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View Full Version : Oleg: a very simple terrain addition (already done, really)



Tater-SW-
08-23-2005, 11:07 PM
The large forest objects that the game has built into maps. Make a single new object for FMB that is an irregular shape of that "stacked polygon" forest, perhaps about the size of a large parking area at an airfield.

This would allow mission builders to make coasts, etc. look more like jungle without having to place many hundreds of tree objects that eat FR. VERY useful, and you can pick a shape of this off a map already made and turn it into "Object."

tater

Tater-SW-
08-23-2005, 11:07 PM
The large forest objects that the game has built into maps. Make a single new object for FMB that is an irregular shape of that "stacked polygon" forest, perhaps about the size of a large parking area at an airfield.

This would allow mission builders to make coasts, etc. look more like jungle without having to place many hundreds of tree objects that eat FR. VERY useful, and you can pick a shape of this off a map already made and turn it into "Object."

tater

LEXX_Luthor
08-23-2005, 11:38 PM
It won't work. Try that with a large building shape object or Test Runway, and the building/runway sticks out of hills. Large shapes of flat Forest would vanish under terrain or float over terrain, or both, depending on location of terrain elevation and placement of Forest pieces.

For 100% flat maps, it would work well. In fact, I would prefer to make my own Eastern Front maps using large (1000km) blank flat "dogfight" maps and add flat Forests and Rivers -- something to navigate with. Then, we could make our own continuous Easter Front maps covering 1000km or more, with only the Building Objects we desire, and offer them for download for Offline campaigns (similar to StrikeFighters map/campaign system).

I hope Oleg's next sim uses a terrain engine that allows FMB placement of portions of Forest, Rivers, etc... ie... we can modify maps.

But then, that would permit the Online Map Exploit, where our competitive Online players load blank white "snow" maps to see targets better, allowing enhanced internet Brownie Point scores. With regretful apologies to the 95% Offline customers, we cannot allow this. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

lowfighter
08-24-2005, 02:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
It won't work. Try that with a large building shape object or Test Runway, and the building/runway sticks out of hills. Large shapes of flat Forest would vanish under terrain or float over terrain, or both, depending on location of terrain elevation and placement of Forest pieces.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Solution: make this object smaller, I don't care placing thousands of them. Moreover make the object assume the 'average' slope of the terain. By the way do you know that there exist two objects which do that already? It's one of the fences and one of the concrete dockyard blocks, I was quite trilled when I discovered it.

A bigger issue is though the visibility distance, they should be seen from much greater distance than normal objects (even the biggest) are.

LEXX_Luthor
08-24-2005, 02:50 AM
Hey I didn't know we had Objects that conformed to terrain. Sweet.

But we need very LARGE Forest blocks and shapes to place on flat blank 1000km "dogfight" maps. Then we could make our own maps of Eastern Front forest regions -- and with visibility to 30km to match the Perfect Mode horizon. Good point you made about visibility distance. We need to be able to raise visibility distance of Objects (and Smoke and Fire) at least for Offline use.

Oleg_Maddox
08-24-2005, 03:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
The large forest objects that the game has built into maps. Make a single new object for FMB that is an irregular shape of that "stacked polygon" forest, perhaps about the size of a large parking area at an airfield.

This would allow mission builders to make coasts, etc. look more like jungle without having to place many hundreds of tree objects that eat FR. VERY useful, and you can pick a shape of this off a map already made and turn it into "Object."

tater </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I take ithis for the BoB as some additional feature, if it will be possible.

lowfighter
08-24-2005, 07:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:


But we need very LARGE Forest blocks and shapes to place on flat blank 1000km "dogfight" maps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Solution: a couple of them with diferent sizes. The big ones for Lexx-land and the small ones for covering unlevel landscape http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Tater-SW-
08-24-2005, 09:07 AM
Yeah, I asked for just one as "salesmanship." I really want a bunch http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Actually, the shape is important, too. Make one side convex, the other concave, one side wavy, and one side kind of straight. You can then rotate 2+ and overlap to get different shapes.

tater

FI.Spitsfire
08-24-2005, 12:52 PM
Nice one oleg, but one question, as Lexx said navigate by them... made me think, there not going to be on the mini map, is there any way to add them on? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Tater-SW-
08-24-2005, 01:04 PM
I wasn't thinking at map-level of detail I guess. I want them for dispersals, and jungle around Henderson on Guadalcanal, etc. Looks like that ain't gonna happen, though.

tater

LEXX_Luthor
08-24-2005, 01:23 PM
Spits, you should print out paper maps and try navigating with them. Its a whole new world of flight simming, navigating with paper map.

Do this by loading FMB map and hit PrintScreen. This creates a file called grab0000.tga that you can load into a photo~paint program and print it out. In the photo~paint you can modify the map, lighten/darken it, change some colours, try to cover up some text labels, etc...

fuser59
08-25-2005, 06:15 PM
I have FS Architec for my Flight Simulator 9, and with it you can build anything and place it into the senery of Flight Simulator.

Once I mastered the ability of placing my objects, I too noticed a very large problem with flatting of the surrounding terrains.

I think, to a certain extent, that this is one of the reasons that objects placed in the FMB of IL2 cannot be "Pushed" down into the surrounding terrain to mesh well with the other. You allways seem to have a high side "Floats" and a side that "touches" the other surrounding scenery.

Another issue: Stackable objects (Vehicles & Equipment on Carriers for example), and Objects that can be placed wherever you put them (x,y, and z coordinances) "they did this with the smoke and lights in the latest patches" will greatly enhance the way mission maps could be designed.

Hopefully, these issues will be solved soon, so that Mission builders and/or senery creators will not be limited to flat surfaces on which to place or build seneries. There need to be runways for example that ocasionally have dips and rises on them to be more realistic.

I hope Oleg and his design crew can address this in the future for BOB. He just might do so, after all, he is truely the best Combat Flight Simulator creator of all time, and if anyone can do it... I'm sure he will be the one.

I have been watching with keen interest those experimental airfields, and how they are trying to mesh them into the surrounding senery without crashing your plane when running off of them. They may be getting close to figuring it out.

The ability to do this will be controlled by the limitations of the game engine architecture, be sure!

p1ngu666
08-25-2005, 07:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FI.Spitsfire:
Nice one oleg, but one question, as Lexx said navigate by them... made me think, there not going to be on the mini map, is there any way to add them on? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it shouldnt be too hard to render the land from very high, and make a map from that.

for full real nuts there could be gaps for no reason, and white patches labeled "cloud"

early war u may find lots wrong, and when we go eastern front the german fliers will swear at there maps alot for being wrong http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Tater-SW-
08-26-2005, 11:14 AM
Here's one that Oleg said they actually had in the original Il-2 beta, but removed.

http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/forest_from_above.jpg
A "stacked-polygon forest" near an airfield.

http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/forest_from_side.jpg
Same spot, but from the side. A low-level strafing attack would be very dangerous here due to invisible trees. ALL trees for placement in the FMB are ~1/2 the height of the stacked-poly forests. You also have to place HUGE numbers of trees, hurting FR.


http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/forest_from_side_polyidea.jpg
A single polygon with a side view of trees on it, ieadlly 2 sizes, one maybe 50m long, and another maybe 500m long.


http://members.spinn.net/~merrick/Stuff/forest_from_above_polyidea.jpg
Another view. Again, Oleg said a while back in another thread that this was already coded, but it was for ALL forests, and looked bad on hills.

I don't want this for all forests, just 2 objects in FMB so we can place them near airfields and target areas to define forest edge better.

tater

turnipkiller
08-29-2005, 07:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fuser59:

Another issue: Stackable objects (Vehicles & Equipment on Carriers for example), and Objects that can be placed wherever you put them (x,y, and z coordinances) "they did this with the smoke and lights in the latest patches" will greatly enhance the way mission maps could be designed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second this one.

BaldieJr
08-29-2005, 04:36 PM
I dont understand why forests aren't rendered like clouds (but with varying colors). You get volume + shading. Whats not to like?

ManicGibber
08-29-2005, 06:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Once I mastered the ability of placing my objects, I too noticed a very large problem with flatting of the surrounding terrains.

I think, to a certain extent, that this is one of the reasons that objects placed in the FMB of IL2 cannot be "Pushed" down into the surrounding terrain to mesh well with the other. You allways seem to have a high side "Floats" and a side that "touches" the other surrounding scenery.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If all the objects had extended base sections maybe half as deep as the object and there was a default depth that the objects sit on the terrain mesh, then there won't be any gap on the low side of the terrain mesh as the object would be deep enough to extend down to touch the mesh. On the terrain mesh's high side the objects base would be buried beneath the terrain mesh. This is what happens in RL buildings where a builder isn't going to excavate the soil on a site that isn't level. Only trouble is all the objects would need to be re-created for FB, PF, however this could be done in BoB if the objects haven't been created already.