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View Full Version : OT: Photos of U-864 wreck, Norway (anyone here speak Norwegian?)



VikingGrandad
11-01-2005, 05:15 PM
I just read some interesting news from uboat.net (http://uboat.net/announce.html?story=52):

Take a look at these photographs (http://www.bt.no/miljo/article212064.ece) of the U-864 (http://uboat.net/boats/u864.htm) wreck. Looks like she met a nasty end - torpedoed and sunk by a British sub... underwater! (apparently this is the only time in history that one submarine sank another while both submerged). One of the photos shows the u-boat completely broken in half.

Would anyone here who can speak Norwegian mind translating the article into English? A quick summary would be great, or just the captions for the u-boat photographs. Thanks to anyone who can help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VikingGrandad
11-01-2005, 05:15 PM
I just read some interesting news from uboat.net (http://uboat.net/announce.html?story=52):

Take a look at these photographs (http://www.bt.no/miljo/article212064.ece) of the U-864 (http://uboat.net/boats/u864.htm) wreck. Looks like she met a nasty end - torpedoed and sunk by a British sub... underwater! (apparently this is the only time in history that one submarine sank another while both submerged). One of the photos shows the u-boat completely broken in half.

Would anyone here who can speak Norwegian mind translating the article into English? A quick summary would be great, or just the captions for the u-boat photographs. Thanks to anyone who can help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

IRONxMortlock
11-01-2005, 09:10 PM
And could someone also please translate the "beer machine" advertisement bellow? That thing looks great! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Ratek
11-01-2005, 10:29 PM
I'm Danish so I can translate it, but it really isn't worth it.

It goes on about what to do with the wreck since it is a considerable environmental hasard (they talk about raising it). And that is basically it.

First caption: "Spread: This picture shows the wreckage's placement."

Second: "Good Condition: This detailpicture from the U-boat's central section which got blown up by the torpedo from the English sub Venturer, shows that the steelconstructions are in relaticvely good condition."

Fourth: Ghostly: The sonar made this picture which shows how the aft sticks 15 meters up from the seafloor. The U-boat is split in two parts which lies ca. 40 meters apart. The fore lies flat while the aft sticks ups from the bottom.

I take it the other two aren't that interesting.

What "beer-machine" ad? Couldn't see any.

Celeon999
11-02-2005, 03:27 AM
Its true.

Norwegian has definitly a german touch. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If i read the article over and over again i can understand more and more things.

Can anyone confirm this ? :

bergensfirmaet = Bergungsfirma

ubaten = U-boot

arbeided = gearbeitet ?

den beste losningen = die beste L√¬∂sung

operasjon = Operation

skipsvrak = Schiffswrack

***medarbeider = Firmenmitarbeiter ?

politiske = politische

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">ub√¬•tens midtseksjon som ble sprengt av torpedoen fra den engelske ub√¬•ten "Venturer"
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


= die mittel Sektion des U-bootes wurde von einem Torpedo weggesprengt der von dem englischen U-boot "Venturer" abgefeuert wurde.

Right ?



Or these :



http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2562/ssnorwegen2ug.jpg


Means : Nordm√¬§nner ! K√¬§mpft f√ľr Norwegen !
Nordmen ! Fight for Norway !



But i have some problems with this one :

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4042/ssskibatalionnorwegen7ws.jpg


...des Nordens Grenze nach Osten... ?
(What does Til vakt ved mean ?)

SS-Skij√¬§gerbattallion Norwegen

...the borders of North to the east ?
SS-Skibatallion Norway

Amnio
11-02-2005, 03:52 AM
Have to agree with Ratek, the article isn't really that interesting except from the allready translated picturecaptions I suppose.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Norwegian has definitly a german touch.

If i read the article over and over again i can understand more and more things.

Can anyone confirm this ? : </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
bergensfirmaet = A company from Bergen.

So "I mellomtiden har bergensfirmaet AS Geoconsult [..]" could be translated to "In the meantime AS Geoconsult, a company from Bergen, [..]"

If it had been "bergingsfirmaet", then Bergungsfirma would've been correct.

ub√¬•ten = U-boot

arbeid = Arbeit = work

den beste l√¬łsningen = die beste L√¬∂sung

operasjon = Operation

skipsvrak = Schiffswrack = shipwreck

***medarbeider = Firmenmitarbeiter

politiske = politische

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
ub√¬•tens midtseksjon som ble sprengt av torpedoen fra den engelske ub√¬•ten "Venturer" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
= die mittel Sektion des U-bootes wurde von einem Torpedo weggesprengt der von dem englischen U-boot "Venturer" abgefeuert wurde.
Right ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>While my German is a bit rusty, it all seems to be correct.

So all in all you've done a good job. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Celeon999
11-02-2005, 03:56 AM
Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Maybe i should try to learn Norwegian. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What about the second picture ive posted above ?
What is the correct translation ?

Amnio
11-02-2005, 04:07 AM
Sorry didn't see that one. You kept editing your post with new content...

I believe "Til vakt ved" would directly translate to something along the lines of "Zu Wache bei", allthough someone might have to translate my pseudo-German to proper German. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In English I suppose one of theese could work:
Keep guard at
Keep watch at
Be on guard at

Celeon999
11-02-2005, 04:18 AM
Ahh! Now i understand http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Must be something like :

Bewacht (or Besch√ľtzt) des Nordens Ostgrenze !

Guard (or Protect) the east border of the north!


So its another call to volunteer.

froschman
11-02-2005, 10:51 AM
The text says:
Mount guard at the Nordic border against the east. - SS Ski Ranger battalion NORWAY

Celeon999
11-02-2005, 10:55 AM
Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

OblzS.jensen
11-02-2005, 12:27 PM
All wrong - it is the germans that speaks danish/norwegian, they just do'nt know.

Solar71
11-02-2005, 12:58 PM
All you white people look and sound the same to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VikingGrandad
11-02-2005, 02:09 PM
Ratek - thanks for the translation. Actually, it is useful because I thought the "Ghostly" picture ("SP√ňúKELSESAKTIG" ...must be where the English word 'spooky' comes from http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) was maybe a historic photo of the u-boat's stern rising out of the water as it exploded and sank! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

By the way, I had no idea that Danish is so similar to Norwegian. Am I right in saying that Swedish is more different? To me, if I see Swedish text it looks like a mixture of Norwegian and Finnish.

Celeon999 - I have seen this 'Nordmenn' poster before - very clever propaganda! And of course it's true. Both the German and Nordic people and their languages are historically linked as true 'Nordmenn', as are (more loosely) we English:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">From "A (Very) Brief History of the English Language" (http://www.wordorigins.org/histeng.htm):
English is in the Germanic group of languages. This group began as a common language in the Elbe river region about 3,000 years ago. Around the second century BC, this Common Germanic language split into three distinct sub-groups:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>East Germanic was spoken by peoples who migrated back to southeastern Europe. No East Germanic language is spoken today, and the only written East Germanic language that survives is Gothic.
<LI>North Germanic evolved into the modern Scandinavian languages of Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, and Icelandic (but not Finnish, which is related to Estonian and is not an Indo-European language).
<LI>West Germanic is the ancestor of modern German, Dutch, Flemish, Frisian, and English.
[/list] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

(OK we've gone way off-topic here, but it's my thread and I don't mind...)

I find both German and Norwegian languages interesting, partly because of the many influences I notice in English, and partly because I like their sound (maybe because much of my music collection is from Norway and some from Germany).

I would like to learn both languages one day. Sometimes I think German looks easy to learn, but then I see some of the extremely long words you guys use... I recently had to build a multi-lingual website, which included words like "Materialsicherheitsdatenbl√¬§tter" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Whatever that means! It looks like a whole sentence of words joined together! I would imagine that long, complicated words is one of the things which makes German hard for English people to learn.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif or maybe it won't be so hard now that Germans use so much English these days? (http://www.topics-mag.com/globalization/lang-denglish.htm)

Celeon999
11-02-2005, 03:01 PM
Interesting. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I didnt know that Germanic had so much influence in the english language.

Its hard to recognize similarities.

Materialsicherheitsdatenbl√¬§tter is a really long word thats true http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif thats because it consists of 4 different words and that really doesnt happen often. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And yes we really use a lot of english words. Not everybody of course , i try to use it as less as possible but its sometimes hard not to use this and this word especially when the topic is around computers.

But we also use many french words.

And english speaking countrys also use them and some german words too.

Kindergarden gar(t)en is a good example http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kinder = Children
Garten = Garden


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif My sister has even a french name http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jeanette

OblzS.jensen
11-02-2005, 03:33 PM
Hi "Viking". That long word of yours is not thar difficult - see - material-safety-data-sheet,
by the way, do your know that in scotland and east anglia you will find a lot of words going back to danish and norwegian from the time the vikings war ruling there.

Amnio
11-02-2005, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VikingGrandad:
By the way, I had no idea that Danish is so similar to Norwegian. Am I right in saying that Swedish is more different? To me, if I see Swedish text it looks like a mixture of Norwegian and Finnish. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
In general people from Norway, Denmark and Sweden can understand each others language quite well, since as you said, the languages are pretty similar. (This is especially true for understanding the written language.)

However when it comes to pronounciation of said written language there is quite some difference, but for most people it still remains comprehensible.

As for Swedish beeing more different: While it may look different, when spoken it is still very similiar to Norwegian. It would appear that Swedes (and Norwegians) in general have a slightly harder time understanding Danish (verbal) than they do each other.

W.Irving
11-02-2005, 04:10 PM
Danish/Norwegian/Swedish are closely related. They all evolved from old norse, which is quite similar to Icelandic. The two languages that have evolved furthest are Swedish, but Danish even more (and is starting to sound like sloppy German).

It's not so strange why English is so closely related to the Germanic languages. The British isles (sorry ”įire) were invaded several times by Germanic people. First by the vikings (mostly murderous Norse and Danes!), then by Frisians (from the Netherlands/northern Germany), and then by normans.
Funny thing, the normans (north men) are actually the ancestors of scandinavians, so the British isles were in fact invaded by scandinavians on more than once occasion.

A great number of British and Irish towns and cities today bear scandinavian names.

However, Finnish is not even a Germanic language, and is thus not remotely related to the scandinavian languages!

"Yes" in Finnish: Kyll√¬§!
...and in Swedish: Ja!

See the similarities? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Ratek
11-02-2005, 06:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Amnio:
As for Swedish beeing more different: While it may look different, when spoken it is still very similiar to Norwegian. It would appear that Swedes (and Norwegians) in general have a slightly harder time understanding Danish (verbal) than they do each other. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is only because Danish is spoken at a much higher rate than either Swedish or Norwegian. And our regional dialects are very strong (though they are about to vanish), even I have a hard time understanding a few of them. In fact I find Nynorsk to be easier to understand than what a fisherman from Hirtshals speaks (it has been claimed that such a fisherman can actually speak with English fishermen from the east coast with little difficulty and no use of english).

Norwegian as it is now is basically an evolved Danish (sorry my norwegian friends) as Norway was under Danish control for so long. THe Swedish control for the duration of the 1800s drew it away from Danish a good bit, but it is still closer related to Danish, though it is pronounced more like Swedish. I usually call it Danish spoken in Swedish for ease. And if you get a Swedish guy to speak Danish words in Swedish you will see my point.
But the most specific point is in grammar, there Norwegian is basically the same as Danish. A few differences of course.

Nynorsk (New-norwegian) is actually the 'true' Norwegian language (though not used as much) and it is quite a bit different from both Danish and Swedish, much closer to Icelandic (which makes sense). I have a hard time understanding it if it is not spoken slowly.

Icelandic it downright impossible to understand. I get about one in five to one in ten words of it. Written it is much easier to understand, though still hard. It is very close to the old Danish tounge (as the old Nordic language was known). The same can be said with Faeroe (spoken on the Faeroe Islands), it too has that old sound.

HelpfulParadox
01-23-2006, 07:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by W.Irving:
Danish/Norwegian/Swedish are closely related. They all evolved from old norse, which is quite similar to Icelandic. The two languages that have evolved furthest are Swedish, but Danish even more (and is starting to sound like sloppy German).

It's not so strange why English is so closely related to the Germanic languages. The British isles (sorry ”įire) were invaded several times by Germanic people. First by the vikings (mostly murderous Norse and Danes!), then by Frisians (from the Netherlands/northern Germany), and then by normans.
Funny thing, the normans (north men) are actually the ancestors of scandinavians, so the British isles were in fact invaded by scandinavians on more than once occasion.

A great number of British and Irish towns and cities today bear scandinavian names.

However, Finnish is not even a Germanic language, and is thus not remotely related to the scandinavian languages!

"Yes" in Finnish: Kyll√¬§!
...and in Swedish: Ja!

See the similarities? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the first germanic tribe invading england was the angle or anglian tribes and the saxons in 410 AD. Then the vikings arrived about 900 AD, for example, in 1015 there was a danish king on the english throne. In 1066 you have the battle at hastings and the start of the norman reign.

HelpfulParadox
01-23-2006, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratek:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Amnio:
As for Swedish beeing more different: While it may look different, when spoken it is still very similiar to Norwegian. It would appear that Swedes (and Norwegians) in general have a slightly harder time understanding Danish (verbal) than they do each other. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is only because Danish is spoken at a much higher rate than either Swedish or Norwegian. And our regional dialects are very strong (though they are about to vanish), even I have a hard time understanding a few of them. In fact I find Nynorsk to be easier to understand than what a fisherman from Hirtshals speaks (it has been claimed that such a fisherman can actually speak with English fishermen from the east coast with little difficulty and no use of english).

Norwegian as it is now is basically an evolved Danish (sorry my norwegian friends) as Norway was under Danish control for so long. THe Swedish control for the duration of the 1800s drew it away from Danish a good bit, but it is still closer related to Danish, though it is pronounced more like Swedish. I usually call it Danish spoken in Swedish for ease. And if you get a Swedish guy to speak Danish words in Swedish you will see my point.
But the most specific point is in grammar, there Norwegian is basically the same as Danish. A few differences of course.

Nynorsk (New-norwegian) is actually the 'true' Norwegian language (though not used as much) and it is quite a bit different from both Danish and Swedish, much closer to Icelandic (which makes sense). I have a hard time understanding it if it is not spoken slowly.

Icelandic it downright impossible to understand. I get about one in five to one in ten words of it. Written it is much easier to understand, though still hard. It is very close to the old Danish tounge (as the old Nordic language was known). The same can be said with Faeroe (spoken on the Faeroe Islands), it too has that old sound. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Norwegian is not evolved danish, this is complete rubbish. The difference between swedish and norwegian is almost equally large as norwegian and danish. Since norway was very culturally independent from the Danish (skagerrak also made a physical barrier, making communication irratic), only a small influence was made. The language which has influenced the "new" norwegian the most are the continental languages like german, english and (some) french. Ironic as english once was very influenced by nordic languages. But this all comes back to which cultures who are hegemonic at the time being. Denmark, for example, never had a vibrant enough culture to make a large impact on norwegian. So that norwegian has evolved from danish is as wrong a statement you can make about the origin of languages.

janek73
01-25-2006, 11:14 PM
Because of these beautiful German songs that i downloaded for my SH3 gramophone i wanted to learn some german words so i bought book "basic german grammar" In chapter 3 they wrote that "Children have great fun trying to invent the longest compound noun possible. Can you recognize any of the component parts of this record breaking compound noun ?

der Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitanskajuten schlussel



it means- the cabin key of the captain of the Danube Steam Shipping Company

I wonder if it would be possible to replace some words and put words about u-boats warfare for creating more WW2 like compound, something about kapitanleutnant, enigma machine code,unterseeboote...
but this is a question for german speaking people :-)

Celeon999
01-26-2006, 06:26 AM
Unterseebootantriebsschraubenverbindungsvorrichtun g

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Undersea boat propulsion propellor connection device. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I dont know 100 % if its grammatical correct because no one makes use of such complex word monsters except the kids you mentioned. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Trydan
03-08-2006, 08:47 AM
Sorry for ressurecting (raising?) an old thread. I speak norwegian and, having read the article would concur that there is not a lot of important material, other than what has already been mentioned. However, in the last paragraph, it says that a large german TV crew were on the expedition, making a documentary on U-864. Does anyone know when this is due out? It certainly sounds interesting.