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ParrotPatrol
06-18-2008, 12:39 PM
I bought this game off steam yesterday, and let me get one thing straight, I haven't played a flight sim EVER. I managed to get my planes off the ground, execute basic maneuvers, and even survive a dogfight (I winged 2 guys!). But I cannot land. I have tried making a multiplayer game and practicing landing repeatedly. Every single time I go in between 150-220KM, good angle, landing gear down, landing flaps, front gear first, and my landing gear ALWAYS disintegrates on contact. No matter what I try, no matter what new trick I think of, my landing gear always disintegrates and I'm left sitting here looking like a fool with a messed up propeller.

Help?

ParrotPatrol
06-18-2008, 12:39 PM
I bought this game off steam yesterday, and let me get one thing straight, I haven't played a flight sim EVER. I managed to get my planes off the ground, execute basic maneuvers, and even survive a dogfight (I winged 2 guys!). But I cannot land. I have tried making a multiplayer game and practicing landing repeatedly. Every single time I go in between 150-220KM, good angle, landing gear down, landing flaps, front gear first, and my landing gear ALWAYS disintegrates on contact. No matter what I try, no matter what new trick I think of, my landing gear always disintegrates and I'm left sitting here looking like a fool with a messed up propeller.

Help?

SeaFireLIV
06-18-2008, 12:45 PM
Sounds like you`re coming in too fast and heavy. Are you flaring at the last minute?
What aircraft are you flying?

You`ve only had the game one day. IL2 is not a rush game, give it a week or so practise. Keep practising, you`ll get the feel for it.

gorkyporky
06-18-2008, 12:46 PM
go at a steady speed, i usualy land at about 170-180, but use speed that is most comfortable for you. TRIM THE AIRCRAFT! And before hitting the ground, FLARE (pull back stick to slow down) and set it down SLOWLY.

p.s. how did you manage to shoot down two guys on your fisr day? are you sure you are using full real settings?

Flight_Catalyst
06-18-2008, 12:48 PM
I'm sure you're about to get flooded with great responses detailing stall speeds of each plane, optimal rate of decent on approach and all that jazz.

So in the mean time, I'll provide a simple suggestion. Use F2 (3rd person view) just as you're about to touch down so you can see exactly when you're about to make contact. At this point pull up ever so gently for as soft a touchdown as possible.

It hasn't been for too long now I've been able to say I can land consistantly with a cockpit view. This is how I practiced.

jayhall0315
06-18-2008, 12:49 PM
I could go into some long winded crap with all kinds of advice but here it is in the short version:

Find the stall speed of the aircraft you are trying to land (say 110 kph for the A6M2 Zero of 1940), now approach the field at about 1.5X this (about 160 kph), make sure that as you line up you pull up (called the 'flare') in the last seconds (with cockpit on, you should now not be able to see the runway at all) for a three point touchdown, now ever so slowly glide her down and then roll out. After about 2 seconds or so, you can begin to apply wheel brakes gently to further slow down.

And thats all you have to do, but easier said than done.

Jay

ParrotPatrol
06-18-2008, 12:50 PM
I flare early and often. When I hit the runway I flare again. Is my front gear or rear gear supposed to hit the pavement first?


I didn't shoot them down, I WINGED them. I am playing with all realism settings that matter on except CEM, because I don't think I can be expected to mess with fuel mixture when I can barely land the plane.

jayhall0315
06-18-2008, 12:52 PM
the front gear and tailwheel should all touch the tarmac at the same time. That is the point of the flare.

Xiolablu3
06-18-2008, 12:58 PM
Mate you may as well put CEM on too as it really makes little difference. 99% of the planes have auto mixture anyway, and those that need it fiddling with you will notice black smoke coming out of your plane at around 3000m so you just change it then.

Trust me when I say it hardly has any effect on difficulty settings, I never use Prop pitch, anything to do with CEM at all unless I am forced too, which is so very very rarely.



As for landing, try a docile plane like the Spitfire, Zero or Bf109 and try and come in at about 200kph with the wheels and flaps fully down. Throttle fully off as you are about 20-30m off the ground so you drop to 180kph as you land. Your plane needs to be pointing slightly above the horizon with its nose, but will be dropping becasue you have the power fully off.

You can use a bit of power if you are falling too fast in order to slow your decent. Becasue your nose is pointing above the horizon, it will simply slow your decent, and not make you come in fast.

It doesnt really matter whether your tail or front wheels hit the ground first. Just make sure your plane is pointed slightly 'up', so that you can control your rate of descent with your throttle, by how your plane is 'falling' out of the sky.

Its harder to explain without a picture but I hope you understand what I mean. As you are about to touch down the nose should be above the horizon and the plane should be 'falling', through lack of engine power.

ParrotPatrol
06-18-2008, 01:01 PM
I've been flying a BF109. Just now I managed to get on the ground without the wheels collapsing, but when I hit the brakes to slow down I flipped head over heels.

neural_dream
06-18-2008, 01:08 PM
You break the wheels because you land with too much downward vertical speed. That's because you have 0% throttle and the plane falls like a brick. The key is to approach the runway with constant speed 200km/h at about 15-40% throttle. Try to keep it at 200km/h for the last 1 min. It will drop to 160-180 when you flare.

scaredycat1
06-18-2008, 01:09 PM
Hi ParrotPatrol, Ive been flying this sim since it came out and I still suck at landing (probly cause i get shot down more than i land).
But what helps me is to start my aproach a long way out, get slow, gear down, rad full open, full flaps, prop pitch 100%, trim nose high and try to keep a shallow sink rate and a gentile flare at the end of the strip.

Im sure youll lots of better advise from other folks here. Just practice and have fun with it.

And Welcome to Sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

blairgowrie
06-18-2008, 01:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
You break the wheels because you land with too much downward vertical speed. That's because you have 0% throttle and the plane falls like a brick. The key is to approach the runway with constant speed 200km/h at about 15-40% throttle. Try to keep it at 200km/h for the last 1 min. It will drop to 160-180 when you flare. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Xiolablu3
06-18-2008, 01:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ParrotPatrol:
I've been flying a BF109. Just now I managed to get on the ground without the wheels collapsing, but when I hit the brakes to slow down I flipped head over heels. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hold the brakes for a couple of secs ,then let go, dont just hold the button down or you will flip.

Alternatively keep tapping the break button.

ParrotPatrol
06-18-2008, 01:18 PM
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1Z2EUA10

Here is a track of what I've been doing. I managed to get all the wheels on the ground this time, however.

bun-bun195333
06-18-2008, 01:37 PM
What timezone are you in? If you're in the US or Canuckistan I could give you some help online. PM me if you're interested.

GIAP.Shura
06-18-2008, 01:40 PM
Mix this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD5WkusBMQ0) with a lot of practice and a dollop of good humour.

Have fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ParrotPatrol
06-18-2008, 01:51 PM
I would take you up on that offer but my internet is so bad that I simply can't play this game online.

gizmo60
06-18-2008, 02:09 PM
Try the 'Straight from the Farm' training missions in the link below.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/8911062445

They are very good and will teach you all the basics that you need.

ParrotPatrol
06-18-2008, 03:36 PM
Too late gizmo. I have landing pretty much figured out. I landed a few times and I figure if my landing gear collapses 50% of the time, as long as I don't explode I will be fine.

Scored my first kill. Biplane, but it still counts. His tailgunner managed to shoot my pilot though, had to make an crash landing.

LovroSL
06-18-2008, 03:43 PM
making a threepoint landing is very hard, and the fact that you are busting your gear means that you are comming down too fast. Flaring doesnt do much if you are falling like a brick.

for starters you can try the "fly landing"
come in at 200kmh and fly your plane about 0.5m of the runway and than slowly cut throtle until you gently tuch down. Maybe you will run out of airstrip but with this practice you will learn what your plane does at certain speeds and learn control bouncing. Dont rush things with flares and "stallriding", just take it easy.

When you perfect this you will start to do it at lower speeds (bouncing stops), before the runway and add some angle= a true landing
+ use externals to see where your undercariage is. And remember if you need altitude use THROTTLE and if you need speed push STICK forward not the other way around

VW-IceFire
06-18-2008, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ParrotPatrol:
Too late gizmo. I have landing pretty much figured out. I landed a few times and I figure if my landing gear collapses 50% of the time, as long as I don't explode I will be fine.

Scored my first kill. Biplane, but it still counts. His tailgunner managed to shoot my pilot though, had to make an crash landing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're doing well. Keep it up! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sounds like you're still coming in too fast and then trying to bleed off all of the speed at the last minute and then you cut the throttle and drop out of the sky. I usually cut throttle, then circle and kill some speed, then increase throttle to something between 20 and 50 percent and slowly come in on the last little stretch like that keeping my speed around 200kph (indicated) until the gears hit the ground gently...then roll off and then pump the breaks on and off until I'm at a stop.

Best to pull back just a little bit as the gears are touching down to get the plane settling properly.

Other than that...some practice and you'll be golden http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lurch1962
06-18-2008, 04:56 PM
To get a better feel of how your plane is moving as you approach touchdown, try this...

Toggle the "Cockpit On/Off" key until you have the one which has just the gun sight reticle AND the velocity vector indicator (VVI) are visible.

The VVI is a small circle which shows the actual direction your plane is headed at any given moment. As you maneuver it will bob around the gun sight reticle, indicating that the plane is no longer moving in the direction it's pointing.

As you approach the strip, you should try to keep the VVI more-or-less "planted" on the near end of the runway. Then you'll essentially be following the glide slope, assuming you're not coming in "hot" at a high-speed, shallow angle, or wallowing near stall and therefore falling too steeply.

Anyway, try it out... you'll quickly get the feel for the thing, which when you begin carrier landings will *really* help out in the early stages. I don't recommend using this "crutch" or "cheat" for too long; just until you develop the right feel for the correct attitude the plane should be in.

Happy landings!

P.S. No WWII A/C ever had such a VVI as we have here. It was added with the introduction of Pacific Fighters (I believe) to help folks with the rather harder carrier landings.

Zeus-cat
06-18-2008, 07:16 PM
Go ahead and get my training campaign "Straight From the Farm" as gizmo suggested. It will start you off with takeoffs and then move to landings and then move you to carriers for takeoffs and landings.

The missions are VERY quick to play, most are several minutes in length. The briefings will teach you a lot about takeoffs and landings.

WeedEater9p
06-18-2008, 07:35 PM
You know what?
Fly the Hurricane, it just wants to fly. It's practically the best plane you could practice regular flying in. Besides, the gauges are in English! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ritter_Cuda
06-18-2008, 07:40 PM
two thing
1) dont try to land. fly low and slow over the runway and let the plane settle on the tarmac.
most new pilot try to "land" on the edge and break the gear.
2) check out this school you will learn all the basics the flying
www.joint-ops.com (http://www.joint-ops.com)
Cuda

DKoor
06-19-2008, 01:20 AM
Planes are different.
Have different handling/stall chars, therefore some are easier some harder to land.

Cure:
Stick to your favorite plane and practice.
Best way to learn.

Key is;
-spot your home runway
-make sure you have a nice separation from it
-align (line) your aircraft on runway-you still must have a lot of separation
-throttle 0%, dive to 40-50m altitude, you still must have decent separation
-watch cockpit off speed gauge, it must show speed lower than 400kph and falling
-deploy full flaps and gears down, after speed drops to around 250kph put throttle in 40% position
-in this moment you should have at least 20 seconds before you reach runway (for safe landing)
-at moment you reach runway;
...........chop throttle to 0%
...........your speed MUST BE below 200kph (some more some less, depending on the type)
...........your altitude must be around 10m
...........allow your plane to "sink in", you should actually try to pull your stick slightly up!


If you do it right, you'll make a nice 3-point landing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif .

ParrotPatrol
06-19-2008, 11:24 AM
Question about trim...
German planes, have no trim, correct?
Then how the hell am I supposed to keep my BF-109 from fishtailing all over the freaking sky?

And another thing, my joystick seems to lose its calibration every time I restart my computer. I can't tell whether my flying is my fault or my damned joystick's. I don't suppose there is some sort of utility or something out there, is there?

FoolTrottel
06-19-2008, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And another thing, my joystick seems to lose its calibration every time I restart my computer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What stick is it? It's probably self-calibrating, and the only thing you need to do before starting the game (or rather before starting a mission) is move the stick all directions all the way. (Kinda like telling it what its ranges are...)

As for trim-less planes: the 109 will fly w/o needing rudder trim when at 60-70% Power...
For all other situations: Adjust the proper control... like a tad of rudder...

TheFamilyMan
06-19-2008, 05:05 PM
Here an excerise that really helped me a lot to land successfully in any plane: learn it's stall speed with landing flaps on. Once you know this speed, try to alway land at about +10 or less of that. To figure out the stall speed, take the plane up to 1500km and slow it down to about 200kpm. Put on landing flaps and drop the throttle really low. Keep the nose up for as long as possible while continuing to slow down. The stall speed is when you can no longer keep the nose up. Try to fly just above this speed with your landing flaps and gear down to get the feel for it. Once you've mastered this, landing anywhere becomes a piece of cake, provided you can come in at this pre-stall speed. Enjoy. S!

ParrotPatrol
06-19-2008, 05:42 PM
It's a Saitek Cyborg.
So the BF-109 flies at LOWER speeds with auto trim? If I go above 70 I am asking for trouble?

FoolTrottel
06-19-2008, 06:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's a Saitek Cyborg. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then probably moving it all around before starting the game will suffice... it will be calibrated then...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So the BF-109 flies at LOWER speeds with auto trim? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No. But something like that.
They were pre-trimmed for cruise flight. (Rudder being offset a bit.)
In real life, that's what they did most of the time... fly at cruise speeds... cruising you know...

In full out climbing ,combat or landing or whatever special action, one had to work the pedals....

You are not asking for trouble, you are asking for pedals... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

mortoma
06-19-2008, 07:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jayhall0315:
the front gear and tailwheel should all touch the tarmac at the same time. That is the point of the flare. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not neccesarily, a three- point landing in some real life tail dragging aircraft is not always recommended. In some aircraft it's almost mandatory. But in most tail draggers you can land on the mains first or a three-pointer. In this sim you can just about land any aircraft either way. For a beginner you'd hardly expect them to learn a 3 point landing right away though. This takes considerably more skill to execute and takes some time to master.

TinyTim
06-20-2008, 05:26 AM
Have you tried any touch'n'gos so far? Maybe that would be the best start towards practicing a perfect landing...

DKoor
06-20-2008, 06:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So the BF-109 flies at LOWER speeds with auto trim? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No. But something like that.
They were pre-trimmed for cruise flight. (Rudder being offset a bit.)
In real life, that's what they did most of the time... fly at cruise speeds... cruising you know...

In full out climbing ,combat or landing or whatever special action, one had to work the pedals....

You are not asking for trouble, you are asking for pedals... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>+1 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

-----------

Trim is a nice thing one can fly at higher speed with lower throttle settings...

Ba5tard5word
06-20-2008, 06:49 PM
Landing is very tricky in this game, I probably played the game for about 3 weeks before I even attempted it and then it took me several days and probably 50 tries before I could land properly once. Now it feels really natural, though I still screw up now and then. Practice makes perfect, just keep trying and be patient.


Also just for training you might want to try landing with a plane that has tricycle gear such as the P-38 or P-39, you can land a bit rougher and unevenly (though not too rough) plus they don't flip over forward if you hit the ground too hard. Also you can brake really quickly with them and they stop on a dime, wheras a non-tricycle plane has to roll for quite a while braking on and off so it doesn't flip forward(BTW tricycle gear is where it has a wheel in the nose and two wheels under the wings)

A tricycle gear plane would be good because you still have to make sure you don't slam into the ground, but it's still more forgiving.