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View Full Version : SOW BoB - 30 minutes of navigation flight to reach England ?



Player_43
01-08-2010, 10:25 AM
If I take the example of a realistic server that will propose an air battle Red vs Blue !red are being located in England).

As there were no german bases in England, will the blue players have to make a 30 minutes flight to reach red bases ? Is that acceptable ? (5 min of nav flight in IL2 already makes me fall asleep ;-))

Player_43
01-08-2010, 10:25 AM
If I take the example of a realistic server that will propose an air battle Red vs Blue !red are being located in England).

As there were no german bases in England, will the blue players have to make a 30 minutes flight to reach red bases ? Is that acceptable ? (5 min of nav flight in IL2 already makes me fall asleep ;-))

stalkervision
01-08-2010, 10:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Player_43:
If I take the example of a realistic server that will propose an air battle Red vs Blue !red are being located in England).

As there were no german bases in England, will the blue players have to make a 30 minutes flight to reach red bases ? Is that acceptable ? (5 min of nav flight in IL2 already makes me fall asleep ;-)) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

good question. Much better then a realistic server for that u-boat game that is coming out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Metatron_123
01-08-2010, 11:09 AM
Time compression?

Insuber
01-08-2010, 11:10 AM
AFAIK the maps in Il2 are 2/3 of the actual ones, I assume that there will be a similar trick in BoB ... I exclude that Oleg will oblige people to fly 30 mins to reach the targets, there is already Microsoft's FS in this business ...


Bye,
Ins

Frankthetank36
01-08-2010, 11:16 AM
Could use an airstart, though that wouldn't really help you get back to base any sooner.

Ba5tard5word
01-08-2010, 11:37 AM
IIRC 109 pilots had to spend something like 30 minutes to get to London, had about 5 minutes of flying time, then had to fly back to base before running out of fuel. Or something like that.

JG53Frankyboy
01-08-2010, 11:52 AM
the distance from Cap Gris-Nez to english soil is shorter than the distances between bases onmost dogfightservers nowadays.
not all BoB fighting is about flying to London.............

Chivas
01-08-2010, 12:24 PM
I'm almost positive the BOB map will be 1;1. This will make for very realistic missions.

That said there will be plenty of OPTIONS (air starts, dogfight maps, time compression,etc,) for gamers to manipulate the scenario to suit quick and dirty dogfighting.

stalkervision
01-08-2010, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
I'm almost positive the BOB map will be 1;1. This will make for very realistic missions.

That said there will be plenty of OPTIONS (air starts, dogfight maps, time compression,etc,) for gamers to manipulate the scenario to suit quick and dirty dogfighting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

very true and nothing like nursing a wounded 109 or one nearly out of fuel for home while RAF spits are on your tail. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

do you know I recently read that the RAF actually WAITED till the 109's were nearly out of fuel to go after them in many instances. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Xiolablu3
01-08-2010, 12:52 PM
Air start with landing strip out to sea.

stalkervision
01-08-2010, 12:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Air start with landing strip out to sea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thankfully the German air sea rescue service was excellent during this battle. Wonder if oleg will model those specialized aircraft?

Ba5tard5word
01-08-2010, 01:24 PM
Hopefully there will be a lot of options so I can create a massive Graf Zeppelin carrier fleet with carrier-based 109's.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Frankthetank36
01-08-2010, 01:28 PM
To all the guys saying time compression: not exactly possible online.

wolf-striked
01-08-2010, 01:28 PM
OMG!!! Are we there yet???? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

M_Gunz
01-08-2010, 01:41 PM
30 minutes to London, how many to Action? Half that?

How many think that the only play mode will be Campaign? Let's see some hands!
I you have one bucket with 5 gallons of water and another bucket with 2 gallons of water, how many buckets do you have?

JG52Uther
01-08-2010, 02:09 PM
I want it to be a sim,not an arcade game,so I will happily spend 30 minutes crossing the channel.and the hour before in a He111/Ju88/Ju87 climbing to height and forming up with the escort.
One mission a night would be fine,as long as it was realistic enough for me.
I am sure all options will be catered for by Oleg!

Urufu_Shinjiro
01-08-2010, 02:23 PM
Oleg says 1:1, but of course smaller online maps and other options for those not wanting full size.

BillSwagger
01-08-2010, 02:41 PM
I've been generating some heafty missions with this new MDS mod and some of the maps have me flying over an hour. I know flying around aimlessly for minutes on end can be frusterating but i've been incorporating the radar into the missions which means your map actually plots where potential threats are.

I have an Italy map mission that covers from Sardinia to Milano and south of Palermo. The misson covers P-47/B-17 strikes from the island to bridges in Milano. The trip takes 20-30 minutes but there are air starts of 109s and fw190s along the way. Then after the escort roll is over, the P-47s hit roads and strafe supply convoys as they head south to land.
Meanwhile the Italian/Luftwaffe mission involves hitting a radar ship stationed in the bay, guarded by seafires and hurricanes. If they hit the radar it will make it much easier to defend the bridges the Allied forces are targeting.


The idea is to offer variety, but i think with such a large map it would take 80 pluss players to be interesting. With airstarts people can also jump into the game and be minutes from action if its set up properly.

It had me thinking that it would be cool to have a long map server but i'm not sure how many people would be attracted to that sort of thing being that most people like the quick furball stuff.

wolf-striked
01-08-2010, 02:47 PM
Would love to hear Oleg's idea on dogfight mode over channel.

AWL_Spinner
01-08-2010, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Would love to hear Oleg's idea on dogfight mode over channel. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dover - Calais.

20 miles at 400mph = 3 minutes. Halve that to meet halfway at sea level!


http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Harry_Flashman/calais.png

thefruitbat
01-08-2010, 03:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Would love to hear Oleg's idea on dogfight mode over channel. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dover - Calais. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1

TheGrunch
01-08-2010, 04:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillSwagger:
I've been generating some heafty missions with this new MDS mod and some of the maps have me flying over an hour. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Would you mind uploading some of those missions to Mission4Today, Bill? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm loving the few MDS missions that are knocking around at the moment, but I'm not much of a mission maker myself.

On topic, as hard as it may be to believe, there is more to England than London.

Choctaw111
01-08-2010, 05:05 PM
With the level of realism that SoW:BoB is going to offer, I don't think I will mind a 30 minute flight to get over England.
Some may call it boring, but if you have ever been in a combat situation, MOST of it is boring.
Even then, I don't think the flight to England will be all that bad. You know that it's going to hit the fan when you get there.
Perhaps a little in game adrenaline before you even reach the target, knowing what will soon happen.

Eow_TK
01-08-2010, 05:50 PM
If you had enough live players flying all the planes, and were using realistic navigation methods, I think there would be plenty to do on your flight. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

major_setback
01-08-2010, 06:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AWL_Spinner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Would love to hear Oleg's idea on dogfight mode over channel. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Dover - Calais.

20 miles at 400mph = 3 minutes. Halve that to meet halfway at sea level!


http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o63/Harry_Flashman/calais.png </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1
For those wanting a quick fight there will be no time problem...just take off and go straight there without forming up and you'll be in the action in no time.

Rjel
01-08-2010, 07:39 PM
It's funny how we each have a different view of what is acceptable reality in flight sims. I might be bored too by long uneventful flights although I have enjoyed flying formation with human pilots online in the past. But it seems like one persons enjoyable must have realistic option is another persons painfully want to get to the action quicker complaint.

AndyJWest
01-08-2010, 08:09 PM
Personally, I think expecting SoW:BoB to support the sort of furball server that IL-2 can is missing the point, even if it is capable of doing so. I don't want evenly-balanced one-on-one dogfights, I want a Battle of Britain simulation, where the objectives of the two sides are different, the tactical situation is unmatched, and 'scoring points' is less important than affecting the overall outcome of the battle. Oleg has already said he will change the scoring system, and hopefully this will make for more realistic tactics. If you fly an Emil for the Luftwaffe, you should expect to have to escort bombers, not go galavanting around looking for a dual with a lone Spit. I doubt that the sim will go quite as far as having a virtual Hermann Goering to order you to fly close formation with the bombers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, but you should lose points if your bombers are shot down: that is why you are there in the first place.

Likewise, if you are flying RAF, deserting your squadron to engage a straggler, rather than pressing an attack on the enemy formation, ought to result in a lower score. Maybe the points system won't be that clever, but wait and see...

Choctaw111
01-08-2010, 08:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rjel:
It's funny how we each have a different view of what is acceptable reality in flight sims. I might be bored too by long uneventful flights although I have enjoyed flying formation with human pilots online in the past. But it seems like one persons enjoyable must have realistic option is another persons painfully want to get to the action quicker complaint. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anyone who has flown Hyperlobby for a while can attest to the boredom at times.
An hour or more of flying around and not seeing anything to shoot at, not even a friendly until you get near your base.
As good as Il2 is, there just isn't quite enough going on to alleviate the boredom on an hour plus flight with nothing going on.
From what I have seen of SoW:BoB, there are just so many more realistic things going on that there will be plenty to look at, such as real time shadows and so much more.
I can see my SA going out the window at first by just admiring the pit and new special effects.
I believe that a hour of uneventful flying in BoB will be anything but boring.

TooCooL34
01-09-2010, 12:42 AM
Frankly, I've been worried about this matter.
For 109 flyers, considering early 109 models that were flown at BOB era, short on fuel & short on ammo condition is real anti-gaming features.

Well, it's a game anyway and fuel & ammo count of birds at the era is almost no fun not to mention mid to late warbirds.

xTHRUDx
01-09-2010, 01:28 AM
you have all brought up the flight sim dev's delima. who to build for or how to build for all 3 types

player type 1: Crimsion skies, short attention span, A.D.D., Press go and the screen loads an enemy in my sights already. Icons and boxes that tell you to "shoot this" and "don't shoot that"

Player type 2: a half mix of type 1 and 3.

player type 3; must go thru correct start up sequence, taxi clearance, takeoff clearance, form up, navigate to target, maintain correct engine management, save the engine, not flying at 98% to 110% all the time, etc..

because of these different player types, you will see servers that reflect these types of players just as you find now in the IL-2 community.

to some it's game, to some it's a sim. You'll get out of it what your put into it.

SeaFireLIV
01-09-2010, 02:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TooCooL34:
Frankly, I've been worried about this matter.
For 109 flyers, considering early 109 models that were flown at BOB era, short on fuel & short on ammo condition is real anti-gaming features.

Well, it's a game anyway and fuel & ammo count of birds at the era is almost no fun not to mention mid to late warbirds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see, so all those luftwaffe wannabes now cry when they find they`ll have to fly for a while to reach England.

Bah! i remeber doing an online flight where I flew an IL2 from one part of the Crimea to the other and it took about an hour by the time we reached our objective! Of course half the crew quit out on the 1st 5th of the journey (these were not squad m8s, but jump in onliners who didn`t read the brief or map!). That was a flight of endurance I can tell you.

Personally I`d have no trouble (if I was Luftwaffe inclined) to form up and fly that long to get to England.

No one needs worry though, Oleg has proven over the years that he considers EVERYONE and provides options. There will always be a short version whether in smaller sizes of maps, or more likely short cut jumps you can start from in the air\artificial land.

Feathered_IV
01-09-2010, 02:49 AM
Nub servers will stick airstrip objects on the nearest possible point of each coast. Then each side can scramble both 109's and Spit's from either side (the blue team's spits can be identified by their enormous "JG27_OMFG+Didy0u everseealong3r_f*kkingsigth@anThis?_Priller" icons. The allied teams 109's can be identified by similarly ponderous titles. Only they will be in red. The lufties will be bombing the same radar installation (the nearest one) over and over again for the next five years until some sort of long-promised expansion comes out. No one will fly the Blenheim because all the targets are too far away and Nazi Hurricanes keep crashing into them.

KRISTORF
01-09-2010, 03:38 AM
I thought most of the 'action' took place over Kent/South Coast anyway, so no great time needed for near instant action.

TheGrunch
01-09-2010, 03:46 AM
Online wars are going to be more than difficult for the reds, I bet. I don't think that the blue team are going to be so strategically erratic as the Luftwaffe. No close escort, no switching away from bombing airfields. Radar installations bombed, then the airfields hammered endlessly. Bugger.

thefruitbat
01-09-2010, 04:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AndyJWest:
Personally, I think expecting SoW:BoB to support the sort of furball server that IL-2 can is missing the point, even if it is capable of doing so. I don't want evenly-balanced one-on-one dogfights, I want a Battle of Britain simulation, where the objectives of the two sides are different, the tactical situation is unmatched, and 'scoring points' is less important than affecting the overall outcome of the battle. Oleg has already said he will change the scoring system, and hopefully this will make for more realistic tactics. If you fly an Emil for the Luftwaffe, you should expect to have to escort bombers, not go galavanting around looking for a dual with a lone Spit. I doubt that the sim will go quite as far as having a virtual Hermann Goering to order you to fly close formation with the bombers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, but you should lose points if your bombers are shot down: that is why you are there in the first place.

Likewise, if you are flying RAF, deserting your squadron to engage a straggler, rather than pressing an attack on the enemy formation, ought to result in a lower score. Maybe the points system won't be that clever, but wait and see... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are living in fantasy land.

BillSwagger
01-09-2010, 05:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheGrunch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillSwagger:
I've been generating some heafty missions with this new MDS mod and some of the maps have me flying over an hour. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Would you mind uploading some of those missions to Mission4Today, Bill? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm loving the few MDS missions that are knocking around at the moment, but I'm not much of a mission maker myself.

On topic, as hard as it may be to believe, there is more to England than London. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll post it at M4T once i've fine tuned it. The DF map is done, but for a coop or single mission i still need to work with the AI routes.

I think that this sim is capable of providing entertainment for all player types even on one map.
Its just a matter of setting up mission objectives so that people who want to fly into action right away will have mission objectives that put them into action right away. Typically escort and bomber missions are much longer, but you can litter their route with air starts from the opposing team making it much more interesting for everyone. The great thing about the MDS mod is that you can now limit the amount of planes coming from a particular spawn point so the mission doesn't become unbalanced.

There are a number of ways to control how players behave in relation to mission objectives. If you want 109s to stick to their pattern and protect bombers, make that the mission objective of the Red team. If London is bombed, blue wins, if blue loses x amount of bombers, red wins. If a 109 chooses to go spit hunting instead, the map could be rolled before he even finds a fight. You have to think that if you are protecting bombers, and the other teams objective is to destroy them, then odds are you are going to see some action and in decent time since both sides are heading towards each other.

bill

AndyJWest
01-09-2010, 07:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AndyJWest:
Personally, I think expecting SoW:BoB to support the sort of furball server that IL-2 can is missing the point, even if it is capable of doing so. I don't want evenly-balanced one-on-one dogfights, I want a Battle of Britain simulation, where the objectives of the two sides are different, the tactical situation is unmatched, and 'scoring points' is less important than affecting the overall outcome of the battle. Oleg has already said he will change the scoring system, and hopefully this will make for more realistic tactics. If you fly an Emil for the Luftwaffe, you should expect to have to escort bombers, not go galavanting around looking for a dual with a lone Spit. I doubt that the sim will go quite as far as having a virtual Hermann Goering to order you to fly close formation with the bombers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, but you should lose points if your bombers are shot down: that is why you are there in the first place.

Likewise, if you are flying RAF, deserting your squadron to engage a straggler, rather than pressing an attack on the enemy formation, ought to result in a lower score. Maybe the points system won't be that clever, but wait and see... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are living in fantasy land. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't live there, I just visit occasionally. Isn't the very idea of recreating WWII on a computer fantasy anyway?

With any luck, the sort of fine control over maps/servers that BillSwagger writes about will be easier in SoW:BoB too. Ideally, it should be possible for scoring to be entirely user-defined. Maybe it won't start out that way, but with a system designed for expandability, an add-on might be worth doing.

thefruitbat
01-09-2010, 09:05 AM
How it pan's out will be largly decided by how people want to fly online.

Look at the online situation now, some people want short into action furball servers, some want longer historical missions, excatly the same will occur with SoW.

So thats what you will see...

VW-IceFire
01-09-2010, 09:08 AM
Oleg said there would be two main maps. A proper historical map and then another that was similar but designed for dogfights. I assume that the dogfights map would be either reduced in scale or setup to allow for reduced flight times.

Hopefully we have the reappearance of Dogfight1 through 5 style maps which are more fun than meaning to be something specific.

Remember... some people love to spend 30 minutes setting up bomber formations and climbing to altitude to set up for one bomb run. Other people want to take off and be in the action in under a minute. Nobody is wrong here... just have different preferences and it should be easy enough to accommodate them all.

rnzoli
01-09-2010, 09:17 AM
The best will be the possibility that if one player dies, another can take his place, the downed aircraft is repaied, rearmed & reloaded instantly and throw into the air with +1000m and +300 km/h in the bag.

Yes, you might actually see an enemy immediately in front of you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

People will buy it like candy and Oleg becomes a rich man.

doogerie
01-09-2010, 01:56 PM
there ape ports dover,Fokstone,Portsmouth and southapton alos ciotes inland like Reading I am Hoping to have a tussel over where my house now stands it used to be a POW camp for german piolts also Easlieagh as thats where the Spit was devloped really guys reach for the sky and first light will give you an idear of wht we brit did on ur own befor the USA (thanks guys )entered the war

ScarsdaleJack
01-09-2010, 02:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Player_43:
If I take the example of a realistic server that will propose an air battle Red vs Blue !red are being located in England).

As there were no german bases in England, will the blue players have to make a 30 minutes flight to reach red bases ? Is that acceptable ? (5 min of nav flight in IL2 already makes me fall asleep ;-)) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you want a dogfight server over an English map, or do you want the Battle of Britain?

Could be that if 5 min of nav bores you, historical combat flight sims are not really your cup of tea. The strategic and tactical necessities of those 30 min flights are a rather critical element of the Battle of Britain

Insuber
01-09-2010, 03:38 PM
IMHO, SoW will be soon expanded to other theaters, if sales go well.
I'm rather spoiled by the variety of maps and planes found nowadays in Il-2, and I believe that it will be paramount also for the success of this sim not to limit it to a 4 months period and a single map.

Just my 2 cents.

Insuber

grifter2u
01-09-2010, 08:44 PM
even on the longer coop flights there will be one major new good factor in BoB, if you "die" in one plane you are flying you dont have to wait for the whole mission to finish 2 hrs later before you can fly again and rejoin. under oleg's new system he has confirmed that when "killed" you can hop into a friendly AI plane and take the controls, or become a crew member on a multi crew aircraft (gunner, copilot, navigator etc). this will be available in campaigns missions to. so the big disadvantage of long rejoin wait times in coop flights is gone, no more long waiting before you can rejoin on the next flight (this will be an on/off option in the server preferences settings).

something similar might be available in dogfight, if you get killed in your own aircraft and cant be bothered waiting to fly to the enemy again, maybe you can hop aboard a multicrew aircraft and act as gunner (mind you i wouldnt really want any 14 yo with a short attention span to become a gunner on your aircraft, in the heat of battle he might have gone off to watch some tv without telling you, or his mum told him to do his homework or clean the yard)

TheGrunch
01-10-2010, 12:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillSwagger:
I'll post it at M4T once i've fine tuned it. The DF map is done, but for a coop or single mission i still need to work with the AI routes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Excellent!

SeaFireLIV
01-10-2010, 02:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Insuber:
IMHO, SoW will be soon expanded to other theaters, if sales go well.
I'm rather spoiled by the variety of maps and planes found nowadays in Il-2, and I believe that it will be paramount also for the success of this sim not to limit it to a 4 months period and a single map.

Just my 2 cents.

Insuber </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


SOW will seem quite `thin` with its planeset and theatre when you consider the multiple theatres and multitude of aircraft that IL2 has. I doubt SOW will ever truly have the impact that IL2 did for me. It is not just a very strong foundation of a sim, but I actually learned more about aircraft, WW2 and aerodynamics than I could ever have learned any where else. This has been lasting and useful information that I have actually applied to real life sometimes.

This sim actually educated me, giving me, and leading to, lasting knowledge and it`s why I prize IL2 above all games because of that.
SOW won`t be able to do that to the same degree.

Rjel
01-10-2010, 08:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by grifter2u:
... if you "die" in one plane you are flying you dont have to wait for the whole mission to finish 2 hrs later before you can fly again and rejoin. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can understand the idea of wanting to get back in the fight and not just sit around waiting for the next mission. But to me, that has always been one of the biggest problems in flying sims and the biggest immersion killer. There isn't any true penalty for your virtual death so most everyone does things like continuing a fight long after common sense says it's time to go home. That is something real life pilots would never do if they wanted to live. I think the only thing close to reality are the handful of online wars I've flown in where your virtual persona died and you lost your stats.

Edited for spelling

stalkervision
01-10-2010, 08:54 AM
I feel SOW will disappoint quite a few that need a whole lot of different theaters and loads of different aircraft to operate in.

LEBillfish
01-10-2010, 09:37 AM
Well the OP brings up a good point (though I disagree for "myself" with it), in that the average, my guess 95% of all online players, and perhaps 50% of offline have absolutly no interest in realistic flight times.

Now I like going through all that...In fact, I have no qualms about spending an entire evening on one mission......How'd the saying go? "4 hours of anxious anticipation deadened by oppressive boredom for 5 minutes of sheer terror and if lucky 4 hours of exhausted relief and boredom to get home".

Yet in that most don't it brings up the value of vast maps online. Personally I disagree with the concept of shrinking the map down in scale to reduce flight times as if they won't fly a full scale the full flight, 3/4 scale or even half will not make that much difference so won't do that either........Yet what does make a difference is the massive load a large map can place on a PC especially once populated....So to that end everyone loses.

To my thinking, I say make the full scale map publish it, and along with it however many sections of it....IOW, you might break up a large map into 8 smaller ones ALONG with the large.

Now I'm no map maker here so I can yap on all I want yet it means nothing, my voice only counting when I do the work and make the effort....Never the less I believe that is the way to suit the masses.......Though have no concept of what it would take to make that happen.

K2

Outlaw---
01-10-2010, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Well the OP brings up a good point (though I disagree for "myself" with it), in that the average, my guess 95% of all online players, and perhaps 50% of offline have absolutly no interest in realistic flight times.

Now I like going through all that...In fact, I have no qualms about spending an entire evening on one mission......How'd the saying go? "4 hours of anxious anticipation deadened by oppressive boredom for 5 minutes of sheer terror and if lucky 4 hours of exhausted relief and boredom to get home".
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1000% to this one BF.

Rant On...

I threw together a quick and dirty dedicated coop server similar to rz's in the hopes that it would attract some attention but it got nothing. Mission starts were at the top of the hour every hour with missions lasting a maximum of 50 minutes with 10 minutes start/brief time in between. Only 2 people ever joined after reading the post I made on the forums here and both complained that they couldn't figure out how to start the mission. This despite the fact that the post clearly stated how the system worked and that the goal of the server was to provide more realistic game play and GUARANTEE action if you followed the flight plan.

As I said, there was no interest at all. RZ's dedicated co-op server has more interest but it is still very light. For all intents and purposes, 0% of the online community cares about anything but instant action (note that I use the term "instant" here in a relative sense - some players are more instant than others).

I was very disappointed.

Rant Off.

--Outlaw.

Chivas
01-10-2010, 02:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
I feel SOW will disappoint quite a few that need a whole lot of different theaters and loads of different aircraft to operate in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your right it may disappoint a few people that think SOW is just the Battle of Britain. As you know SOW BOB is just the start of a new world war series.

The SOW series will expand to all theaters and aircraft. I have no doubt it will expand atleast to the extent of the IL-2 series, especially with mods being welcome from the start, with mod tools supplied by the developer.

SOW could also go well beyond the IL-2 series as it will also have the capability of expanding player control to ships, tanks, etc.

All this of course if the BOB sells well enough to warrant continued work on the series. This is the part where I don't get players who won't buy the sim until their favorite aircraft of theater is released. They definitely won't get their favorite aircraft if the series dies due to lack of sales.

doogerie
01-11-2010, 06:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
players who won't buy the sim until their favorite aircraft of theater is released. They definitely won't get their favorite aircraft if the series dies due to lack of sales. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is very true but remeber that the BOB is a very populer Conflictand added to that the Pits are very populer aircraft one that assume will be one of the main aircraft in ths perticuler sim a bit like the IL2's were in IL2 peopl love thsi conflict and the aircaft that faught in it I don't thil we have anything to worry about.

csThor
01-11-2010, 09:11 AM
Fact is the overwhelming majority of the players wouldn't know history if it came into their room and bit them in the @rse. This kind of player just doesn't want instant action but instant gratification, some kind of ace-o-matic if you will. They hardly look past the same old, same old types of late war crates. Try to set up a historical mission with historical planesets and targets which either don't include the ever-present fighter bombers or which require different tactics than lemming's galore (endless string of fighter-bombers) and they'll mope and cry and accuse you of being biased.

The times of serious history-focused flying are long gone. The only ones left are the "tired old dogs" and the attention span - challenged kiddies. I gave up online flying long ago. Offline ain't the holy grail, either, but at least the AI will fly whatever I give it and it won't b*tch about it in some message board. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

JG53Frankyboy
01-11-2010, 09:56 AM
anyway, as already mentioned:
the distance between historical bases in england and the continent around the street of dover is so short that even the biggest aircombat hillbilly will be happy with that map to make a dogfightmap of his taste............

stalkervision
01-11-2010, 10:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
I feel SOW will disappoint quite a few that need a whole lot of different theaters and loads of different aircraft to operate in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your right it may disappoint a few people that think SOW is just the Battle of Britain. As you know SOW BOB is just the start of a new world war series.

The SOW series will expand to all theaters and aircraft. I have no doubt it will expand atleast to the extent of the IL-2 series, especially with mods being welcome from the start, with mod tools supplied by the developer.

SOW could also go well beyond the IL-2 series as it will also have the capability of expanding player control to ships, tanks, etc.

All this of course if the BOB sells well enough to warrant continued work on the series. This is the part where I don't get players who won't buy the sim until their favorite aircraft of theater is released. They definitely won't get their favorite aircraft if the series dies due to lack of sales. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I should have pointed that to the BOB/SOW series.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif