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Seawolfrpf
08-31-2005, 08:23 PM
When are you going to patch the spitfires back to its real flight module. I greman plan should not be able to out turn a spitfire. Please make this a realistic sim instead of a arcade game thanks.

Seawolfrpf
08-31-2005, 08:23 PM
When are you going to patch the spitfires back to its real flight module. I greman plan should not be able to out turn a spitfire. Please make this a realistic sim instead of a arcade game thanks.

FritzGryphon
08-31-2005, 08:31 PM
Greman planes don't outturn a Spit, any Spit. Not until there's He-51 in the game.

Even clipped wing SpitIX (worst turning spit) has better sustained turn than Bf-109F (best turning 109). Much better elevator lightness, too.

If you can prove otherwise, I'll mail you a cookie.

HellToupee
09-04-2005, 07:04 AM
try a g2 that can easily outturn a mk9, just use flaps. Its certianly more stable at low speed.

new-fherathras
09-04-2005, 09:32 AM
can you feel it?

IIJG69_Kartofe
09-04-2005, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Seawolfrpf:
When are you going to patch the spitfires back to its real flight module. I greman plan should not be able to out turn a spitfire. Please make this a realistic sim instead of a arcade game thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you have mailed at Maddox games your datas & test about the real "flight module" of the spits ??? (in game & RL datas of course).

PFS_BlackBird
09-04-2005, 10:41 AM
Spitfire outturns Bf109 but not on all speeds. I think you might want to learn your Spit a little better.


BB

Pinker15
09-04-2005, 02:18 PM
In spit IX situation 109 is not so big threat and please stop whine. 109 G6/AS is more dangerous than 109 G2. In 1 vs 1 conditions I think Spit IX is still superior to 109 G2.

VW-IceFire
09-04-2005, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Seawolfrpf:
When are you going to patch the spitfires back to its real flight module. I greman plan should not be able to out turn a spitfire. Please make this a realistic sim instead of a arcade game thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're assuming or appearing to assume that ALL German planes are outturned by ALL Spitfires and that this holds true in all situations. It does not.

The Spitfire Mark I and Bf109E for instance are very similar in turns with the Spitfires turn being slightly better. The Mark V generally turned better than the 109E's and was slightly better than the 109F's but the contest was close. The Spitfire IX turned better than the Bf109G's for the most part...but generally at higher speeds. Optimal turn speeds for the Spitfire are in the 250-350kph range while the 109 gains advantage under that range thanks to its wing slats.

In general the Spitfire of all models outturn the contemporary Bf109 models at medium speeds and the 109s gain advantage at low speed. Fly at lower speeds and the 109 will catch you.

Now...at the moment, some of the late 109s I think handle a little too well for such heavily laden aircraft. These 109s should be faster...particularly thanks to the MW50 than the 1943 Spitfire IX we have...but they shouldn't be quite able to outturn for very long.

Also, you may be confusing a very short sharp instant turn with a continuous sustained turn. In a sustained turn at the proper speed, the Spitfire will win every time. The 109 CAN...even the late models, do a nice instant turn trading much of their speed to pull lead to shoot. With a good pilot behind the controls with good gunnery, you're generally dead. You don't want to be there.

Utilize superior tactics. Take the fight to 20,000 feet where the Spitfire is superior and learn your fighter a little better than you do now.

FritzGryphon
09-04-2005, 05:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The Spitfire Mark I and Bf109E for instance are very similar in turns </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

109E is the worst of all 109s. Spit I is the best of all Spits. These two have the largest difference of any Spit/109 comparison.

If level sustained turning ability is the benchmark, they stack up like this.

SpitI
SpitV
SpitIX
SpitIXCW
109F
109G
109K
109G pods
109K pods
109E

But, like you said, later 109s and Spits might turn better for short, instantaneous turns, because they'll generally have more speed to dump.

PFS_BlackBird
09-04-2005, 06:01 PM
It's about the speed Gryphon. Go below that 250kph and you could put that list of yours upside down. It's not just about stats. You've got to know when and how to turn to really take advantage of it.

Bf109 can outturn Spitfires in certain conditions. Be sure.


BB

Abbuzze
09-04-2005, 06:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PFS_BlackBird:

Bf109 can outturn Spitfires in certain conditions. Be sure.


BB </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct, every type of plane can outturn another typd in certain conditions. Also 190 can outturn Spits.

PikeBishop
09-05-2005, 06:47 AM
Hello all,
I wish to make a point here. Turn radius is based on 2 things. Wing loading and excess power above that which is required to fly.
AT ALL SPEEDS the aircraft with the lower wing loading will out-turn the one with the higher wing loading, until the pilot blacks out or structural failure occurs. (The graph is linear except at the stall where it flattens out). If the speed begins to drop in the turn and approaches the stall then the pilot must drop the nose in the turn trading height for the maintanence of speed. If engine power is greater (power loading) at a particular altitude the drag due to the tightness of the turn can be held at bay but at any given speed the lower wing loading allows a tighter turn at that speed. With regard to the idea that the 109 can turn better at lower speeds, the wing slats may offer some (or more) stability at these speeds but to try to match the spitfire's turn would inevitably lead to rolling out of the turn to avoid a stall.
Note that the available 'g' at a specific speed is equal to the given speed divided by the stall speed and the answer squared.

VW-IceFire
09-05-2005, 08:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The Spitfire Mark I and Bf109E for instance are very similar in turns </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

109E is the worst of all 109s. Spit I is the best of all Spits. These two have the largest difference of any Spit/109 comparison.

If level sustained turning ability is the benchmark, they stack up like this.

SpitI
SpitV
SpitIX
SpitIXCW
109F
109G
109K
109G pods
109K pods
109E

But, like you said, later 109s and Spits might turn better for short, instantaneous turns, because they'll generally have more speed to dump. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What I said about the 109E and the Spitfire was a RAF report. I just know the outcome and nothing else. It seems some Luftwaffe pilots were able to wring a very good turn out of even the 109E...but its an oval shaped turn and probably with quite a bit of energy behind it. The Spitfire Mark I is still better overall.

Yesterday I did manage to get into a turn fight with a 109G-6A/S which was a dangerous plane to get into a turn fight because its one of the few later 109s with quite a bit of excessive power to keep it going around without the weight to knock it down. The fight was mostly a stalemate but I was gaining on him when some other Spitfires and FW190s ventured into the fight. He was slowing down quite a bit and I was keeping my speed...definately a wide circled fight and I think I probably would have won it.

Gotta know the plane. If either of us had stalled out trying to turn too tighly...the fight would probably be over.

Hetzer_II
09-05-2005, 08:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Wing loading </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean liftload... right?

KIMURA
09-05-2005, 08:20 AM
turn inside a Spit - please click me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (http://www.netaces.org/genplanes/planes.html)

p1ngu666
09-05-2005, 08:57 AM
IRL spit pilots could do stall speed turns and outturn 109s.

theres a bit in a book called "shot down in flames" or similer (title has changed over time)
hes in a IX against a 109 he cant shake, goes into a ever tightning turn, his plane shaking but the 109 stalls and hits the ground