PDA

View Full Version : They do nothing but steal my kills in campaign mode...



akumadarkhadou
08-31-2009, 10:21 PM
I hate my wingmen--or should I just call them rotten thieves... I know I am not the first to complain about this, but I am tired of playing campaign mode--which could be near perfection--because of my stupid kill thieving wingmen. I will be behind an enemy about to finish him off when all of a sudden my wingman gets an incredible boost of speed and whizzes past me and steals my kill; if this happened every once in awhile, fine, but every time I play I keep getting more and more agitated... Is there a way to stop this from happening every single bloody mission?

Edit: All I really desire is an "even" campaign: a campaign where your wingmen aren't all aces and your actions actually tip the balance of the campaign; I have heard this is the purpose of the dynamic campaigns, but to tell you the truth I could just sit on the runway and still win the campaign. Besides, my wingmen all have superhuman abilities...

akumadarkhadou
08-31-2009, 10:21 PM
I hate my wingmen--or should I just call them rotten thieves... I know I am not the first to complain about this, but I am tired of playing campaign mode--which could be near perfection--because of my stupid kill thieving wingmen. I will be behind an enemy about to finish him off when all of a sudden my wingman gets an incredible boost of speed and whizzes past me and steals my kill; if this happened every once in awhile, fine, but every time I play I keep getting more and more agitated... Is there a way to stop this from happening every single bloody mission?

Edit: All I really desire is an "even" campaign: a campaign where your wingmen aren't all aces and your actions actually tip the balance of the campaign; I have heard this is the purpose of the dynamic campaigns, but to tell you the truth I could just sit on the runway and still win the campaign. Besides, my wingmen all have superhuman abilities...

megalopsuche
09-01-2009, 05:17 AM
Which campaign are you flying? Some campaigns are easier than others.

Anyway, no one's going to look at your score, and getting mad at an AI pilot is kind of silly (though I do get mad at them when they collide with fellow flight members).

When I fly with humans (gosh that sounds weird) in historically based missions, I encourage my team mates to drop in and kill a bandit if they can do it quicker than I can, even if I was the one to wear down the bandit's energy state and set him up. The point is to kill the bandits as quickly as possible, not worry about letting someone finish their fight.

I hold the opposite view when it comes to arenas/dogfight servers.

buchtik
09-01-2009, 05:48 AM
If you command them, try to order them to return to base or to stay where they are.I know that the wingmen are stealing kills somethimes, but they are usually the first who dies.

horseback
09-01-2009, 08:14 AM
I've always maintained that the only thing a friendly ai Ace is good for is to steal your kills. I won't tolerate 'em any more, and here's how to rid yourself of them:

Enter the FMB, and select Load>Campaigns>your campaign nationality, and select the campaign you're playing, and if it's a Dgen or Ngen campaign, your last listed mission (this is the one most recently generated--which you haven't completed yet).

That is for dynamic campaigns-static campaigns are occasionally a bit more work to find your next mission, but you should know how many missions you've flown, so...

Once that's loaded, and you see the map, look for your landing field and select your flight and that of other friendlies in the vicinity.

Check each aircraft individually, and demote all the Aces. NO ONE should be higher than Veteran, and I recommend dropping the leader of your other flight to no more than Average (3s, 5s, and 7s are all thieving bastids--drop'em down to something less of a threat to your targets). If you're the flight leader, keep your wingman at Veteran.

If you are the flight leader, here are a few key radio commands:

1) Tab-1-1; tells your wingman 'Cover me'. You may have to repeat this once in a while if he sees something shiny by the side of the road.

2) Tab-2-8-2; this tells your flight to rejoin formation; unless Number 3 is already shooting at your intended victim, he will get back into formation and out of your way

3) Tab-3-9-3; this tells the second flight (Numbers 5-8) to go back to base. Very useful if there are only three or four enemy aircraft about, and you don't feel like sharing.

Finally, I find enemy bomber flights and demote them all to Rookie, because otherwise, that Veteran ai gunner will hit you in the engine or cockpit from 800m in a 90 degree deflection shot EVERY time. If I'm flying Red, Me-110s get the same treatment, because the rear gunners shooting accurately while the aircraft is rolling, diving and looping is just BS, and that aircraft's ai is just the worst in that regard.

cheers

horseback

vanya58
09-01-2009, 11:50 AM
If I see one closing in on a "bird" I've damaged, I'll fire a few rounds at the offending "friendly." Sure, I get yelled at, but it usually gets him out of the way.

akumadarkhadou
09-01-2009, 12:24 PM
Thank you, horseback. That is the exact kind of reply I was hoping for.

WTE_Galway
09-02-2009, 12:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by akumadarkhadou:
Thank you, horseback. That is the exact kind of reply I was hoping for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another trick is padlock an enemy other than your real target and tell them "attack my target".

Actually you will find after the first campaign or two once you get used to personal kill scores in the 100's it becomes more of a challenge to lead a high ranked squadron then just personally score high and you start to give your AI your kills to get them promoted and risk your @rse to stop them dieing.

Ghostleopard
09-02-2009, 08:45 PM
I'm surprised at the hate for AI wingmen.


I need them just to stay alive in my Hurricane.
The distraction away from me, or the odd "Cover me" saves my bacon frequently.

I am using the upgraded AI though, perhaps they're just Kill-hawks against the easier pilots.

DD_crash
09-03-2009, 08:22 AM
Get your own back, steal one of theirs! (I did http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

DKoor
09-03-2009, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DD_crash:
Get your own back, steal one of theirs! (I did http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah... I always order them to attack, then I close on their wingless burning victims and pout the last bullet.
Always easier that way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

And besides they do not steal they are stupid for something like that... what you need is to learn how they behave and avoid shooting at their intended target because after you make your pass they will put the last bullet in (they usually shoot with much more accuracy).

Ba5tard5word
09-03-2009, 11:56 AM
Yeah the AI is a bit unpredictable and can be annoying even when you are used to them. Yes they will often be useless for an entire mission, crying about being tailed, then at the end you'll finally get a good bead on an enemy and suddenly that useless wingman comes out of nowhere and fills up that enemy with lead and gloats about the kill.

Horseback's advice is pretty good. Like he says, if you don't want the wingmen you have control over to steal your kills or keep going after the enemy in general, then order them either to cover you or return to base. Eventually you'll get an idea of what the AI will do in different situations with and without instructions.

Also note that each plane has different AI, or so it seems to me from playing many many hours offline. La-5's or MiG-3's for example have rather lazy AI but Fw-190's and Bf-109's and LaGG-3's for example have really good AI. So if you fly with La-5 or MiG-3 wingmen they will probably spend a lot of time getting shot down or getting tailed, but if you fly with Fw-190 wingmen they will probably kill a lot of enemies.

I have created a few "Air Pirates" missions and generally I tried to set them up so you face slightly larger opposition than is on your force, so the player has to work to win the mission and can't sit back (willingly or unwillingly) while the AI wins the fight.

Also I'd recommend Icefire's Fw-190D campaign in his Stormclouds 2.0 campaign set, the player is definitely very important.

akumadarkhadou
09-03-2009, 03:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
Yeah the AI is a bit unpredictable and can be annoying even when you are used to them. Yes they will often be useless for an entire mission, crying about being tailed, then at the end you'll finally get a good bead on an enemy and suddenly that useless wingman comes out of nowhere and fills up that enemy with lead and gloats about the kill.

Horseback's advice is pretty good. Like he says, if you don't want the wingmen you have control over to steal your kills or keep going after the enemy in general, then order them either to cover you or return to base. Eventually you'll get an idea of what the AI will do in different situations with and without instructions.

Also note that each plane has different AI, or so it seems to me from playing many many hours offline. La-5's or MiG-3's for example have rather lazy AI but Fw-190's and Bf-109's and LaGG-3's for example have really good AI. So if you fly with La-5 or MiG-3 wingmen they will probably spend a lot of time getting shot down or getting tailed, but if you fly with Fw-190 wingmen they will probably kill a lot of enemies.

I have created a few "Air Pirates" missions and generally I tried to set them up so you face slightly larger opposition than is on your force, so the player has to work to win the mission and can't sit back (willingly or unwillingly) while the AI wins the fight.

Also I'd recommend Icefire's Fw-190D campaign in his Stormclouds 2.0 campaign set, the player is definitely very important. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perfect description of the enemy A.I.. Thank you for the information about the wingman commands, but I started off as the lowest rank(oberfeldwebel) so I couldn't--at the time--do much in terms of orders. However, I will probably fly as the flight lead from now on, so I don't have to pull my hair out anymore. And thank you for all the rest of your great advice, too.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I will download your campaign; I need some user created campaigns; And, I like the fact that you put emphasis on player-to-game interaction.

mortoma
09-03-2009, 04:11 PM
My simple solution is to just plant a few rounds in their kills as they're going down every now and then. If they steals yours you can steal theirs. And if they are trying to stealing my kill I will also stay on my kills tail and try to plant a few hits right after they do to try and steal it back, which works about half the time. Sucks when you're out of ammo though and you can only watch the thieves.

Ba5tard5word
09-03-2009, 05:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Perfect description of the enemy A.I.. Thank you for the information about the wingman commands, but I started off as the lowest rank(oberfeldwebel) so I couldn't--at the time--do much in terms of orders. However, I will probably fly as the flight lead from now on, so I don't have to pull my hair out anymore. And thank you for all the rest of your great advice, too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I would really advise that you fly as the lead pilot in general. Flying as a grunt can be frustrating plus the missions have to be set up so the AI planes that lead your flight do exactly what they are supposed to without getting sidetracked.

Also you need to know how to control secondary flights...like if you are set to the leader of flight one in a group, then flight 2 through 4 in the group will be assigned to you and you can give them orders. HOWEVER, giving orders to the secondary flights (2-4 or whatever flights you have control over that are a lower number than your flight) is a bit different. The planes in your own flight will, by default, follow you around. If they see enemy planes they will attack them without being ordered to (but you can order them to regroup and cover you and they'll stick with you) and if there are no enemies around they will fly behind you in formation unless they run out of ammo or are at their last waypoint before landing, then they will return to base and not respond to your orders.

The secondary flights are trickier, more erratic, and can be annoying. If you don't give them orders to regroup on your and cover you at the start of the mission, or if the person who made the mission set the secondary flight far away from your flight, they won't respond to your orders (even if you tell them to) and will just fly along their waypoints no matter what. This is really frustrating. At the beginning of a mission you should order them to regroup on you then to cover you, and they should fly along with you. But eventually for no apparent reason they will probably leave you behind and just start flying on their set waypoints and not regroup on you if you tell them to. I'm not sure if it's because they run out of ammo--this can be a cause but sometimes if there's not much action in a mission this seems like an unlikely cause.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I will download your campaign; I need some user created campaigns </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Send me a PM if you need help getting my campaigns up and running. "The Pirate Menace" is the one I am proudest of plus I designed it to be played with limited ammo and other advanced difficulty settings on. My others are ok but I put in too many enemies to be taken on with limited ammo settings.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My simple solution is to just plant a few rounds in their kills as they're going down every now and then. If they steals yours you can steal theirs. And if they are trying to stealing my kill I will also stay on my kills tail and try to plant a few hits right after they do to try and steal it back, which works about half the time. Sucks when you're out of ammo though and you can only watch the thieves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

XD you know what you're right, I've noticed this recently. If one of your wingmen (or any other plane on your side) shoots up an enemy and sets it on fire, if you shoot that enemy plane with just one round before it crashes/explodes/the pilot bails out, then you get credited with the kill sometimes. Not as satisfying though. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

akumadarkhadou
09-03-2009, 07:57 PM
Thank you very much Ba5tard5word. I will work on getting the other flights to do SOMETHING before leaving me and my flight. I downloaded your campaign and installed with no difficultyhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I haven't played it yet, though, but rest assured I will let you know how it's going for me.

This is truly an exceptional game. After looking for a flight sim that seemed less scripted I was lucky enough to find this. Too bad they don't really make flight sims anymore like they used to... USAF, ah that was a great game. What baffles me though is that this game is so awesome, yet there are some minor things in it that haven't been changed that could make the game EVEN MORE legendary: AI teammates taking off quicker than you which apparently Oleg himself admitted to. There is an insane amount of kill stealing, yet advice has helped me with this. Some of the campaigns seem...pointless.
That's all I can say that's even somewhat negative about this excellent game. In my ideal game things would be so very random. It would be cool if you flew over the enemy airfield and they scramble all their aircraft against you. Imagine there being such thing as a rival pilot. Imagine there being realistic stats on the pilots: if one is shot down he is more cautious or something.

Zeus-cat
09-03-2009, 08:25 PM
akumadarkhadou,

I recommend you play some of the user-made campaigns. In my opinion they are far better than the ones that come with the game. As you said, some of the missions are pointless in these campaigns.

Some of the campaigns I have enjoyed are Castaways by Dubbo, Cactus Diary by bird_brain, Against Overwhelming Odds, and even some of my stuff.

Triggers may be added to the game at some point which would allow for aircraft to scramble if you flew over an enemy base.

horseback
09-03-2009, 08:49 PM
About the ai taking off and flying faster than you can, the Official Line is that the ai planes have the same Flight Model (FM) as the corresponding flyable the Player operates, but they do not have to consider overheating, G-limitations (in the sense that they don't have their control surfaces fly off if they exceed their maximum dive speed), or the need to trim or operate their prop pitch just so. The ai fly flawlessly, that is, they are projected as flying flawlessly--remember, what you're watching is a collection of pixels pretending to be an airplane (my guess is that it takes less computing power if they fly perfectly). They also enjoy a Godlike situational awareness...

It simply takes a while for the player to develop the familiarity with the aircraft to fly it at max efficiency; as you get the hang of trimming the aircraft and figure out how to climb at the best combination of throttle and climb angle, the ai will leave you behind less often, and for not as long.

You can also diddle a bit with certain files to establish a lower 'cruise speed' for the mission generator to work with.

Considering that the original game was developed about 8 years ago, what we have is pretty spectacular.

cheers

horseback

megalopsuche
09-04-2009, 06:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
About the ai taking off and flying faster than you can, the Official Line is that the ai planes have the same Flight Model (FM) as the corresponding flyable the Player operates, but they do not have to consider overheating, G-limitations (in the sense that they don't have their control surfaces fly off if they exceed their maximum dive speed), or the need to trim or operate their prop pitch just so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the 109, I've had rads closed, 110% manifold, and been passed by AI wingman who climb from my low 6 and pass me with their rads open. I have rudder pedals so keeping the ball centered is SoP for me.

I think the "official line" is a big pile of... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stalkervision
09-04-2009, 07:07 AM
Has oleg ever explain this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AndyJWest
09-04-2009, 07:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
Has oleg ever explain this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If he did, would we understand him?

stalkervision
09-04-2009, 08:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AndyJWest:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
Has oleg ever explain this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If he did, would we understand him? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well no. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

horseback
09-04-2009, 08:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
In the 109, I've had rads closed, 110% manifold, and been passed by AI wingman who climb from my low 6 and pass me with their rads open. I have rudder pedals so keeping the ball centered is SoP for me.

I think the "official line" is a big pile of... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It happens to me as well; I've always assumed that they just get the prop pitch exactly right too, or the temptation to put a few rounds into good ol' Number Three might have overcome me a time or ten. While having your ball centered is a good thing, they also get the elevator trim just right too, and we have no indicator to tell us if we got THAT right...

Remember, the ai have insta-trim, no trim delay, and it is always perfect; take a ride in the backseat of an ai flown Me-110 or Il-2, and note that they never get that 'bump' when they cross over a river.

THAT is why it is so easy for humans and ai gunners on an ai-piloted aircraft to hit attacking fighters.

It's a limitation in the programming due to the game engine. All the stuff going on at the same time in this game sucks up a lot of computing power. Shortcuts have to be taken, and some of them are in the ai routines.

I don't think of it as a consious 'cheat' so much as it was the best that they could do 8-10 years ago.

cheers

horseback

Ba5tard5word
09-04-2009, 10:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Some of the campaigns seem...pointless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you playing the campaigns that came with the game? Yeah I would avoid those, they are made ok but are boring and repetitive and sometimes don't make much sense in terms of mission goals. The user-made ones can have a few flaws (depending on who made them) but generally they are well made and I think have more of a focus on fun and intensity.

akumadarkhadou
09-04-2009, 06:55 PM
Yeah, I was playing the ones that came with the game. I will visit mission4today and look(I'm told it's a great site).