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jameson2010
07-09-2010, 07:04 PM
Does anyone know if describing yourself in Quick Mission Buider as average or ace makes any difference in the mission?

jameson2010
07-09-2010, 07:04 PM
Does anyone know if describing yourself in Quick Mission Buider as average or ace makes any difference in the mission?

AndyJWest
07-09-2010, 07:12 PM
I think it alters the skill of your AI gunners, so if you have them, it may help to change to ace. Most of the time mine seem to shoot anywhere but at the target...

jameson2010
07-10-2010, 05:20 PM
Thanks for response AJ. Gunners hadn't I admit crossed my mind, but worth knowing. Still wondering what effect it has flying a fighter in a dogfight particularly against say 4 aces. I was thinking that for the player whatever was selected would be ignored by the game and you'd just be the player as it were, but now I'm wondering if the game won't permit you to fly as well if you fly as rookie.
Anyone noticed anything odd, or is it just me?

gizmo60
07-10-2010, 05:41 PM
I had always assumed that was the skill of your wingmen if you have them and doesn't affect the player.

Cheers

megalopsuche
07-10-2010, 08:51 PM
If you engage the autopilot and let ii fly for you, you can see firsthand the difference how the AI skill levels fly.

DKoor
07-11-2010, 01:04 AM
That is of course if you take that player Ai = NPC Ai.
In that case we cannot draw bold parallels.
Some people here suggested that, I however, am in disagreement with that.

I do think that player Ai = NPC Ai therefore I think we may witness it 1st hand.

Rjel
07-11-2010, 01:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
That is of course if you take that player Ai = NPC Ai.
In that case we cannot draw bold parallels.
Some people here suggested that, I however, am in disagreement with that.

I do think that player Ai = NPC Ai therefore I think we may witness it 1st hand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well spoken... I think??? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

jameson2010
07-11-2010, 07:58 AM
Lol! Followed recommendation to try autopilot,and well, er, didn't go to well to put it mildy. But thanks for the suggestion.

Here's the mission:
Bf109G6 1943 (average and default loadout) v 4 x La7 (ace + default), Map is SlovakiaW, Altitude 1000m, Time 12.00, Weather Clear, Clouds 2000m, Diff: none, Pos N, No AA.

Results using autopilot, as rookie, plane stays on heading and climbs, (correct tactic in theory!). Dead inside 30secs. Flying on autopilot, ace setting, dead in less than a minute.

As player I am getting on average 1 kill, 1 damaged, who disappears but I get no kill credit, then I'm either shot down (no ammo) or hit those you can't see me trees, thank you Oleg! Best tactic seems to be get on the deck and stay there and turn fight.

So none the wiser regarding the effect of setting the player's skill level. Like you I make the ASSUMPTION that it has no effect on the player, and only affects the AI's routines. Still don't know though.

DKoor
07-11-2010, 02:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jameson2010:
Lol! Followed recommendation to try autopilot,and well, er, didn't go to well to put it mildy. But thanks for the suggestion.

Here's the mission:
Bf109G6 1943 (average and default loadout) v 4 x La7 (ace + default), Map is SlovakiaW, Altitude 1000m, Time 12.00, Weather Clear, Clouds 2000m, Diff: none, Pos N, No AA.

Results using autopilot, as rookie, plane stays on heading and climbs, (correct tactic in theory!). Dead inside 30secs. Flying on autopilot, ace setting, dead in less than a minute.

As player I am getting on average 1 kill, 1 damaged, who disappears but I get no kill credit, then I'm either shot down (no ammo) or hit those you can't see me trees, thank you Oleg! Best tactic seems to be get on the deck and stay there and turn fight.

So none the wiser regarding the effect of setting the player's skill level. Like you I make the ASSUMPTION that it has no effect on the player, and only affects the AI's routines. Still don't know though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I strongly urge you to take a look at this track;
http://www.esnips.com/doc/c7ee...rBf109G-vs-4xLA7-200 (http://www.esnips.com/doc/c7ee4cad-6a55-4ed0-a835-781ba3681e19/DKoorBf109G-vs-4xLA7-200)

It is track recorded under (Forgotten Battles) Aces Expansion Pack v2.00.

During this period people could extensively use energy advantage versus Ai... our future patches should be somewhere along this road if we are to bring back the good old days. MG151/20 sucked tho, that's why you'll see much Mk108s in use.
Anyhow Ai is ******ed however you take it, so why not make it at least a bit more historical?
Nowadays Ai Hurris can make a good match to 109 in climb battles http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.

But the track is just beautiful to watch http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif , one just have a hard time believeing those are actually LA-7 AI ACES that player fights against.

K_Freddie
07-11-2010, 03:57 PM
Here we go (http://www.vanjast.com/IL2Movies/Some409Tracks.zip)
Some offline(AI) tracks..
WoW - with working rudder pedals
noRudder - using keys for rudders (takes a lot longer - frustration!!) Nice LA5/7 moves but still not good enough.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Jumoschwanz
07-11-2010, 09:28 PM
I tried your mission out on hard setings, 4.09m no mods, but I set the four ace AI opponents as independents not linked to wingmen for more of a challenge, and I also made them 3x20mm. I shot them all down first try.

For even more of a challenge try starting at 5000m altitude where the four independents can do more vertical flying against you.

One really good human opponent is still harder to fly against than four independent AI, food for thought.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqIvrh7tdQY

jameson2010
07-12-2010, 04:26 AM
Thank you for the tracks everyone. Dkoor yours looks interesting but appears to happening very slowly, La7's much faster now and will shoot you down if they are behind you.
Moot point whether AEP 2.0 or the current 4.09 is more historically correct energy wise. Nitpicking (in the nicest possible way) you're flying a g6as with gm50 boost and you can see out the back!
K_Freddie you're in a Fw190, again with good rearward vision, but the ending seems familiar..
Jumo again you're in a fw190 on ytube, but do as I do ie head for the deck. I will try your recommendation to start @ 5k and 4 independent aces, I think I'll have to get a Trackir though! If you have track of 1943 g6 early, the one with the big metal plate behind your head, shooting down 4 La7 aces, I'd love to see it!
I'm sure it's possible to shoot them down I just haven't done it. Expect to see track posted if it happens but don't hold your breath.
Regards

K_Freddie
07-12-2010, 11:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jameson2010:
K_Freddie you're in a Fw190, again with good rearward vision, but the ending seems familiar..
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ja, I set it done on purpose - too lazy to go land it, and wanted to see if my wingman would also 'do the honours'
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DKoor
07-12-2010, 03:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jameson2010:
Thank you for the tracks everyone. Dkoor yours looks interesting but appears to happening very slowly, La7's much faster now and will shoot you down if they are behind you.
Moot point whether AEP 2.0 or the current 4.09 is more historically correct energy wise. Nitpicking (in the nicest possible way) you're flying a g6as with gm50 boost and you can see out the back!
K_Freddie you're in a Fw190, again with good rearward vision, but the ending seems familiar..
Jumo again you're in a fw190 on ytube, but do as I do ie head for the deck. I will try your recommendation to start @ 5k and 4 independent aces, I think I'll have to get a Trackir though! If you have track of 1943 g6 early, the one with the big metal plate behind your head, shooting down 4 La7 aces, I'd love to see it!
I'm sure it's possible to shoot them down I just haven't done it. Expect to see track posted if it happens but don't hold your breath.
Regards </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Try to fight Spitfire Mk.IX 25lbs, they along with the A6M2s are the toughest fighter Ai you can find in the game.
Some of the more challenging setups would also be MC.200 vs I-16 type 24... peashooter vs nasty little bees that have powerful stings, quite tough.
Note that I am speaking in relative terms, i.e. fighting Ai planes with their natural historical adversaries such is P-40 vs A6M2, FW-190A9/D vs P-51D etc.
Of course if you use Me-163 vs I-16 or use Avia B.534 vs Yak-9UT this whole thing doesn't make much sense.
Bf-109G6_EARLY vs LA-7s is tough setup, no question about it, but while from the historical aspect it was possible, it is less likely that is what we would expect to see in the European skies late 1944 / 1945.

When I started to find fun fighting in QMB I couldn't figure out how to shoot 4 of those Spitfire aces down... quite soon I realized that the only way a player stands a chance is to bring down fight on the deck as soon as things become hot, otherwise they will snap shoot you to oblivion fast.

Try it, go Spitfires 25 and Lavochkin 7s and compare their fighting levels.

Here is track of me fighting four Spitfire 25s with Bf-109G6AS. Spitfires are set 1+1+1+1, they aren't linked which makes this setup a bit tougher than it would if they flew pairs; 2+2.

http://www.esnips.com/web/il2 (first track dkoor6as_4spit25_409.zip)

If you EVER manage to shoot Spitfires down in that difficulty setup with Bf-109G6_EARLY please post it on forum http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif.

BTW I have ton of various tracks versus Ai on different game versions, they quite differ in skill, with the note that current Ai is arguably most challenging Ai ever.
But my humble opinion is that it is also nowhere near to the "best Ai so far" title.

Jumoschwanz
07-14-2010, 05:53 AM
The thing that makes fighting any other aircraft in the 109G6 with default weapon loadout difficult is the armament. YOu are simply outgunned in every way. The Spitfire, Zero and La7 all have twice or more the firepower you do, and set to ACE they are going to be as good or better shot than you, so their odds of landing hits on you are two to three times in their favor.

To prove this, I took on four independent AI 25lb spits at 5k on the crimea Map, and I kept the fight high. I am a good shot, and I took my share of shots at them. But unless youhit the Spitfire in the engine, you are nine out of ten times not going to disable it enough to stop it from fighting.

The Spitfires though, with three times the firepower and a computer aiming their cannons are usually going to hit you if you give them a shot, and it is usually going to disable your 109G.

Next I ran the same fight but put the dual 20mm gunpods onto the early 109G6, and again keeping the fight high I shot two of the 25lbers out of the air, one disabled that bailed later, and the fourth Spit I did not have any ammo left to bring it down with.

So there is nothing wrong with the early 109G6 that is not wrong with the G2, F2 or F4 or G6late. The fact is that even with an expert pilot and sharpshooter in the seat, they need extra armament if they are going to compete fairly against fighters with three times the effective armament.....

So try it for yourself. compare the 109 with and without gunpods and you will see a big difference. I imagine if you even jump into a la73x or Spit yourself instead of the 109G/default you will see a big difference in the weapons effectiveness....

jameson2010
07-14-2010, 05:23 PM
Apologies have been busy and not much time to fly, but did watch DKoor's vid. Seemed like I was watching me but you do the chinshots better and probably fly better as well! I have trouble sometimes with coordinating the hatswitch views and get briefly disorientated and pay dearly sometimes for confusion, I need more practice and stick time. DKoor are you using a mouse for viewing?

I did try against 4 spits and managed to survive by staying rooted to the deck, got nowhere for 20 mins, so decided to fly back to base and land. Got down ok and managed to get almost to dispersal before being vulched. I was somewhat disappointed to have made it TBH, it being just a quirk of the game, the AI deck height, that saved me.

Jumo your observation re the g6 armament is well made, just like to note that gun convergence, which should make little difference in a fighter with such closely grouped weapons you'd think, is critical. I think it's very effective at convergence. But making the head on chinshot at convergence would require much practice to develop the knack as the window going head on is very small.

I also tried starting at 5k and it crossed my mind that in the g6as the tactic agaist la7's would be to climb, as in RL the 109 had 2000m ceiling advantage over them, not sure the game would be so obliging though. Anyways I headed for the deck after the initial pass. The extra height gave more time and space and was less stressful than at 1K where there's little time to overcome any tactical error. I've not tried staying at 5k yet, as in the vanilla g6, lack of speed and acceleration I feel is the biggest handicap, but it does have the ability to turn away and inside the attacker on your six, be it Spit or la7 and you sometimes get a quick shot as he overshoots. The extra under 2x20's would be pretty devastating that close. In some RL pilot's view the underslung weapons were more trouble than they were worth as the extra weight affected the handling somewhat, although in game I can't say as I'd noticed, so it's on my to do list!

I also note that ace AI seem to be less vulnerable, but not to me as hard to get as I16's, which only go down easily with a deflection shot to the engine! And they fly all over the place, making getting the shot harder.

Using 4 x single aces should be to my advantage, as it runs counter to military thought which always stresses the need to fly as a coordinated unit, but whether the game thinks this way is hard to tell. I felt under more pressure against 2 pairs rather than 4 singles. The singles seem to get in each others way sometimes!

On my last attempt against 4 La7 single aces, shot down two and damaged two. Had the oppurtunity to get a third one if I'd been prepared for a long climb, was closing slowly, but decided to leave him for another day. So I am progressing.

Thanks for taking to time to post and share your thoughts.

Best wishes.

DKoor
07-15-2010, 12:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
So there is nothing wrong with the early 109G6 that is not wrong with the G2, F2 or F4 or G6late. The fact is that even with an expert pilot and sharpshooter in the seat, they need extra armament if they are going to compete fairly against fighters with three times the effective armament..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's my point of view too, with one slight notice being that G2 is certainly best of all you mentioned being closely followed by F4. G6 Early/Galland are, we may say it fairly quite a dogs compared to these and I have a hard time picturing why they ever needed these for anything other than bomber intercepting (as they are inferior in everything but guns/armour to their potent F and G brothers).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I imagine if you even jump into a la73x or Spit yourself instead of the 109G/default you will see a big difference in the weapons effectiveness.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah that too.... Spitfire and LA-7 certainly have more potent armament, for me Hispano is number one.
As long as you get used to it it just owns.
However my personal bad is that I can't really shoot those shvaks for **** http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . I'm fairly good with Hispanos and .50s but ShVAKS's... nah http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

DKoor
07-15-2010, 12:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jameson2010:
Apologies have been busy and not much time to fly, but did watch DKoor's vid. Seemed like I was watching me but you do the chinshots better and probably fly better as well! I have trouble sometimes with coordinating the hatswitch views and get briefly disorientated and pay dearly sometimes for confusion, I need more practice and stick time. DKoor are you using a mouse for viewing?

I did try against 4 spits and managed to survive by staying rooted to the deck, got nowhere for 20 mins, so decided to fly back to base and land. Got down ok and managed to get almost to dispersal before being vulched. I was somewhat disappointed to have made it TBH, it being just a quirk of the game, the AI deck height, that saved me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I use my hat switch on Saitek EVO, never used mouse or anything else.
Also I've mapped key 4 on that joystick to instant view forward so in confusion I just click it and it centers. Especially helps when I'm prepared to take a shot.

You will probably notice that the most effective way to deal with Ai is to fly on deck regardless of plane types... that is why I somehow dislike this Ai, 16 of this Ai isn't really worth 2 human flown planes!
Human will simply stick to your 6 and send you in dirt while Ai will do the same only if you let them to or if you are pinned from every side (can't happen if you fly on deck so that is primary reason to do it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

After you get some stick time, and much more importantly when you get used to your guns (that is no.1 priority in this game as this game isn't about panoramic flying) you will do good.

Also you will see that online people can be mostly put into two categories, those that are hunters and those that are shooters (I admit I got this from line from Manfred von Richthofen http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).
Shooters will shoot & miss a lot and hunters will hit a lot being the main difference.

People that are sharpshooters usually either have excessive experience with the game or fairly good experience on one type of armament.

I recommend that you also check out the gun convergence threads for your favourite weapon.

Flying? It will come natural as you progress (especially if you dig one breed of fighters), but believe me what you really want to master is shooting.

PS. in 109G6AS vs LA-7 setup if you go to altitude, then try to fight between 3000m and 5000m as 109 has advantage in speed on those alts.

jameson2010
07-15-2010, 04:59 AM
I don't think in RL the 109's 20mm was weak armament, Gunther Rall said it got the job done (He would know!).

I hate to bring this up, but there was a mod by UF Josse way back when, that modelled 20mm mineshells for the 109's hub canon and when you hit the target it stayed hit!
In the current UP 2.0, I think something similar or a weakened version of it is included, but as I mainly fly 4.09 on realistic settings these days, I'm no longer that familar with mods. But a positive results would certainly help to improve shooting maybe I'll dig it out and try it again!

Although the early G6 is generally regarded as the dog of the 109's in IL2, I decided to concentrate on flying it, reasoning that if I could fly it very well, then flying any other, faster and more heavily armed version of it would be like taking candy from a baby. Have been attempting to learn to fly it very fast, 450 to 650kph, I'm gradually getting there.

I do concur again with Jumo though about ingame armament strength of the single 20mm set up, sometimes I know I must be hitting the target via a deflection shot but see little evidence of having done so. As I improve I find I'm also having to attempt blind under the nose shots more often in a turn fight and the lack of evidence regarding hits isn't exactly heartening, but it's all practice...

Last night took out 4 x La7 aces without firing a shot. Have track if you'd like to see it. When converging at the same height, first I diverged away from them, then back in descending slighting as they got nearer (300m ish) I increased rate of descent and turn, and as they tried to follow me, the wing men hit the leaders in quick succesion as the leaders pulled across them.

I've managed this feat before v p40's on occasion thinking it was just a fluke, but now believe it's a weakness in AI modelling or it's deliberately modelled that way. Either way, it's something I'll try to exploit more often!
Have you experienced this?
Regards

mortoma
07-16-2010, 08:46 PM
Once you've flown against the IL2 AI for years like I have you have very little problem with any of them. The one way I try to make things interesting and more challenging nowadays is by flying a plane that is outdated for it's time or piggier than my opposition will be. Or set up Dgen to make the enemy outnumber my friendly flight/s most of the time. Even that does not always help.

Once I ended up ( in LaGG-3-S4, IIRC ) with six 109-F4s around me, as I was the only friendly left. I had only about half my ammo left but I managed to down all six of them. It was challenging for sure because any time I got on a six I got one of them on my six in seconds. So I had to slowly get them by high deflection and frontal attacks.

Then there was the time I was in a Beaufighter, which is not your best handling plane out there for sure and I got surrounded by four ace Zeros. I actually lived through that too, killing all of them!! The fact that the Beau has fearsome forward firepower ( if you can just get that shot ) help a bit of course. Again I had to get crazy angle deflection on them.

Just a few days ago I was flying my mod install and decided to play the same mission I had just flown in a 109, but this time as the pilot of the FW-189 observation plane I had just escorted as the 109 pilot. Went into FMB and changed to the pilot of the FW-189 ( it has a decent original mod panel now, BTW ) and I ended up shooting down a Yak of all the crazy things. It does have forward firing guns and a gunsight but the two MGs are peashooters and it's doggy and slow! Pretty crazy to get a kill in a plane like that though.

DKoor
07-17-2010, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jameson2010:
I don't think in RL the 109's 20mm was weak armament, Gunther Rall said it got the job done (He would know!). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The ones I'm most used to are MG151/20s... I did a lot of flying on German platforms.
However, although ShVAK shell is weaker Lavochkin family is equipped with two of those therefore they have increased hit power.
Spitfires too (Tempest is overkill) and their 2xHispano also have more firepower than our vulgaris Bf-109 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . But average Hispano is also more powerful shell than MG151/20.
As evidences show in this place over the time, that happen to be case IRL and in game too.
No mistakes here, all cannons in game are quite powerful and there are worlds apart between them and any kind of machine guns.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Although the early G6 is generally regarded as the dog of the 109's in IL2, I decided to concentrate on flying it, reasoning that if I could fly it very well, then flying any other, faster and more heavily armed version of it would be like taking candy from a baby. Have been attempting to learn to fly it very fast, 450 to 650kph, I'm gradually getting there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Mate you may try it and enjoy it, but once you wing a decent guy online that flies on G2 (and you in G6) you will realize that G6 is without any doubt a dog in fighter combat. That is the best possible test of all, straight to the online combat.
The only thing it really is good at is bomber intercepting.
And also you wont gain anything other than frustration if you force to employ it in any given role. That is only a freindly advice, you may do whatever you please of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Last night took out 4 x La7 aces without firing a shot. Have track if you'd like to see it. When converging at the same height, first I diverged away from them, then back in descending slighting as they got nearer (300m ish) I increased rate of descent and turn, and as they tried to follow me, the wing men hit the leaders in quick succesion as the leaders pulled across them.

I've managed this feat before v p40's on occasion thinking it was just a fluke, but now believe it's a weakness in AI modelling or it's deliberately modelled that way. Either way, it's something I'll try to exploit more often!
Have you experienced this?
Regards </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Please post the track, I've experienced that two of them crashed onto each other but 4 of them, I can't recall ever... that must have been one hell of a sight http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif .

jameson2010
07-17-2010, 06:07 AM
Your wish is my command! If you watch this as is, you'll see what I saw which wasn't much, and explains why I was subsequently flying around in circles! I fully expected to be bounced by at least 2 of them. To see the collisions you'll have to go F2 external. It's a v4.09 trk.

http://www.filefactory.com/fil...ly_v_4x_LA7_aces.trk (http://www.filefactory.com/file/b299415/n/109G6early_v_4x_LA7_aces.trk)

@ DKoor if you're offering a wingman slot G2+G6 I'd be happy to take up the offer but don't have comms, no mike!
Regards

DKoor
07-18-2010, 08:45 AM
Thanks for the track, watching it now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . Sure thing about giving it a go online... however I haven't seriously played for over a year now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .
Your nick on HL is same as here?
Mine is same, DKoor.

DKoor
07-18-2010, 08:53 AM
Track is hilarious... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jameson2010
07-18-2010, 12:52 PM
Glad you enjoyed the track. I've only ever been online once just to test my internet connection, joined a likely looking game, and I never saw another plane! Then they pulled the map!
I'm jameson in HL, meet you in the lobby and I'll leave the choice of where to fly up to you. Let me know when you'd like to do it, via pm? I'm in the UK so there may be a time difference? Am pretty flexible regarding time.
Cheers.

Xnomad
07-28-2010, 04:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
The thing that makes fighting any other aircraft in the 109G6 with default weapon loadout difficult is the armament. YOu are simply outgunned in every way.

But unless youhit the Spitfire in the engine, you are nine out of ten times not going to disable it enough to stop it from fighting.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi, I've been away from the game for around 3-4 years now and used to play it so much that I think I had a problem http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I started playing again a few weeks ago and I find the 4.09 Spits are so much easier to kill compared to back when I stopped playing. I might be wrong but I remember them being pretty tricky.

I've been flying my bf109 G2 and consistently knocking Spits out with quick deflection shots. One or two bursts and I've often got the AI to bail out or crash. Even on Ace AI settings.

Deflection shots seem to be the key here. Spits like most of the planes in the game don't damage as easily from straight up the six.

I also feel that the convergence settings have something to do with this regardless of the fact that the bf109 guns in real life didn't need to be harmonized. I think the software code does care when calculating damage, but I could be wrong.

In a G2 in terms of gunnery I feel I can be clinical; in a G6 I struggle although they are actually more heavily armed with 13mm MG 131.

Somehow the trajectory of the 13mm MG's tracers throw my deflection shooting out of whack. Even though it's the 151 cannon that does the actual damage I seem to have a lot more success when it's paired with two 7.92mm MG 17s rather than the MG 131.

This is probably also because the G6 turns so badly I have trouble getting the required lead for deflection and it's often a blind under the nose shot.

As it stands at the moment I find the G2 armament very good, but I hate the G6. On paper I would have thought my gunnery would be better in a G6 but It's a dog. It probably could be that I've got 100's, if not 1000's of http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif hours in a G2 though...

DKoor
07-28-2010, 06:47 AM
I think you got some things right XN... thing is that human manned Spitfire used to be extra monster in old game incarnations... but eventually it got a bit nerfed.
But I can't recall Ai Spit being better in any other game version (Spit IX 25 lbs that is, its history within this game isn't that old anyway).

About G6, being so much better in G2 probably isn't because you had more time in G2 than G6, it is simply because G6 suxor mucho compared to the G2. Me for instance I had much more time in G6 (I always preffered sex on skates - teh F4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif or the "new" dog G6).
Anyway I fought online in G6 quite a bit, especially on Eastern front, tackled Lavochkins 5, LaGGs, Yaks etc. It is all good as long as you have some sort of energy advantage, once that is gone... there is always CTRL+E http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

Jumoschwanz
07-28-2010, 10:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
it is simply because G6 suxor mucho compared to the G2. . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the 43'G6 is a slab of **** for sure. If you go against AI in it and switch to the G2 it is like half the weight of the aircraft is gone, you can actually fly circles around the AI spits in the G2, but in the early G6 it is like you have a circus fat-lady on the back of your scooter during rush-hour.

Even gunpods do not cut the handling of the G2 down, they just lop a hair off of it's top speed. The g6 really feels the gunpods but in putting them on at least then the early G6 can do SOMETHING halfway well....

Xnomad
07-29-2010, 03:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
But I can't recall Ai Spit being better in any other game version
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I didn't mean the AI was better just that the Spit seemed harder to damage back then.

I think I stopped playing somewhere around the 4.0 release and came back on 4.09. I was playing a lot less before I quit too, but I'm pretty sure the weapons (MG 151) are harder hitting now, I just love them at the moment. But yeah as I said I find the harder hitting combination harder to use in that G6 pig.

DKoor
07-29-2010, 05:23 AM
Thanks for the track Jumo! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Jumoschwanz
07-29-2010, 07:16 PM
If you switch between the G2 And G6 you will notice a big difference in the sound of the guns firing, doesn't mean a thing, just trivia.

On my YouTube channel I have a track of a 109g2 with gunpods beating the living**** out of anything that gets in front of it, it is an old track from CrazyIvan's dogfight server that was taken when FB was in patch 1.x..

The first effective use I saw of gunpods on a 109 was back when the Hurri first was out beating everyone up. I think it was Chivas on Aviar's server, zooming and booming HurriIIcs in the 109G with gunpods on, he was the hero of the night.....