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View Full Version : It's all authentic stop knocking tom cruise



XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:20 PM
Hi you guys I think you are being a bit unfair.
It's all totaly authentic - have a look at this extract from
deighton's book (sorry about the copyright len - everyone go out and buy fighter before i get sued)

http://perso.club-internet.fr/ptthome/americans.jpg


You see there were three americans flying in BOB. And the one in the middle was so short that he needed two cushions on his seat so that he could see over his joystick.

Now after flying the whole of Top gun on one cushion Tom Cruise is the only actor experienced and short enough to go the extra cushion.

Actualy you all got the title wrong - it will be called "The Very Few" as the original draft "Two Americans and a very short chap save England" was a bit long winded.

I'm also assured that all the details will be authentic - they are DNA colour matching the paint on Manfred"s red fokker triplane to get it perfect for the final scene

http://perso.club-internet.fr/ptthome/vulogo3.JPG



http://perso.club-internet.fr/ptthome/vulogo3.JPG

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:20 PM
Hi you guys I think you are being a bit unfair.
It's all totaly authentic - have a look at this extract from
deighton's book (sorry about the copyright len - everyone go out and buy fighter before i get sued)

http://perso.club-internet.fr/ptthome/americans.jpg


You see there were three americans flying in BOB. And the one in the middle was so short that he needed two cushions on his seat so that he could see over his joystick.

Now after flying the whole of Top gun on one cushion Tom Cruise is the only actor experienced and short enough to go the extra cushion.

Actualy you all got the title wrong - it will be called "The Very Few" as the original draft "Two Americans and a very short chap save England" was a bit long winded.

I'm also assured that all the details will be authentic - they are DNA colour matching the paint on Manfred"s red fokker triplane to get it perfect for the final scene

http://perso.club-internet.fr/ptthome/vulogo3.JPG



http://perso.club-internet.fr/ptthome/vulogo3.JPG

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:36 PM
thier were more foreign pilots then british,

pols czechs americans french canadians


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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:39 PM
love your signature!

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:59 PM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- thier were more foreign pilots then british,
-
- pols czechs americans french canadians


I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. Here's the breakdown according to Patrick Bishop's Fighter Boys- Saving Britain 1940 from pgs 241 and 242:

"Of the airmen who flew in Fighter Command between 10 July and the end of October 1940, 2334 were British, 145 were Polish, 126 from New Zealand, 98 from Canada, 88 from Czechoslovakia, 33 from Australia, 29 from Belgium, 25 from South Africa, 13 from France, 11 from the United States, 10 from Ireland, 3 from Rhodesia and 1 each from Jamaica and Newfoundland."

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:12 AM
yeah but as we all know 1 aussie is worth 100 whiner pommies so thats 33 aussies to 23.34 pommies therfore forign nationals did outweigh the brits

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:31 AM
I think we should all just be grateful that there is interest and money enough to make a film about the BoB. Sure there will be license taken, and that will make an interesting episode of "History vs. Hollywood".

Because Cruse is such a well know actor I'm sure the budget for the film will be staggering. You can be assured that all the latest CG and model technology will be utilized to recreate dogfighting scenes. I personally can't wait. Hell, we all love this stuff; you think we'd be the first in line to see Spits vs. 109's over Dover, right?

And I know there will be a lot of comparison to the 'Maverick' character and the film 'Top Gun'. Let me remind you that Cruse has come along way since then w/ excellent roles and acting in movies such as 'Magnolia', 'Eyes Wide Shut', and 'Vanilla Sky', so we know he can act, and act well.

And BTW I loved Top Gun when it came out and still enjoy watching it. That move inspired a hailstorm of popular interest in aviation, should this new venture spark the same kind of popular interest in WWII aviation we all will benefit.


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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:58 AM
WTE_Konigwolf wrote:
- yeah but as we all know 1 aussie is worth 100 whiner
- pommies so thats 33 aussies to 23.34 pommies
- therfore forign nationals did outweigh the brits
-
-



I am not sure if it means aussie are braver and take more risks or were just worse pilots ... but if you read the stats at the end of the BoB movie the aussie casualty rates in BoB were far far higher than any other nationality .. something like 2/3 of the 30 odd who flew were killed.

<center> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQDLAtUWiWZ3BKw19!aryp7v3C1h1DuNwpHOOuqhlraGSyMAY KiPEOZAA1OBgsLu*Sa0UQ2my0PiFyvNkJ5K7Clsoy7yNtEvOXY nHDuPNiotpZACY2oJxw/aircraftround.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 03:27 AM
Don't the two guys outside the plane look like Capt. Blackadder and Lt. George?

http://perso.club-internet.fr/ptthome/americans.jpg

and....

http://home.austin.rr.com/jasandtrace/images/black.gif

Don't tell me I'm the only one who can see the resemblance.



Liege-Killer

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 03:41 AM
Please stop Liege-Killer! I think I busted a rib falling out of my chair! LOL!

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 04:26 AM
this movie should be based on William Dunn, the first American ace, that way the american audience gets there "america saves the day" movie but its still authentic. while im talkin about him had anyone ever read William Dunn's book "Fighter Pilot"?. his stories of his BoB days in Eagle squadron is very much movie worthy.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 04:58 AM
MR. BEAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!! QUACK!!!!

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 05:32 AM
WTE_Konigwolf wrote:
- yeah but as we all know 1 aussie is worth 100 whiner
- pommies so thats 33 aussies to 23.34 pommies
- therfore forign nationals did outweigh the brits
-
-

Ill drink a real cold beer to that statement !

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first post for me





"id buy that for a dollar"

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:08 AM
georgeo76 wrote:
- And I know there will be a lot of comparison to the
- 'Maverick' character and the film 'Top Gun'. Let me
- remind you that Cruse has come along way since then
- w/ excellent roles and acting in movies such as
- 'Magnolia', 'Eyes Wide Shut', and 'Vanilla Sky', so
- we know he can act, and act well.


No offence meant, georgeo76, but "Tom Cruise" and "act well" don't fit together comfortably in the same sentence!

Anyway, I agree that a pseudo-realistic BoB movie would be interesting, as long as the animators don't use the same crazy X-wing manoeuvres as were seen in that stupid Pearl Harbour flick.

IV/JG7_4Shades

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:12 AM
FourShades wrote:

- Anyway, I agree that a pseudo-realistic BoB movie
- would be interesting, as long as the animators don't
- use the same crazy X-wing manoeuvres as were seen in
- that stupid Pearl Harbour flick.



Now Now ... its a well known fact that US fighters at the time of Pearl could out-manouvre the slow clumsy heavy Zero easily and furthermore fooling the japanese pilotsd into ramming each other in there unmanouvaberable Zero's was a well documented tactic in use by the USAAC at the time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif




<center> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQDLAtUWiWZ3BKw19!aryp7v3C1h1DuNwpHOOuqhlraGSyMAY KiPEOZAA1OBgsLu*Sa0UQ2my0PiFyvNkJ5K7Clsoy7yNtEvOXY nHDuPNiotpZACY2oJxw/aircraftround.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:14 AM
Eagle Squadrons were a bit late for BOB as per below, are we sure that the film is not after BoB?? Or maybe they got confused with Eagle Day http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Still if its a film about an AMI (one of 11 according to the official figures) pilot in BOB is to be made lets hope it combines visual effects of "Dark Blue World" with the story of BOB (no hollywood love stories like took up all of Pearl Harbour)
Perhaps they can use IL2 to record the scenes before doing the proper CGI http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/es.html

Prior to the United States' entry into WWII many Americans volunteered for service in the RAF and RCAF. The Battle of Britain raged from May though October 1940. Most Americans followed the battle in the news and knew that in time the US would become involved in the war. The stories of the RAF pilots flying their Hurricanes and Spitfires inspired many to look into joining the RAF. As a result of the Battle of Britain the RAF was short on pilots so a call went out for pilots to replace the RAF's depleted ranks. Of the thousands that volunteered, 244 American pilots were to fly for the Eagle Squadrons; Number 71, 121, and 133 Squadrons of the Royal Air Force Fighter Command. It was the RAF's policy to pick Englishmen as squadron and flight commanders and 16 of these British pilots served with the Eagle Squadrons. From the time the first Eagle Squadron was formed in September 1940 until all three squadrons were disbanded and incorporated into the USAAF in September 1942, they destroyed 73 1/2 German planes while 77 American and 5 British members were killed.

An organization named the Knight Committee was responsible for recruiting nearly 90 percent of the Eagle Squadron members. The basic requirements for those interested in joining the Eagles were a high school diploma, between 20 and 31 years of age, eyesight that was 20/40 correctable to 20/20, and 300 hours of certified flying time. These requirements were somewhat less strict than those required for service in the USAAF which is the reason some of the pilots joined the RAF or the RCAF in the first place. Most Eagle Squadron pilots did not have a college education or prior military experience. The reason most of the pilots volunteered was quite simply for adventure. Leo Nomis wrote "I think that all of us, with very few exceptions were simply adventurers and romanticists, and perhaps idealists." Robert Patterson noted "I joined the RAF not primarily for patriotic reasons. We all knew a war was coming. I used this as a quick way for some flying excitement." Howard Stickland observed "We were all motivated by the thought of high adventure, the excitment of combat flying, and a desire to help the British." Red McColpin wrote that some "could not take the long routine in the U.S. services to become military pilots, when they were already experienced aviators." Once in England the new recruits were sent to an operational training unit (OTU) for two to four weeks, where they learned to fly Miles Master trainers, Hurricanes, and Spitfires before being posted to a squadron. After OTU some of the men went straight to one of the Eagle Squadrons while others first served with other RAF squadrons before being transferred to an Eagle squadron.

Having arrived at his squadron, the new eagle pilot had to become proficient in formation flying and knowledgeable of the current tactics. The formation most commonly used was the line astern formation where the squadron's planes flew in three lines of four, with each section spaced 200 to 300 yards apart. Each line of four, or flight, was referred to as either white, red, or blue flight. Also used was the the line abreast formation with the planes again divided in flights of four with the middle flight out in front of the other two. In the area of tactics the pilots were instructed to get in close, fire in short bursts, use height for advantage, turn to face an attack, maintain high cover, and hit hard quickly and get out.

Once operational the squadrons took part in a variety of missions. Convoy escort patrols were common, long, and monototonous. Usually convoy escort was done by 2 planes flying circuits around the ships at an altitude as low as 100 feet. Given poor weather, fog & haze it was not uncommon for planes to crash into the sea. Rhubarbs were two plane low level ground attack missions. McColpin wrote "Of all the missions, the rhubarb was the most fun. Flying a few feet off the ground, you shot up railroads, troops, tanks, ships, or anything else of military value." A hit to a Hurricane or Spitfire's glycol system however meant a bail over enemy territory. A Circus was a combined bomber & fighter mission designed to draw out the LW. Ramrods were bomber escort missions. The bombers escorted were generally Blenheims, Bostons, Hurricane bombers or B-17s. A Balboa had the fighters serving as decoys while bombers hit a nearby target. Among the German-occupied targets over which the pilots flew were Ostend, Belgium; and Dunkirk, Lille, Abbeville, St Omer, Calais, Boulogne, Dieppe and Cherbourg, France. A fighter sweep was referred to as a Rodeo. Those squadrons based at the larger bases such as Biggin Hill and North Weald usually flew sweeps as part of a three squadron wing while those based at smaller bases such as Martlesham Heath flew solo sweeps or top cover for the wing in their sector.

When informed of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor most of the Eagle Squadron pilots wanted to immediately join the Air Corps. 71 and 121 Squadrons sent representatives to the American Embassy in London and offered their services to the US the following day. 71 squadron then decided they wanted to go to Singapore to fight the Japanese and a proposal was put to Fighter Command but turned down. It would take some time however for the USAAF to organize and ship to England the elements necessary to support air operations. HQ 8th Air Force opened on 18 June 1942 in London with Major General Carl Spaatz commanding. On 26 June 1942 air echelons of the 31st Fighter Group (307th, 308th, 309th FS) were established at Atcham and High Ercall, England. These were the first combat personnel of the VIII Fighter Command to reach the UK. These squadrons were equipped with Spit Vs and flew thier first mission on 17 August 1942. The first USAAF air operation over W Europe took place on 4 July 1942 with the 15th Bombardment Squadron (Light) flying 6 Bostons belonging to No. 226 Squadron RAF.

Negotiations regarding transfer to the USAAF between the Eagle Squadrons, USAAF and the RAF had to resolve a number of issues. Determining what rank they would assume in the USAAF had to be negotiated with most pilots given a rank equivalent to their RAF rank. None of the Eagle Squadron pilots had served in the USAAF and didn't have US pilot's wings. It was decided to give them US pilots wings upon their transfer. General Spaatz wanted to spread the experience of the Eagles amongst various new US fighter squadrons but the three Eagle Squadrons wanted to stay together as units. The RAF wanted some compensation for losing 3 front line squadrons that they had invested heavily in. Compensation to the RAF had to be negotiated. An agreement had to be reached between the English and the Americans to supply the squadrons with aircraft after they transfered to the USAAF. The US did not have any suitable aircraft in 1942. Part of the agreement called for the new squadrons to be equipped with Spitfire VBs.

Although transfers between the Eagle Squadrons were common they were not under the same type of unified command structure that they would later find themselves under as members of the Fourth Fighter Group. In fact the only operation that all three squadrons participated at the same time was the Dieppe raid of 19 August. On 29 September 1942 the Eagle Squadrons were incorporated into the Fourth Fighter Group, USAAF as the 334th(71), 335th(121), and 336th(133).

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:21 AM
- And BTW I loved Top Gun when it came out and still
- enjoy watching it.

Yes, Top Gun was good, despite, not because of Tom Cruise. The reason being a good ENGLISH director, Tony Scott. Brother to the even better ENGLISH director Ridley Scott.

I'd never join a club that would have ME as a member!!.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:34 AM
"are we sure that the film is not after BoB?? "

Not if it's about Billy Fiske, which I'm led to believe it is. He was shot down on 18th August 1940, crashing at Tangmere, and died the next day. That was at the height of the BoB

"If I had all the money I've spent on drink....I'd spend it on drink!"

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:46 AM
No.1RAAF_Dest................... damn nice post

u.s infantry 84-91

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:35 AM
WTE_Konigwolf wrote:
- yeah but as we all know 1 aussie is worth 100 whiner
- pommies so thats 33 aussies to 23.34 pommies
- therfore forign nationals did outweigh the brits
-
-



Just as long as its 33 Kylies (or Hollys) & not 33 Jason Donovans, now if you could just pop off & make an amusing TV program about wreslling croc's, that would be spiffing. TTFN

MB

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:36 PM
Bloody 'ell whats all this rhetoric I hear about a yank playing in a movie about a yank in britain during the battle of britain? Poppycock! It's utter rubbish!

I would continue but it's tea time, and I must go...

lol sorry it's 6:30 and I've been at work all night and felt like poking some fun. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Give me a foster's mate!

We are the nights who say "NI!" if you do not wish to hear the word "NI!" again you must do as we ask of you.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:42 PM
He's not a yank to me; he's from Hollywood. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:15 PM
Oh I can't wait for Tom Cruise to rewrite history and single handidly win the War.
Thank god Ben Afleck was there to help the poor British pilots too.

Not that I think this film is going to be biased in anyway.

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 03:04 PM
always makes me laugh the way Aussies whinge all the time about whingeing. Almost as though they're the ones who whinge all the time!

Quick, matron, pass the Vegemite, or he's gonna start whingeing about how much less salty it is then Marmite.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 03:34 PM
ptthome wrote:

-
- Now after flying the whole of Top gun on one cushion
- Tom Cruise is the only actor experienced and short
- enough to go the extra cushion.
-


To bad Marty Feldman couldn't do it, he would have been great!



Message Edited on 09/19/0303:03PM by Maddog1962

JerseyD
09-19-2003, 03:46 PM
It's no more ridiculous than an Australian playing an American Revolutionary War hero guys. You should all just relax/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 03:54 PM
JerseyD wrote:
- It's no more ridiculous than an Australian playing
- an American Revolutionary War hero guys. You should
- all just relax

Actually, come to think of it, look all the brits that were in "Black Hawk Down". Plus Eric Bana who is an Ozzie. Don't get me wrong, They did a fab job in BHD.

In fact, I was completely surprised to find out that Eric Bana was an Ozzie. His southern accent in the movie completely sold me. He completely had me sold as some new actor from Alabama.


Liege-Killer

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 04:14 PM
First American BOB ace, wasn't he Ben Afflack? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 04:19 PM
- "Of the airmen who flew in Fighter Command between
- 10 July and the end of October 1940, 2334 were
- British, 145 were Polish, 126 from New Zealand, 98
- from Canada, 88 from Czechoslovakia, 33 from
- Australia, 29 from Belgium, 25 from South Africa, 13
- from France, 11 from the United States, 10 from
- Ireland, 3 from Rhodesia and 1 each from Jamaica and
- Newfoundland."

Now, a movie about the Jamaican pilot that saved Britain during BOB, that'd be something


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I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man,
nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine.

Miss A. R.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 04:36 PM
Have to agree that if you're going to do a Battle of Britain flick, it should be about Brit and Commonwealth pilots, not a fictionalized Yank, unless you could do it as a 'coming of age' type of flick with a Toby McGuire or someone similar as the idealistic young American caught up in the early parts of the war,joining the RAF and learning the ropes from the the old hands, and realizing how important the war against fascism was, and maybe becoming a competent wingman. Doing it properly would call for a three and a half hour movie.

Cruise is a little long in the tooth to play a fighter pilot in WWII, where a guy over 30 was considered a dinosaur, and probably had the bulk of his flying hours in biplanes, but he does have name recognition and "box office" to propel the budget. Maybe we should give the flick a chance to be produced before we condemn it, unless of course, it only serves to provide an opportunity to bash America and Americans.

In that case, feel free, guys. Prove once again that Hollywood isn't the only place history is made up on the fly.

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" - LCOL Don Blakeslee, CO, 4th FG, March, 1944

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 07:05 PM
JerseyD wrote:
- It's no more ridiculous than an Australian playing
- an American Revolutionary War hero guys. You should
- all just relax

IIRC, Mel Gibson is born in the US.

<center>Qui vainc sans risque triomphe sans gloire.</center>
<center>http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/images/tempestv_t.jpg </center>

<center>Qui vainc sans risque triomphe sans gloire.</center>
<center>http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/images/tempestv_t.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:28 PM
tom cruise is a good actor hes one of my fav its the producers and people that mkae the film hes just playing a part but america did not win the war they tipped the balance with all the over allied countries you americas are a bunch of bigg headed *&%$&$& you need to accept that what you see in hollywood is not real the wars that have been american only were lost e.g. vietnam you lost that war no rewording or fancy shti will get you out of it
sorry i know most people here know the real history i am just ventin anger

unless you have certified, verified data and proof of this or have actually flown the planes that stop your whineing!

unless you have certified, verified data and proof of this or have actually flown the planes that stop your whineing!

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:51 PM
fiestapower wrote:
- tom cruise is a good actor hes one of my fav its the
- producers and people that mkae the film hes just
- playing a part ...

Risky business maybe .. but now halfpint has creative license within the scripts he chooses .. all he chose make him larger than life .. true test of an actor is to play average Joe .. and Tom would fail

- but america did not win the war they
- tipped the balance with all the over allied
- countries

Yeah .. all those other allied countries !

- you americas are a bunch of bigg headed
- *&%$&$&

Thats what makes us so endearing !! We earned it !!

- you need to accept that what you see in
- hollywood is not real

Safe bet most American realize harri-wood is not reality


- the wars that have been
- american only were lost e.g. vietnam you lost that
- war no rewording or fancy shti will get you out of
- it

Politicians dove the train on that one ... we kicked *** but had no goal

- sorry i know most people here know the real history
- i am just ventin anger

To what does your country of origin owe the US ?? enlighten me, and I can tell you how we have bailed you out somewhere in the past.

cc