PDA

View Full Version : Enemy aircraft out of combat



Patagonic
09-24-2004, 08:24 AM
I€ve been flying the Extreme_One Two Little Ducs campaign for the last couple of weeks, Excelent campaign by the way!! I`m about to start my 19th mission I€ve got so far 15 kills and I`ve been shoot down only once. O.K. I€m not an Ace. The problem is with my wingmans, many times I engaged an enemy aircraft and after I left that plane out of combat with black smoke coming from it or even in flames, another aircraft form my squadron engage the same aircraft to finish the kill.
I notice that we have a command €œengane my target€ Would it be posible to to add another command to avoid friendly aircraft to shoot at the same enemy? for example €œdo not engage my target€ or €œenemy aircraft out of combat€. This way A.I. will avoid to engage an aircraft that will eventually crash somewhere.

Nice new site!!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chuck_Older
09-24-2004, 08:36 AM
This isn't an issue with Two little Ducs, it's the way the AI works in the sim.

I have made a mission recently in which my second element will not rejoin the formation after a dogfight. Even if every enemy pane is in a smoking hole in the ground, they will orbit the place the last plane went down. They say all day long, "Roger, forming up" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Patagonic
09-24-2004, 08:59 AM
Chuck, I Know that the problem is in the A.I. but when I€am flying other planes: Zero, Lagg, Spitfire, P-38, Bf-109 or even the P-40 I shoot them down with one or two passes. The 1943 P- 51 with only four .50 cal machines guns requieres a little more work to shoot down an Fw-190, and my wingmans take advantage of that.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Chuck_Older
09-24-2004, 09:03 AM
Oh, how do they manage to rip those a/c apart with the same guns that you have trouble shooting down a plane with?

Easy. It's not you. The AI has a generally easier time than you do with anything. Watch them make direct astern attacks on bombers and live!

DD_NL
09-24-2004, 09:04 AM
Yes, the AI are blatant kill-stealers as well. I've had several occasions where my wingman tried to ram me so he could get into a good firing position. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

mortoma
09-24-2004, 12:17 PM
Yea, AI kill stealing has been a problem with this sim from the get go. We need a key command such as "He's mine!" or "I got him". Or how about "Get your own kill, you lazy AI S.O.B.!!" The AI are progammed to get an easy kill instead of working hard for one, like you do. This is the problem. Or they could just put in a simple line of code where the AI will aggressively attack undamaged aircraft if there are any around and leave the damaged ones alone.

Patagonic
09-24-2004, 12:44 PM
I totally agree with you mortoma http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, and I really don`t think It would be to dificult to program such thing. Perharps it should be consider for the first PF Patch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif.

JG54_Arnie
09-24-2004, 01:29 PM
Yes, and if there's an enemy contact on your six moving into shooting range, the AI will not engage it, but flies in harmonious formation with it untill the AI actually presses the trigger, then the wingman start some acrobatic loops and engages the contact. But ofcourse, because of that pretty loop it takes a while... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Patagonic
09-24-2004, 02:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG54_Arnie:
Yes, and if there's an enemy contact on your six moving into shooting range, the AI will not engage it, but flies in harmonious formation with it untill the AI actually presses the trigger, then the wingman start some acrobatic loops and engages the contact. But ofcourse, because of that pretty loop it takes a while... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, JG54_Arnie. I think I understand what you are trying to say but It could work in this way: The A.I. will not engage only the aircraft you had a padlock on. For those who prefer "full real" the padlock button will only avoid that your wingman engage a particular aircraft, it will not follow that plane. This way if there´s an enemy on your six the A.I. will engage it. What do you think about it?

JG54_Arnie
09-25-2004, 02:25 AM
Hmm, I dont think I got your point.

But my post wasnt very clear either, I used AI and Wingman in the wrong way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My point was that your wingman will not engage enemy AI on your six untill it start shooting you. So if that enemy is about .50 away and your wingman is as well, they fly together in formation... (not really ofcourse, but it looks that way). Only when the enemy AI opens fire on you, the wingman will start manouvering to get on his six. Then he doesnt lower his throttle so he can get behind the enemy quickly.. no he starts turning and looping and gets behind fast.

But I never use padlock, so I have no experience with that.

ned7777
08-17-2006, 10:55 AM
the ai is bullsh#t i had two spitfeuers vs three hawk erly versions the cr@p ones the hawks gave them a ru for their money an the end had two damgeged hawks one downed and a minor damaged spitfeuer and a downed one that should not be the case. a spitfeuer shold kill the hawks

horseback
08-17-2006, 11:57 AM
The ai have been a bit better behaved in the past; it may be that all these patches to upgrade FMs, DMs, firing rates and ammo loadouts have had an unfortunate effect on other parts of the code.

As for the tendency of your ai wingmen to steal your kills, it is universal. As Chuck pointed out, the ai 'sit still' for each other. You have to expend your ammo on a target that starts rolling and doing those cute (ahistorical) negative G maneuvers as soon as your crosshairs start to converge on them any closer than 100m greater than your convergence settings, even after you've set them on fire or blown major control surfaces off the aircraft. On the other hand, once an ai Ace lines up on a wounded duck, the bastage obligingly flies straight & level so he can be sent to oblivion by his buddy.

Better yet is the defending gunners on multiseat aircraft; they'll take out the Player with a single burst from a wildly rolling aircraft from distances approaching 600m at Ace level, and miss your ai wingman flying formation with them at 100m, flying docilely straight and level so that he can de-wing them with his 7.9mms and save his cannon rounds for later.

As a matter of practice, your best solution is to edit the missions before flying them so that your wingmen and supporting flights are ranked no higher than Veteran (and I'd save that only for your wingman-remember to press Tab-1-1 before engaging).

Aces on your side are useless to you 90% of the time, spending all their efforts scoring-which means that they usually slide in after you've damaged your target (incidentally using up a lot of ammo in the process) and blow it away with a single burst. Veterans are almost as bad-under no circumstances would I permit the Number Three in my flight to rank higher than Rookie-that one spot in the formation seems to have always been coded to poach your kills from the days of the original Il-2 Sturmovik sim.

I try to concentrate my efforts on my own airfield when I'm editing a mission so that I can preserve the surprise of the enemy's point of attack, numbers and composition. If you're still a low-ranker not leading your flight, you may also want to fix some of the waypoints or assigned Object (if your flight is assigned to escort another flight, keeping up with your leader can be nigh impossible) as well.

There also seems to be a problem with flights playing their intended roles. The ai coding apparently makes every aircraft a fighter, incapable of staying in formation or holding on to their bombs when enemy aircraft appear. The Mission building software should allow the builder to assign mission roles to flights or individual aircraft like Bomber, Ground Attack, Reconn, Point Defense Fighter, Fighter sweep or Escort fighter.

Bombers and ground attack a/c should try to stay in formation and press on to their targets, fighter bombers dropping their ordnance only when they are specifically engaged or given permission by the Player. Escorts should engage attackers a flight at a time, leaving half their strength to cover their bombers or recon a/c. Point defense fighters should stay in position, and concentrate on bombers and ground attak a/c, and so on, instead of everyone, bombers included, turning and burning in a hare-brained melee.

Hopefully BoB will assign different ai routines to bombers/ground attackers and a realistic difficulty factor to their defensive gunners.

cheers

horseback

joeap
08-18-2006, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by ned7777:
the ai is bullsh#t i had two spitfeuers vs three hawk erly versions the cr@p ones the hawks gave them a ru for their money an the end had two damgeged hawks one downed and a minor damaged spitfeuer and a downed one that should not be the case. a spitfeuer shold kill the hawks
GEEEEZ DON'T DIG UP OLD THREADS BUD! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif NOT KOSHER!

MadRuski
08-18-2006, 03:25 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
and leave the damaged ones alone.

but his cant work very well due to the fact that on the eastern front, if your a soviet pilot, no matter how damaged the the enemy is, he has to go down in flames