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View Full Version : A plee for modified models: P-38F and Ki-43-II



A.K.Davis
11-16-2004, 01:57 PM
These modifications of in-game models would do wonders to round-out the plane set, and give us an appropiate P-38 for the maps we have.

P-38F-15-LO with maneuver flaps would be best choice.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The first P-38Fs to reach Australia during 1942 were assigned to the 39th Fighter Squadron of the 35th Fighter Group. This unit traded in its Bell Airacobras for the Lightnings at Amberley in Queensland before returning to combat operations at Port Moresby in Papua, New Guinea. Its first success took place on December 27, 1942 when its pilots claimed eleven kills for the loss of only one P-38F. Two of these kills were claimed by Richard I. Bong, who was to go on to claim a total of 40 kills, all of them while flying the Lightning.

The limited number of Lightnings available during late 1942 and early 1943 had to be used to make up attrition in the 39th Fighter Squadron and to equip only a single squadron in each of the 8th and 49th Fighter Groups of the Fifth Air Force in New Guinea, and of the 18th and 347th Fighter Groups of the Thirteenth Air Force on Guadalcanal.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And a Ki-43-IIb or Ki-43-II-KAI would give us reflector sights, bombs and drop tanks.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>In pursuit of better performance, five Ki-43-I airframes were modified in February of 1942 to be powered by the 1150-hp Type 1 engine (which was the Nakajima Ha-115, a development of the earlier Ha-25). This engine had a two-speed supercharger and drove a three-bladed constant-speed metal propeller. The supercharger air intake was moved from underneath the cowling to its upper lip, with the carburetor intake remaining underneath the cowling. The wingspan was decreased by two feet and the wing area by 6.46 square feet to improve speed at low and medium altitudes. The windshield and cockpit canopy were raised slightly and a new reflector gunsight was fitted. The wing attachment points were strengthened to carry 551-pound bombs. In response to complaints from the field that the Hayabusa was too vulnerable to superficial combat damage, some rudimentary armor protection was provided for the pilot and self-sealing tanks were installed in the wings.
The improved Hayabusa model entered production as the Army Type 1 Fighter Model 2A (Ki-43-IIa). As the Model 2A entered production, the earlier Model 1 was progressively phased out, until the 716th and last Model 1 left the line in February 1943.

The carburetor air intake was deepened early in the production life of the Ki-43-IIa. The major production version of the Hayabusa was the Ki-43-IIb, which differed from the IIa only in minor equipment changes. The oil cooler, which had been mounted in a ring inside the cowling ahead of the engine and around the propeller shaft, was replaced by a honeycomb unit mounted inside a still deeper carburetor intake. Late production IIbs had their underwing bomb attachment points moved outboard of the main undercarriage legs to prevent bombs from hitting the propeller during dive bombing attacks at steep angles. Later production IIb aircraft had the oil cooler moved backward from the carburetor air intake and relocated underneath the central fuselage.

The modifications progressively introduced during the Ki-43-IIb production run were standardized on the Ki-43-KAI. This aircraft was also fitted with individual exhaust stacks that replaced the exhaust collector ring of earlier versions, and provided some amount of residual thrust augmentation. This variant also saw the underwing attachment points moved outboard of the landing gear. Three prototypes were built between June and August of 1942, and the Ki-43-KAI entered service in the summer of 1943. Some sources refer to this variant as the Ki-43-IIc, although this may be a "retrospective" designation introduced after the fact by Western sources for clarity.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously, Gibbage would be in the best position to create these modifications, but we know he is very busy. Perhaps under his tutelage someone else could give us these important aircraft.

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/

9th_Spitin
11-16-2004, 02:30 PM
Yes please more P-38 variations.

Performance specs for P-38F
P-38F-15-LO: 347 mph at 5,000 ft.
P-38F-15-LO: 351 mph at 10,000 ft.
P-38F-15-LO: 395 mph at 25,000 ft.


P-38F-15-LO: 4 minutes to 10,000 ft.
P-38F-15-LO: 8.8 minutes to 20,000 ft.


P-38F: 1,225hp V-1710

Or how about a P-38J-25-LO that was used later in the pacific.


P-38J-25-LO: 360 mph at 5,000 ft.
P-38J-25-LO: 390 mph at 15,000 ft.
P-38J-25-LO: 414 mph at 25,000 ft.



P-38J-25-LO: 2 minutes to 5,000 ft.
P-38J-25-LO: 5 minutes to 15,000 ft.
P-38J-25-LO: 7 minutes to 20,000 ft.


P-38H to P-38J: 1,425hp V-1710


I would love to see the J-25-LO be in the game to give the ki-84 a run for its money.

VW-IceFire
11-16-2004, 03:01 PM
I'd love to see a P-38F. I've sort of asked about it before but not in so many words. Its an earlier varient and it balances the Japanese VS USAAF balance in that mid-war period.

I don't know as much about the J-25-LO...it sounds like a P-38L which we already have. Please enlighten http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

9th_Spitin
11-16-2004, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I don't know as much about the J-25-LO...it sounds like a P-38L which we already have. Please enlighten http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it is the P-38J-25-LO that we have, why won't it do 390 mph @ 15k ft? Very undermodeled?

Korolov
11-16-2004, 05:00 PM
As much as I'd like a P-38F/G/H, I don't think we'll be getting one. External modifications are otherwise minimal, but include a rounded windshield, narrower radiators and the most prominent of all, chinless nacelles.

The biggest element of all, however: the cockpit.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p38cp-1.jpg

EDIT: I do think there is a probability of seeing a Ki-43-II though.

JG53Frankyboy
11-16-2004, 05:20 PM
count me in for an early P-38 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
but as said above, the cockpit would need a lot of tweaks !

but, actually there is no real area were P-38 , early ore late, can fight. the given NewGuinea Map is over at January 43 , than the whole area is in allied hands http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Guadlacanal, well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


a Ki-43-II would be very welcome as THE IJAAF fighter from 1943 on !
but the cockpit looks also very different to the 43-I . hopefully the have enough sources http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and another variant:
a HurricaneMkIIb as it fought over Singapoore. with dustfilter and the outer MGs removed because of their weight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
11-16-2004, 06:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
As much as I'd like a P-38F/G/H, I don't think we'll be getting one. External modifications are otherwise minimal, but include a rounded windshield, narrower radiators and the most prominent of all, chinless nacelles.

The biggest element of all, however: the cockpit.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/p38cp-1.jpg

EDIT: I do think there is a probability of seeing a Ki-43-II though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ahh interesting...yes there are some changes...I have no experience with cockpit creation and I know alot of labor goes into them so I have no idea if this would be a huge job or what.

Spitin: I have no idea...I haven't tested the numbers myself. Just that we already have a P-38J and a P-38L which I'm told is like having an earlier J and the L is similar to the late J with a few changes. I have to say the L is pretty sweet in my opinion...although I use it more as a fighter bomber...its still a handy plane to have. In a co-op I and one trusty wingman (human piloted) took on 4 human piloted A6M3's and won handily. They couldn't touch us...there was one opportunity in the first minute of the fight for one to hit me. He never got a second chance.

A.K.Davis
11-16-2004, 06:29 PM
The P-38J we have in game right now was the fastest of the breed. No need for an intermediary between the J and L. The early P-38 is the big gap (but the most work).

Another great modification of an existing model would be a P-40N.

Korolov
11-16-2004, 06:32 PM
For one, engine guages are over on the left side of the cockpit and each engine has it's own RPM and manifold pressure indicator. I think the large lever on the left side of the cockpit is part of the gun charger mechanism, but I'm not sure of that.

There's also a slab of armored glass at the top of the windshield and a earlier type (N-3? N-9?) gunsight.

Regarding the differences between the J and L we have, I believe the J is a J-10, which was considerably lighter than the later J-25 and L-5. The J-25 was almost identicle to the L, but had slightly less HP in the engines and was somewhat lighter.

Gibbage1
11-16-2004, 06:48 PM
Well I asked Ilya if he wanted me to do a P-38F for PF and he said no. He asked me to model the Ki-43 instead. The external would not be a big problem. Canopy frame, front landing gear, radiator's on the booms and a few small details. The cockpit on the other hand would be a lot more work.

I "THINK" there is a Ki-43II cockpit in the works. I am not 100% sure, but I think only the canopy frame is changed. Im not sure. Referances on that is very limited. It would be nice to get a reflector and a better canopy on that bird.

So thats the situation as far as I know. Im "out of the loop" when it comes to PF and I get my news just like you guys. Who knows! Oleg and Ilya do. I would LOVE to see a P-38 in 1942 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I think it would be the fastest aircraft in the era. Not a good B&Z because of compressability, and a dog to manuver, but nothing would catch it.

Also a P-38 D with a 37MM would be fun. =) Quite a few P-38 D's with the big gun was made. More then some big gun Yak's! I think the first Allied kill was a P-38D vs a FW-200. Im not sure if it had the 37MM or not. Only a few D's had it.

Jambock__01
11-16-2004, 06:50 PM
P-38F and P-40N are absolutly necessary, as the Ki-43 II.

Others modifications i would like to see are Sea Hurricane and Sea Gladiator http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VF-29_Sandman
11-16-2004, 07:32 PM
it wouldnt be the pacific without having the early 38's. they have tons of nip fighters already out, and to leave out the early forktails would be sacrilige in historical context

p1ngu666
11-16-2004, 07:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF-29_Sandman:
it wouldnt be the pacific without having the early 38's. they have tons of nip fighters already out, and to leave out the early forktails would be sacrilige in historical context <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

or 4 flyables, that are very similer to each other http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
america got, p39s,p40s,p38s,p51,p47. navy got f4f,f6f,corsair

LEXX_Luthor
11-16-2004, 08:43 PM
*bump* for Ki~43II

...and Flyable Ki~27 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

A.K.Davis
11-16-2004, 08:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Well I asked Ilya if he wanted me to do a P-38F for PF and he said no. He asked me to model the Ki-43 instead. The external would not be a big problem. Canopy frame, front landing gear, radiator's on the booms and a few small details. The cockpit on the other hand would be a lot more work.

I "THINK" there is a Ki-43II cockpit in the works. I am not 100% sure, but I think only the canopy frame is changed. Im not sure. Referances on that is very limited. It would be nice to get a reflector and a better canopy on that bird.

So thats the situation as far as I know. Im "out of the loop" when it comes to PF and I get my news just like you guys. Who knows! Oleg and Ilya do. I would LOVE to see a P-38 in 1942 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I think it would be the fastest aircraft in the era. Not a good B&Z because of compressability, and a dog to manuver, but nothing would catch it.

Also a P-38 D with a 37MM would be fun. =) Quite a few P-38 D's with the big gun was made. More then some big gun Yak's! I think the first Allied kill was a P-38D vs a FW-200. Im not sure if it had the 37MM or not. Only a few D's had it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

well, I think we've all figured out Luthier has a bit of a carrier fixation. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm 100% certain the community would truly rally behind anyone willing to put the P-38F into the game. Just not the Pacific without it.

Gibbage, maybe if you made the external changes and got it in as AI, it would spur Luthier, et al to change their mind.

JG53Frankyboy
11-17-2004, 06:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Well I asked Ilya if he wanted me to do a P-38F for PF and he said no. He asked me to model the Ki-43 instead. The external would not be a big problem. Canopy frame, front landing gear, radiator's on the booms and a few small details. The cockpit on the other hand would be a lot more work.

I "THINK" there is a Ki-43II cockpit in the works. I am not 100% sure, but I think only the canopy frame is changed. Im not sure. Referances on that is very limited. It would be nice to get a reflector and a better canopy on that bird.

So thats the situation as far as I know. Im "out of the loop" when it comes to PF and I get my news just like you guys. Who knows! Oleg and Ilya do. I would LOVE to see a P-38 in 1942 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I think it would be the fastest aircraft in the era. Not a good B&Z because of compressability, and a dog to manuver, but nothing would catch it.

Also a P-38 D with a 37MM would be fun. =) Quite a few P-38 D's with the big gun was made. More then some big gun Yak's! I think the first Allied kill was a P-38D vs a FW-200. Im not sure if it had the 37MM or not. Only a few D's had it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the Ki-43-II has a totaly different instriment panel - unfortunatly.
but as you said, hopefully "they" have enough sources that maddox is saying ok http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i love flying the P38 now in the PF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif , it has found its real home now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


heck, sure i forgott to mention the P-40N - also a very good choice

A.K.Davis
11-17-2004, 08:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
i love flying the P38 now in the PF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif , it has found its real home now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But sadly the P-38J and L have no real home in PF, at least from a map and campaign standpoint. They need late-war Papua New Guinea, Phillipines, Formosa, etc.

We can perhaps squeeze a few historical missions for the P-38L using air starts over Iwo Jima. I does not belong in the Kyushu air start campaign. Starshoy added that because of community demand that had no basis in history.

JG53Frankyboy
11-17-2004, 08:19 AM
yes, i know, we have lot of planes in PF for which there is no historical correct map included - actually no maps where these planes can start/land AND fight.

like the P-38J/L , P-47D , P-51D , Spitifre MkVIII , P-63 , AVG Hawk-81 , BeaufighterMk21

the "map-gap" is already often discussed (thats no offence against you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) - and hopefully in the future some interesting maps will be included - espacially for USAAF operations - USN operations are laredy covered a lot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

geetarman
11-17-2004, 09:44 AM
I too would love an early P-38. I appreciate Gibbage still maintaining his interest to do it!!!

If Oleg is reading - Please let Gibbage work his magic and get us an early 38!

Daiichidoku
11-17-2004, 12:55 PM
If it will be as dissapointing as the 38s we have now in FB/PF, Id rather not see another example of a GREAT fighter mangled and hobbled...funny how every other twin in FB flys nice, and very stabilly...not perfect, of course, given the torque limitations of the FB engine...but much better than the 38....I wont even get into the turn abilities of the 38, wether IRL or our virtual version

The Ki43 II would be nice....Oscar is truly a fun plane to fly....and will be more so when the corsair is hopefully fixed, and brought to a level that is a lil more true to life

But it is the Ki43 III that I would really like to see...loaded with 2 x 20mm cannon....WOW! thats dangerous!

Gibbage1
11-17-2004, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geetarman:
I too would love an early P-38. I appreciate Gibbage still maintaining his interest to do it!!!

If Oleg is reading - Please let Gibbage work his magic and get us an early 38! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please dont get me wrong. I once wanted to do it for PF. But if its going to be done now, it wont be by my hands. I am extreamly busy now a days with many projects, and I still must compleate the PBY Catalina. I simply cant do it. I am MORE then willing to help any modeler who does wish to do the conversion. I have the external model, cockpit and all the referances.

Nimits
11-17-2004, 05:10 PM
Well, heres a bump hoping we get all of the essential US planes: P-38F, P-40N, TBD-1, TBF-1, TBM-3, SB2C.

JG53Frankyboy
11-17-2004, 06:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nimits:
Well, heres a bump hoping we get all of the essential US planes: P-38F, P-40N, TBD-1, TBF-1, TBM-3, SB2C. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

than let me ad some "essential" japanese planes, because this game has two sides :
flyable K-43-II , N1K1-J , J2M3 , B5N2 , D4Y2 , B6N2

as AI Ki-21

and some essantial other nations:
Dutch Hawk75
British Buffalo MkI

sometimes i realy wish i could hanlde 3DsMAX http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

JG53Frankyboy
11-17-2004, 07:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
If it will be as dissapointing as the 38s we have now in FB/PF, Id rather not see another example of a GREAT fighter mangled and hobbled...funny how every other twin in FB flys nice, and very stabilly...not perfect, of course, given the torque limitations of the FB engine...but much better than the 38....I wont even get into the turn abilities of the 38, wether IRL or our virtual version

The Ki43 II would be nice....Oscar is truly a fun plane to fly....and will be more so when the corsair is hopefully fixed, and brought to a level that is a lil more true to life

But it is the Ki43 III that I would really like to see...loaded with 2 x 20mm cannon....WOW! thats dangerous! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

so far i remember the only oscars ever armed with 20mm Ho-5 Canons were the 2 prototypes of the Ki-43-IIIOtsu , beside other changes.

the Ki-43-IIIKo had still 2x Ho-103