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HoldSteady641
07-12-2005, 04:38 AM
Hi everyone. Something last night made me wondering. I was flying a rather early but nonetheless fine 109, with the round prop nose and a cannon in it, I don't know wether that's a 12,7 mm or a 20 mm cannon, I guess the latter.

This day bombers were on the menu, DB-3's. I allready shot a few Pe-2's days before. They're quite hard to destroy, with their backfiring habits, and being quite sturdy planes. But I got them allright, blew of their tail most of the time from behind. The DB-3's were a lot larger of course, so I went for the wings first at a distance of 350 metres I started shooting (got mg's converging on 300, cannons at 250). The wings were not bearing a lot of fuel or none at all, because I could fire all I want, but they only flew of some covering material. I restarted and went for the props. It went a little better, shooting the engines from the same distance (and closing, I would have about 5-7 seconds of firing time before disengaging at less than 100 metres), fuel leaks are scored quite fast, but engines themselves are hard to destroy from behinf. If you look closely, there's a lot of wing between the engine and my bullets.. :P Once I scored a nice blowup, the egine exploded out of the wing and went it's own way in a blaze of fire, but the bomber just flew on! albeit a bit slower..

Then, lastly, the brutal approach. Just hang behind the bomber's tail and blaze away. I scored more hits with this than any approach. I even tried forward approaches to hit the cockpit, but nothing worked better than just hanging behind the tail, start blazing at 350 metres and after a second of 4, 5, the tail just breaks and the bomber goes down.

It seems to me I'm not firing on them, I need to litterly SAW through them. Now, when I fira at the tail, into the fuselage, what exactly do I hit that makes the tail break? Structural damage to the fuselage? Do I blow op pieces of metal frame with my 20 mm? Or do I more likely break a rudder wing that catches a gust of wind that pulls an allready weakened fuselage apart? I wonder, what's your idea of this?

HoldSteady641
07-12-2005, 04:38 AM
Hi everyone. Something last night made me wondering. I was flying a rather early but nonetheless fine 109, with the round prop nose and a cannon in it, I don't know wether that's a 12,7 mm or a 20 mm cannon, I guess the latter.

This day bombers were on the menu, DB-3's. I allready shot a few Pe-2's days before. They're quite hard to destroy, with their backfiring habits, and being quite sturdy planes. But I got them allright, blew of their tail most of the time from behind. The DB-3's were a lot larger of course, so I went for the wings first at a distance of 350 metres I started shooting (got mg's converging on 300, cannons at 250). The wings were not bearing a lot of fuel or none at all, because I could fire all I want, but they only flew of some covering material. I restarted and went for the props. It went a little better, shooting the engines from the same distance (and closing, I would have about 5-7 seconds of firing time before disengaging at less than 100 metres), fuel leaks are scored quite fast, but engines themselves are hard to destroy from behinf. If you look closely, there's a lot of wing between the engine and my bullets.. :P Once I scored a nice blowup, the egine exploded out of the wing and went it's own way in a blaze of fire, but the bomber just flew on! albeit a bit slower..

Then, lastly, the brutal approach. Just hang behind the bomber's tail and blaze away. I scored more hits with this than any approach. I even tried forward approaches to hit the cockpit, but nothing worked better than just hanging behind the tail, start blazing at 350 metres and after a second of 4, 5, the tail just breaks and the bomber goes down.

It seems to me I'm not firing on them, I need to litterly SAW through them. Now, when I fira at the tail, into the fuselage, what exactly do I hit that makes the tail break? Structural damage to the fuselage? Do I blow op pieces of metal frame with my 20 mm? Or do I more likely break a rudder wing that catches a gust of wind that pulls an allready weakened fuselage apart? I wonder, what's your idea of this?

F19_Ob
07-12-2005, 06:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HoldSteady641:
Now, when I fira at the tail, into the fuselage, what exactly do I hit that makes the tail break? Structural damage to the fuselage? Do I blow op pieces of metal frame with my 20 mm? Or do I more likely break a rudder wing that catches a gust of wind that pulls an allready weakened fuselage apart? I wonder, what's your idea of this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi there.
The answer is , likely all that u mentioned.
Allthough this sim is fantastic regarding damage the damage model is still simplifyed.

What u hit is so called "hit boxes"(or equivalent) and enough hit on such a box is what triggers and reveals the damage.
So for example, there are a number of hit boxes in the engine wich cause different damage.
No one knows exactly how many such hitboxes exists but in some earlier sims were the code was released to the public u could actually reveal and add hitboxes with specially written programs to open the structure of the planes. Cfs1 series to mention one.

Now when u fire from directly behind u hit more of the hitboxes closest to u but if u switch the game to arcade mode u will see that a hit will result in a "hit arrow" and it will reach a certain amount into the plane wich means a bullet can do damage to hitboxes behind the one U hit. This makes the damage very realistic.
Likely the damage will be even more advanced in the next sim to come, 'BoB, (battle of Brittain) but meanwhile we may enjoy the best damage in a ww2 sim yet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


I'm not sure what oleg and his team calls the "hitboxes" in this sim but i talked to a person many years ago who worked with these things and he said they generally were known as hitboxes , regardles of shape.

Well, I can't explain it more detailed than this. if u want more I suspect someone from the development team must answer it.
It may be a secret of the trade so u might not get answers though, but it sure would be interesting to get a bit more insight in this sim.

regards

PBNA-Boosher
07-12-2005, 06:30 AM
Your best bet against DB-3's is the wing root. That's where the fuel is. That is one big hitbox too, so if you get high or preferably low enough to get shots there and not hit the elevator, do it. It will go down quicker.

Do a few practice missions in the QMB against every plane. Learn their weakspots.

HoldSteady641
07-12-2005, 07:26 AM
thanks for the info lads!