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AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2007, 09:28 AM
So you think XXX has changed from 4.07 to 4.08?

Well don't 'FEEL' bad!

In that it is a large club that your a member of!

In the past few days I heard a lot of chatter from sim pilots, be it in the chat room and/or comms.

As far as they are concerned everything has changed!

Be it FM, DM, Weapons, Graphics engine, etc!

If so Oleg would have had to toss out everything and re-write the whole game from scratch!

Sadly a lot of 'this' I have been hearing on my own sqd comms! Who up until now I thought most were pretty level headed! Or sure we allways had a few that get all caught up in the placebo effect of a new patch.. But now the whole sqd is swearing up and down that XXX has changed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif The good news is Leadspitter has never been happier! So there is a silver lining! But I digress! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Now we know that a total re-write in less than a month is not true let alone possible..

So what is it?

Mass hysteria?

I think so!

That and most sim pilots inability to look in the mirror and blame themselves for getting shot down or missing a shot!

Which brings us back to square one..

Got Track?

On that note Ill make a little wager with you all.. This thread will get a large 'VIEW" count and a very small 'REPLIES' count (minus the OT replies and/or weak attempts at humor)

Why?

Because I challenge anyone to step up to the plate and prove something has changed other than the things that Oleg mentioned in the read me! By proof I mean do a test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method) in version 4.07 and save the track, do the same test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method) in 4.08 and save the track and then send both tracks to me and I bet you I will prove to you something test engineers have know for decades! Humans make terrible recording devices and thus nothing should be based off of a 'FEELING'

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2007, 09:28 AM
So you think XXX has changed from 4.07 to 4.08?

Well don't 'FEEL' bad!

In that it is a large club that your a member of!

In the past few days I heard a lot of chatter from sim pilots, be it in the chat room and/or comms.

As far as they are concerned everything has changed!

Be it FM, DM, Weapons, Graphics engine, etc!

If so Oleg would have had to toss out everything and re-write the whole game from scratch!

Sadly a lot of 'this' I have been hearing on my own sqd comms! Who up until now I thought most were pretty level headed! Or sure we allways had a few that get all caught up in the placebo effect of a new patch.. But now the whole sqd is swearing up and down that XXX has changed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif The good news is Leadspitter has never been happier! So there is a silver lining! But I digress! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Now we know that a total re-write in less than a month is not true let alone possible..

So what is it?

Mass hysteria?

I think so!

That and most sim pilots inability to look in the mirror and blame themselves for getting shot down or missing a shot!

Which brings us back to square one..

Got Track?

On that note Ill make a little wager with you all.. This thread will get a large 'VIEW" count and a very small 'REPLIES' count (minus the OT replies and/or weak attempts at humor)

Why?

Because I challenge anyone to step up to the plate and prove something has changed other than the things that Oleg mentioned in the read me! By proof I mean do a test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method) in version 4.07 and save the track, do the same test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method) in 4.08 and save the track and then send both tracks to me and I bet you I will prove to you something test engineers have know for decades! Humans make terrible recording devices and thus nothing should be based off of a 'FEELING'

steve_v
02-10-2007, 09:43 AM
Maybe you should consider a more conservative avatar. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/The_Presz/hysteria.jpg

heywooood
02-10-2007, 09:47 AM
they're throw pillows.....aren't theyohmygod!

Pollack2006
02-10-2007, 09:59 AM
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0l0yx/IL2Flugbuch/Got%20Energy.jpg

msalama
02-10-2007, 10:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">very small 'REPLIES' count </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

replycount++

Well I haven't noticed anything special. Feels pretty much the same to me... no track however http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Ratsack
02-10-2007, 10:42 AM
No, no, no, no, no!! It's not that!!

It's this!!!


http://mysite.verizon.net/res0l0yx/IL2Flugbuch/Got%20Energy.jpg

How many times do I have to tell you!!??

Ratsack

JG4_Helofly
02-10-2007, 10:56 AM
Hey, guys. Your avatar far exceed the maximum allowed size http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Monty_Thrud
02-10-2007, 11:11 AM
Is it just me or are those things defying gravity? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

ploughman
02-10-2007, 11:40 AM
I'm not sure, I might need to study them more closely.

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2007, 11:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
very small 'REPLIES' count (minus the OT replies and/or weak attempts at humor) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
WOW!

Did I call that one or what!

I know these guys like the back of my hand!

SeaFireLIV
02-10-2007, 12:04 PM
Avatar looks ok to me, except it`s inverted!

I don`t see much of a change at all in 4.08 that I didn`t already see in 4.07...

ploughman
02-10-2007, 12:19 PM
Maybe Tagert's down under, if you know what I mean? Speaking of down under, nice to see we won a game of cricket, eh?

TopGunBkk
02-10-2007, 12:28 PM
i agree what changes some bull**** **** in some readme
HEY READ ME IDIOT ITS THE SAME
some planes sights are all messed up
its liek you half a sight yeah great update nab!
I go back to 4.07

boxmike
02-10-2007, 12:43 PM
Don't you see, Tagert's avatar is the clue: There's no gravity http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Rgds,

- box

joeap
02-10-2007, 12:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TopGunBkk:
i agree what changes some bull**** **** in some readme
HEY READ ME IDIOT ITS THE SAME
some planes sights are all messed up
its liek you half a sight yeah great update nab!
I go back to 4.07 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhh shift-F1

Or control-E

MEGILE
02-10-2007, 01:07 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

faustnik
02-10-2007, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
So you think XXX has changed from 4.07 to 4.08? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I think something in the global energy model was tweaked in 4.07.

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2007, 01:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
So you think XXX has changed from 4.07 to 4.08? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I think something in the global energy model was tweaked in 4.07. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If that were the case than it would be a simple mater to measure the changes.

In that if the change is big enough to 'visually' detect it than it will be more than big enough to measure the difference between 4.07 and 4.08 via DeviceLink.

So with that said..

Got Tracks?

Otherwise it is a theory based on a feeling, nothing more

Philipscdrw
02-10-2007, 01:42 PM
I have tracks where I'm flying over Scotland. Therefore 4.08 has changes!

XyZspineZyX
02-10-2007, 01:45 PM
WTF is this now? Some changes in XY and Z because of vapors megrims and guesswork

Have any of the pro test pilots around here ever even made up a test schedule so they can duplicate testing from version to version? Or is a spreadsheet too tough to handle? Ever bother to time climb tests with a stopwatch? No?

Most players don't even know how to land, let alone test!

Everything in the whole sim could be changed but all you have to present is "I think" and "I feel". So waht? You think something or feel something. It's easy to back up this stuff- test it. More than once. Try a test schedule for things a dozen times each, then throw away your best and worst results

If you don't bother to get more than two or three data points, I don't need to hear about your "testing". And the version switchers make it dead easy to duplicate those two tests between different versions

Do a dozen tests with each version, the same test exactly. Toss out your best and worst results. record the tracks. Average your results. Post them

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">That</span> is testing. Most players don't even know stall speed for their favorite plane with flaps and wheels down, but everyone is a pro test sim pilot when they want to show X Y and Z. Just test and provide the tracks! What's so hard

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2007, 01:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
I have tracks where I'm flying over Scotland. Therefore 4.08 has changes! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Logic like that will serve you well!

In Scotland!

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2007, 01:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
WTF is this now? Some changes in XY and Z because of vapors megrims and guesswork

Have any of the pro test pilots around here ever even made up a test schedule so they can duplicate testing from version to version? Or is a spreadsheet too tough to handle? Ever bother to time climb tests with a stopwatch? No?

Most players don't even know how to land, let alone test!

Everything in the whole sim could be changed but all you have to present is "I think" and "I feel". So waht? You think something or feel something. It's easy to back up this stuff- test it. More than once. Try a test schedule for things a dozen times each, then throw away your best and worst results

If you don't bother to get more than two or three data points, I don't need to hear about your "testing". And the version switchers make it dead easy to duplicate those two tests between different versions

Do a dozen tests with each version, the same test exactly. Toss out your best and worst results. record the tracks. Average your results. Post them

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">That</span> is testing. Most players don't even know stall speed for their favorite plane with flaps and wheels down, but everyone is a pro test sim pilot when they want to show X Y and Z. Just test and provide the tracks! What's so hard </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Thank God!

For a min there I was starting to think I was the only one that understood this!

Thank you BBB462cid!

For restoring my faith in man kind!

For a min there I was starting to feel like Luke Wilson in that movie IDIOCRACY! Where I have expected the next person to say "electrolytes.. its what planes want!" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
02-10-2007, 01:54 PM
Well, when I was "Chuck_Older" there were people who thought we were the same person, so don't be too surprised http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2007, 09:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
Well, when I was "Chuck_Older" there were people who thought we were the same person, so don't be too surprised http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Really?

People accused you of being me?

YOU POOR BASTAGE! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Where as if someone accused me of being you, I would take it as a complement!

bun-bun195333
02-10-2007, 09:10 PM
And you're gonna need a nickname, something like "Fuzzy Bunny".
Ah, I don't know...
Too late, Fuzzy

horseback
02-10-2007, 09:52 PM
Ahh, who has time to test? I just wanna play the game.

Sugar pills for everybody!!!

cheers

horseback

Badsight-
02-10-2007, 09:56 PM
undocumented changes are a part of this games history

BfHeFwMe
02-10-2007, 10:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
So you think XXX has changed from 4.07 to 4.08?

Well don't 'FEEL' bad!

In that it is a large club that your a member of!

In the past few days I heard a lot of chatter from sim pilots, be it in the chat room and/or comms.

As far as they are concerned everything has changed!

Be it FM, DM, Weapons, Graphics engine, etc!

If so Oleg would have had to toss out everything and re-write the whole game from scratch!

Sadly a lot of 'this' I have been hearing on my own sqd comms! Who up until now I thought most were pretty level headed! Or sure we allways had a few that get all caught up in the placebo effect of a new patch.. But now the whole sqd is swearing up and down that XXX has changed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif The good news is Leadspitter has never been happier! So there is a silver lining! But I digress! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Now we know that a total re-write in less than a month is not true let alone possible..

So what is it?

Mass hysteria?

I think so!

That and most sim pilots inability to look in the mirror and blame themselves for getting shot down or missing a shot!

Which brings us back to square one..

Got Track?

On that note Ill make a little wager with you all.. This thread will get a large 'VIEW" count and a very small 'REPLIES' count (minus the OT replies and/or weak attempts at humor)

Why?

Because I challenge anyone to step up to the plate and prove something has changed other than the things that Oleg mentioned in the read me! By proof I mean do a test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method) in version 4.07 and save the track, do the same test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method) in 4.08 and save the track and then send both tracks to me and I bet you I will prove to you something test engineers have know for decades! Humans make terrible recording devices and thus nothing should be based off of a 'FEELING' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My my, took a lot of feeling to post all that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

perthswimmer
02-10-2007, 10:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steve_v:
Maybe you should consider a more conservative avatar. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/The_Presz/hysteria.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>who do the twins belong to anyway? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2007, 10:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
undocumented changes are a part of this games history </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Note I never said there wasn't

My point is simple!

If 'all the things' changed that everyone 'FEEL' has changed it would have most likly require a total re-write of the code!

Very unlikely IMHO!

Along those same lines,

If 'anything' changed enough that it was visibly noticeable, it would be easy to measure to prove it.

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2007, 10:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
My my, took a lot of feeling to post all that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hardly

Ratsack
02-10-2007, 10:28 PM
Done.

http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=F...ostorder=asc&start=0

Now, why don't you go and take a little lie down.

Ratsack

AKA_TAGERT
02-10-2007, 10:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
Done.

http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=F...ostorder=asc&start=0
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>Still having trouble?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
Now, why don't you go and take a little lie down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You poor thing.. You better run along before you happy meal gets cold!

WWMaxGunz
02-10-2007, 11:27 PM
It's ****Final Patch Madness Month**** (or perhaps for only two...) here at the UBI Z00!

A great time to collect conflicting war stories all from guys that were there and knew absolutely.

There's even new strides in redefining the science of flight been made. Breakthrough expected
any time now, possibly more than a couple weeks. The 109's will be shown the best actual turn
fighter of the entire war barring of course the Zero, all on the basis of stories and speculation.

.

It's... it's... it's like magic! Wow!
It's ****Final Patch Madness Month**** (or perhaps only...) --- here at the UBI ZOO!

Ratsack
02-10-2007, 11:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
undocumented changes are a part of this games history </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Note I never said there wasn't

My point is simple!

If 'all the things' changed that everyone 'FEEL' has changed it would have most likly require a total re-write of the code!

Very unlikely IMHO!

Along those same lines,

If 'anything' changed enough that it was visibly noticeable, it would be easy to measure to prove it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hate to moisten your weeties an' all, but FatCat99 over at CWOS has, over the last few patches, carefully designed and conducted a series of tests to measure a range of flight parameters. As of 4.07, his tests were showing that there was a change in diving performance between 4.05 and 4.07.

I am in fully in favour of tested results as opposed to subjective impressions. Let's get that out of the way right now.

However, the tests show that there has indeed been some change. It's small, and it appears to be global (he hasn't tested all 200 odd flyables).

For details head over to CWOS and you can research the forum to see how the tests were devised and what the results were.

Those of you who give a fetid dingo's kidney can go and read the data and work out what it means for yourselves.

To summarise:

1. There's been a change: it has been demonsrated.

2. It is small.

3. It affects more than one type of plane.

4. It seems on the balance of probability that the change is global, but this is yet to be demonstrated. (I don't know of anybody who has tested all 200 flyables, so I'm not holding my breath.)

So, we're well past the stage where it matters what you 'think' is likely or unlikely, AKA_TAGERT.

Move along now. Nothing to see here.

Cheers,
Ratsack

msalama
02-11-2007, 12:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For a min there I was starting to think I was the only one that understood this! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not by a long shot. Having some experience in computers and engineering myself I've personally always understood what real testing is... which, BTW, is why you rarely see me whining about stuff, i.e. I happen to know what a s**tload of work it actually is to unambiguously prove something beyond any shadow of doubt as erroneous (or otherwise). And I'm a lazy sod meself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Another thing is that I usually fly bombers and ground attack AC only, and frankly speaking can't see anything (at least too badly) off with them. So why the h3ll should I whine?

And oh yeah, you mentioned "mass hysteria", too. Now be assured that some 99.9% of all this c**p is exactly that. But hey, what ELSE can you expect from a so-called "community" consisting - by the looks of it - mostly of mentally unstable old hags who just love their handbag warfare too much?

msalama
02-11-2007, 12:18 AM
...none of which, though, is to claim there're no legit complaints concerning this game. Sure there are those too...

AKA_TAGERT
02-11-2007, 07:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For a min there I was starting to think I was the only one that understood this! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not by a long shot. Having some experience in computers and engineering myself I've personally always understood what real testing is... which, BTW, is why you rarely see me whining about stuff, i.e. I happen to know what a s**tload of work it actually is to unambiguously prove something beyond any shadow of doubt as erroneous (or otherwise). And I'm a lazy sod meself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Another thing is that I usually fly bombers and ground attack AC only, and frankly speaking can't see anything (at least too badly) off with them. So why the h3ll should I whine?

And oh yeah, you mentioned "mass hysteria", too. Now be assured that some 99.9% of all this c**p is exactly that. But hey, what ELSE can you expect from a so-called "community" consisting - by the looks of it - mostly of mentally unstable old hags who just love their handbag warfare too much?

...none of which, though, is to claim there're no legit complaints concerning this game. Sure there are those too... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>AMEN Brother!
Agreed 100%

VaporBlast
02-11-2007, 08:07 AM
I've been there from the start with this game although I don't post much in the forums and all I can say is that with every patch, it's mostly the sames people that complains and when you ask them to prove their theory using the scientific method, they just can't do it or when they do, they shut up because their feelings were false and they wont publicly admit that they were wrong. It's been the same all those years and it will be the same when SOW:BOB will come out.
Stop complaining, start to enjoy the GAME.
Take care people.
(sorry for my English).

AKA_TAGERT
02-11-2007, 08:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VaporBlast:
I've been there from the start with this game although I don't post much in the forums and all I can say is that with every patch, it's mostly the sames people that complains and when you ask them to prove their theory using the scientific method, they just can't do it or when they do, they shut up because their feelings were false and they wont publicly admit that they were wrong. It's been the same all those years and it will be the same when SOW:BOB will come out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

AKA_TAGERT
02-11-2007, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
I hate to moisten your weeties an' all, but FatCat99 over at CWOS has, over the last few patches, carefully designed and conducted a series of tests to measure a range of flight parameters. As of 4.07, his tests were showing that there was a change in diving performance between 4.05 and 4.07. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So what part of the FIRST sentence in my FIST post in this thread did you not understand? i.e.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
So you think XXX has changed from 4.07 to 4.08? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Allow me to break it down for you..

4.07 to 4.08

NOT

4.05 to 4.07

SAVVY?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
I am in fully in favour of tested results as opposed to subjective impressions. Let's get that out of the way right now.

However, the tests show that there has indeed been some change. It's small, and it appears to be global (he hasn't tested all 200 odd flyables).

For details head over to CWOS and you can research the forum to see how the tests were devised and what the results were.

Those of you who give a fetid dingo's kidney can go and read the data and work out what it means for yourselves.

To summarise:

1. There's been a change: it has been demonsrated.

2. It is small.

3. It affects more than one type of plane.

4. It seems on the balance of probability that the change is global, but this is yet to be demonstrated. (I don't know of anybody who has tested all 200 flyables, so I'm not holding my breath.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have read his report, and I have yet to find any links to any track files in that report.

Nuff said?

Or should I post a link to the scientific method for you to brush up on?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
So, we're well past the stage where it matters what you 'think' is likely or unlikely, AKA_TAGERT.

Move along now. Nothing to see here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hardly!

There is something to see here.. See Ratsack get confused with the number system. With that low level problem, I hope to god that FatCat did not get any of your help in processing the data!

ViktorViktor
02-11-2007, 09:06 AM
What is this strange desire to stand on my head when reading a Tagert post ?

MEGILE
02-11-2007, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ViktorViktor:
What is this strange desire to stand on my head when reading a Tagert post ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

labyrinthitis?

VaporBlast
02-11-2007, 01:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ViktorViktor:
What is this strange desire to stand on my head when reading a Tagert post ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

labyrinthitis? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Bearcat99
02-11-2007, 02:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VaporBlast:
I've been there from the start with this game although I don't post much in the forums and all I can say is that with every patch, it's mostly the sames people that complains and when you ask them to prove their theory using the scientific method, they just can't do it or when they do, they shut up because their feelings were false and they wont publicly admit that they were wrong. It's been the same all those years and it will be the same when SOW:BOB will come out.
Stop complaining, start to enjoy the GAME.
Take care people.
(sorry for my English). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

WWMaxGunz
02-11-2007, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For a min there I was starting to think I was the only one that understood this! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not by a long shot. Having some experience in computers and engineering myself I've personally always understood what real testing is... which, BTW, is why you rarely see me whining about stuff, i.e. I happen to know what a s**tload of work it actually is to unambiguously prove something beyond any shadow of doubt as erroneous (or otherwise). And I'm a lazy sod meself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then you know how vital it can be to report accurately enough what the problem is? When Tiger Talon was able to show the ammo mix of the 151/20's would you say that was good enough? Because Oleg's Team thought so after looking and finding the mixup, they fixed it.

Some one small part of a program can be slightly changed and have many effects. Look at how much change has been attributed to change in handling.

Some people think it's the plane and lose and can't take it. Just learn the planes we have the way they are and use them the most efficiently you can. Forget what 'is supposed to be' (read:in your dreams) and fly each as it works best.

Maybe some people can learn new tactics. If I need 6 G's to pull lead on a target 300m away that has just pulled into his own 6 G turn then I have to be doing something wrong since done smoothly I only need 2-3 G's to make the shot. If I have my approach offset right then I can make the shot with 2 G's or less but it's a shorter duration shot -- np as it puts me on a hard to follow trail and still most of my speed. So why is the fascination with sustained turns?

Charos
02-11-2007, 03:46 PM
My focus is on what hasnt changed.

Icing does not maketh the cake but can maketh the pancake - should it get on your wings.

Monty_Thrud
02-11-2007, 03:49 PM
You have icing on pancakes? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

AKA_TAGERT
02-11-2007, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
You have icing on pancakes? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The only thing that would make that taste better is icing on pancakes and a side order of LStarosta's sig!

msalama
02-12-2007, 04:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...they fixed it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the evidence was apparently good enough if they fixed it, wasn't it?

Now I don't have the foggiest as regards the exact "cutoff limit" so to speak those guys employ when separating the wheat from the chaff, but if I was them I'd require - just as you yourself said - a clear and concise problem report w/ at least some unambiguous and tangible evidence supporting the case before investigating it any further. Because anything else is just asking for ulcer, isn't it?

And before someone stomps my a*se black 'n' blue for being a cynical old bastage http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif please let me reiterate my previous comment about there being legitimate complaints concerning this sim as well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

crazyivan1970
02-12-2007, 04:56 AM
Ratsack and TAGERT, either you two get a room somewhere in PM land or i`ll lock you in there myself. We`v been down this road before.

AKA_TAGERT
02-12-2007, 03:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Ratsack and TAGERT, either you two get a room somewhere in PM land or i`ll lock you in there myself. We`v been down this road before. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger Ivan, consider him ignored!