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iRuffy
09-17-2008, 04:15 PM
Hi,
I've just been trying for about 30-40 mins to get my plane back on the deck and have at last succeeded!
I have all the realism on exactly as per Bearcats nuggets guide.
I just got my new AV8R joystick today and couldn't wait to try this out. But boy how on earth am I gonna land without the chase view? I mean from the cockpit? It just took me about 15 attempts to get the thing down safely from the chase view!

I kept nosing it into the ground.
Heres what trial and error has taught a complete noob to flight sims...

Flaps help you take off and land...

When landing a long approach helps, preferable not at 300kmph.

Even at 120kmph it still goes pear shaped.

The best speed for landing is as slow as possible (without stalling)

It is a good idea to reduce the throttle when the wheels touch the ground, otherwise the plane thinks you want to take off again.

Dont try Red Arrow style aerobatics...as this leads to the aircraft falling out of the sky.

The "B" button is the brake!!!


So I think with a little more practice I'll be landing as oppose to bouncing/nosing/crashing more regularly.

Now for the gunnery... you boys are in trouble now.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

iRuffy
09-17-2008, 04:15 PM
Hi,
I've just been trying for about 30-40 mins to get my plane back on the deck and have at last succeeded!
I have all the realism on exactly as per Bearcats nuggets guide.
I just got my new AV8R joystick today and couldn't wait to try this out. But boy how on earth am I gonna land without the chase view? I mean from the cockpit? It just took me about 15 attempts to get the thing down safely from the chase view!

I kept nosing it into the ground.
Heres what trial and error has taught a complete noob to flight sims...

Flaps help you take off and land...

When landing a long approach helps, preferable not at 300kmph.

Even at 120kmph it still goes pear shaped.

The best speed for landing is as slow as possible (without stalling)

It is a good idea to reduce the throttle when the wheels touch the ground, otherwise the plane thinks you want to take off again.

Dont try Red Arrow style aerobatics...as this leads to the aircraft falling out of the sky.

The "B" button is the brake!!!


So I think with a little more practice I'll be landing as oppose to bouncing/nosing/crashing more regularly.

Now for the gunnery... you boys are in trouble now.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Jaws2002
09-17-2008, 04:25 PM
Good job iRuffyhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Ba5tard5word
09-17-2008, 04:47 PM
Good job, it took me FOREVER to land properly, now I can do it 99% of the time.

200kph seems to be the best speed for me to land in pretty much any fighter plane.

Also I figured out recently that once you slow down enough on the runway you can pull back on the stick and set your plane down, but if you're moving too fast you'll fly back up into the air, stall and smack back down again.

Ok, now you should go try landing on a carrier, good luck, it's really tough at first.

iRuffy
09-17-2008, 04:57 PM
cheers, you are spot on about the speed me thinks!

Landed 3 out of the next 5 so I'm getting there.

Then I resorted to trying aerobatics again, and swiftly ending up in the spiral of death. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Having said that, just flying around an airfield and practicing flying around, up, down, turning, loops, landing taking off and landing, does seem to really give you a feel for the game rather than just jumping straight into combat.

I'm gonna continue with this slowly does it approach.

WTE_Galway
09-17-2008, 05:21 PM
Best advice I ever got was pretend you are trying to get as far down the runway as you can without touching while at the same time reducing throttle.

mortoma
09-17-2008, 06:19 PM
Good job! You'll see the day when landing is not a big deal at all, believe it or not. But I would caution you against making an approach as slow as possible like you said. Actually a good approach speed is about 15 knots higher than stall speed. Now when you get just above the runway, with your wheels only 1 to 3 feet above the runway, then you should be at the "slow as possible" speed. You are supposed to literally stall onto the runway during a good landing.

general_kalle
09-18-2008, 01:42 AM
nose above or on horizon when you touchdown( preferably the last 100 meters of inflight should be with full flaps and nose up

aim for 180 kmh touchdown speed
come in shallow enough to prevent the gear from breaking

gentle on the brakes.

P.FunkAdelic
09-18-2008, 04:36 AM
Landing is a pain in the ****. Took me more than a few hours. Now it seems I can land anything, even bombers that I've never flown more than once.

The problem with being TOO slow is that you can reach stall speed and that means if you're more than a few feet off the runway you'll just wing over and blow up.

The way I read things, you use your throttle to decide the rate that you're descending at (do you know what the Variometer is yet?) and the elevators to change speed or direction.

When it comes to rate of descent you don't want the variometer to read anything higher than 1 (on an American plane anyway) or else you risk blowing the landing gear. Its hard work getting the speed, rate of descent and touchdown spot all perfect.

I'm still practicing. I can get the angle and speed and such just its hard to not run out of runway before you nurse it down. Carriers are tough too. Great training campaign for that one though.

iRuffy
09-18-2008, 07:36 AM
I checked the guide and the landing speed for the LA5 was 165kmph.
Is there anywhere that lists the stall speeds?

A variometer??? I guess its the rate of decent/ascent, but for now I'm just trying to get the plane at the start of the runway in a straight line (ish) and slow enough to land.

The best landings I have done seem to be virtual stalls from about 3 feet. i.e I pull up gently to raise the nose and the aircraft gently touches down.

Tonight I'll hopefully be going on to phase two of my training!

Worf101
09-18-2008, 09:14 AM
Congrats!!!! Now report to the USS Saratoga for Carrier Training!!! LOL, man it's good to see new folks and fresh faces in this sim. Salute.

Da Worfster

leitmotiv
09-18-2008, 09:56 AM
Congratulations. I've been using this sim for 4.5 years and I, until this morning, had been unable to land the I-153 with its narrow track undercarriage without ground looping or worse. Today, without thinking about it too much, I made a textbook landing on rough ground with the fickle I-153. About time.

Stingray333
09-18-2008, 10:04 AM
Congrats on the first landing. I remember my first landing.. oh wait.. I don't.. Now that I think about it, I don't even remember what I had for dinner last night. Getting old sucks.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Good job, keep at it, work on carrier landings and once you master those, landing on big large open airfields is a breeze

Stingray

Marcel_Albert
09-18-2008, 10:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
200kph seems to be the best speed for me to land in pretty much any fighter plane.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is pretty high IMHO , should be between 130 km/h and 160km/h max depending the plane bar a few exceptions

general_kalle
09-18-2008, 10:22 AM
looking for a challenge in landing.

land the B24 beautifully,
carrier land any non carrier plane
put down the Lerche in one attempt, without climbing the least bit once you are hovering vertical.

Stingray333
09-18-2008, 10:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Marcel_Albert:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
200kph seems to be the best speed for me to land in pretty much any fighter plane.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is pretty high IMHO , should be between 130 km/h and 160km/h max depending the plane bar a few exceptions </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like to come in around 200 kmh or faster, 200-220 kmh on the approach, then touch down at around 180kmh or so. I find that using the "stall onto the runway approach" at least for me, results in the most bouncing and typically the roughest landings. Coming in a little bit faster, I can then fly just over the runway while lowering the throttle and settle on it very gently without any bounce.

Quite often I am flying in co-ops or organized missions with a lot of other people who are landing/taking off at the same time. It is handy to be able to, for example, extend your glide over the runway to give the person landing right behind you some room on the runway, or to be able to pull up and abort if the person landing right in front of you happens to crash. Also nice to be able to force the plane down a little bit earlier should you need. Flying a little bit faster, around 200 kmh over the approach and over the first part of the runway, at least for me, gives me as many options as to how and where to land, whereas flying much closer to the stall speed I feel that I am more at the mercy of touching down when the plane is ready to fall out of the sky, and the controls don't have the authority to give many options. Typically I fly a BF-109 or BF-110 for the record. Some planes you can come in incredibly slow, the zero for example, you can land that thing fine going around 130kmh.

Also I like to come in a little bit "hot" on the public dog fight servers to avoid coming in on a very slow 150kmh approach and be sitting ducks to vultures looking for easy prey.

Stingray

M_Gunz
09-18-2008, 10:57 AM
I find it good to touch down a little slower than taking off as well, then get the flaps up.

A good way to control speed with CSP is manual pitch at 100%.
Open the rads full, canopy if you can and generally hang everything out that makes drag then
as long as you're over stall speed, work the landing mantra:

Pitch (nose up or down) to control speed, throttle to control height.

Use rudder only to stay level and don't wait for the ball.

Urufu_Shinjiro
09-18-2008, 11:09 AM
Mgunz raises a good point that most miss. When you touch down raise the flaps ASAP. When the flaps raise you loose lift so you settle down better and there's less chance of bouncing up into the air again.

Stingray333
09-18-2008, 06:09 PM
http://www.kossan.se/roliga-filmer/flygplan_landar_utan_hjul.htm

WTE_Galway
09-18-2008, 06:18 PM
If you really want to test your landing skills download a campaign called "For Good Pilots" from M4T and try the second mission.

Anyone that lands that one first attempt has my everlasting respect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Stingray333
09-18-2008, 06:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
If you really want to test your landing skills download a campaign called "For Good Pilots" from M4T and try the second mission.

Anyone that lands that one first attempt has my everlasting respect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

with the prize of everlasting respect, who could resist! I will give it a try, and will let you know (honestly) how many tries it takes. If the mission calls for a plane that I am familiar with, I will try to fly it right away, if not, I might take a bit to try the plane out before attempting the mission. Unfortunately I don't think that I will be able to fly any IL-2 until Sunday at the earliest this week,

Stingray

WTE_Galway
09-18-2008, 07:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stingray333:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
If you really want to test your landing skills download a campaign called "For Good Pilots" from M4T and try the second mission.

Anyone that lands that one first attempt has my everlasting respect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

with the prize of everlasting respect, who could resist! I will give it a try, and will let you know (honestly) how many tries it takes. If the mission calls for a plane that I am familiar with, I will try to fly it right away, if not, I might take a bit to try the plane out before attempting the mission. Unfortunately I don't think that I will be able to fly any IL-2 until Sunday at the earliest this week,

Stingray </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its basically a bit like a carrier landing you need to do a 3 pointer right on the threshold without bounce. You will see what I mean when you try it.

Its not an impossible landing, just one that I would be surprised if many people can do on first attempt.

Overall its a good campaign and worth downloading.

Stingray333
09-18-2008, 07:22 PM
Yeah, that campaign looks very interesting, I have never run across it on M4T so looking forward to going through it

Stingray

PhantomKira
09-18-2008, 09:12 PM
Congratulations! I'm sure you've found the use of brakes bad by now. Most of these aircraft are tailwheel, and as with real world tailwheel aircraft, it's best to just stay off the brakes on landing and let friction slow the aircraft.

As for air gunnery, my advice is to get a stick without rudder in the stick itself (get separate rudder controls). One of my biggest problems with gunnery is a tendancy to "slew" the stick when pressing my triggers, just when I have crosshairs centered on target, and thus hit the rudders, due to my twist-stick (Microsoft Force Feedback). Pulls my rounds off target and into empty space. It stinks when that happens!

squareusr
09-19-2008, 01:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for air gunnery, my advice is to get a stick without rudder in the stick itself (get separate rudder controls). One of my biggest problems with gunnery is a tendancy to "slew" the stick when pressing my triggers, just when I have crosshairs centered on target, and thus hit the rudders, due to my twist-stick (Microsoft Force Feedback). Pulls my rounds off target and into empty space. It stinks when that happens! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dunno what exactly you are operating with the left (or "other") hand, but i used to fire my guns with the left hand when i had a twist stick. First it was the mouse buttons, later i had knobs assigned on my throttle controller box thingy assigned to guns and bombs. Stick still had guns 1+2 on the main trigger, but i only used that for those rare unplanned snapshots. Still have those knobs assigned, but now i only use them when i need to avoid my slightly imperfect two stage triggers on the stick.

Pigeon_
09-20-2008, 03:32 AM
Good job, iRuffy! Congratulations!

Although a little tricky at first, I never had much trouble with landing in IL2. I have to admit, though, that I had played a lot of other sims before IL2 and I can imagine how hard the flying must be in IL2 without any previous simming experience.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
Mgunz raises a good point that most miss. When you touch down raise the flaps ASAP. When the flaps raise you loose lift so you settle down better and there's less chance of bouncing up into the air again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Raising the flaps will indeed decrease the lift of the wings, but, more importantly, it will also decrease the drag which slows you down. That's why pilots leave the flaps extended until they've slowed down to taxi speed or come to a complete stop. They also help to take off again quickly in the case of an emergency.

Stingray333
09-20-2008, 11:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pigeon_:
Good job, iRuffy! Congratulations!

Although a little tricky at first, I never had much trouble with landing in IL2. I have to admit, though, that I had played a lot of other sims before IL2 and I can imagine how hard the flying must be in IL2 without any previous simming experience.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
Mgunz raises a good point that most miss. When you touch down raise the flaps ASAP. When the flaps raise you loose lift so you settle down better and there's less chance of bouncing up into the air again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Raising the flaps will indeed decrease the lift of the wings, but, more importantly, it will also decrease the drag which slows you down. That's why pilots leave the flaps extended until they've slowed down to taxi speed or come to a complete stop. They also help to take off again quickly in the case of an emergency. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I do agree with what you are saying, in a tail dragger aircraft, I would rather lower my flaps quickly, get my tail wheel on the ground and locked and begin braking with the wheels rather than relying on the the drag of the flaps to slow me down

Stingray333
09-20-2008, 11:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stingray333:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
If you really want to test your landing skills download a campaign called "For Good Pilots" from M4T and try the second mission.

Anyone that lands that one first attempt has my everlasting respect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

with the prize of everlasting respect, who could resist! I will give it a try, and will let you know (honestly) how many tries it takes. If the mission calls for a plane that I am familiar with, I will try to fly it right away, if not, I might take a bit to try the plane out before attempting the mission. Unfortunately I don't think that I will be able to fly any IL-2 until Sunday at the earliest this week,

Stingray </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its basically a bit like a carrier landing you need to do a 3 pointer right on the threshold without bounce. You will see what I mean when you try it.

Its not an impossible landing, just one that I would be surprised if many people can do on first attempt.

Overall its a good campaign and worth downloading. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Howdy WTE_Galway,

I've downloaded the campaign, sadly, I was not able to complete this on the first attempt: I did manage to fly under all the bridges clean on the first attempt, but the exit is blocked by several large gas tanks which you must shoot to fly out, but unfortunately I was in my "Landing" Mode of my X-52, so when I went to fire the trigger I harmlessly activated my wheel brake. I have since both flown and landed under the bridges, but not on the first try unfortunately, pretty tough to do, not a lot of room for error!

Stingray

iRuffy
09-20-2008, 12:22 PM
Just to say thanks for the input.

Very excited about this game, and cant believe I left it this long to try.

I've watched the training vids now and it seems the main problem with my landings was a short approach, I need to start 5 km out.
Having said that the other problem was that I couldn't see the grass runway, I would suggest newbies start on a concrete option as you can see it from far away?


I have found Zeus Training campaigns now although the link in the original post is broken.

Also the aircraft guide by ND looks just what I was after, a problem with IL2 is that it only lists the aircraft by code ie. Lag4 etc, which us hardly helpful for newbies wanting to set up fighter/bomber missions etc, and ends up against better fighters than what I'm in!

Joystick:
AV8R is great, however the hand rest didn't screw on properly and Saitek have ignored my email, which is par for the course with customer service this side of the pond.
It worked straight out of the box though and I've even starting being able to track enemies using the POV thumb thingy, it is way cool watching an enemy go down into the drink!

Not sure what are the best buttons to have on my joystick though and am still a overwhelmed by the quantity of information available for this sim.

Ah one other thing, isn't it better to set convergence to further than 300m? As I am thinking getting closer means the enemy will be shooting at me before I'm shooting at them? (Talking about attacking bombers here)

Fehler
09-21-2008, 03:07 AM
This is the wonderful thing about IL2. The fresh new faces being given their first doses of crack.

Ahh, soon you will be hooked.

All your base are belong to Oleg!

deskpilot
09-21-2008, 09:53 AM
well done fellow noob! I am getting much better, now and if I can anyone can. My problem (any ideas anyone)? is that on European airfields the runways are so damned hard to spot with my ageing eyes! They are just a very very slightly lighter green than the grass surrounding them. Anyone else have this problem?