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MB_Avro_UK
07-14-2008, 04:21 PM
Hi all,

This Aviation Museum in East Anglia relates to RAF and USAF items.

But no humans and a few scary dolls... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tDUIytHO7E

Terrible to see the RAF jet Meteor preseved and exposed to the rain http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

The Meteor was the only Allied jet to see combat in WW2. We have the US P-80 in il2 as compensation. But it never saw combat in WW2.


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

MB_Avro_UK
07-14-2008, 04:21 PM
Hi all,

This Aviation Museum in East Anglia relates to RAF and USAF items.

But no humans and a few scary dolls... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tDUIytHO7E

Terrible to see the RAF jet Meteor preseved and exposed to the rain http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

The Meteor was the only Allied jet to see combat in WW2. We have the US P-80 in il2 as compensation. But it never saw combat in WW2.


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

WTE_Galway
07-14-2008, 04:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

This Aviation Museum in East Anglia relates to RAF and USAF items.

But no humans and a few scary dolls... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tDUIytHO7E

Terrible to see the RAF jet Meteor preseved and exposed to the rain http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

The Meteor was the only Allied jet to see combat in WW2. We have the US P-80 in il2 as compensation. But it never saw combat in WW2.


Best Regards,
MB_Avro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The WWII vintage meteor would get eaten alive in IL2, it was not the greatest performer.

Deedsundone
07-15-2008, 05:56 AM
"Is that music playing constantly across the whole museum?"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Xiolablu3
07-15-2008, 08:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
Hi all,

This Aviation Museum in East Anglia relates to RAF and USAF items.

But no humans and a few scary dolls... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tDUIytHO7E

Terrible to see the RAF jet Meteor preseved and exposed to the rain http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

The Meteor was the only Allied jet to see combat in WW2. We have the US P-80 in il2 as compensation. But it never saw combat in WW2.


Best Regards,
MB_Avro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The WWII vintage meteor would get eaten alive in IL2, it was not the greatest performer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are possibly looking up the Mk1 which was which was basically used for operational evaluation and only really used for testing over the UK and for shooting down flying bombs. Top speed 410mph, which isnt any better than prop fighters. However it was faster than prop planes at low altitudes.

However, look up the F3 which entered service in late 1944. It was conclude that the Meteor III was superior to the Tempest V in all departments except roll and obviously range.

The Meteor Is were all quickly replaced by Meteor IIIs in Dec 1944/Jan 45.

It performed a lot of ground attack in WW2 but never met any enemy fighters. Lots of trouble from friendly fighters mistaking it for the Me262 however.

The Jet program was obviously not as critical as it was in Germany, after all prop fighters were clearly winning hte war. There was uncertainty about production of the Meteor for some time. The jet engines available at the time were clearly "fuel hogs" and the Meteor necessarily had limited range, making it suitable only as a interceptor. Since the bombers of the German Luftwaffe were no longer a real threat to the British Isles, and to the extent that they were they could be dealt with by current fighters, there was no immediate reason to disrupt critical production of existing aircraft to field the Meteor. Test and development of the Meteor continued slowly for the time when it might be needed.

I am not suggesting that the Meteor was superior in performance to the Me262, however at the time the RAF was not desperate enough to field a plane where the engines would catch fire if they throttled up too quickly. As I stated before the war was being won easily with prop fighters. Perhaps if things had been more desperate, more powerful, (and more dangerous to the pilots) would probably have been fielded.

AWL_Spinner
07-15-2008, 09:11 AM
My mum lives about three minutes away from that museum so I've seen the aircraft there many a time!

DuxCorvan
07-15-2008, 09:22 AM
Mr. D*ckhead looked happy to see you in his yellow rubber dress... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kettenhunde
07-15-2008, 10:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Jet program was obviously not as critical as it was in Germany, after all prop fighters were clearly winning hte war. There was uncertainty about production of the Meteor for some time. The jet engines available at the time were clearly "fuel hogs" and the Meteor necessarily had limited range, making it suitable only as a interceptor. Since the bombers of the German Luftwaffe were no longer a real threat to the British Isles, and to the extent that they were they could be dealt with by current fighters, there was no immediate reason to disrupt critical production of existing aircraft to field the Meteor. Test and development of the Meteor continued slowly for the time when it might be needed.

I am not suggesting that the Meteor was superior in performance to the Me262, however at the time the RAF was not desperate enough to field a plane where the engines would catch fire if they throttled up too quickly. As I stated before the war was being won easily with prop fighters. Perhaps if things had been more desperate, more powerful, (and more dangerous to the pilots) would probably have been fielded. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Allies would most certainly would have fielded jets if they could. The fighters of the day were woefully ill equipped to the deal with the V-1 threat. The only effective solution without the jet was to overrun the launch sites.

All the best,

Crumpp

Xiolablu3
07-15-2008, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Jet program was obviously not as critical as it was in Germany, after all prop fighters were clearly winning hte war. There was uncertainty about production of the Meteor for some time. The jet engines available at the time were clearly "fuel hogs" and the Meteor necessarily had limited range, making it suitable only as a interceptor. Since the bombers of the German Luftwaffe were no longer a real threat to the British Isles, and to the extent that they were they could be dealt with by current fighters, there was no immediate reason to disrupt critical production of existing aircraft to field the Meteor. Test and development of the Meteor continued slowly for the time when it might be needed.

I am not suggesting that the Meteor was superior in performance to the Me262, however at the time the RAF was not desperate enough to field a plane where the engines would catch fire if they throttled up too quickly. As I stated before the war was being won easily with prop fighters. Perhaps if things had been more desperate, more powerful, (and more dangerous to the pilots) would probably have been fielded. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Allies would most certainly would have fielded jets if they could. The fighters of the day were woefully ill equipped to the deal with the V-1 threat. The only effective solution without the jet was to overrun the launch sites.

All the best,

Crumpp </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please read up on the De havilland Vampire, rather than get the jet operational quickly, it was decided to send the spare engine that was being used to finalise and test the Vampire to the USA to replace the one that they destroyed, so that the USA could carry on work on the P80. Resulting in the fact that the Vampire would not be ready in time for the war.


Germany fired 9,521 V-I bombs on southern England. Of these 4,621 were destroyed by anti-aircraft fire or by RAF fighters. An estimated 6,184 people were killed by these flying bombs. By August 1944 only 20 per cent of these bombs were reaching England.

Fighters like the Spitfire XIV, Hawker Tempest and Gloster Meteors had the low level speed to intercept the bombs with enough warning.

SOunds like AAA and Fighters did a pretty good job, destroying half of the bombs fired at Britian, and remember it was a big surprise at first, they had to counter the threat over time.

Aaron_GT
07-15-2008, 11:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">However, look up the F3 which entered service in late 1944. It was conclude that the Meteor III was superior to the Tempest V in all departments except roll and obviously range. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Meteor as a whole was really only a technology development platform. This was one reason why it had podded engines - easy to change - and it went through 5 major types of engine (if you include the turboprop used for testing). Gloster had its hopes pinned on the Ace and Rocket (one was single engined, the other twin) with internal engines. Neither were ready before the end of the war, but both looked similar to the P-80. In the end it was decided not to take the Ace and Rocket any further and step over that for the Javelin. By the time the Meteor really got into its stride with the F.8 it was obselete.

As noted, the Vampire development was deprioritised in WW2, although it did end up being the first jet to fly from a carrier. The Vampire line did better in the end and became obselete a bit more slowly than the Meteor. The Vampire from the outset in 1945 had performance in the same region as the P-80 and Me-262.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">SOunds like AAA and Fighters did a pretty good job, destroying half of the bombs fired at Britian, and remember it was a big surprise at first, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd disagree about it being a surprise - the RAF had been photographing and bombing the V1 development sites from 1942 and had a fair amount of data about it. The hope was that the attacks would mean that the system wouldn't be usable until after the Normany landings had pushed the Germans back far enough to take London out of range. So the backup strategy was a hurried air defence plus continuing to attack the launch sites.

Kettenhunde
07-16-2008, 07:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Germany fired 9,521 V-I bombs on southern England. Of these 4,621 were destroyed by anti-aircraft fire or by RAF fighters. An estimated 6,184 people were killed by these flying bombs. By August 1944 only 20 per cent of these bombs were reaching England. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Only because the launch sites were being overrun by ground troops.

Read up on the Anti-diver Campaign. The piston engine fighters of the ADGB just were not effective at stopping the V-1 threat. Their ability to intercept the high speed bombs was limited.

The first operational forays of the Allied jets were to help counter this threat. Here the turbines had a distinct advantage over their piston predecessors.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The main period in which the V1's were falling in London, between June and August 1944, was like nothing experienced before or since. It has often been called the "Doodlebug Summer" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.flyingbombsandrockets.com/V1_maintextg.html

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Germany launched its new weapon from Pas-de-Calais on the northern coast of France, on 12th June, 1944. The first ten failed to reach the country but on the following day one landed in Essex. Over the next few months 1,435 hit south-east England. These attacks created panic in Britain and between mid June and the end of July, around one and a half million people left London.

Germany fired 9,521 V-I bombs on southern England. Of these 4,621 were destroyed by anti-aircraft fire or by RAF fighters such as the new turbojet fighter, the Gloster Meteor. An estimated 6,184 people were killed by these flying bombs. By August only 20 per cent of these bombs were reaching England. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/2WWv1.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">On July 12th 1944 616 Squadron became the first Squadron in the RAF, and that of the Allies, to become operational with Jet aircraft. They received the Gloster Meteor mk 1 which saw its first action on July 27th on 'anti-diver' patrols. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.turner.force9.co.uk/616squadron.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It entered active service with the RAF in the summer of 1944 and many of its first missions were flown to counter the "Buzz Bomb" V-1 attacks being launched against Britain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.rcaf.com/aircraft/fighters/meteor/index.php



It is easy to marginalize the "Doodlebug" summer today as it occurred on the home front. Pragmatically, it was not a strategically important campaign.

People living the event tend not to be so pragmatic when their family's lives are at stake.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">it was decided to send the spare engine that was being used to finalise and test the Vampire to the USA to replace the one that they destroyed, so that the USA could carry on work on the P80. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't find where GE and DeHavilland's exchange of technical ideas held up or delayed Vampire production.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1596/MR1596.appb.pdf

The US P-80 was undergoing operational testing at war's end.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The last full month of the war and the busiest, operationally, for the group for the whole war. 14 dive bombing, twelve bomber escorts some concurrently on the same day, two fighter sweeps, and 29 photo escorts. P-80 jet fighters secretly join 1st Fighter Group at Lake Lessina. Maj Ed LaClare flies two sorties in P-80. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.1stfighter.com/history/1945.html

All the best,

Crumpp