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SManZ
07-10-2008, 08:01 PM
I've been searching for a story about an act of chivalry on Google for quite some time with no luck. I read it once and wanted to find it again. Maybe someone here can help.

It is a story about an allied (I think American) pilot that got involved in a dogfight with 3 or 4 German fighters. I think they were Me-109s. I don't remember if the allied pilot was caught alone or not. After an intense fight, he manages to shoot down at least one of them before being hit and bailing out. When his chute opens, he sees the flight of Luftwaffe fighters turn back towards him. He thinks that they will shoot him down, but instead each pilot in the group salutes him as they fly by.

What I'm really looking for is the pencil illustration that went with the story. It was of the Luftwaffe pilot saluting from his aircraft at the allied pilot in the chute.

I know the story is vague and its a long shot, but I figured I'd give it a try. All I seem to come up with in my search is the story about Franz Stigler (Luftwaffe) sparing a heavily damaged B-17 and escorting it to safety. An incredible story in itself, but not the one I'm looking for :-\

SManZ
07-10-2008, 08:01 PM
I've been searching for a story about an act of chivalry on Google for quite some time with no luck. I read it once and wanted to find it again. Maybe someone here can help.

It is a story about an allied (I think American) pilot that got involved in a dogfight with 3 or 4 German fighters. I think they were Me-109s. I don't remember if the allied pilot was caught alone or not. After an intense fight, he manages to shoot down at least one of them before being hit and bailing out. When his chute opens, he sees the flight of Luftwaffe fighters turn back towards him. He thinks that they will shoot him down, but instead each pilot in the group salutes him as they fly by.

What I'm really looking for is the pencil illustration that went with the story. It was of the Luftwaffe pilot saluting from his aircraft at the allied pilot in the chute.

I know the story is vague and its a long shot, but I figured I'd give it a try. All I seem to come up with in my search is the story about Franz Stigler (Luftwaffe) sparing a heavily damaged B-17 and escorting it to safety. An incredible story in itself, but not the one I'm looking for :-\

CUJO_1970
07-10-2008, 08:17 PM
The original story is from Donald Cadwell's excellent book "JG/26 Top Guns of the Luftwaffe"

The German pilots I believe were from II Gruppe JG26 in FW190s. From memory, I believe the American pilot's name was Seelos, and I seem to recall he was actually a bomber pilot.

The German pilot(s) tipped their wings and saluted him as they flew by his parachute.

waffen-79
07-11-2008, 09:26 AM
awesome, just awesome

BSS_Goat
07-11-2008, 11:02 AM
pfffftttt.... German revionist BS....be sure.

They were shooting him the bird and trying to swat him with their wings.

Tab_Flettner
07-11-2008, 11:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">pfffftttt.... German revionist BS </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice. This too I guess, huh?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=105373

BSS_Goat
07-11-2008, 12:32 PM
don't you have some Tabs to Fletten?

Sarcasm my friend, sarcasm.

Bo_Nidle
07-11-2008, 01:25 PM
This incident occurred on the 11 September 1944 and involved Carlos "Tote" Talbott a pilot with the 397thFs 368thFg 9thAF flying P-47's. He engaged a force of about 40 109's single handedly and succeeded in shooting down two. The ensuing confusion allowed his squadron to egress the target area successfully. He was eventually overwhelmed by four 109's and shot down but bailed out successfully, as he did so the four 109's returned as he drifted down, they circled him and saluted him before flying away.

Check out the 368thFg website www.368thFighterGroup.com (http://www.368thFighterGroup.com) and the book "Second to none" by Dr Tim Grace.

I also did this screenshot for Gen Talbott last year:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/Thebestdefence9.jpg

CUJO_1970
07-11-2008, 07:17 PM
The seperate account I was thinking of was indeed recounted in Caldwell's JG26 Book.

The pilot was Robert Seelos, his B-17 shot down by Addi Glunz of II/JG26.

B - 17 # 41 - 24465 " Montana Power "
Pilot - Lt. Robert Seelos
3 KIA 7 POW
MACR # 15533



http://forum.armyairforces.com/forceddownload.aspx?file=0%3b130593

KG66_Gog
07-12-2008, 12:21 AM
I would'nt be so quick to espouse the deeds of Franz Stigler. He was a gross over claimer, busted by the Luftwaffe for making false claims and even caught in the act doing it by pilots from his own squadron.

His merciful act with the B-17 is equally as dubious as his conduct record.

Schwarz.13
07-12-2008, 12:42 PM
Here's one quoted from Luftwaffe Fighter Aces by Mike Spick:

"Once - I think it was 31 August 1940 - I was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover. I was back over the Channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way. I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way back to England and then waved goodbye. A few weeks later the same thing happened to me." - <span class="ev_code_yellow">Erich Rudorffer</span>

...and another chivalrous Experte, <span class="ev_code_yellow">Georg-Peter Eder </span>(also Mike Spick):

Although his overall tally of 78 victories places him low (equal 155th) on the overall list of Experten, Eder had one of the most amazing records of the whole war. Shot down seventeen times, he was wounded, often severely, on twelve different occasions. His score might have been far higher if he had not on many occasions declined to finish off a damaged adversary. While this smacks of propaganda, it has since been confirmed from Allied sources. His aircraft became known as 'Lucky 13' to those whom, their aircraft badly damaged, he allowed to escape. For this he was probably the most deserving of all the Experten who survived the war.

I love chivalry - almost as much as a certain old, mentally-ill gentleman from La Mancha http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

thefruitbat
07-12-2008, 01:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Schwarz.13:
Here's one quoted from Luftwaffe Fighter Aces by Mike Spick:

"Once - I think it was 31 August 1940 - I was in a fight with four Hurricanes over Dover. I was back over the Channel when I saw another Hurricane coming from Calais, trailing white smoke, obviously in a bad way. I flew up alongside him and escorted him all the way back to England and then waved goodbye. A few weeks later the same thing happened to me." - <span class="ev_code_yellow">Erich Rudorffer</span>

...and another chivalrous Experte, <span class="ev_code_yellow">Georg-Peter Eder </span>(also Mike Spick):

Although his overall tally of 78 victories places him low (equal 155th) on the overall list of Experten, Eder had one of the most amazing records of the whole war. Shot down seventeen times, he was wounded, often severely, on twelve different occasions. His score might have been far higher if he had not on many occasions declined to finish off a damaged adversary. While this smacks of propaganda, it has since been confirmed from Allied sources. His aircraft became known as 'Lucky 13' to those whom, their aircraft badly damaged, he allowed to escape. For this he was probably the most deserving of all the Experten who survived the war.

I love chivalry - almost as much as a certain old, mentally-ill gentleman from La Mancha http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love that first quote, someone here has got it as there sig text.

I always find it amazing where i read about acts of chivalry in WW1 and WW2, from all sides. For what ever reason these people did these things, we'll never know, but in all that hate, they showed compassion and respect. Men amongst men.

fruitbat

Schwarz.13
07-12-2008, 06:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
I love that first quote, someone here has got it as there sig text.

I always find it amazing where i read about acts of chivalry in WW1 and WW2, from all sides. For what ever reason these people did these things, we'll never know, but in all that hate, they showed compassion and respect. Men amongst men. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Amen to that Fruitbat!

It is true what they say - war brings out the worst in some people, but fortunately the best in others...

S!

SeaFireLIV
07-12-2008, 07:36 PM
Amazing stuff.

It can`t be compared to IL2 really, but it`s acts like this that I choose to emulate in flight sims. While some are happy to shoot pilots in their chutes with reasons of `one less enemy of the war`, an attitude many real pilots did have, I chose to have the attitude of other pilots who DID`NT shoot people down once they were out of the fight.

Tab_Flettner
07-12-2008, 10:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would'nt be so quick to espouse the deeds of Franz Stigler. He was a gross over claimer, busted by the Luftwaffe for making false claims and even caught in the act doing it by pilots from his own squadron.

His merciful act with the B-17 is equally as dubious as his conduct record. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats actually really interesting. He just passed away locally here, and CTV did a big piece on his career. Have you got some sources for your comments?

SManZ
07-12-2008, 10:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
This incident occurred on the 11 September 1944 and involved Carlos "Tote" Talbott a pilot with the 397thFs 368thFg 9thAF flying P-47's. He engaged a force of about 40 109's single handedly and succeeded in shooting down two. The ensuing confusion allowed his squadron to egress the target area successfully. He was eventually overwhelmed by four 109's and shot down but bailed out successfully, as he did so the four 109's returned as he drifted down, they circled him and saluted him before flying away.

Check out the 368thFg website www.368thFighterGroup.com (http://www.368thFighterGroup.com) and the book "Second to none" by Dr Tim Grace.

I also did this screenshot for Gen Talbott last year:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/Thebestdefence9.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This story is the one! Thank you! Now I just need to find that site with the drawing...

Uufflakke
07-13-2008, 05:21 AM
Not exactly what you are looking for but at least interesting I think...

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Uufflakke/397-flightjournal-1-290x187.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Uufflakke/w-397-plate-talbott-rb-551x190.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Uufflakke/w-397-talbott-tote.jpg

<span class="ev_code_RED">And read what the instructor says about his gunnery skills.</span> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Uufflakke/post-535-1206883665.jpg

Kongo Otto
08-08-2008, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tab_Flettner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would'nt be so quick to espouse the deeds of Franz Stigler. He was a gross over claimer, busted by the Luftwaffe for making false claims and even caught in the act doing it by pilots from his own squadron.

His merciful act with the B-17 is equally as dubious as his conduct record. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats actually really interesting. He just passed away locally here, and CTV did a big piece on his career. Have you got some sources for your comments? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As he didnt showed a source for his post until today,
i call his post a lie.
And it wasnt Stigler who brought the story into daylight, it was Charles Brown.

by the way here is a picture from Charles Brown
Pilot of B-17F 42-3167 "Ye old Pub" of 379th BG stationed at Kimbolton/UK.
http://www.military.com/pics/dday_Brown.jpg
And here is a Picture from Franz Stigler (sitting left) and Charles Brown (siting right).
http://www.stormbirdsannex.com/images/prints/stigler-brown.jpg

DrHerb
08-08-2008, 02:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Amazing stuff.

It can`t be compared to IL2 really, but it`s acts like this that I choose to emulate in flight sims. While some are happy to shoot pilots in their chutes with reasons of `one less enemy of the war`, an attitude many real pilots did have, I chose to have the attitude of other pilots who DID`NT shoot people down once they were out of the fight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The unfortunate thing is back in WW2 there was no such thing as "respawn" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Buzzsaw-
08-08-2008, 03:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KG66_Gog:
I would'nt be so quick to espouse the deeds of Franz Stigler. He was a gross over claimer, busted by the Luftwaffe for making false claims and even caught in the act doing it by pilots from his own squadron.

His merciful act with the B-17 is equally as dubious as his conduct record. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I met Franz, and he was far from being a liar. Your facts are completely wrong.

And since Charles Brown, the B-17 pilot he spared actually met Franz after the war, and confirmed EVERY SINGLE detail of his story, the suggestion that his account is bogus is complete nonsense.

And your claim he was 'busted' is also nonsense. If that were the case, why was he promoted to Gruppe Kommandeur and also selected to fly Me-262's, something which was reserved for those who had the highest level of skill.

MB_Avro_UK
08-08-2008, 05:06 PM
Interesting thread http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bob Doe was a 19 year old Spitfire ace in the Battle of Britain.

He damaged a 109 over the English Channel and as he closed for the kill he realised that the 109 was in trouble.

He flew alongside and allowed the pilot to make a successful landing in the sea near France.

The 109 pilot was rescued and became a high scoring ace during the rest of the war.

Bob Doe said that he could not bring himself to kill a pilot who was out of combat and trying to survive.

Logically, Bob Doe should have destroyed the 109 and pilot and therefore saved many allied aircrew lives.

The wife of the 109 pilot wrote to Bob Doe after the war and thanked him for saving her husband's life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Doe

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.