ron if you "have a big head or think you are deserving of something because you rack up a bunch of points dying every 1.5 missions".
I do not think you have a big head or think you are deserving if your attitude is F*(&)ck the stats right?

I know you are one of the best at flying around on the deck stall-flying Spits and Hurri's with Hispano cannons against less manuverable aircraft and picking them off with 4 Hispano cannons....



Jumoschwanz

anon-pilot
01-26-2006, 08:32 PM
First off, a good Virtual Pilot does not go around touting about how good he is. He doesn't need to. Everyone knows who he is and how good he is.

Anyone that goes into a forum and posts how they are a great virtual pilot is full of it. They are just chest pounders looking for some validation. Their skills do not prove them to be a good virtaul pilot. Why, See above.

Stats do not tell you squat about a virtual pilot. There are WAY to many variables missing to fully understand those numbers. You do not know the circumstances of how a player got all those kills. It is WAY to easy to pad Stat Numbers, be it Air Kills or ground Kills. I have seen on MANY servers a player will go into it when there is no one around and start taking out ground targets with no opposition. Sure he is gonna have one hella good looking ground stat, but is he a good ground pounder? A good pilot does not need stats to show how good he is. Everyone knows how good he is. Best example of this is when a particular player joins a server and you start hearing on comms "Oh ****, &lt;insert name here&gt; just joined the server". That is the best indication of WHO are the good virtual pilots.

Secondly, flying well on a "Full Difficult" server does not make you one of the best. I have seen many a players go from a "Full Difficult" server to a No Cockpit or Limited Icon server and get their virtual butts handed to them on a silver platter. They do not have the "Full Difficult" settings to hide behind anymore. They must now FLY to live and win. They cannot use the Limited Visuals we have in this simulator to get away from someone. They cannot use the Limited Visuals we have in this simulator to sneak up on someone because a players SA is serverly hampered by the lack of perpheral vision and reflective surfaces. Sorry guys, but the reason it's been called "Full Difficult" is because it is truely more DIFFICULT the see things then it is in real life.

S~

BfHeFwMe
01-26-2006, 09:08 PM
Stats schmatz, they're so FUBAR as to be pointless, pun intended. True stat hound won't touch twin engines with a 10 mile pole. So many busted things like the entire Stuka series, one little ping of flak with no percievable damage and your statistically dead, even though you smashed the target and landed safely. The list goes on, lose one engine from contact or flak in the 38 and your an automatic death.

There's no standard to even begin a rational comparison. Not to mention kills which never log in the stats, yet clearly you popped, even getting the destroyed message. Score system is carp and inconsistant. The rewards are far greater to throw your ride away than recover it, ludicrous from day one.

Throw score away and never look at site again, be sure's. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Badsight.
01-26-2006, 10:32 PM
anyone - regardless of skill , can be jumped while distracted - like typing or lining up for a shot

but , & it has merit . . .

kills to death stats per sorties flowen is a good stat measure for a fighter plane user

if you get good kills per sortie , as in more than 2 kills per sortie , & it takes a large number of sorties before you get plinked - odds are your a good virtual pilot

AFJ_Locust
01-26-2006, 11:33 PM
When we have the right guys online & on comms we alwayes try to use large flights of Bombers/Fighterbombers and we ask for fighter cover..... but because theres so many germans capping the target its very hard to keep a high kd ratio as a fighter/bomber.

KD ratio means jack in my world

If someone wants to show how good they are the ONLY way is 1 v 1 on a map desighned for the occasion same ac co altitude same fuel load same guns.

Then we have a measuring stick

Then we have some fun

If I wanted I could maintain very high KD ratio
Never fly a bomber never be part of the MISSION
just cruise around at alt picking of hangers here & there, wich I do, do that on occasion because its fun, other times I grab a spit & go t&b at lower altitudes, other times in a B25 formation at 20,000 or grab a fw & go on headhunting patrol.....

The great thing about this sim is theres so many rolls to play, so much fun to be had doing differant things......

Personaly I think the best Pilots are the ones who can fly all types of missions and fly them well with good coms & navagational awarness for red or blue... and working together as a unit

Not a lonewolf

1 v 1 for skill test be sure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

ronison
01-27-2006, 12:54 AM
You know about a year ago I watched a "Ultamet fighting" show, really not into that kind of thing but it was on, and saw something that I would have to say applys here.

There were two guys going for 1 million a new car and a contract for a year or two. Both fighters entered the ring wanting the win. Both you could tell shortly after they stated didnt so much care for the money car or career but wanted to just win the fight. Both gave it their all, one won one didnt.......

In the end the fight officials awarded both a contract and each 1 million dollars. The winer got the car the looser got one of the officials cars.

Now how does this apply to this post... it does because the true "winner" on stats is the guy that gives it his all. It doesnt matter if he has a 1:1 raitio with high or low points. It doesnt matter if he has a high 16:0 raitio with again high or low stats.

It has to do with if he stays true to the simulation and fights with his all. Many of true the WWII aces, ground and air, would never have delivered downed aircraft or even destroyed targets if the other guy had not been there. The other guy being the one that never made it home.

If the "Ace" were to fly into a fur ball with 6 other planes alone most of the time he would never come home. If that same ace went in with friends, even if thoes friends didnt come home they did their job by distracting the enemy long enough to get the job done.

Thoes virtual pilots, the ones that put out for thier team with high or low stats, are the true "Best pilots". Some have high K/D raitios some dont. But you all know who it is that is willing to do what it takes to get it done and you also know thoes that will bug out as soon as the odds just dont look right.

Respect thoes that give it their all and loath thoes that cut corrners to "save their skin". Because in the long run its thoes that give it their all that will help you accomplish what it is your there to do on the server.... and for most that is to have fun!

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-27-2006, 06:55 AM
Stats should be used the same as a religious doctrine...A guideline for whatever application they effect. Not typically taken at face value or as the "final say". To say they have NO merit or application is a cop-out. Conversely, if you place total value on them (or any aspect of them) then you're looking at them with seriously rose-colored glasses.

Fly and have fun...period. If the stat aspect makes this sim more fun (which for many it does) then great. If they're meaningless to you, ignore them. Simple enough.

TB

msalama
01-27-2006, 09:12 AM
Sounds good. What planesets & theatres do they have @ Spits vs. 109s (apart from those 2 of course)?

Lordbutter4
01-27-2006, 09:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jetbuff:
There is no denying that a high K/D ratio pilot may indeed exhibit many of the supposed bad behaviours listed by LordButter. Then again, I know for a fact that VonNot, while having a healthy respect for his virtual life, is primarily concerned with the team-effort. Automatically assuming that a high K/D ratio implies a selfish disregard for teamwork (and vice versa) is most definitely incorrect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second that absolutely,

I think if everyone cared for their virtual life as much as a real pilot in WWII did, then there is nothing you could do except for adopt historical tactics of engagement.
Those who get killed every mission or two are sure not being too careful, and they are either doing something wrong, or they are sacrificing themselves out of boredom or the search for fun.

%hit gunnery can be a good indicator of gunnery and nothing else really. I have had great gunnery stats in the past, but being too stingy with the ammo has made me miss deflection shots and other opportunities. Lately I have been trying to use it up, that is what it is there for.
Out of all the stats that can be kept for an online server, the K to D ratio is the best indicator to me of the quality of a virtual pilot.
Many can get the job done, but getting it done and living is a rare talent on any stat page, and has always been most impressive to me. If you don't think so, see if you can go onto Spits_vs_109 and get five kills and be an ace before you cash in. I don't care if you do everything the detractors whine about or not, you probably won't make it. If what Lordbutter says is true about the integrity of those with high K to D ratio, and it is just something that any cheat can do, then why aren't there a ton of these alleged "cheats" in the stats with high ratios? Because he is full of ****.
Out of over 2000 pilots on Spits_vs_109, there is not two dozen over 4 to 1. So where are all the stats of these cheaters?
I have flown on this type of server almost exclusively for the past 4+ years and I KNOW these pilots, and I know the great integrity many of them possess, and I have always seen the really great ones end up having one thing in common, a high K to D ratio.....


Jumoschwanz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Lol..this is getting funny.

1. If everyone cared as much as real WWII pilots did, most of us wouldnt be flying. But heres the kicker. WWII pilots took off in sorties to accomplish something. Some ground pounded, some flew escorts, some sweeps, interception, maybe patrols. Mission orientated. Air kills happened in missions, they were not THE mission (aside from interception). Historical tatics of engagement? Sure, lets see some formations...lets see some nice group fights. But thats not what you are talking about. Your talking about flying lone-wolf and bouncing on each other like a bunch of ninnes. Altitude contests are such a measure of skill.

2.I agree surviving a mission is quite impressive. But not sitting around in freindly territory waiting to bounce someone. A player that heads into the lions den, accomplishes his mission, and survives is the quality pilot. Not someone sitting in safety with a quick hand on the eject button just in case.

3.You still dont understand. On spits, WE DONT CARE ABOUT K/D RATIOS. The core group of spits/109 pilots are mission oriented. Most missions are ended because of goals accomplished. Not time or pilot count. Its only the new players who came from other servers that still have this "look at my high K/D ratio" mentality. Most of us as you notice fly offensive missions. Anyone who is offensive will have a low K/D ratio. I guess the war was won by defensive pilots though eh? Maybe thats why there isnt a server full of high K/D ratios, becuase we simply dont care, its not something to us thats impressive. Why isnt it impressive? Because of every reason i listed before.

4.Flow on spits for 4 years eh? Thats interesting. Server didnt pick back up till a couple of months ago. Before the pick up it was completely dead. Would this of been in the 4 years as well? It was dead for about 6 months, so maybe you flew against yourself? Again, since i have been playing on this server (zekes and spits) for quite some time I might be a better qualified to spot out playstyles that those players you admire have. I listed all those attributes after months of playing with your high K/d ratio players.

Another example from spits, the other night:

Map is Operation Husky.
Im flying blue, blues outnumbered. A few of us are attacking the ships and dealing with tons of sea and spitfires. We bring the ship count down to 60%. Alot of players leave, so reds outnumbered. A few others are on comms so i jump over to red to chat and play. Blue never again attacks a ship. In fact, blue barely leaves the AAA protection of the island. They just sit in AAA protection, wait for offensive allies to come in (drop their bombs) and jump on them. In this case I guess the better pilots are on blue right? Cause its the K/D ratio that tells who the better pilot is.

Again, no disrespect to players who attack targets AND have a good survivability. That is the sign of a great pilot. I just dont see a reason to acknowledge pilots who sit in safety all round jumping on pilots who actually are trying to accomplish the mission should be praised as "great pilots." Give me a guy who will follow me no matter what over some "mor on" with a 10:1 K/D ratio anyday.

Grey_Mouser67
01-27-2006, 09:54 PM
I'll take the guy with a 10:1 kill ratio following me...because when I have a bandit on my six, he will actually hit the darn plane instead of me!

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-28-2006, 08:29 PM
I almost never RTB until I'm winchester (out of ammo for those not 'in the know') or my plane/pilot is injured to a point of being ineffective.

Staying in the 'kill-zone' with a bird that's ineffective (i.e. controls shot out, smoking to beat the band, engine grinding like a grist mill etc,...) is silly. There are plenty of times when i've been winchester and stayed as long as I'm on coms to try to 'wipe' a bandit off a friendly, but without guns or a good engine, it makes little sense and I'll RTB to get a fresh one.

Stats allow for goal-oriented missions...this is good. For those who attempt to satisfy mission objectives, kudos. If I have a good bomber leader, I'll fly a grpound attack mission, but my flying time recently has been so sparse that learning the best route for ingress/egress is nonexistent, so I'll com it up and cover the dedicated mudmovers to the best of my ability...which is substantial at times if I do say so myself. When a friendly calls in a bandit and I have visual. I'll do anything in my ability to protect him...period.


TB

Jetbuff
01-28-2006, 10:02 PM
What book says the mission comes above your virtual life? Unless you are playing a kamikaze pilot, surviving is part and parcel of the mission. Otherwise, seeing as this is not a real war, perhaps 'sacrificing' your virtual life for the sake of the mission objective is a bit much eh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

There is no rule that says caring for your virutal life means you have to stay in friendly territory and only worry about easy kills. As for lonewolfing, it is actually counterproductive to survival; it's 10 times easier to stay alive with 1 or more wingmen. Go to the CoT website (http://cot.jg1.org/) and see how mission orientation need not be at odds with survival.

What does a high K/D ratio say? It says the owner of said ratio is someone who values survival and is probably employing realistic tactics: E, position, surprise, numerical superiority, SA to name a few. Yes, he can be a point-wh0re too and a 'ninny' but that is most certainly not always the case. I aspire to one day get my K/D ratio high enough to be worth quoting; till then I'll just quote my wingman's numbers! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

PS: If bouncing was 'ninny' that means 90% of WWII aces were such.

carguy_
01-29-2006, 06:23 AM
I suspect they would like to fly Kamikaze.Afteer all you give contribution to war,you die for mission objectives. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

tomtheyak
01-29-2006, 06:49 AM
I think sometimes that the terms 'Ace' and 'Excellent Pilot' are too often regarded as one and the same.

Excellent Pilot - a person who has intuitive control of his/her aircraft through either inherent ability and/or much experience; this means well above average hand eye co-ordination, speed of reflex and reaction and a sensitivity of control - great formation and aerobatic pilots for example. Also understands the behaviour of their a/c at the edges of the flight envelope at is able to deftly manipulate the a/c at this point.

'Ace/Experten' - superior tactical analysis of air combat situations, often (but not necessarily) excellent markmanship, a highly developed sense of Situational Awareness and a in depth knowledge of his aircrafts advantages/disadvantages regarding a specific opponent. Oh, and plenty of luck!

I have read many stories of pilots being respected for their aerobatic prowess but having trouble in the air combat arena - they are lacking in one of the key attribues that makes a good combat pilot.
At the same time I am sure there are some great aces whose aerobatic flying might get them grounded!

Sometimes one pilot will have all the attributes of both these definitions i, and that is a very dangerous opponent. But I feel the majority of us have a mixture. The guys who Z&B and then run are doing exactly what the book perscribes. Doesnt make them bad pilots. It makes them good combat pilots.

So what if they cant make a FW swap ends faster than a zero, or outclimb a 109 in a gladiator - they fight to their planes limitations and most importantly they probably understand their own as pilots.

I fly to get as many kills without dying - thats the point, is it not?

Jetbuff
01-29-2006, 08:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:
So what if they cant make a FW swap ends faster than a zero, or outclimb a 109 in a gladiator - they fight to their planes limitations and most importantly they probably understand their own as pilots.

I fly to get as many kills without dying - thats the point, is it not? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That most certainly is the point for me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif