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Bearcat99
11-27-2004, 01:40 AM
I had some issues from my install of 3.02m. I had to uninstall and reinstall my whole shebang from scratch. I had just put in my config, user, paintschemes and mission folders and i was testing everything out before I put in the 3.01m patch.... I was running a QM I have with 2 flights of Jugs escorting 2 flights of B-17s against 12 bandits a mix of 109s and FWs. Anyway... I was trying to shake a 109 that ws on me like a cheap suit..... I dove for the deck and he followed me. I zoom climbed up into a cloud bank and there were now 2 on my tail as I entered the bank..... I kicked hard right, trimmed to the max and popped my flaps to get over the hump and begin my next dive before they could make it out of the clouds........which would have put them close enough to start firing again while I was low on E...... I kind of slipped off to the right as I began to drop back down... I looked behind me with a flyby view and saw them coming out of the bank... but they were following my previous course!!!!!!! I LOST THE AI IN THE CLOUD BANK!!!!!! I couldnt be lieve it. As I came back down I saw another 190 on one of my AI wings..... I dove right down on him blasting away till his left wing came off and he spiralled to the ground...... by then I dont know if it was the original bandits or others but I was running for my life again. I had quite a bit of speed on me and I made for the clouds again..... once I saw white behind me I rolled hard left and pulled back on the stick, then rolled into a dive through the clouds... balls to the wall till I almost blacked out. I looked behind me........ I lost them again!!! I couldnt believe it. I never noticed this before. I am wondering if it could be because i did the reinstall r what... but I lost the AI in the clouds......twice.
Im going to bed as I am beat and i am just too frickin thrilled that I got my setup running again. Tomorrow I will try ti install the patches but someone try this and see if it is just me. Let me knoiw if you did a clean install or if you installed over previous installs. I did not install any patches. I just went 1.0,2.0 and 3.0. .... and for the first time since I began flying in this series i was able to loose AI in the clouds........ they actually went off in the wrong direction..... twice.

FI.Snaphoo
11-27-2004, 01:56 AM
sweeeet.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

carguy_
11-27-2004, 01:58 AM
Neat.

SkyChimp
11-27-2004, 02:07 AM
I was flying the P-40B against an AI Ki-43. I ducked into a cloud, and the AI kept going straight through it. I was able to come around and get on his 6!!

woofiedog
11-27-2004, 02:09 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Good story Bear!

FI.Snaphoo
11-27-2004, 02:12 AM
I didn't think about this, but I wonder what would happen at the different exp levels of the AI pilots? Would Aces fly over the cloud cover in hopes of retaining the advantage? It's nice that the AI is more realistic, but is it in gradations of realism dependant on the opponent?

Not a whine, just curious as I'm away from my rig and unable to test...

SeaFireLIV
11-27-2004, 02:13 AM
Wow, bearcat, if this is true (and I have no reason to doubt you), that`s INCREDIBLE! Joy of joys. I`ll be able to D\L it tomorrow! It actually means I can really use cloud offline!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

JG301_nils
11-27-2004, 04:22 AM
It´s stuff like this that makes you starting up FB instead of doing something useful, hehe.
Great story Bear, well written http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-nils-

Friendly_flyer
11-27-2004, 04:31 AM
Great news for us off-line flyers! Thanks, I'll go check it at first opportunity.

Extreme_One
11-27-2004, 04:31 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Seriously???

I believe you Bear - I just can't cope with the news.

WOW!!!

Just d/loaded now so I'm racing to test this...

Bearcat99
11-27-2004, 07:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Extreme_One:
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Seriously???

I believe you Bear - I just can't cope with the news.

WOW!!!

Just d/loaded now so I'm racing to test this... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is...... I dont have any patches in yet!!!
I just re-installed 1.0,2.0 & 3.0 in a clean reinstall with no patches!! I am still at FB 3.0. It makes me wonder if perhaps there are features in the sim that we missed because of the complexity of all the patches through FB 1.0 to 3.0.. Im wondering if the real FB 3.0 is only now on my HD because I did a clean install. With my older version on top of all the previous ones...unless I am missing something or just didnt notice it... I couldnt loose AI in the clouds.

tsisqua
11-27-2004, 07:57 AM
Bearcat,
I am running 3.02bm . . .

Setup a quick mission. Spity vs 109G. I stayed right over a big puffy cloud . . . nice and slow. I let him get right on my 6, within firing range. I rolled inverted, dove for the cloud, and he followed me in. I pulled gently out of the dive, still in the cloud, then banked to the left. When I came out of the cloud, I hit F6 (Externals on for this test), and he was exiting the cloud with a heading about 60 degrees off from mine! I Lost Him!!!!!!

Please, everyone . . . try it and make sure that we aren't crazy!

I remember when you and I were waiting for CFS3. Remember how they told us that they would try to make this happen, and later said that it was impossible to make it work right?

If we aren't experiencing hysteria this would have to be the most exciting undocumented feature that has ever been implemented. Anyone that flies coops online will obviously enjoy this as well, so its not just for offline players.

Thanks, Berry
Tsisqua/Pteror/er . . . Larry
Jeez . . . I have too many names http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

3.JG51_BigBear
11-27-2004, 09:00 AM
Unfortunately I don't think this really is the case. When the AI are flying in pairs they tend to continue flying in a straight line anytime their opponent pulls an aggressive maneuver. I just took up a Hellcat and went against four ace level zeros. I had a significant amount of cloud cover over the map. I kept my energy up and managed to down two. Then I realized I was porking my own experiment soe I level off and throtled back to let the zeros get within range. I then did a wingover into a nearby cloud. Not only to the zeros fire at me, and score hits, while I was in the cloud but they also followed every maneuver I made in there. I don't know maybe it was something I did but I think this would have been a huge deal if it were really changed.

tsisqua
11-27-2004, 09:55 AM
Well, I haven't seen anything about this in the readme . . . I definitely haven't seen anything posted about it by Oleg. I am not pulling hard maneuvers, just smooth, yet random turns inside the cloud, and only setting it up with one opponent on ace level . . . and I am consistently losing the AI.

Of course, there's no telling what the crazy AI will do. This is, so far, totally inconclusive. I will keep testing. At least I am learning more about how to keep my eyes on my instruments while in zero vis. LOL

Tsisqua

3.JG51_BigBear
11-27-2004, 10:21 AM
I'd really like to see if this actaully works. How close are you allowing the AI to get before you enter the cloud. I've done this six times now and each time I don't enter the cloud until the AI is well within firing range. Each time they've followed me in, started firing, and scored hits. Three times I tried an abrupt manuever putting me on a heading at least ninety degrees from my original. Each time the zeros just stayed with me inside the cloud. The other three times I dove away which of course the zeros couldn't follow.

LEBillfish
11-27-2004, 10:23 AM
Well, since "PF" I have noticed AI wingmen are more aggressive setting up and really covering you quickly, rarely needing to call for help. Also, if you are shot down your wing doesn't suddenly turn and fly home even if not engaged they seem to actively hunt the enemy.

AI is also listening to commands better...and though I can't point to a moment for my self off hand, your cloud experience for some reason strikes me as "recently" correct though it may have been 2.04.

In any case, AI is getting better at what the I in AI stands for.

Korbelz
11-27-2004, 10:39 AM
i was flying a coop yesterday(was dead) and watch a guy fly...we went in to the clouds, we all told him it was pointless since it was a AI behind him, but sure enough the AI broke right about the same time.

Simjock
11-27-2004, 11:24 AM
Yeh, I lost a couple AI dogs too, Bear. I never read anything about AI liike this, so I never tried it. I stayed out of the clouds because they never did any good, and ussually messed up my orientation.

Friday I installed the 3.02m and messed up my files so I had to do a complete re-install of the merged version up to 3.01m

After reading your story I went and tried it with 2 P-39's against 4 Kezs.
I blasted the first Zek head on with a cannon burst and climbed up for a better look, while my AI wingman peeled off to get behind them.
As the Zekz out turned my wingman and began closeing on his six I rolled inverted, feathered the prop and started a dive on the remaining 3 Zeks.
I nicked one of them on my boom and zoom pass taking some preasure of my wingman, and picked up two on my six as I clibmed back up.

I got a little to slow at the top of my climb and the Zeks were gaining so I tried your trick, nosed over for a cloud and called my wingman for help.
I entered the top of the cloud at 1600 meters doing 460 kph. As my screen went white I started a blind lazy 8. I exited the cloud near the top at 1400. My wingman eased up beside me, and the Zeks were no were to found. F2 to have a look around....no Zeks.

Check the map, ...there they are, 3 kilometers away heading off in the wrong direction. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

sweet.

Mabey it's not all that hard for the programers to do. My pad lock disapears when The plane I'm tailing enters a cloud, why not the AI too?

3.JG51_BigBear
11-27-2004, 12:24 PM
I whish there was some sort of official word on this because the Ai has always done some fairly wonky stuff. Last night for example I was flying a FW 190A4 over Moscow against two ace level Yaks. I dove on one and sawed his wing off. As he was tumbling to the ground I was zoom climbing and admiring my work out the back of my canopy enjoying the show. Then I looked around for the other Yak who although had no chance of catching me in the dive was in my vacinity during the attack. I fully expected him to have taken advantage of the situation by getting on my six. Insted he was just gone. He hadn't been hit, all planes started with fifty percent fuel loads, and the combat had only been going on for about four minutes. I looked all over the place and checked my six a million times but he had just flown away, it was very starnge.

Platypus_1.JaVA
11-27-2004, 04:11 PM
After three years of this sim, Oleg still surprises us http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

chris455
11-27-2004, 04:48 PM
Bear, I tried it in a B-239 vs a Zero (ACE AI) and I'm sorry to say I don't see the effect. This AI pilot found me and shot at me in clouds AND through clouds, no difference.

But just thinkin' about the possibility did get my pulserate up a little! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

For me, at least the jury is still out on this one.
Chris

3.JG51_BigBear
11-27-2004, 04:50 PM
I posted a link to this thread in Oleg's Ready Room, the chances of him responding are slim to none but one never knows. There also might be more people willing to test this out. I don't think there was a change but I sincerly hope that I'm wrong.

willyvic
11-27-2004, 05:24 PM
Just spent about an hour checkin it out. The AI are still able to shoot ya down in cloud banks. And they still have the ability to match your moves within the cloud bank despite zero visibilty. On a couple of occasions the opponents did seem to "break off" momentarily after firing. But it appeared no different than any other time the AI decided it didn't want to pursue...for whatever reason. Me thinks this may be a case of new patchitis (my flights were with baseline PF, 3.01m and 3.02bm). And if the AI did lose its target aquisition during the reported encounters, my recent experience is they do not do it routinely enough to make diving into the fluffies a viable defense.

But there's always hope for the future.

No slam here, just one mans opinion.

WV

Cajun76
11-27-2004, 05:37 PM
The ones who seem to notice this the are the ones who have done complete reinstalls. I know SkyChimp recently reinstalled, ought to see if he or others can get the same effect.

3.JG51_BigBear
11-27-2004, 09:06 PM
I don't know why it would make any difference but in the interests of science I'm off to do a full reinstall.