PDA

View Full Version : flying the p51 online...



GH_Klingstroem
10-13-2007, 10:03 AM
As somew people here would know, I fly the p51 online and I do very well in it...
I have two tracks to download for people to watch how to use it in il2.

Both sorties are from Warclouds western front on hyperlobby online and both of them are around 7-8 kills each.

If anyone is interested the tracks can be found under our newly made squad site
http://50calibersixguns.com/Downloads.html

Oh and btw, we need more pilots... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

GH_Klingstroem
10-13-2007, 10:03 AM
As somew people here would know, I fly the p51 online and I do very well in it...
I have two tracks to download for people to watch how to use it in il2.

Both sorties are from Warclouds western front on hyperlobby online and both of them are around 7-8 kills each.

If anyone is interested the tracks can be found under our newly made squad site
http://50calibersixguns.com/Downloads.html

Oh and btw, we need more pilots... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

DKoor
10-13-2007, 10:06 AM
Mmmmmmmmmmmm...........trackshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

msalama
10-13-2007, 10:21 AM
Hey, k3wl http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Now I've always sucked as a Pony jock myself, but I've still seen enough folks do just brilliantly with it O/L in order to think that maybe it after all _isn't_ the piece of carp some people claim it is...

S! & thanks for sharing. Will take a look later on.

Sturm_Williger
10-13-2007, 10:39 AM
Being on the receiving end in Warclouds, I know it isn't a piece of carp.

Thanks for posting these Kling, it's always interesting seeing how people get the most out of a plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

GH_Klingstroem
10-13-2007, 10:48 AM
Well this type of fighting, although may not fit everyone┬┤s style, will most of the time let me return to base with a few kills and without taking a single hit.

I think I get shot down at the end in one of the tracks, but thats when im alone vs 3 190s...

buzzsaw1939
10-13-2007, 01:02 PM
CH_Klingstroem... I want to thank you for posting those, I've been wondering what it's like to fly online, now I have a better idea.

my first thought is, how do you see those guys so far away? and how do you know who's who when you go after them? I think my 17 inch screen would be why I can't see them, but how about the who's who? I would love to try this, but I don't want to be just connon foder! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

GH_Klingstroem
10-13-2007, 01:17 PM
Actually I dont know how I can see them cuz noone else does even people standing behind me when im flying. im running 1200*960 on a 19" screen. My videocard is a Nvidia8800GTS.

U can see who is who by looking at the icons. Friendlies give names and enemies will give u plane type.

Stiletto-
10-13-2007, 01:35 PM
"A Rabbit Pilot again... Typical P-51" Don't you get sick of people that act like that? As if you want to fight with some kind of rules of chivalry and not follow tactics that suit your plane. Who is going to take a FW-190 into a turn fight with an I-16? I'd expect the pilot who quoted your Mustang tactics to say something similar if you didn't try to turn fight him if he was in a bi-plane.

GH_Klingstroem
10-13-2007, 01:46 PM
Huh what was that Stiletto? Didnt get what u really wanted to say...??? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

MrMojok
10-13-2007, 01:58 PM
He means the way people will berate you in the chat bar, if you fly your plane to its strengths(but not fighting the fight he wants).

You dive in with superior speed in your p-51, land several hits, and zoom up and away. The guy you left behind, in a slower but better-turning airplane, types in the chatbar "COME BACK AND FIGHT COWARD!!!1111"

Great tracks, BTW http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Von_Rat
10-13-2007, 03:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
As somew people here would know, I fly the p51 online and I do very well in it...
I have two tracks to download for people to watch how to use it in il2.

Both sorties are from Warclouds western front on hyperlobby online and both of them are around 7-8 kills each.

If anyone is interested the tracks can be found under our newly made squad site
http://50calibersixguns.com/Downloads.html

Oh and btw, we need more pilots... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i havent looked at the trks yet, but if you can get 7-8 kills a sortie in p51 you must not of been doing it very often according to wc stats.

now snarks the p51 pilot whose traks id like to see. about 2.5 t/s and sixty somthing completion is pretty dam good.

of course you have ten times his missions in p51. his score would certainly drop off a fair amount with the same number of missions you have.

as much as i hate to agree with helltoupee i think he's right when he says that no matter what your score is in a p51, you'll do even better in almost any other plane.

GH_Klingstroem
10-13-2007, 08:11 PM
yes I have seen Snarks online! He is really good in it!

Xiolablu3
10-14-2007, 12:35 PM
Well done Kling!

COuld someone explain to me what this 'completion' thing is on Warclouds pls?

buzzsaw1939
10-14-2007, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
Actually I dont know how I can see them cuz noone else does even people standing behind me when im flying. im running 1200*960 on a 19" screen. My videocard is a Nvidia8800GTS.

U can see who is who by looking at the icons. Friendlies give names and enemies will give u plane type. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was an honest question about seeing them in the distance, thanks for the honest answer! comeing from the real world, I never thought of the zoom feature. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

DustyBarrels77
10-14-2007, 05:26 PM
can you show us some one second burst kills and more then 5-6 aerial kills vs humans?

thx

GH_Klingstroem
10-14-2007, 11:34 PM
well that is exactly what I wanted to show in those tracks (i.e many kills vs humans online on the most difficult server on hyperlobby)... However my avegrage is probably around 2 kills per sortie. What I am saying is just that it IS possible to stay alive and get kills in the p51 in this game...
What more would u like to see Dustybarrels77?

I will post more tracks shortly!

Von_Rat
10-15-2007, 04:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Well done Kling!

COuld someone explain to me what this 'completion' thing is on Warclouds pls? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its the percentage of sorties that you actually land your plane back at a friendly af.

Von_Rat
10-15-2007, 04:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
well that is exactly what I wanted to show in those tracks (i.e many kills vs humans online on the most difficult server on hyperlobby)... However my avegrage is probably around 2 kills per sortie. What I am saying is just that it IS possible to stay alive and get kills in the p51 in this game...
What more would u like to see Dustybarrels77?

I will post more tracks shortly! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

with the new scoring system your t/s would be well over 2.0 if you were killing 2 planes per sortie on average. of course this is assuming you dont get shotdown very often. getting shotdown or even worse killed, will drasticly reduce your t/s.

GH_Klingstroem
10-15-2007, 07:32 AM
hehe yes that is if you dont feck up alot in the beginning... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I have a tendency to keep on flying after i have got 2 kills if I have alot of fuel left. Usually that results in me getting killed trying to help someone. Most of the times I die when I feck up and collide with someone during BnZ...

Freelancer-1
10-15-2007, 08:42 AM
I've only had a chance to watch one of the tracks so far, but I must say I'm impressed.

Warclouds is a tough server to 'lone wolf' on and you did it well. Although I never liked the P51 much, after sitting in your cockpit, I've gotten an appreciation for what it can do when flown well.

You are already a force to be reckoned with and god help us if you ever get a TrackIR.

Well done mate and thanks for the tracks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

DooDaH2007
10-15-2007, 10:26 AM
ThanX for posting the tracks...


Actually, I have watched the track Snark posted on the warcloudsforum and he also doesn't use trackir...

Using the keyboard-viewsystem is way faster, really, but it gives me a headache just watching the track, with the speed the views are used...

VN-philong
10-15-2007, 10:28 AM
~S~ GH_KLingstrom,

Please take a look of the track:
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/16998/WC-P51-2Bf1...W190-Kills-ntrk.html (http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/16998/WC-P51-2Bf109-FW190-Kills-ntrk.html)

I must say that I'm a NOOB to this game even I've played it for two years now. I just started flying P51 for about 4 months. To be honest, I didn't know how I was able to turn with the Bf109 and FW190 in that session. I got killed most of the time when I flew on WC.

~S~

roybaty
10-15-2007, 10:58 AM
I don't fly much lately, but the last time I flew online I grabbed a Mustang (I hardly fly this, I mostly fly Axis, but the Allies were woefully outnumbered on this server).

I flew it like a Fw-190D high and fast, picked a target dove at 420mph, mauled it, and climbed away I was freakin' untouchable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, I have to say I don't think the Fw-190D has a similar sustained zoom climb though. I kept thinking "Either I really suck in the Dora, or the P-51 handles much better in this game."

GH_Klingstroem
10-15-2007, 12:33 PM
thx guys...

GH_Klingstroem
10-15-2007, 12:34 PM
am downloading the track now Philong! will watch it right away! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I must also add one thing to everyone that watch my tracks...
The track feauture in Il2 doesnt record the trim status of the aircraft. Therefor it will look like the aircraft is out of trim (the ball is all the way to the left) on the track while it was very much centered at all times during the recorded mission!!

DooDaH2007
10-15-2007, 07:31 PM
I highly reccomend all download the two tracks by GH_Klingstroem...

I just finished watching the first...

Great lessons on not beeing greedy and keeping energy high...
Excellent example of use of prop pitch instead of throttle as a way of managing engine ...

MrMojok
10-15-2007, 07:43 PM
It looks like .ntrks don't properly record the K-14 gunsight, either.


I loved your tracks, Kling. I have watched each of them several times.

GH_Klingstroem
10-16-2007, 12:00 AM
Im not sure about the K14 gunsight MrMojok since I dont use it, but I take ur word for it!

I recommend to watch the track without external as u will then see, when I zoom in and out and u will see exactly what I saw when flying the mission.
Im sorry that the tracks are pretty long and sometimes boring during climb out and when looking around for example...

MrMojok
10-16-2007, 12:17 AM
Oh, I saw you zooming in and out and looking around. I always watch people's tracks that way. But I thought maybe you were using the K-14 and it just wasn't coming across on the .ntrk. I have seen that happen before with .ntrks people shared with me.

You have figured out how to get the most out of this plane, much better than I, but let me give you one word of advice if I may--- play with the K-14.

What I usually do is select the sight option "normal+gyro". So you have the normal sight picture you are used to, but also the gyro sight is there for use in certain situations. It looks weird at first, but you will get used to it.

GH_Klingstroem
10-16-2007, 02:36 AM
ok iwll try the K14. Problem I find with it is that targets very seldom stay at the same distance and for the K14 to be effective ur targets wingtips must be on the circle at all times. As far as I understand that required me to keep changing the size of the gunsight every single second in a dogfight. That would just be too many buttons to take care of added to the trim, prop pitch and power... But will try!

VBF-12_sluggo
10-16-2007, 06:58 AM
Thanks for the track. One question I have is the use of the prop pitch. Is it really that usefull, I noticed you are using it to climb. Which if it really works would make sense. Also in the dive. What are your thoughts on where and when to use it and at what level. Is there a difference between 65% and 75%. I have done my own tests but really would like some other opinions.

Thanks

Viper2005_
10-16-2007, 08:09 AM
The K-14 doesn't require you to always keep the target's wingtips on the diamonds any more than the N-9 requires you to keep the dot on the target.

The K-14 works by simply telling you where your rounds would be after 1 TOF at the set range.

So, if you're chasing a 190 and it's twice as big as the K-14's diamonds, it's going to be about half the distance you first thought of. Therefore if you put said 190 about half way between your fixed and gyro sights, the chances are that your rounds will hit.

With some very simple mental algebra it is possible to use a K-14 sight set to a fixed range over a wide variety of ranges. Indeed, I think that the K-14 is more useful like this because you can also then use it for convergence estimation...

GH_Klingstroem
10-16-2007, 08:29 AM
hm will try this Viper!! thx!
Sluggo. The RPM indicator has a green area up to 2700RPM. Above this the engine is in a uncomfortable area and will overheat!

On the 109 and the fw190 there is a thing called Kommandogerńt that automatically controls the RPM for you. In the p51 not so! U will manually have to do this. Keeping the engine at 2500-2700rpm will make the plane create less drag at high speed and at the same time will let you fly with radiator closed. (to give even less drag) However the slower u go, the more proppitch u need. Also when I am climbing vertically I alsways use PP100!
It works for me, and should work for others as well... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

buzzsaw1939
10-16-2007, 09:09 AM
I thought the 51 had a constant speed prop? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

GH_Klingstroem
10-16-2007, 09:51 AM
so did I Buzzaw... The planes I have flown in real life have had CSP and then u set a RPM and it stays there... These fighters dont it seems... Dunno if its correct!

MrMojok
10-16-2007, 12:58 PM
Yeah, as far s the K-14 goes, I think the idea is not to be changing the range constantly, but leave it at one range.

Let's say I want to use 150m convergence. I make an offline mission with icons on, and friendly Bf-109s. I cruise up behind one of them and watch for the range part of the icon display to read .15. When it does, I adjust the gunsight so that the diamonds match that 109's wingspan at 150m, exactly. Remember how big the diamond is compared to the regular gunsight.

now for playing online, when you start up at the spawn point, go ahead and adjust the diamonds to that same point.... the 150m point that you saw offline. Leave it there.

Like Viper said, you kind of adjust on the fly in your head... if he is 3/4 the size of your diamonds, he is furthur away than your 150m convergence... so you just lead a bit more.

The controls you would need mapped to your stick or keyboard are:

Bombsight distance + (increases the sight range of your K14)

Bombsight distance - (decrease k14 sight distance)

Adjust bombsight left
Adjust bombsight right (these two will toggle between the wingspans of fw190/bf109, etc.)

It sounds kind of confusing but it's really not.

TooCooL34
10-16-2007, 01:32 PM
Thank you for the tracks.
I respect pilots who's doing good in P-51.
(My favorite is P-47 which is robust in dive attack compared to P-51.)
I'll watch & analyse them tomorrow night.
..
Umm..actually I had some headache watching your track. Do you use hat switch? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I recommend a TrackIR or something(like FreeTrack, cheaper one).
Your chances of survival & fun factor would be doubled and I'd be happy to watch your track.

M_Gunz
10-16-2007, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
so did I Buzzaw... The planes I have flown in real life have had CSP and then u set a RPM and it stays there... These fighters dont it seems... Dunno if its correct! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oleg has allowed for overspeed in dives, prop hits the coarse stop?

Somehow I doubt that you let things go so far IRL though please say if different!

M_Gunz
10-16-2007, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
ok iwll try the K14. Problem I find with it is that targets very seldom stay at the same distance and for the K14 to be effective ur targets wingtips must be on the circle at all times. As far as I understand that required me to keep changing the size of the gunsight every single second in a dogfight. That would just be too many buttons to take care of added to the trim, prop pitch and power... But will try! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have a high rate of closure then the effective range will be shorter by some percent.

100kph is 28 m/s (27.777... for purists) and figure about 1/3 second for appx 200 meters bullet
travel time gives to shoot at 10 meters longer range -- that is per 100kph of closure and 200m
range you would fire at 210m. How much more delta-V you get in a BnZ?

At longer ranges with high closure the difference can be more like 50m, I've practiced this
with BnZ starting on trigger at 400m so I'd have time to correct and still not ram the target.

No gunsight in the game estimates corrections based on closure, we have no radar sights.

GH_Klingstroem
10-16-2007, 03:39 PM
I have had quite a bit of practice with the k14 gunsight now. I think that the biggest circle for the K14 is the best for me and that seems to correspond to 150 witch is the convergence I have been using for the last 5-6 months.
However the gunsights jumps around a bit too much when u get close to ur target and start correcting when ur target tries to make alot of evasive action. But its nothing I cant get used to with time.
Another thing is to get used to the fact that now when pulling a deflectin shot I should keep the gunsight ON the target and NOT AHEAD of it. I keep catching myself aiming ahead of the target when I should┬┤nt, but again, that takes time getting used to. No doubt the K14 will be effective with time!

One thing that cant be corrected however is the the terrible lack of spread for the 0.50s MG.
If they had just a tad more spread (like the MGs of the hurricane and the spit and p39) the K14 would be a far more effective weapon!
But thats another story.
Back in the days when the p51 first came out apperently it had too much of a shotgun effect so people complained and Oleg was persuaded to reduced the spread to what we have now, which doesnt suit nor the K14 gunsight, nor the average pilot. Point convergence (as it is called ) was made for ace pilots that were far above average at aiming and not for us average marksmen...

M_Gunz
10-16-2007, 06:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
Back in the days when the p51 first came out apperently it had too much of a shotgun effect </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

About 20m wide scatter at 150m range and told to shoot specific parts of the target, not just
spray the whole thing. Same test gives about 8 mils scatter instead of 30, arcade=1 and shoot
a smokestack from parked on the ground.

Same people later finally were able to show that 151/20 ammo between gunpods and internal guns
was mixed and that finally got fixed when the true problem was identified. We owe a lot to
Gibbage and Tiger Talon and a few others on those scores. We owe even more to Oleg.

MrMojok
10-16-2007, 08:36 PM
Kling-

I mainly use the regular sight as in the P-51 you shouldn't spend a lot of time chasing people in turns.

But sometimes, the gyro sight comes in handy for "special occasions". I finally learned to just ignore it for most normal shots.

M_Gunz
10-16-2007, 08:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">However the gunsights jumps around a bit too much when u get close to ur target and start correcting when ur target tries to make alot of evasive action. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try using Filter on your pitch axis (elevator) stick settings. Yes, you will have to be
slower on the stick to avoid overcontrol but it's well worth it.

MrMojok
10-16-2007, 09:11 PM
The K14 sight won't do you a lot of good in that situation, in my opinion. Like you said earlier, it does need about a second to stabilize after hard manuevering. In these cases my target is probably manuevering too hard for me to waste time and energy on lining up a shot with the K14.

So if I can take a shot with the regular sight I will, but more than likely I will just put the nose down and extend. Am I making sense here?

GH_Klingstroem
10-16-2007, 11:49 PM
Im with both of you here! As can be seen on the tracks I dont spend much time turning at all. A quick pass, short burst, and then extend UPWARDS! But sometimes u end up low and slow with a 190, which is ok if noone else is around and u have burnt some fuel so u are ok to turnfight!

M_Gunz I didnt fly the p51 back in those days, so I cant say what it was like... I too dont want a shotgun effect that u described there above, but I dont think the very narrow spread we have now is correct either.. There must be something in between. Maybe in BOB we can have personal convergence settings...

U have real numbers to how much spread was usually used back in the days?? Would be interesting so see and compare to what we have! I fell that we have ALOT less than 20m spread at 150m here! I feel its closer to 1m at 150 as it is now!

Black44
10-16-2007, 11:59 PM
Hey! Klingstroem just wanted to say WOOO !!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif luv your tracks nice flying.

Something I noticed is that you seem to fly smoothly no sharp jerking of the stick,even some of those Fw190 u were tailing they didn't do any snap jerking evading manoveurs they were keeping the speed up.
Reminds me of those real life guncams.

I played WC sometimes, get more deaths than kills http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif pretty much cannon fodder!! ...gonna watch those track again and try the P51

MrMojok
10-17-2007, 12:10 AM
I'm interested in your stick settings, Kling. What are you using?

M_Gunz
10-17-2007, 01:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
Im with both of you here! As can be seen on the tracks I dont spend much time turning at all. A quick pass, short burst, and then extend UPWARDS! But sometimes u end up low and slow with a 190, which is ok if noone else is around and u have burnt some fuel so u are ok to turnfight!

M_Gunz I didnt fly the p51 back in those days, so I cant say what it was like... I too dont want a shotgun effect that u described there above, but I dont think the very narrow spread we have now is correct either.. There must be something in between. Maybe in BOB we can have personal convergence settings...

U have real numbers to how much spread was usually used back in the days?? Would be interesting so see and compare to what we have! I fell that we have ALOT less than 20m spread at 150m here! I feel its closer to 1m at 150 as it is now! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You PM Gibbage and I'm sure he will tell you but it won't matter since it won't be changing!

You want some spread then shoot a bit beyond or inside converge! The spread will be across
only but you will get a spread and note that converge is also where the shots cross your
sighting line so the rise or fall will apply also, you dig?

Since I like to shoot at slower moving targets I am always starting at longer range and still
on the trigger 1-2 seconds later and inside converge but then I set for 250m or more so the
spread angle is not so wide as closer in.

Needless to say, I am happier with nose guns or at least wing cannon!

mirage_94
10-17-2007, 05:28 AM
Thanks for the tracks! It got me to trying reduced prop pitch (70%) on QMB. I liked it and I wondered if it helps with tighter turning due to grabbing more air or is it just my imagination.

Lixma
10-17-2007, 06:11 AM
P-51 is yummy........ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

GH_Klingstroem
10-17-2007, 08:08 AM
MrMojok This is my stick setting. I use alot of filtering and start at pretty low numbers since the p51 is very sensitive I want to be able to make very small stick movements. Works for me and my Microsoft force feedback stick.

[rts_joystick]
X=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Y=0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81 100 0
Z=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
RZ=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
FF=1
U=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
V=0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 0
1X=0 0 3 9 16 25 34 46 59 75 100 40
1Y=3 0 1 3 6 12 21 35 51 67 81 60
1RZ=12 0 1 2 3 9 16 28 41 70 100 80
1U=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0
1V=0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 0


When u reduce the prop pitch it will sound like ur engine is ideling but thats just the poor sound engine of the game. Its not representative for the the power output!!

M_Gunz try the spitfire and use the MGs only! Thats the type of convergence I would like for the p51! Its not shotgun nor is it too tight! Its just perfect. As a matter of fact, I can score ALOT more hits with the 4 MGs of a spitfire than I can with the 6 0.50s of the P51. But the hitting power is alot harder for the .50s.
Why was this Mg convergence changed only for US planes and not british?? I see ur point about shooting out of convergence to get more spread but as u said it will only give horisontal spread not vertical.. But as u said it wont change any way...

Oh, and thx for the nice comments about my tracks guys! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

buzzsaw1939
10-17-2007, 10:50 AM
I only have one thing bad to say about your tracks Kling!... I need more than one gig of ram in my system. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

GH_Klingstroem
10-17-2007, 11:43 AM
hmmm why is that Buzzaw??

buzzsaw1939
10-17-2007, 02:27 PM
it seems that when I'm done with your track, it seems to take forever to get back to desktop to reboot, I assume thats because I'm out of ram? not sure though!

DustyBarrels77
10-17-2007, 06:14 PM
GH_Klingstroem i agree with you, but for me its 100 times more difficult then say flying the 109 190s ki84 p38 macchiis george zeke spit russian planes.

Ives gotten kills in the cr42 vs i153s which feels like a similiar situation. Its all about the one second burst kill, ripping off wings or simply exploding a enemy into nothing with a 1-2 sec burst. Thats what really bothers me with this game on both sides axis and allied and worries me for SOW. is the neg g cutout and 8 .303s vs 2 20s x27.92s the way it is here is ridiculously funny. Like the mk1 vs emils 900+ hits vs in the emil with no snapped cables engine damaged and pilot slightly wounded vs a 1 tap shot to dewing a hurri or explode it to nothing. Same goes for the human he111s ive seen many he111 and ju88s fights online 3 bombers vs 6 or more hurri mk1s and all the hurris get tk'd or run out of ammo with no kills. The fms are descent like the emil vs hurri field mod or 2c is a very close match up little overly close and emil should hold a better advantage in my opinion but very equal on both sides which makes it fun for flying all sides.

fm of the 51 is fine when flying higher just bnz, although i dont agree with the ease of its wings sheering off or its highspeed manueverability i think all ac are extremely overdone in that catagory in my opinion.

The fm of the mkIII is a ufo tho but its 4 .50s are laughable even with under 190 convergence which to me seems most effective in a short very close distance burst. Rarely see clipped cables firing against german ac being on the recieving end of .50s and always seem to survive a good 3-5 passes when in german. Sure theres heavy damage but so simple to just get a stick yank return shot on a bnzer thats all it takes to explode them. The p38 use to be like that now it takes a 2 sec burst to kill instead of 1-2 hits having its booms break off.

I dunno to me any armament shouldnt matter after a 1-3 sec burst of any ammo type almost the plane should be disabled and out of commission. The stories of 160 hits on a il2 for example is bs just flak debris holes etc counted on both sides although there was many that did survive alot of hits by luck, same goes for the p47 theres occasions of the p47 taking a direct 88mm hit to the engine knocking out cyclinders and making it many miles back to base, but these are 1 in a million cases. in the pto even the ki43s had victories over the p47 which is considered a very tough aircraft of wwii in a few short bursts and thats only two 7.92s, same for 109 pilots having only mgs left on thier 109s after bomber attack missions being able to get victories in short bursts on 38s 51s 47s on many occasions.

yes it could be proven but dont have the time to put into it just know from reading alot of wwii aviation books on sqaudrons pilots groundcrews etc..

theres really no markmanship in this game just cannon over mg difference and the damage model problems since day 1 of the game.

scaredycat1
10-17-2007, 09:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
As somew people here would know, I fly the p51 online and I do very well in it...
I have two tracks to download for people to watch how to use it in il2.

Both sorties are from Warclouds western front on hyperlobby online and both of them are around 7-8 kills each.

If anyone is interested the tracks can be found under our newly made squad site
http://50calibersixguns.com/Downloads.html

Oh and btw, we need more pilots... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks for posting this! D/led both your clips.
Damn , no wonder i always get smoked in a 51!
Nice flying! and thx agin for sharing you techniques!
Il still suck... but at least ill have a clue now!

GH_Klingstroem
10-18-2007, 04:25 AM
Dustybarrels77 Im with you to 100%!
However I am preety sure that for BOB the damage model for every single plane will be alot more accurate so the 8 303s of the spit and hurricane will be able to create alot more damage than they currently are!
Problem is that what this sim and and any sim is lacking is the fear factor. If I get hit constanly in real life i would say

-feck this! I m getting out of here

And I would bail! In the game u can fly till u die and it doesnt really bother u. I did However fly the p51 the other day vs a 190 on a private dogfight server just the two us. I fired at him at a distance and couldnt see any debri falling off or any flashes but he told me that I hit several time and that he lost his gunsight. So it does make more damage than u might think. A tad more spread for the US planes 0.50s tho would be welcome to make it easier for the average pilot to score hits...