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Xanatos2007
10-24-2009, 01:45 AM
I stumbled across a book about the Hashshashin called Assassin!: The deadly art of the cult of Assassins. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/16623931/-Assassin-The-Deadly-Art-Of-The-Cult-Of-The-Assassins-) I don't have time to read through the whole thing, but I had a quick flip through the book and noticed a lot of similarities with Assassin's Creed.

First of all, on the cover the second "A" in Assassin is shaped nearly exactly like Altair's hidden blade...
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7526/hashbook1.jpg

I also found a ranking chart (similar in shape to the training ring in Masyaf) which also contained a few familiar words...
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4919/hashbook2.jpg
This symbol is also cast onto Altair's gauntlet in a few artworks... (you might need to adjust your brightness to see the symbol on Altair's hand)
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3185/hashbook3.jpg

And this should put an end to the 'origin of the Assassin's symbol' argument (or start another one)...
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/759/haskbook4.jpg

This just further proves that Ubisoft really paid attention to the historical facts and details in AC1. I'm sure there's more similarities, but you guys can search for them. I also recall seeing 'Janna' (the Assassins hand-to-hand combat method) in there somewhere, for those of you who deny its existence.

Xanatos2007
10-24-2009, 01:45 AM
I stumbled across a book about the Hashshashin called Assassin!: The deadly art of the cult of Assassins. (http://www.scribd.com/doc/16623931/-Assassin-The-Deadly-Art-Of-The-Cult-Of-The-Assassins-) I don't have time to read through the whole thing, but I had a quick flip through the book and noticed a lot of similarities with Assassin's Creed.

First of all, on the cover the second "A" in Assassin is shaped nearly exactly like Altair's hidden blade...
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7526/hashbook1.jpg

I also found a ranking chart (similar in shape to the training ring in Masyaf) which also contained a few familiar words...
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4919/hashbook2.jpg
This symbol is also cast onto Altair's gauntlet in a few artworks... (you might need to adjust your brightness to see the symbol on Altair's hand)
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3185/hashbook3.jpg

And this should put an end to the 'origin of the Assassin's symbol' argument (or start another one)...
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/759/haskbook4.jpg

This just further proves that Ubisoft really paid attention to the historical facts and details in AC1. I'm sure there's more similarities, but you guys can search for them. I also recall seeing 'Janna' (the Assassins hand-to-hand combat method) in there somewhere, for those of you who deny its existence.

drfeelgood8849
10-24-2009, 01:50 AM
Dr haha. lulz.

Drakonous505
10-24-2009, 07:51 AM
Nice find http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

But the last image doesn't work D:

Hideru
10-24-2009, 08:01 AM
I don't know why people and Wikipedia got it wrong. The word 'Hashashin' is actually a plural for 'Hashash'. Hashash means a person who takes drugs and Hashashin is just the meaning of people taking drugs. Hence why hashish in arabic means weed.

I think it was just a word lost in translation of how it evolved into assassin. Someone probably called the assassins murderers and crazy. So it might make sense calling them hashashin to refer them as crack head murderers. lol.

Xanatos2007
10-24-2009, 08:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Drakonous505:
But the last image doesn't work D: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
How about now? (http://img148.imageshack.us/i/haskbook4.jpg/)

EDIT: You can also right-click on the red cross and select "Show picture".

salted onions
10-24-2009, 09:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hideru:
I don't know why people and Wikipedia got it wrong. The word 'Hashashin' is actually a plural for 'Hashash'. Hashash means a person who takes drugs and Hashashin is just the meaning of people taking drugs. Hence why hashish in arabic means weed.

I think it was just a word lost in translation of how it evolved into assassin. Someone probably called the assassins murderers and crazy. So it might make sense calling them hashashin to refer them as crack head murderers. lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I read a while ago that the Hashashins were a people who were mercenaries, and in order to celebrate successful assassinations did some hash. Hence the name, Hashashin, or "People who do hash/drugs."

An_Idea
10-24-2009, 09:20 AM
nice find http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

kyleagius
10-24-2009, 09:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hideru:
I don't know why people and Wikipedia got it wrong. The word 'Hashashin' is actually a plural for 'Hashash'. Hashash means a person who takes drugs and Hashashin is just the meaning of people taking drugs. Hence why hashish in arabic means weed.

I think it was just a word lost in translation of how it evolved into assassin. Someone probably called the assassins murderers and crazy. So it might make sense calling them hashashin to refer them as crack head murderers. lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is kind of true as was what childprodigy said but another of the reasons they are named so is that to truly become an assasin recruits were effectivley 'killed' where they were given halucagenic drugs and surrounded by beautiful women in a paradise-like garden where they would be told they were in heaven they would eventually wake up and truly believ their masters had control over life and death. Sound familiar to events that happen in AC1? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Stormpen
10-24-2009, 10:06 AM
Amazing. Ubi did so much research into AC. And ACII is supposed to be even better....

Nice find Xanatos. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

UchihaKarasu
10-24-2009, 11:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hideru:
I don't know why people and Wikipedia got it wrong. The word 'Hashashin' is actually a plural for 'Hashash'. Hashash means a person who takes drugs and Hashashin is just the meaning of people taking drugs. Hence why hashish in arabic means weed.

I think it was just a word lost in translation of how it evolved into assassin. Someone probably called the assassins murderers and crazy. So it might make sense calling them hashashin to refer them as crack head murderers. lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, this is somewhat incorrect. This is kind of like the "Marco Polo" theory which, unfortunately, has shaped many people's view of the Hashashin.
Marco Polo claimed to have visited Alamut and come up with the drug usage and the Garden of Paradise. The time when Marco Polo was said to have visited Alamut was actually after it was destroyed by the Mongols.
Hashashin can also be translated into several things, one of them being "like those who smoke hashish" which has often led many to believe they did smoke it. In reality, things such as drugs or alcohol were against the laws of the Hashashin, as they could intoxicate the mind. I believe it was Sinan that killed his own son for drinking. Even music was banned from the Hashashin.

Anyways, nice find Xana, I always try to get my hands on books about the Hashashin, I'll have to read this http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Stormpen
10-24-2009, 11:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I believe it was Sinan that killed his own son for drinking. Even music was banned from the Hashashin. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, history. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

UchihaKarasu
10-24-2009, 11:34 AM
Yes, history is charming http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But one of my goals in life is to destroy the STUPID! Marco Polo Theory! That dude was a lying bastard! He claimed to have found dragons in his travels!........
....
okay, well if they have dinosaurs in the Bible, I guess he could have found creatures like dragons.....but STILL! That man LIES!!!!

SBRedFlag
10-24-2009, 11:47 AM
Ok, the only reason that Malik is familiar is because in Hindi (one of the languages of India) and probably Arabic and other languages as well, Malik means something similar to "head honcho" or as noted in your book, "Chief of Chiefs". Malik is also a name meaning those things. So the use of Malik as a character's name was a coincidence at best.

Since in India, you can even call a police chief "Malik". It's a term of respect, not just a rank of the Hashashin.

UchihaKarasu
10-24-2009, 11:57 AM
Malik is also defined in the Qur'an as a being the warden of Hell. Malik also translates into "King" from Arabic, so it is assumed that Malik is "King" of Hell. However Malik is not an evil angel, nor a fallen one, a notion Islam rejects, rather Malik is merely doing what he is commanded to do by God.

SBRedFlag
10-24-2009, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UchihaKarasu:
Malik is also defined in the Qur'an as a being the warden of Hell. Malik also translates into "King" from Arabic, so it is assumed that Malik is "King" of Hell. However Malik is not an evil angel, nor a fallen one, a notion Islam rejects, rather Malik is merely doing what he is commanded to do by God. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, but I doubt that that's why they named Malik Malik.

KZarr
10-24-2009, 01:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
First of all, on the cover the second "A" in Assassin is shaped nearly exactly like Altair's hidden blade...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
it's also shaped like nearly every other small knive/blade in the world.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4919/hashbook2.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Malik means king and Rafiq is also an just an Arabic word. So Malik/Rafiq simply refers to the ranks and are no reference to the BureauLeaders in the game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
This symbol is also cast onto Altair's gauntlet in a few artworks... (you might need to adjust your brightness to see the symbol on Altair's hand)
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's interesting. I've never seen it before. Nice find.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
And this should put an end to the 'origin of the Assassin's symbol' argument (or start another one)...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can't see it. But I want to see it...

Xanatos2007
10-24-2009, 06:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UchihaKarasu:
Anyways, nice find Xana, I always try to get my hands on books about the Hashashin, I'll have to read this http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've got two other books (physical ones)...

The Assassins: Holy Killers of Islam by Edward Burman
Alamut by Vladimir Bartol (the one AC is based on, it even says it in the blurb http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif)

It might take me a while to get through them both because I've got about this many (http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/200333446-001.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=052B350AE763EDA7C859D604D17741D4D4B40B3E875A785D ) assignments to do, but you can try and hunt them down if you wish. All the bookstores here didn't have them, I had to order them from overseas.

@Everyone_else: If you still can't see that final pic, it's on the 49th page of the Hashshashin book (first link, first post). You can also try refreshing the page or right-clicking on the red-X-white-box thing and select "Show picture".

General_Lekauf
10-24-2009, 11:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by UchihaKarasu:
Yes, history is charming http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But one of my goals in life is to destroy the STUPID! Marco Polo Theory! That dude was a lying bastard! He claimed to have found dragons in his travels!........
....
okay, well if they have dinosaurs in the Bible, I guess he could have found creatures like dragons.....but STILL! That man LIES!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


actually dragons are/were real but not like what every one thinks when you hear the word dragon most didnt have wings or four legs and i think the leviathin wich if im correct is still around is/was a water dragonseeing as it breathed fire and is/was invincible lol this really has nothing to do with the topics and i get my info from my studies the leviathin is the awsomest non fiction water creature ever lol

EmperorxZurg
10-24-2009, 11:57 PM
umm, the leviathan were actually easily hunted prey with their only defense being the short bursts of flame they could conjugate which would still hurt them by taking their breath for the fueling of the fire, this is why they are extinct now. And Scientists just claim this is the dragon along with a newt Marco Polo supposedly found first that was like a long worm but had four stubby legs and sorta resembled the ones of legend

Big-Boss_777
10-25-2009, 01:15 AM
indeed intruiging find http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Celeon999
10-25-2009, 03:43 AM
The history of the Hashashin is actually pretty sketchy and what is "known" should be taken with a grain of salt.

The problem is that most of what is believed to be known about them comes from rather unreliable historical sources like the crusaders or other muslim sects that hated them and marked them as non-believers.


So in that case the facts are hard to keep seperate of the propaganda as unbiased sources are effectivly impossible to find.

For instance the word Hashashin suggests drug usage which fits to the stories told by Marco Polo.

But most people dont know that this word was also a common form of an insult back then.

Hashashin means "abstracted" or "other-wordly"

Someone who is considered to be not normal, you could also say someone who is crazy or nuts or simply disgusting.

Marco Polo never saw the things told about Hassan-i-Sabah with his own eyes. His information come stories that were told to him.


Its just like with roman historians.

They had a habit of describing all their enemies as child-eating , cultureless ,violent and monstrous barbarians which had to be defeated while in fact the romans themselves were usually the invaders and often more brutal themselves.


The roman historian Tacitus on the other hand made a neutral approach to researching other cultures like Germanians.

Most of what is today "known" about the germanians comes from his book Germania.

BUT, it is extremely important to understand that Tacitus himself NEVER visited Germania.

He never set foot on land of the people he wrote about.

All he wrote in his extensive book about the culture , religion and life of the germanians comes from sources that either visited the country or claimed to have visited Germania and who were afterwards interviewed by him.

So its impossible to say how much of the things in this book are fact and how much is ,wrongly interpreted or even completely fabricated. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Xanatos2007
10-25-2009, 03:57 AM
The main reason we don't know much about the Hashshashin is because when the Mongols captured Alamut (in 1256AD) they destroyed the Assassin library, along with all other written sources. Marco Polo's recount of visiting the Hashshashin is entirely false since he claimed to have visited Alamut in 1273AD, but it was only recaptured by the Hashshashin in 1275AD - 2 years after MP's "visit".

UchihaKarasu
10-25-2009, 09:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Celeon999:
The history of the Hashashin is actually pretty sketchy and what is "known" should be taken with a grain of salt.

The problem is that most of what is believed to be known about them comes from rather unreliable historical sources like the crusaders or other muslim sects that hated them and marked them as non-believers.


So in that case the facts are hard to keep seperate of the propaganda as unbiased sources are effectivly impossible to find.

For instance the word Hashashin suggests drug usage which fits to the stories told by Marco Polo.

But most people dont know that this word was also a common form of an insult back then.

Hashashin means "abstracted" or "other-wordly"

Someone who is considered to be not normal, you could also say someone who is crazy or nuts or simply disgusting.

Marco Polo never saw the things told about Hassan-i-Sabah with his own eyes. His information come stories that were told to him.


Its just like with roman historians.

They had a habit of describing all their enemies as child-eating , cultureless ,violent and monstrous barbarians which had to be defeated while in fact the romans themselves were usually the invaders and often more brutal themselves.


The roman historian Tacitus on the other hand made a neutral approach to researching other cultures like Germanians.

Most of what is today "known" about the germanians comes from his book Germania.

BUT, it is extremely important to understand that Tacitus himself NEVER visited Germania.

He never set foot on land of the people he wrote about.

All he wrote in his extensive book about the culture , religion and life of the germanians comes from sources that either visited the country or claimed to have visited Germania and who were afterwards interviewed by him.

So its impossible to say how much of the things in this book are fact and how much is ,wrongly interpreted or even completely fabricated. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
amen to that, lol

General_Lekauf
10-25-2009, 12:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
umm, the leviathan were actually easily hunted prey with their only defense being the short bursts of flame they could conjugate which would still hurt them by taking their breath for the fueling of the fire, this is why they are extinct now. And Scientists just claim this is the dragon along with a newt Marco Polo supposedly found first that was like a long worm but had four stubby legs and sorta resembled the ones of legend </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


ever heard of the big beep and by the way there was only one leviathin and it still lives but the big beep was an extremely loud organic noise that came fromthe bottum of a trench almostt 2,000 miles down and i say it was from the leviathin wich as i stated was only one and there still is only one and it was invicible seeing as anything that they tried to kill it with bounced off this was not some small water dinausor it could talk i think and was huge regular smaller similar dinausors would have made easy killing but this one it could sense fear and would never leave any that feard it alive because thats just what it did but it vanished and i say it went to a trench when the great flood came and slept that is probably similar time to its disapperance

SBRedFlag
10-25-2009, 02:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by General_Lekauf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
umm, the leviathan were actually easily hunted prey with their only defense being the short bursts of flame they could conjugate which would still hurt them by taking their breath for the fueling of the fire, this is why they are extinct now. And Scientists just claim this is the dragon along with a newt Marco Polo supposedly found first that was like a long worm but had four stubby legs and sorta resembled the ones of legend </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


ever heard of the big beep and by the way there was only one leviathin and it still lives but the big beep was an extremely loud organic noise that came fromthe bottum of a trench almostt 2,000 miles down and i say it was from the leviathin wich as i stated was only one and there still is only one and it was invicible seeing as anything that they tried to kill it with bounced off this was not some small water dinausor it could talk i think and was huge regular smaller similar dinausors would have made easy killing but this one it could sense fear and would never leave any that feard it alive because thats just what it did but it vanished and i say it went to a trench when the great flood came and slept that is probably similar time to its disapperance </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...it's not the big "beep"... it's the bloop.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloop

Also, learn to put periods between sentences. I couldn't make heads or tails of what you just said besides "beep" "invincible" levithing" and "dinosaur!!! RAWR!"
Well, not the last part.

Xanatos2007
10-25-2009, 02:30 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
So, Assassins...

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">I get to stay home today because it's raining and my dad is too scared to drive me to the station
or something. He's worse than a cat...</pre>

General_Lekauf
10-25-2009, 03:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sbredflag:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by General_Lekauf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by d1sturbedme_468:
umm, the leviathan were actually easily hunted prey with their only defense being the short bursts of flame they could conjugate which would still hurt them by taking their breath for the fueling of the fire, this is why they are extinct now. And Scientists just claim this is the dragon along with a newt Marco Polo supposedly found first that was like a long worm but had four stubby legs and sorta resembled the ones of legend </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


ever heard of the big beep and by the way there was only one leviathin and it still lives but the big beep was an extremely loud organic noise that came fromthe bottum of a trench almostt 2,000 miles down and i say it was from the leviathin wich as i stated was only one and there still is only one and it was invicible seeing as anything that they tried to kill it with bounced off this was not some small water dinausor it could talk i think and was huge regular smaller similar dinausors would have made easy killing but this one it could sense fear and would never leave any that feard it alive because thats just what it did but it vanished and i say it went to a trench when the great flood came and slept that is probably similar time to its disapperance </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...it's not the big "beep"... it's the bloop.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloop

Also, learn to put periods between sentences. I couldn't make heads or tails of what you just said besides "beep" "invincible" levithing" and "dinosaur!!! RAWR!"
Well, not the last part. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


lol sorry i wasnt the one to stumble upon that it was my brother who found it