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roybaty
09-28-2006, 07:17 PM
Okay, been away a while and thought I'd brush up offline. I have the PE2 addon, latest patches etc.

Now is it me or are the offline AI a bit smarter. Also does the P51D seem less capable?

I flew the P-51D against a Me-109G10 at low alt and could not catch him, or manuever with him. I flopped around like a fish in the boat.

The 109G10 AI kept BnZing me (which I was impressed with) but I couldn't catch him in a linear chase, he outlimbed me vertically AND maintained or increased in horizontal distance from me effortlessly.

Now, I don't recall the P51D being an "uberplane" but it was fast and had reasonable low speed manueverability, both of which seem different (read that 'gone').

Maybe it's just me. Okay that being said NO FIGHTING PLEASE. If ya'll are good 'n' cordial like I'll give out wings and beer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

roybaty
09-28-2006, 07:17 PM
Okay, been away a while and thought I'd brush up offline. I have the PE2 addon, latest patches etc.

Now is it me or are the offline AI a bit smarter. Also does the P51D seem less capable?

I flew the P-51D against a Me-109G10 at low alt and could not catch him, or manuever with him. I flopped around like a fish in the boat.

The 109G10 AI kept BnZing me (which I was impressed with) but I couldn't catch him in a linear chase, he outlimbed me vertically AND maintained or increased in horizontal distance from me effortlessly.

Now, I don't recall the P51D being an "uberplane" but it was fast and had reasonable low speed manueverability, both of which seem different (read that 'gone').

Maybe it's just me. Okay that being said NO FIGHTING PLEASE. If ya'll are good 'n' cordial like I'll give out wings and beer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

VW-IceFire
09-28-2006, 09:49 PM
Welcome to the new P-51....I find the nose bobbs alot in common manuevers and that its a generally unpleasant plane to fly. I wish it was more like the earlier days when it was a pure joy to fly it.

As for the G-10...its almost as fast as the P-51 (not quite but its closer than most) and the AI is pretty much perfect for managing their aircraft so they seem to get alot quite often.

Ernst_Rohr
09-28-2006, 10:15 PM
The 51 as it stands right now need a heck of a lot of constant trimming to get it to perform close to spec, and at low alt, its performance leaves a lot to be desired.

It sounds like you were running into the 100% perfect AI though. Unless your very familiar with your plane, and very good at engine management, its incredibly hard to catch an AI plane right now, since they fly right at the absolute limit of the planes cabablity.

FritzGryphon
09-28-2006, 10:16 PM
I don't think you'll find much help on the forum regarding this.

The best thing to do would be to research the performance characteristic in question, then compare it to ingame tests.

What I can comment on is the level acceleration from 350-500km/h. America's Hundred Thousand specifies a ~3.6 ft/s² rate IIRC, and I found a 4.1 ft/s² under the same conditions in game.

JG52Karaya-X
09-29-2006, 02:36 AM
P51 vs G10 pro and cons:

Topspeed: The P51 should outrun the G10 at sealevel but then again you were flying against the AI and ... well they cheat! The P51's speed advantage rises until ~4000m at which the Mustang is ~50km/h faster than the 109. After that it drops back again.

Climbrate: The G10 EASILY outclimbs the P51 and is one of the best climbers ingame.

Turnrate: The G10 will quite handily outturn you under ~400-450km/h because of its better power/weight and wing loading. However the Mustang has a far superior agility at speeds surpassing 450km/h meaning that the 109 will not be able to follow you in a tight turn.

Divespeed: The P51 should pick up speed faster in a dive than the G10.

Handling: IMHO the P51 is by far the nicer plane to handle because it does not experience any kind of torque-roll. Furthermore you can trim the rudder so you don't have to apply constant rudder force during navigation - on the other hand the 109 only has elevator trim and quite a load of torque which makes it quite difficult to handle.

roybaty
09-29-2006, 04:52 AM
Thanks for the responses.

About the climb I expected that, I used to fly 109s in a previous IL2 squad and a different sim. We always exploited the climbing cababilities of the 109 series http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

But like I said these AI were running away horizontally and climbing, and I swear the acceleration characteristics are different in the P-51d after the last coupla patches. The AI was set to average I believe. Aside from the turbo boost I was pleased with the apparent use of the BnZ tactic by the AI, it fought the way you should fight in a 109 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I'll learn to deal, but was just wondering if I'm smoking something or not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Bearcat99
09-29-2006, 11:54 PM
The thing with the P-51 ij this sim is that it doesnt hold it's e well.... which effects zoom climb... and you loose it quick in turns... the AI manages thier plane to a T.... with the P-51 it is unstable as you increase or decrease the throttle & pich even... so you have to keep it trimmed... I think this P-51 is the best one evr... although just for sheer UMP noting beats the very first one that came in a 2. something patch... That plane was a little too good.. needless to say that didnt last very long, but this one isnt bad. It could be better in some respects.... but it isnt bad....

VW-IceFire
09-30-2006, 08:18 AM
I think all of these othershorcomings would be just fine if the nose didn't bobble around so much.

roybaty
09-30-2006, 11:19 AM
Did they put flubber in the p-38j? I'm rediscovering this one and it out roles, out accelerate, out climbs, and out manuevers the p-51 from the same offline mission against the 109g10.

the 109g10 was meat on the table 1v1 offline. Of course the elevator compression issue is still an issue as it should be (and was in RL)

tigertalon
09-30-2006, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Karaya-X:
However the Mustang has a far superior agility at speeds surpassing 450km/h meaning that the 109 will not be able to follow you in a tight turn.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Still this is almost of no importance, since in a high speed turn P-51 will bleed all it's E in a matter of seconds only to allow G-10 to close in and chop it to pieces.

Reference: What's wrong with E retention thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif