PDA

View Full Version : Asymetrical wing machine gun recoil exaggerated?



roybaty
11-11-2005, 05:49 PM
Lets say you are in a p51D and 1 50 cal. in the port wing jams, is the wild yaw resulting from the uneven recoil a bit extreme or is it in line with historical/scientific data?

I can understand 2 or more causing such effects but only 1? As it is once a gun jams I might as well be outta ammo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

roybaty
11-11-2005, 05:49 PM
Lets say you are in a p51D and 1 50 cal. in the port wing jams, is the wild yaw resulting from the uneven recoil a bit extreme or is it in line with historical/scientific data?

I can understand 2 or more causing such effects but only 1? As it is once a gun jams I might as well be outta ammo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

Chuck_Older
11-11-2005, 06:08 PM
Hasn't it always been that way though? Personally I have no trouble with a heavy machine gun's recoil swaying a gunplatform that isn't anchored in space


But what I really want to know is how old you Pris and Leon are getting

stansdds
11-13-2005, 08:01 AM
I've never had the experience of flying in a WW II fighter (or any fighter for that matter) and firing guns or cannons, so I don't know if the yaw is accurate or not. It does seem a little excessive, but not having the real experience, I can't say if it's accurate.

VW-IceFire
11-13-2005, 08:31 AM
It has been mentioned by some P-51 veterans that a jammed machine gun usually did not cause much sway when firing...others have reported a slight sway or a moderate sway.

Spitfire pilots recalled that if the port or starbord cannon jammed aim was nearly impossible as the kick from the other cannon would put them off the target. Mind you the kick from a Hispano Mark II is probably quite a bit more than the kick from a M2 .50cal. But I don't know.

I would *think* that there would be some sway that would need compensating for. Just out of common sense....by how much is upto the physics majors.

3.JG51_BigBear
11-13-2005, 09:47 AM
The F4U-2 (night fighter version of the Corsair) was intentionally designed with two .50s in one wing and three in the other. Granted the Corsair is much larger than the Mustang but it still swings in game when it loses an MG.

Kocur_
11-13-2005, 12:13 PM
Hispano Mk.II recoil would be about three times greater than M2 recoil.

waffen-79
11-13-2005, 12:26 PM
same thing with 109's gunpods and 190 wing mounted mgs/cannons

3.JG51_BigBear
11-13-2005, 01:35 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if a 20MM cannon firing from only one wing would be enough to shake a small plane like a Spitfire or 109 off its aim, but it doesn't seem like a single non-functioning .50cal on planes as heavy as P-51s, F4Us, and P-47s should throw them off the way it does in game.

IL2-chuter
11-13-2005, 09:23 PM
Its not just the mass that's involved but the aerodynamic stability of the plane in question, consequently speed is a factor. And remember the guns aren't linked together so they constantly fire in unison, the 8th Air Force tested a P-51B's guns and found a difference between them spanning 200rpm.

Howard's Medal of Honor mission film where his guns gave up one by one due to jamming and running out of ammo doesn't show any adverse yaw when his last functioning gun is being used. Just my impression.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Kocur_
11-13-2005, 11:31 PM
M2 momentum: 880 x 0,043 = 37,41 kgm/s
Hispano Mk.II: 845 x 0,130 = 109,94kgm/s
MG151/20: 760 x 0,104 = 79kgm/s

And both M2 and MG151/20 are recoil operated, which reduces recoil a bit, while in Hispano bolt is locked stiffly to receiver and thus to the plane.

polak5
11-14-2005, 04:58 PM
And dont forget the big kicks on the Il2's when u get a cannon jammed.

Rattler68
11-15-2005, 11:38 AM
Just imagine holding a M2 Browning in 1 hand (if possible, Hercules!) 1 metre away from your body, and firing it. This would be the equivalent torque that an aircraft like the P-51 would experience if 1 mg were to be knocked out (and this is just for 1 shot: imagine 750-850 rpm!) The total momentum of the gun is still borne by the operator; it's just spread over more time than if the recoil did not absorb the force of the shot. Newton's Laws still apply: for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.