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Jabout
04-02-2009, 05:39 AM
If in a scissors fight, should you use combat flaps?

Or in view of the fact you're wanting to build energy and flaps create drag, should you not use them?

I'm interested in what others reckon about this.

Jabout
04-02-2009, 05:39 AM
If in a scissors fight, should you use combat flaps?

Or in view of the fact you're wanting to build energy and flaps create drag, should you not use them?

I'm interested in what others reckon about this.

triad773
04-02-2009, 05:45 AM
Depends on the match.

I did a vid not so long ago in just such a subject. See here (http://video.yahoo.com/watch/1587380/5372585)

Long of the short of it, throw out all you got if it gets you behind the bugger http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Just my experience

Enjoy

danjama
04-02-2009, 06:17 AM
ill let flushy do the talking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...L_ZA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaMY47L_ZA&feature=related)

killersquad1960
04-02-2009, 06:47 AM
I use combat flaps I dont need a video to show me what they can do, Use combat flaps it does help!
Helps me so do what u want.

megalopsuche
04-02-2009, 08:09 AM
I'm assuming this is a *flat* scissors question:

In a scissors fight, the smaller turn radius wins. The goal is to get the bandit forward of your 3-9 line, so getting slow (but not too slow) is fine. Combat flaps are fine for a scissors fight, but I will go down to takeoff or landing flaps if that's what it takes to force an overshoot, combined with lots of rudder and decreased throttle. However, you have to be ready at any moment to raise the flaps and go back to full power.

Hope that helps.

Jabout
04-02-2009, 10:15 AM
Thanks for all the responses http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

I tend to use a bit of combat flap if I'm not winning.

But if I drop lots of flap and cut the power back too much I instinctively feel vulnerable and that in energy terms I'm at a disadvantage.

~S~

Ba5tard5word
04-02-2009, 11:23 AM
If I'm in a turn battle with an enemy that is being annoying and trying to fly slowly and get behind me, I'll point my nose up and put my flaps all the way down, it's a good way to drop behind him.

If you keep an eye on enemy AI planes they will usually use flaps when making hard turns.

K_Freddie
04-02-2009, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jabout:
I tend to use a bit of combat flap if I'm not winning. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Use it all the time... winning or not http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

toogame
04-02-2009, 08:47 PM
in a Scissors, use flaps in the turns no flaps in the straights is best

MOH_MADMAN
04-02-2009, 09:05 PM
In a 109 yes, but only when needed, and in short bursts, never sustained.

Madman

jamesblonde1979
04-03-2009, 03:02 AM
I would say to use combat flaps if you are beginning to lose too much height.

raaaid
04-03-2009, 07:13 AM
i think scissors depends on the plane

i can beat any better turning plane doing scissors with a 109 and you dont need flpas

na85
04-04-2009, 01:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
i think scissors depends on the plane

i can beat any better turning plane doing scissors with a 109 and you dont need flpas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bet you that I can beat you in a flat scissors if I fly an early war zero and you fly a 109. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tully__
04-04-2009, 04:07 AM
Flat scissors is more about roll rate than turn rate. The trick is to be turning in the opposite direction to the guy behind, you'll always force an overshoot if you can time this right.
In anything with a decent roll rate I can win a flat scissors without flaps provided I can keep track of where the bad guy is.

raaaid
04-04-2009, 05:34 AM
oh come on tully 190 has excellent roll rate but sucks at scissors(unless your talking high speed here)

109 excells at scissors cause you can do scissors at 200 kph while in the 190 youll go something like 300

the slowest scissors win,cough 109 cough

Segwin
04-04-2009, 05:56 AM
I'm usually in a turning fight always trying to gain advantage in turn rate or the bandit is going vertical with me behind him. I always try to stay on the 6.

Having said that I'm not sure how I would enter a scissors fight. It would seem the plane being attacked would be able to jink the other way quickly and lose the attacker.

As you can tell I haven't done much dog fighting.

To the Mods: I don't want to hijack the thread -move or delete if you wish. I wasn't sure if starting a new thread was appropriate.

raaaid
04-04-2009, 06:05 AM
for example myself in a k4 doing scissors versus a la 7 online with a quite competent pilot kept a 5 minute dogfight till he run out of fuel

the la7 outturns k4 greatly but k4 does better scissors

segwin the trick is always going opposite sense than your foe till he eventually overcrosses you and boom

jamesblonde1979
04-04-2009, 07:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
i think scissors depends on the plane

i can beat any better turning plane doing scissors with a 109 and you dont need flpas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bet you that I can beat you in a flat scissors if I fly an early war zero and you fly a 109. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know, the A6M has a great sustained turning rate but the 109 has far superior acceleration. A skillfully flown 109 might get the bounce on you. I have heard much about the Zero's vaunted manoeuverability but I am yet to be impressed.

As for the La-7 getting beaten by the K-4 in a flat scissors, that does seem highly dubious.

raaaid
04-04-2009, 07:17 AM
well actually the best plane of the game is k4 by far:

best climb rate, able to keep the slowest speed without stalling therefore best at scissors, best e retention, fastest in a dive, biggest cannons

you see is the most in many things, in fact isnt k4 olegs favourite? now wonder if that guy knows the game

edit:

if you dont belive a k4 beats a la7 on scissor think this:

linearly slowest plane while doing scissors wins, now k4 turns at 200 kph while la7 at 250,

i mean make a drawing of a plane with an open turning radius like the la7 and comapre it with a tight radius turning plane like the 109, the advantage on scissors are evident

jamesblonde1979
04-04-2009, 07:27 AM
Maybe you are right raaid but the La-7 is a hell of a lot more forgiving than the K-4.

raaaid
04-04-2009, 07:38 AM
what killed for me the fun of flying a k4 was the appearance of spit 25lbs since it climbs as well

before the spit i would atract a pray on my six slowly outclimb it and finish with a hammer head

the climb rate was so superior to anything i could even carry gunpods what made funny explosions

but since the 25lbs this doesnt work any more

and hell i dont like 190 hit and run techniques which are too effective online

jamesblonde1979
04-04-2009, 07:55 AM
I just consider the 25lbs to be a Mk XIV in disguise.

Try the D9 mate.

CRSutton
04-04-2009, 08:02 AM
Would it not be better for the higher energy fighter or the one with the highest energy at the moment to break off rather than get drawn into a sissors fight? That is, is it not a better idea to keep you energy advantage? I am not the most experienced of pilots.

jamesblonde1979
04-04-2009, 08:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CRSutton:
Would it not be better for the higher energy fighter or the one with the highest energy at the moment to break off rather than get drawn into a sissors fight? That is, is it not a better idea to keep you energy advantage? I am not the most experienced of pilots. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It depends on the magnitude of your advantage.

IE escaping from gun range.

If you get drawn into a scissors the you don't have a significant enough advantage.

BillSwagger
04-04-2009, 08:57 AM
I usually don't use flaps while scissoring but instead in a turn battle or if i need that extra lift with out putting the plane into a spin.
there are several different ways to slow down, flaps, throttle, skids, and hard turns.
You do all four at once, and you'll slow down fast, maybe too fast.

Segwin
04-04-2009, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CRSutton:
Would it not be better for the higher energy fighter or the one with the highest energy at the moment to break off rather than get drawn into a sissors fight? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


My thought exactly.

stalkervision
04-04-2009, 03:01 PM
scissors IMO is one of the worst acm moves to use. There is way too many opportunities for excellent snap shots by your opponent.

Tully__
04-04-2009, 06:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
scissors IMO is one of the worst acm moves to use. There is way too many opportunities for excellent snap shots by your opponent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly. It's a last ditch defensive tactic and if you're maintaining energy and situational awareness at optimum you should never need scissors....nevertheless I find it's good to know how to do it sometimes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stalkervision
04-04-2009, 08:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
scissors IMO is one of the worst acm moves to use. There is way too many opportunities for excellent snap shots by your opponent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly. It's a last ditch defensive tactic and if you're maintaining energy and situational awareness at optimum you should never need scissors....nevertheless I find it's good to know how to do it sometimes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe using this tactic on-line isn't a wise thing to do.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

off-line go for it.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

triad773
04-04-2009, 08:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
There is way too many opportunities for excellent snap shots by your opponent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, and I think that's what my vid demonstrates a page back. Whether a Spit should outmanoeuvre a Tony is open to the speculation of the chart monkeys IMHO, but when in a Spit, I got a nice snapshot on a slower aircraft with a long burst as it passed my aperture for a shot near the sun (in my eyes).

If you are given lemons, make lemonade http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif What I think I like about the scissors is that it's up for grabs sometimes.