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View Full Version : Released: Multi-Throttle Support for IL-2



MikkOwl
01-19-2010, 12:18 PM
This is obviously not just about throttles, it has grown to feature a myriad of functions.

VERSION 4.0 FEATURES:

- G940 button LED support! Let there be (red, yellow and green) light.
- Any controller axis assigned to control any engine, with the same accuracy as default IL-2 (0% - 120%).
- Dual Prop pitch support.
- Trim tweaking - can limit the range of trim (all IL-2 planes have the same universal, very large trim range, which is mostly not needed, with the exception of elevator trim) and off-set the center of the trim from center (most planes mostly ever use the rudder trim range in one direction from center, leaving the other half of our trim controllers wasted, meaning more touchy overly sensitive trimming)
- Enable toe brakes to function on rudder pedals that have them. With differential braking.
- Start/stop and feather buttons for each seperate engine.
- 'reversal bug' removal from throttle and trims of G940.
- Works online (some people were concerned - only the instrument reading part of device link does not work in multi-player)
- Works with TrackIR 5 (some people were concerned)
- 100% Mod compitable.
- (Radiator on axis support.. though only for the persistant)
- Graphical user interface SETUP program (normally no one would care, but compared to what was before, that is a really huge step forward )

You can ignore any virus/malware warnings - false alarm. It comes bundled with "Netcat", nc.exe, an old and proven network utility, that has by some evil people been used as a trojan (if using it in a certain way). Because of that and that it can open network ports I suppose some anti-programs can react to it. Netcat is necessary to establish the link to IL-2's "device link", even though it is just inside the computer. You can read about netcat on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netcat

Download link to version 4.0:
http://hem.bredband.net/mikko....e_4.0_by_MikkOwl.zip (http://hem.bredband.net/mikko.artist/Multi_Throttle_4.0_by_MikkOwl.zip)

FREE SOFTWARE: If you found my work to be of good use to you and that it enhances your enjoyment with IL-2 and the hardware you bought, consider donating what you think it is worth to you through PayPal, adressed to "mikko.artist@bredband.net". I share my work freely with everyone, but I too need to make a living. I worked very hard and put a lot of time into this software, going far out of my way writing the code, the documentation, endless hours of testing features that never work right until several dozen adjustments are made).

MikkOwl
01-19-2010, 12:18 PM
This is obviously not just about throttles, it has grown to feature a myriad of functions.

VERSION 4.0 FEATURES:

- G940 button LED support! Let there be (red, yellow and green) light.
- Any controller axis assigned to control any engine, with the same accuracy as default IL-2 (0% - 120%).
- Dual Prop pitch support.
- Trim tweaking - can limit the range of trim (all IL-2 planes have the same universal, very large trim range, which is mostly not needed, with the exception of elevator trim) and off-set the center of the trim from center (most planes mostly ever use the rudder trim range in one direction from center, leaving the other half of our trim controllers wasted, meaning more touchy overly sensitive trimming)
- Enable toe brakes to function on rudder pedals that have them. With differential braking.
- Start/stop and feather buttons for each seperate engine.
- 'reversal bug' removal from throttle and trims of G940.
- Works online (some people were concerned - only the instrument reading part of device link does not work in multi-player)
- Works with TrackIR 5 (some people were concerned)
- 100% Mod compitable.
- (Radiator on axis support.. though only for the persistant)
- Graphical user interface SETUP program (normally no one would care, but compared to what was before, that is a really huge step forward )

You can ignore any virus/malware warnings - false alarm. It comes bundled with "Netcat", nc.exe, an old and proven network utility, that has by some evil people been used as a trojan (if using it in a certain way). Because of that and that it can open network ports I suppose some anti-programs can react to it. Netcat is necessary to establish the link to IL-2's "device link", even though it is just inside the computer. You can read about netcat on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netcat

Download link to version 4.0:
http://hem.bredband.net/mikko....e_4.0_by_MikkOwl.zip (http://hem.bredband.net/mikko.artist/Multi_Throttle_4.0_by_MikkOwl.zip)

FREE SOFTWARE: If you found my work to be of good use to you and that it enhances your enjoyment with IL-2 and the hardware you bought, consider donating what you think it is worth to you through PayPal, adressed to "mikko.artist@bredband.net". I share my work freely with everyone, but I too need to make a living. I worked very hard and put a lot of time into this software, going far out of my way writing the code, the documentation, endless hours of testing features that never work right until several dozen adjustments are made).

Stiletto-
01-19-2010, 12:26 PM
Sweet! I bet this would be wicked fun on twin engine aircraft like the P-38.

MikkOwl
01-19-2010, 12:36 PM
Yeah, it is! I can no longer leave the cockpits of multi-engined planes. Even started flying the Junkers 88, Pe-2, and the heavier stuff. The P-38 is by far the most agile of them all, but the Pe-2 and Pe-3 have amazing cockpits. The Bf 110 G-4 is my favourite, it's just.. Evil. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The Me-262 feels totally different to fly from the runway now for some reason.

It's the same with all the planes. It feels like there's a mechanical link between the two throttles and the engines, bringing one closer to the 'real cockpit' experience somehow. Before I knew it wasn't quite as it should.

Only problem now is - how do I learn to manipulate twin engined planes properly (apart from turning on the ground with the engines instead of rudders)? I have tried to find guides but haven't found any what so ever.

Urufu_Shinjiro
01-19-2010, 03:34 PM
Cool, there was another project out there called Throttle that used devicelink to have direct control of the engines with analog axis, but that project is now defunct as far as I can tell.

Throttle for Il2 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2741045185/p/1)

Though if you look at the last post he seems willing to share his work if you're interested:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Hi, things haven't been to bad. As mentioned in an earlier post I have been having Perrin Treatment for CFS over the last few months and I feel better and in a lot less pain.

My software development time is taken up with writing software for http://www.helicopter-simulators.com/. This is a consequence of my FCIProject and Throttle work. All my time is taken up on this work now and this is why I can't support Throttle.

If anyone really is interested in further developing Throttle I would be happy to supply the Java source code. I can be contacted at ge-tec 'at' ge-tec.co.uk. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Romanator21
01-19-2010, 04:44 PM
I suppose you can use asymmetric thrust to help turn, which is apparently what P-38 pilots did.

One feature of most dual engines is the ability to feather the props, so if one dies, you can coast on the other without as much yaw.

Frankthetank36
01-19-2010, 05:02 PM
My CH TQ has been waiting for something like this for a while (couldn't figure out how to get Throttle for Il2 to work). Do you get control over the individual engine mixture and prop pitch too or just the throttle?

MikkOwl
01-20-2010, 12:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
Cool, there was another project out there called Throttle that used devicelink to have direct control of the engines with analog axis, but that project is now defunct as far as I can tell.

Throttle for Il2 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2741045185/p/1)

Though if you look at the last post he seems willing to share his work if you're interested </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I downloaded and tried out "Throttle" before going down this path. It did not work with any of my devices. Also, I have no clue how to program in Java (those things are a bit above my head at this point), thus I did not try to continue his work.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Romanator21:
I suppose you can use asymmetric thrust to help turn, which is apparently what P-38 pilots did.

One feature of most dual engines is the ability to feather the props, so if one dies, you can coast on the other without as much yaw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is in fact the only little thing I have found on it so far - that **** Bong, a P-38 ace, is said to have used it, as well as someone else whose memoirs I read (I can't recall his name, but he went on a mission with three others to fly straight over the Luftwaffe main airfield in the North Africa theater of war to do a photo recce, only to come in over a lake with dozens of He-52's just about to land and tons of Bf-109 escorts circling higher above. Several of them shot down some He-52's, but then the 109's got all the other P-38's in his group and they chased him around for something like 40 minutes straight (imagine doing 'guns defense' for 40 mins) until they ran out of fuel enough to have to return. He eventually survived. He said he figured out some way of using it when turning very hard, as the chasers had to counter their prop torque while he then did not. Hmmm.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
My CH TQ has been waiting for something like this for a while (couldn't figure out how to get Throttle for Il2 to work). Do you get control over the individual engine mixture and prop pitch too or just the throttle? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Get control over the throttles only. There's some very buggy behaviour in IL-2 that copies ALL the settings of one engine to another (except feather) when selecting another engine. Example: you fly with both engines at 100%, prop pitch 100%. You select right engine, set prop pitch to 50% and throttle to 50%. Upon selecting the left engine, it IMMEDIATELY takes on all the settings of the right (i.e. it jumps down straight to 50% throttle and prop pitch). I have not tried fuel mixture yet but I will look into it. A real let down to find out that crappy stuff about prop pitch I tell you, because I did implement this feature only to have my levers move all over the place when making changes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

When making a movement change at the same time as selecting a new engine, as this program does, the new movement code overrides it's attempt to copy the setting from the last engine selected, so there isn't any problems.

The next best thing I could think of is to at least make use of individual engine start/stop buttons and individual feather buttons. That way you can do the most important stuff in bombers and twins - feather and turn them off, and have them stay that way despite moving the other engines around. I suppose fire extinguisher for each engine is also relevant for some then, hmm. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (It does feel 'awesome' to start each engine with it's own ignition button on the G940 throttle base (colored led buttons).. It's as if it was meant to be that way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). I have that for myself already, but have yet to make it work with user customized buttons. In the next release it'll be there.

I will also try the fuel mix/prop issue (wrote '****ue' by mistake at first http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) again with more than two engines. Who knows, maybe it does not act that buggy with 3-6 engines. I'd love to make that work.

AndyJWest
01-20-2010, 12:34 AM
I'm not sure there is any point in being able to set prop pitch, mixture or supercharger stage independantly for each engine. Perhaps IL-2 doesn't allow this.

It should be possible to set throttle for each engine independently using DeviceLink, and this should work to 1% rather than the 5% you get with keypresses - I've not tried this, but the way DeviceLink is set up, it ought to work.

I've found Java very useful for working with IL-2 utilities: it may not necessarily deliver the last few percent of speed, but it is a lot easier to debug than say C++, and the standard library is all you need to interface with IL-2 via DeviceLink.

MikkOwl
01-20-2010, 01:06 AM
IL-2 allows each engine to be set individually, within a single percent, except fuel mix which is within 10% (keybind only).

But, I just tried it again with the same result. Whenever one is finished setting one engine, and even just SELECT another, it instantly takes on ALL settings of the previous engine.

For example, I wanted to make sure that all prop pitch/fuel mix changes at least affected all engines, in the absense of proper control, so I put in a timer that sent the 'select all engines' key a second or three after having moved the throttle position of an engine (in the Bf 110 say). I was most disturbed by seeing that then the other throttle lever 'adjusted' to match the first one, like a slave. The way around this was to just not send the 'select all engines' and leave it in the last selected at all times.

I may yet be successful in my first imrovised solution to this - to force the old settings to be sent again to the newly selected engine, to stop it from cloning the settings of the 'last selected' engine. The first attempts on this produced inconsistent movement, as it starts sending a very large amount of keys as soon as you start moving both levers around, and there's also a big difference in the amount of keys needing to be sent for every little change:

Currently with only throttle, if moving another throttle lever, it sends 'change to this engine' and 'send power setting key', and that's it. It's as fast as a direct axis bind ingame. But with having just seperate prop pitch, one has to send 'select new engine', then 'send previous prop pitch setting for this engine', and 'send power setting'.

Moving several levers at once give an especially chaotic result. But now I have an idea.. If I can cut down on the keys being sent even more, it may still work. Just realized something. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-------------

Regarding That Throttle program with device link - I don't even know C++, or how on earth to use a 'library'. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'm not a programmer. When I was a kid, my mom brought home an introduction page to programming 'basic' for the C64 and Amiga from work. I learned that basic math example only. Understood how programming 'works' then at least, in contrast to others.

With the years I only once in a while tried some scripting or some custom language used for the 3d construction kit, OP Flashpoint, ArmA.. And now I spent a few nights reading into the manual of AutoHotKey, which is what my multi-throttle uses. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

------------

Thoughts on flying with multi engines: isn't it more economical and cools the engine more if one reduces thrust on engines on one side to make a turn, rather than using rudder/roll?

Another thought: if you lose ailerons and/or stabilizer, even elevator controls, it should be possible to turn and fly the thing using engine control only, like modern incidents in Iraq and Canada (large airliners or transport planes). That'd be most awesome to try out. Imagine the satisfaction having landed safely without ailerons/stabilizer for example.

AndyJWest
01-20-2010, 01:43 AM
I think that trying to control multiple engines usin emulated key presses is unlikely to be 100% reliable, regardless of how you do it: there is no way to avoid user input keys interfering.

Programming in Java (or C++) isn't that difficult, though I'd not recommend trying to interface with IL-2 as a first project.

As for steering by using asymetric thrust - this will probably work, but using conventional controls is likely to be more responsive. Economy is hardly an issue either, unless you plan to spend most of your flight fling in tight circles.

MikkOwl
01-20-2010, 01:55 AM
Steering the engines through key emulation is proving to be enormously accurate the way I made it work (yes, the initial basic attempts were a bit unreliable, though easy to set up. But I put in timers and checks that limit the amounts of keys used (it attempts to only send the very minimal amount needed), and also a buffer so that keys are sent in order and the 'right setting' is always the last one to be put in, without any overlap).

I'm working on having individual prop pitch work now, having had a long nights sleep and a nice breakfast. I already got it to work pretty nicely by optimizing the amount of keys being sent (less = better) and slowed down the refresh rate of the key sending part to let the system catch up with the increased keys being sent. I think this is going to end up working.

On another hand, my saitek quadrant has a slight amount of mini-spiking (it's just moving between 2-3 different positions on it's 256 axis positions) and this is sometimes causing it to cycle between two different positions in game if it happens to be left at the very edge between two zones. I'll easily fix that by trimming a slight deadzone between each 'zone'. The refresh rate for the axis scanner is high enough not to miss any zones when moving levers anyway.

--

I don't think I'll jump into the C++/Java thing anytime soon, it's a bit too hardcore. I have nothing else I want to program anyway, all this was about was that I wanted my darned G940 throttles to work in IL-2. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (as well as some basic key functionality like weapon safeties, individual engine start/stop buttons and some better fov/headtrack control etc behaviour) - but all that worked fine in the more basic AutoHotKey program, which is especially suited for 'interface' stuff. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

grifter2u
01-20-2010, 02:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikkOwl:
Only problem now is - how do I learn to manipulate twin engined planes properly (apart from turning on the ground with the engines instead of rudders)? I have tried to find guides but haven't found any what so ever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

isnt the main issue with the p38 that in real life it had counter rotating props, making it very stable at low speeds and being able to turn quickly ?

iirc in il2 the p38 engines, and i suspect most twin engined planes, turn in the same direction. so torque is very strong and uneven to one side.

not sure if any of the engines on the single engine planes turn in the opposite direction, i guess a mod of some sorts for this would be an interesting project.

MikkOwl
01-20-2010, 02:27 AM
Most of the twins in real life turned in opposite directions, and they do in IL-2 a well (otherwise one would have to use rudder noticably when taking off in them). They don't need any rudder trim when flying either.

Also, the single props in IL-2 do turn in different directions depending on how the real one was. I think if you try an IL-2 (the plane) and take off, then try the 109, you'll see that they need opposite rudder to counter the opposite torque http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Not sure how to make this useful when flying dual throttle however.

grifter2u
01-20-2010, 03:08 AM
i dont think the p38 in il2 has counter rotating props, unless this was fixed in a recent patch. its been a while since i looked at it, but from memory oleg implemented the resemblance of lack of unilateral torque by some other means, and he wasnt able to correctly implement the mutually canceling effect of counter rotating torque at the time due to some technical limitations of the game.

i am also not convinced that even if visually the props now seem to turn in the opposite direction that this in fact also manifest as torgue in 2 different direction in the il2 p38, allowing you to do the very low speed turning maneuvers it is famous for. in fact i think in il2 it has worst stall speeds during one of the turn directions (left or right, cant remember) compared to many single engined fighters at the same speed.

i'd be happy if i was wrong on this, since that was the main reason i stopped using the p38 at the time

MikkOwl
01-20-2010, 03:39 AM
I checked out most of the planes with multi-engines in my IL-2 inventory.

All planes I tested except all versions of the P-38 and the Henschel 129 have props rotating in one direction (albeit that direction depended on the plane type. USSR planes tended to be opposite to the rest).

The P-38 flew straight as a needle on the runway with all trims and control inputs zeroed. Any variation of the engine RPM though and it'd start yawing.

I take that as good evidence the P-38, whatever it used to be, is done up right now.

This is a bummer though, to find out that my love affair, the Bf 110, is not symmetric http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

grifter2u
01-20-2010, 03:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikkOwl:
The P-38 flew straight as a needle on the runway with all trims and control inputs zeroed. Any variation of the engine RPM though and it'd start yawing.

I take that as good evidence the P-38, whatever it used to be, is done up right now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i am not convinced that is conclusive proof of true opposing torque being modeled now in il2 for the p38, but then i am basing this on past experience only, and not having tried it myself recently http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif dont let my stubbornness distract from your OT and derail the thread

there are some good p38 experts on this board, somebody will know the answer. if it is now correctly implemented for the p38, so much the better

btw, nice program you wrote, sounds like i might still have a reason to to make the usb mod for my old suncom gameport twin throttle i have been putting of

MikkOwl
01-20-2010, 04:16 AM
Shouldn't you have the thing fixed for upcoming Storm of War anyway? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If you are into Ju-88, Bf 110 and He-111's that is. Don't think the allies had much twin props that will be in the initial release.

And I don't see what the problem would be now with having contra-rotating props. If you can have props that work realistically with torque (and they do) in both directions, and they cause the asymmetric behaviour when flying single, as well as the same-turning multi prop planes, they should cancel each other out when having opposite rotating ones (and that seems very much to be the case with the henschel and the P38 - they fly straaaaight as a needle unless one does not have identical engine settings on both engines).

EDIT: After brainstorming this morning, I figured out a number of possible uses for twin engines (or more). I'm including this in the download package from now on in a seperate readme.

Now that we have proper control over our multi-engined planes, how can we make use of it? Since it has not been around before and no one seems to know much about how one can make use of it, here are some examples of what you can do in a twin-engined (as well as four engined in some cases):

1. When on the ground, you can steer the plane with your engines instead of rudder and wheel brakes. More fun than you would think, and not easy.

2. If an engine radiator is damaged, or has a coolant leak, throttle it down compared to the healthy engine to avoiding it over heating and breaking down. Compensate the yawing in that engine's direction with opposite rudder trim.

3. You can help your turns in the air a bit by reducing power on the engine on that side of the turn, allowing this engine to cool a bit and saving a bit of fuel.

4. If your stabilizer control surface (i.e. rudder) is damaged, or even shot off completely along with the stabilizer, you can use the engines to yaw the plane.

5. Similarly, if the ailerons go on one side or both, you can roll the plane with the engines as well. Airplanes stay airborne because the airflow over the wings provide lift. If one wing has less airflow than the other (such as when one engine is giving less power than the other), that wing will provide less lift than the other wing. Since lift is a force upwards, and the wings then no longer privide identical push upwards, the wing with less airflow over it will start to drop and the other rise - and you are rolling your plane.

6. Even if you lose ailerons, rudder and elevator control, you can control altitude, roll and yaw by only using your two engines. Your total airspeed then determines if you climb, stay level or descend. Any difference in engine power on either side makes the airplane both yaw and roll towards the lower powered engine, letting you make turns. Actually managing a landing under these circumstances is no doubt very difficult, but making it to your own lines for a ditching or even a bail out should be possible - and satisfying. And to think of the satisfaction of ditching on your airfield, or even managing a landing! It has been done several times in real life in much larger planes. Once by a cargo plane in the US Air Force in Iraq around the year 2005, which was taking off. This plane managed to go around and land again despite having only the engines to steer with. There are other famous accounts of the pilots in passenger/cargo planes doing the same.

7. Getting out of a spin/flatspin/stall:
The plane is skidding wildly in one direction. Normal recovery is stick forward, opposite rudder and throttle down. With a multi engine, it should be possible to let the engine on the inner side of the skid keep going, as it then provides asymmetrical thrust in the opposite direction of the skid, helping the rudder to stop the skidding/rotation. I do not know if this actually works or not, but in theory it sounds proper.

8. At the top of a zoom (sharp climb) where you start to go so slow that the control surfaces barely work, like when performing a 'hammer head' maneuver - or otherwise trying to do sudden sharp skids to the side on top of a zoom below effective airspeed for control surfaces to work - reducing throttle on one engine should make you yaw in that direction, providing more yaw authority than would otherwise be possible. Maybe even more than a pursuing single engined plane might have, despite our plane weighing more and being slower.

MikkOwl
01-26-2010, 10:45 PM
Version 3.0 is done.

http://hem.bredband.net/mikko....le_v3_by_MikkOwl.zip (http://hem.bredband.net/mikko.artist/Multi_Throttle_v3_by_MikkOwl.zip)

Change Log:

- Switch from keyboard emulation method to "Device Link" interface. Throttles now have same accuracy as default IL-2.
- Toe-brakes on rudder pedals (G940 for example) control individual aircraft wheel brakes.
- Seperate engine start and propeller feather buttons.
- Fuel Mixture on axis (requires keyboard emulation to work, such as in version 1 and 2).
- Radiator on axis.
- Invert axis support.
- All keys and controls user customisable.
- Pre-prepared profiles (to help along the way).
- More extensive documentation.

Neil_Lowe
01-26-2010, 10:52 PM
That's simply fantastic news MikkOwl, a milestone in IL2's evolution. Well done m8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Differential braking too, we are spoilt.

Thanx again,

Cheers, Neil http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TheGrunch
01-26-2010, 11:21 PM
Awesome work as usual...now to save my pennies up for a G940 so I can use it! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

fabianfred
01-27-2010, 05:20 AM
great...it works OK for me now using an AV8R stick.
Couldn't get version 2 to work.
Does this mean I can go back to using the bomb-bay doors mod as usual or not...using power 10 key..??

At last i can take-off in the Wellington...could only spin in circles before...!!!

julian265
01-27-2010, 05:33 AM
Doesn't the switch to device link mean that it won't work online?

fabianfred
01-27-2010, 05:51 AM
I think so....I wonder how TD are doing theirs?

MikkOwl
01-27-2010, 07:46 AM
You can use the Bomb Bay Doors mod again.
It works online.
It also works with TrackIR.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And TheGrunch, you don't need a G940 to make use of this. Even with a single throttle you can make use of the Fuel Mixture on axis, Radiator on Axis. And toe brakes, in the unlikely event you have them.

Any device axises can be used for throttles. A cheap way to get lots of fun functionality in IL-2 (especially with this) is to get the Saitek Quadrant. About 50€, gives you three levers and 9 buttons (although quality is a bit shoddy, I'm going to have to send mine in for replacement in a while, still, it is almost twice the fun to fly with it than without - can use dual engines + flaps for example, etc).

TheGrunch
01-27-2010, 08:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikkOwl:
And TheGrunch, you don't need a G940 to make use of this. Even with a single throttle you can make use of the Fuel Mixture on axis, Radiator on Axis. And toe brakes, in the unlikely event you have them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, I know, just the Throttle #2 axis on the Saitek Aviator I just bought is extremely unreliable for holding calibration, so I don't tend to use it. By the sounds of it I'm lucky, others have had problems with several axes including X and Y axes all at the same time. But hey, it was cheap. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

grifter2u
01-27-2010, 08:39 AM
MikkOwl,

i posted some specific details on how to test the presence/absence of correctly modeled 2 engine torque on the p38 here http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...761073728#4761073728 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9641060628?r=4761073728#4761073728)

can you give it a try and see how it behaves with your twin engine control ?

AndyJWest
01-27-2010, 08:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Doesn't the switch to device link mean that it won't work online? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is nothing to prevent DeviceLink working controls online. It is the instrumentation that is disabled. This is documented in the DEviceLink.txt file in the IL-2 folder.

MikkOwl
01-27-2010, 09:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by grifter2u:
MikkOwl,

i posted some specific details on how to test the presence/absence of correctly modeled 2 engine torque on the p38 here http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...761073728#4761073728 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9641060628?r=4761073728#4761073728)

can you give it a try and see how it behaves with your twin engine control ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried a P-38L take-off. It flew fairly straight along the runway, and with a bit of flaps (20%) it took off. Upon gaining 5-10 meters of height, I switched off the right engine. My airspeed was about 125mph. It started yawing to the right, but I could hold it. But I lost a bit more speed, so I applied more throttle on the left engine, and, once the right engine had slowed down even more, airspeed fell to about 115mph, where it started rolling uncontrollably to the right and I flew into the ocean (Okinawa runway).

Upon reading the text you posted in the other topic, it said safe single engine speed (with the correct settings) was 120mph. Sounds as if what I observed was how it should be.

EDIT: I didn't actually turn off the engine, I just reduced throttle to 0%. Right away it started yawing right (but not rolling too much, could easily keep it from rolling by applying a bunch of left stick). But as left propeller increased speed and the right rotated slower and slower, and airspeed dropping to 115mph, it was out of control. The whole event from throttling down to impact with sea was probably about 10 seconds.

AndyJWest
01-27-2010, 09:21 AM
If all you want is to test for sudden engine loss, you can do this easily with a programmable joystick or similar controller. Just program a button to emulate keys for 'select left engine', 'toggle engine on/off', 'select right engine'. I've done this in the past. The P-38 handles this better than most twins, but I thought at the time that this was mostly due to having sufficient excess power for single-engine flight. Testing some more, I'm now unsure about the torque modelling, and am beginning to suspect it is wrong in this situation - it certainly isn't as dangerous as the real-life P-38 was reputed to be.

MikkOwl
01-27-2010, 09:36 AM
Tried it some more.
At max power on left and none on the right (off completely), with a little bit of flaps and gear out, it's possible to keep it from rolling out of control at 115mph - with maximum rudder left and nearly maximum stick left. Raise the flaps + the nose a little and it's bye bye roll to the right.

I can imagine that this is close to what the air force in the 40's would consider 'unsafe' flying, and is very dangerous if you don't know exactly what to do. If it happend just after lifting off at take-off speed you'd be screwed fast without instant action, which they educate against in the instructions provided (love manuals btw, if you have more complete things, please send them to me. I store them in my google docs account). No doubt this is close, if not 100%, to reality. Trouble is, our engines don't cut out on take-off ever in this game.

In general, raising the RPM of the left engine when the right is off produces a very violent rolling motion to the right, especially noticable the slower the aircraft is traveling.

MikkOwl
01-28-2010, 04:32 PM
Change Log version 3.1 (current)

- Fixed an issue where software would not be accepted by IL-2 if software was started before IL-2. Now one can launch it at any time. After starting IL-2 and having entered the cockpit, one now presses to "Alt G" activate the software (a comand prompt will appear over IL-2's screen - use the mouse to click on the IL-2 window and it will resume). "ALT E" exits the software. Users updating from Version 3.0 can simply copy their old mikkonfig.ini over to the new version.
- Tidied up the files and directories. Now only the launcher, the mikkonfig.ini file and the instructions are in the main directory.

See first post in topic for details and download link.

thefruitbat
01-28-2010, 05:11 PM
just a heads up, if you look at the stuff planned for 4.10, multi throttle/pitch etc support is set to be included in the upcoming patch.

MikkOwl
01-28-2010, 05:19 PM
I heard that they are planning multi throttle and possibly prop pitch as well. But that stuff is many months away at the earliest, and the support for these things is not guaranteed to come at all. I also doubt they have fuel mixture and radiator on axis, differential braking and individual engine start/feather buttons, so either way, this is here now and it has more features than they will release, if/when they do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

thefruitbat
01-28-2010, 05:55 PM
read the thread sticked at the top of this forum, it all there. fuel mix, rads all included, sceduled for end of march release.

all in all, you do what ever you want, just letting you know,.

MikkOwl
01-28-2010, 06:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefruitbat:
read the thread sticked at the top of this forum, it all there. fuel mix, rads all included, sceduled for end of march release.

all in all, you do what ever you want, just letting you know,. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is awesome! Thanks for the heads up.
I looked at their video showing it and it seems they must have gotten their hands on changing the source code, for the prop pitch could be moved for both engines at the same time as the throttles being moved, and the radiator had 12 settings (or more) - not just the regular. I'm sure fuel mix is the same although I couldn't see it.

I can't wait to get my hands on it. I hope they can get the wheel brakes set up individually as well, though I doubt that'll happen. Fuel mix, prop pitch, all individual for each engine... yum. Problem is I don't have enough levers for all the functions at once. Just dual throttle HOTAS, then a quadrant with 3 levers - two for prop pitch then and a third for flaps. Radiator on the G940 stick 'trim' wheel 1.

As for my software, I'm not embittered or believing I wasted anything doing it (I would be if I was charging money for it though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ). I would not want to wait until the end of march or beyond to get to use more than one of my throttles. And also I don't have the kind of accuracy that they will be providing for fuel mix and radiator. And it'll be nice not to have to use an external program setup to access these functions.

I'm pretty much done developing the interface part. The next thing I'm going to do is to provide some kind of user controls for the G940 throttle button colors, something I doubt anyone else will do for IL-2.

TheGrunch
01-29-2010, 04:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikkOwl:
The next thing I'm going to do is to provide some kind of user controls for the G940 throttle button colors, something I doubt anyone else will do for IL-2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's a really good call...I was a bit dubious about buying the G940 a little while ago, but you and Daidalos Team keep making it more and more worthwhile to buy for Il-2. It's at the top of my wishlist at the moment. That and a trim-box with decent-sized wheels.
Do you find it difficult to use the trims on the joystick base precisely?

MikkOwl
01-29-2010, 04:33 AM
Kind of related, as much of the Multi-Throttle support had the G940 in mind:

G940 Manual Lights Controller
A program by myself, MikkOwl.

http://hem.bredband.net/mikko....r_1.0_by_MikkOwl.zip (http://hem.bredband.net/mikko.artist/G940_manual_lights_controller_1.0_by_MikkOwl.zip)

FEATURES:

- Allows you to make each button change it's light when pressed, and set some details regarding how slow it should change, if there should be any transition light, and lets you have two profiles to choose between to keep you lights in syncronization with your aircraft in game.
- This program does NOT make your G940 button lights do anything other than what you tell them in this program, when you press the specific button in question. They can't know what goes on in the game you are in or anything to that extent.

It features two individual profiles you can switch between in game. Useful for example, when you want your landing gear in IL-2 to be red when up, and green when down. You set it to start as green as you typically fly from the runway, but online or in whatever situation, you can find yourself starting in the air. Thus having a second profile where everything is the same except you set your landing gear button to start as red instead (indicating gear up) lets you keep the button color in sync somewhat with what you want it to indicate from the game. Or whatever other functions you have in mind. :smileyhappy:

MikkOwl
01-29-2010, 04:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheGrunch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikkOwl:
The next thing I'm going to do is to provide some kind of user controls for the G940 throttle button colors, something I doubt anyone else will do for IL-2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's a really good call...I was a bit dubious about buying the G940 a little while ago, but you and Daidalos Team keep making it more and more worthwhile to buy for Il-2. It's at the top of my wishlist at the moment. That and a trim-box with decent-sized wheels.
Do you find it difficult to use the trims on the joystick base precisely? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bahah, according to the timestamps, you wrote and sent this one minute or less before I posted my G940 color changing program. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The trim wheels are all easy to use and they are as accurate as one can ask.

Being small (as wheels are), spinning about 270 degrees, and not having a lot of resistance, it's very touchy in game if you don't use some heavy courves on them. This due to the scale of input rather than the accuracy, which is good and has no stuttering what so ever, at all. Only my 900 degrees of rotation, offering more resistance and huge diameter G940 steering wheel used as elevator tab didn't need courves.

PS: love my G940. Hate the 'reversal bug' however, making the axises (throttle in particular) make a small jump whenever you start moving it in the opposite direction it last moved. Supposed to be fixed by firmware update in the next software update by Logitech. It better be.

TheGrunch
01-29-2010, 05:26 AM
So for example, how long can you trim the aircraft to fly straight and level using those trims and then leaving it alone? I always found it difficult to do so on my X45.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikkOwl:
PS: love my G940. Hate the 'reversal bug' however, making the axises (throttle in particular) make a small jump whenever you start moving it in the opposite direction it last moved. Supposed to be fixed by firmware update in the next software update by Logitech. It better be. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, I've been following the progress of the software updates as that was what initially made me cautious about it...they're certainly taking their time over it, aren't they?

MikkOwl
01-29-2010, 05:36 AM
For how long one can fly the aircraft using only the trims, with hands off periods in between or what?

One can certainly easily fly any plane around using only the trim wheels, with some dexterity (not exactly the most intuitive control method :P). I use the trim wheels on the throttle mainly - backside has the elevator, side thumb the rudder. Elevator often used and that works very satisfactory. The rudder trim is touchier since one has centered pedals while the stick is a bit more flexible with how the ailerons and elevators are trimmed, and I've had issues moving it little enough when messing with the rudder. Been meaning to lower the sensitivity on that rudder trim for a while to make it casual to use.

I can't really reach the trim wheels on the stick base as it's on my right side lower down. Nothing I would reach over to do often anyway - more suitable for non trim functions like radiator/volume control and the not often used aileron trim.

thefruitbat
01-29-2010, 06:18 AM
Hi MikkOwl, yeah it looks good what there doing, but to be fair so is what you've done http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

glad i got myself one of these for my xmas present to myself, lol!

http://www.flightstore.co.uk/images/products/SAIPROT/261-2-1.jpeg

I use this for prop pitch, elevator and rudder trim, at the moment.

at the moment i got 2 rotarys i'm not even using + the throttle on my msffb2 (using a x52 as well) and i've got the full hotas list complete, so i'm really looking forward to this!

TheGrunch
01-29-2010, 06:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikkOwl:
For how long one can fly the aircraft using only the trims, with hands off periods in between or what? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I just meant how long can you leave it hands-off before bad things start happening. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I hear lots of stories from RAF pilots of them being so exhausted on an uneventful coastal patrol that they fall asleep and find themselves almost to the other side of the channel at 500ft...if I left an aircraft on Il-2 to go to the loo it'd be a crater within 15 seconds, I'd bet.
I've heard a lot of people make that comment about the position of the trims, but I never found it counter-intuitive to reach my throttle hand over to the stick base anyway, I guess from playing without a HOTAS as a kid.
It's the same reason I don't understand people complaining about the lack of a centre detent for the trims...you're barely ever going to need to be at the centre anyway, the only thing you need to know for trim is which direction to move it in, not where it is exactly.
I really hope that Maddox Games make use of the fact that the G940 can use any centre point you want for control forces when they're programming force-feedback in SoW.
Ha, I like how we have these discussions across two forums. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thefruitbat
01-29-2010, 06:40 AM
i find it very hard to be able to trim planes out really well at full throttle, theres often a slight climb or dip etc, but with a lot of planes at a lower throttle settings i can get them to be really stable, straight and true and have been know to trim a plane for a climb and go down and make myself a cup of tea, to come back and find myself at a nice alt...

sometimes on the return flight, i fly the planes just with trim, turning, controlling alt etc, obviously only with planes with rudder trim, and not touching the stick at all (the beauty of a having ffb self centering), until its time to land. Always wondered if you could do that with a real plane?

fabianfred
01-29-2010, 06:43 PM
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/fabianfred537/010808024.jpg

I use the right hand pair of throttles for my throttles with this program now..... and the left pair are for flaps and elevator trim...the little throttle lever on my M$SW stick I use for rudder trim.

Sokol__1
01-29-2010, 08:12 PM
Tested and approved 100%.
Easy to setup and use.

Thank you MikkOwl.

Sokol1

MikkOwl
01-29-2010, 08:45 PM
Fruitbat
I have exactly that same model Saitek Quadrant as well. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Great functionality but shoddy build quality (cheap pots, cheap buttons, mine is already having stuff breaking down and it's only been about 3 months. Ridiculous. I'll send it back).

By the way, it does not appear that the 4.10 patch from Team Daidalos will include fuel mixture or toe brakes. My utility will be useful even after they do that.

------

TheGrunch
how long one can leave everything offhand before something bad happens - this is purely individual to the aircraft and your knowledge of how to set the trims, prop pitch and throttle before going hands off. Aircraft tend to oscillate in different ways. The most typical we experience is probably the phugoid one (if I don't got the names mixed up). I read on wikipedia about it and instantly recognized it as 'that annoying thing' I kept seeing. It's a very slow oscillation where the plane, say that it's trimmed right for current speed but is gaining speed slowly. We go hands off and, as it picks up speed, the nose starts to rise due to the increased lift. The pitch up makes it eventually start to slow down because we're climbing, and the nose then starts to drop, and it goes into a (usually) small dive, and it repeats itself. Happens so slowly it isn't dangerous at all, at least if you are concious http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The story of spits flying that far without anyone controlling is very unlikely - it does not have aileron trim, right? Then if it goes into small phugoid oscillations, the prop will turn more or less, and the plane would probably start rolling a bit to the side. I think in those stories, the pilot was 'barely' concious, dozing off constantly while making corrections at times, but so half-asleep that they don't remember what they did. I'm sure you have experiences like that in your bed, sofa or chair even - I know I have (of course not making course corrections but still http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

-----

fabianfred
What a hardcore improvised setup you have! Interesting to see. I'm happy you were able to make use of my program to get more use of that hardware laying around. I would take pictures of my own setup here if it wasn't so damned dirty and messy (it's really horrible).

- I have a reclinable, a bit lower than desk chair height, TV chair made out of leather, that can rotate to the sides. I removed the arm-rests to reach my HOTAS on either side. Even though it leans back or forward, it cannot lean so much forward that it compares to a desk chair, so I am always reclined back, which has some consequences.
- A very wide home built desk, about 2˝ meters in width.
- On top there is a 15cm tall cardboard box, wide enough to put a monitor on it.
- On the box, a 24" widescreen monitor. I must have this arrangement because the chair is reclined and my head pitches 'up' a bit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
- On the wide foot of the monitor, to the left, stands a TrackIR 5 sensor. Because I sit reclined the monitor must be taller, but 'straight forward' when leaning and such is still lower down, thus the positioning of the sensor (if on top, moving head forward = going forward and a lot DOWN into a IL-2 cockpit, which is bad)
- To the left of the box, beneath the monitor (and slightly in front) is the Saitek Quadrant pictured by TheFruitBat above.
- Underneath the desk is the G940 rudder pedals, laying on top of a folded white thick blanket (to not make noise to the neighbors below), and it is not flat against the ground, it stands leaning a bit against the wall along the ledge of the wall-floor - otherwise I cannot flip the toe brakes forward due to the angle of my legs/feet. The whole desk is pulled out from the wall so that I can sit very close to the desk and still have the pedals where they are (otherwise, either have to sit further away or have the pedals crunched right in front of my chair).
- Under the desk to the left, is a set of drawers standing on little wheels (from another desk). The middle drawer is pulled out all the way, and inside is an old Amiga 500 floppy disk box from way back, and on top of that, is my G940 throttle. This lets me have the throttle at the perfect height and distance (realistic and comfortable) when flying. Snugly to the left of my legs.
- To the right is a 'serving table', a small thing, maybe 60x40cm with one side rounded. It has three legs underneath the table going down to an identically sized table, and underneath used to be wheels it rolled on but I removed them to make it lower and flat against the carpet. On this table is my G940 joystick, as well as the mouse + pad.

I sit so close when flying that the G940 joystick has the desk above it when centered. The screen is huge at only 50cm distance or so, although any closer and it starts to get uncomfortable and hard to see instead.

-------

To all: I have some information about next version of Multi-throttle v3.2. I didn't think I would develop it further, but, I thought about the reversal bug problem with G940 drivers affecting all axis on it, especially noticable with the throttles, and I managed to solve it after 2 hours of work. I imagine other G940 users will like to have that fix for IL-2 too.

It will only be for the throttles and trim function of IL-2, not flaps etc.

The fix works by having a 'filter' that reads the axises first, then applying some math adjustments (took ages to figure out exactly how how much and where to manipulate the numbers), and then pass that along to the program parts that do what they did before. It only works through device link obviously, and I will set them up as trim wheels. I will let people choose the three wheels of their G940 they want to use as the trims in game.

My G940 led control program will get an update too - to make it possible to have a LED Light change color if trim wheels are centered (or not). It will make it easy to center trims before take off in this manner:

If all the three trims are not centered, the button light is off.

You start turning a trim - when it passes over the center, the button goes red for a short moment. You reverse the trim back and the light lights red again, you found the center.

Moving on to the next trim wheel, you spin it around in the same way, and when centered the light is yellow.

Going to the last trim, you repeat the process and, the light becomes green - all trims centered.

BillSwagger
01-30-2010, 10:20 AM
well,

i took a chance with this, and now my joystick profiler isn't working properly.

It seems that it resets a few commands to default when the program shuts down. So everytime i want to play i have to reassign keys which is time consuming and annoying.

whats weird is that all i did was install your software and clicked on an exe file to have a look at its features, but all it did was bring up a DOS screen. So i un clicked it and none of the software appears to be in use.

Now upon using my existing profiler software it seems to be having trouble remembering command functions. It won't save them with the proper intervals which is odd.
Maybe there is something in the code that conflicts with my current set up, but then your program isn't running, so its strange that this problem is occurring now.

I tried to restore my computer but for some reason my computer refuses to restore to an earlier point, now.

I've attempted to reinstall my profiler software, and after numerous attempts the problem remains.

What can you recommend that i do?

Bill

MikkOwl
01-30-2010, 08:46 PM
Bill,

So sorry to hear about the trouble you seem to be having. I will reply to each to the best of my ability.

First of all, I think I should explain of how this thing works.

1. It is not installed in any way. It is so basic, that it just sits by itself in a folder somewhere, where we put it.

2. When running the "IL-2 Multi Throttle v3.x Launcher", it starts the launcher, which just sits there waiting for the user to click either ALT E or ALT G. This is a miniscule program capable of doing only two things: Exiting, or trying to launch the actual throttle program.

3. If the user clicks ALT-G, it looks in the "Binaries" folder and brings up a command prompt window, and then inputs a line in that window to start the actual Multi Throttle program, called "MikkOwl_Magic.exe", and to direct the output from this program to "NC" (netcat, tiny network utility), and with the instructions for netcat to forward any of this output to a certain UDP port inside your computer. Then the launcher terminates itself. If the user clicks Alt E instead of ALT G, it terminates itself without doing anything as well.

4. When the throttle program launches (as mentioned above), it reads only one single file - the mikkonfig.file in the directory above it (i.e. the one where the launcher program was in). It reads some of the lines to see what axises you want it to read or buttons to use for certain functions, if set up. If the file is missing, can't be found or something is set up wrong in the file, it probably quits. A green square with a white "H" in the middle of it should be visible in the lower right corner if it is running (the launcher does this as well, but gets replaced by this when launching the throttle program).

5. At this point, if the program didn't quit because it couldn't find it's mikkonfig.ini file, it is running and sends command input if any controllers are moved that are set up in the mikkonfig.ini file, over network connection (only inside the computer still) towards UDP port 3333. This does nothing by itself.

6. If IL-2 is running, with device link activated, and the ALT-G start of the throttle program was done AFTER IL-2 was started and running, IL-2 should be listening and accepting the commands sent on UDP port 3333, letting the user control their aircraft successfully.

7. When clicking ALT-E, or manually closing all the Multi throttle windows and programs (the command prompt and the MikkOwl_Magic.exe green square in the task bar corner), nothing in particular takes place. Just programs being closed. It doesn't ask questions or try to save some config or push any buttons. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

At no point does the software read any file outside it's own folder. It is incapable of writing files, or changing contents of files. It is not 'installed'. It cannot change the configuration of any setting of IL-2. It does not know where IL-2 is located. It cannot tell if IL-2 is running, or anyting else is running for that matter. It is extremely simple and basic.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It seems that it resets a few commands to default when the program shuts down. So everytime i want to play i have to reassign keys which is time consuming and annoying. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What commands/assignments and where? In IL-2?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">whats weird is that all i did was install your software and clicked on an exe file to have a look at its features, but all it did was bring up a DOS screen. So i un clicked it and none of the software appears to be in use. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What .exe did you click? Did the dos window have any text in it? The launcher does not start any dos prompts when run, but the green square with an H in it should appear in the task bar lower right corner. There it waits for the ALT-G command to launch the throttle program, or ALT-E to turn itself off.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now upon using my existing profiler software it seems to be having trouble remembering command functions. It won't save them with the proper intervals which is odd.
Maybe there is something in the code that conflicts with my current set up, but then your program isn't running, so its strange that this problem is occurring now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The existing profiler - in game IL-2? Logitech Profiler? Saitek Profiler?

If it (meaning the full throttle program, MikkOwl_Magic, launched by alt-G in the launcher) was running, it is still impossible to my knowledge that it would somehow block the functionality of your profiler program. All it does is scan the axises specified in the mikkonfig.ini file (and in your case, those are probably not even any axis, since you did not configure your device for the throttle program to know which ones to scan). It scans them several times per second. But scanning is not exclusive - anything else can scan at the same time too, it is just 'polling' a device. Something that is done in every game/profiler/etc program all at the same time when they run.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Maybe there is something in the code that conflicts with my current set up, but then your program isn't running, so its strange that this problem is occurring now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I agree that it is strange. Seeing as the throttle program (if actually ALT G launched) is not running, it is not doing anything, and logically, if it does not run it cannot either conflict with anything. And as mentioned, it doesn't perform any actions, it is too basic to do that - doesn't mess with windows registry etc either.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I tried to restore my computer but for some reason my computer refuses to restore to an earlier point, now.

I've attempted to reinstall my profiler software, and after numerous attempts the problem remains.

What can you recommend that i do? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your problem is with almost complete certainty unrelated to the multi throttle program. Nevertheless, you have problems. What caused them I cannot say. Restoring to earlier points was a logical decision to revert any problems that might have arrisen. But the restore function working or failing is a matter of Windows being bugged or not (in my own experience, not much success with it. Works fine as long as everything already is fine, but when things go wrong, it tends to fail on me).

I think I would run a complete disc check on all the hard drives, especially the OS partition, to see if your harddrive crapped out on you a bit. Sometimes they just fail in a sector of the drive but the rest works. More commonly, a read/write operation fails, and this is usually due to a power surge/blackout or when powering off the computer without letting it run the proper shutdown sequence, but can happen even when everything seems normal. It happens to me and my parents (whose computers I must attend to when problems arrise, hurrah) sometimes that when stuff doesn't work right, some files got corrupted or the file table (less serious) was corrupted. And almost always in those situations, running a check disk (disc repair) fixed the problems.

If that doesn't help it, try switching USB ports. Try DxTweak2, or "DIView" to see if your controllers are moving about as they should.

Your 'profiler' software may well be bugged out on you, and with windows, uninstalling such software usually doesn't remove everything, they leave old setup information in the registry and configuration files in the system folders.

Best of luck with it. Keep us posted with the progress. And next time, read the instructions before using software before launching it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif It's not exactly as polished or automated as a validated-by-microsoft piece of software. No one anywhere could possibly get it to work unless reading the instructions, because it needs the device link in IL-2 configured, and then the ALT-G thing, the axises configured in mikkonfig.ini (G940 users could probably get away with not configuring their axises, as their setup is default).

BillSwagger
01-30-2010, 09:14 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


Im certain it was your program.


check PMs.

Bill

MikkOwl
02-01-2010, 12:08 PM
http://hem.bredband.net/mikko....e_3.2_by_MikkOwl.zip (http://hem.bredband.net/mikko.artist/Multi_Throttle_3.2_by_MikkOwl.zip)

Version 3.2 uploaded now.

A major reworking and effort to make it much faster, easier to set up and to understand, as well as special G940 support, defines this version.

- Added .ini free configuration of throttles. G940 recieved automatic configuration.
- Added 'reversal bug' fix for G940 throttles, and optionally also of elevator + rudder trims (which also have an optional range reduction to avoid overly sensitive trimming).
- Added ability to tweak G940 throttle output to match each other's position in-game if not matching.
- Cleaned up, reorganized and renamed files and folders to fool-proof even more.
- Changed launcher to display a pop-up with instructions, and clicking "OK" to enable instead of "ALT-G".
- Removed fuel mixture and radiator support (troublesome and not fool-proof; never heard of anyone using it either).

And I just remembered, I also tweaked some of the scanning intervals that might make it work better on a select few systems.

I can always add fuel mix and radiator back later if there's any demand for it. But for now, making all these things work in a more user friendly, auto-set up kind of way was complicated and time consuming enough - I was afraid I would simply not get this update out at all if I tried to include those features, due to being 'buried' with the amount things that needed to be updated.

Urufu_Shinjiro
02-01-2010, 03:34 PM
I think I'll try this just for the separate toe braking. I need a multi-throttle setup bad...

MikkOwl
02-01-2010, 11:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
I think I'll try this just for the separate toe braking. I need a multi-throttle setup bad... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What kind of hardware do you have that has toe brakes? Saitek pedals? Let me know how that works out - I developed that feature using my own G940 pedals, and I have heard from a few people using it, all G940 users.

And multi-throttle setups are 'way cool' - but then one also realizes that one must fly planes - all the time - that have multi engines! Which is not the best thing for someone wanting to take on fighters. Sure, there's the Schwalbe, Pfiel, Zestörers and Lightning, but only the last two are typically ever available online, and then they tend to have an antiquated Me 110 vs late war fighters. One has nearly no chance. And then the P-38 Lightning is the only remaining realistic heavy fighter. Sigh.

For me, I just fly the 110 anyway and try to figure out how to employ it against late war Tempests, Spitfires and bombers (and ground targets).

T_O_A_D
02-02-2010, 01:01 AM
I've been using the X-45 rocker rudder banned to left and right engines for years, it works a treat on the twins. And taxiing the heavies around.

But it sounds like you have an even more finite control of the situation.

It's time to take a look.

MikkOwl
02-02-2010, 01:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
I've been using the X-45 rocker rudder banned to left and right engines for years, it works a treat on the twins. And taxiing the heavies around.

But it sounds like you have an even more finite control of the situation.

It's time to take a look. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The multi-engine stuff should work on any axis of a controller.

Toe-brakes must have a seperate axis for each brake however.

Let me know how it works out. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I hear so little feedback.

Sokol__1
02-02-2010, 03:35 PM
And, MikkOwl Multi-Throttle control single engine aircraft (fighters...) like you control with axis. In true, in more linear (1/2%) increments.

I use one Suncon SFS (F-15) throttle "USBified" with BU0836 and HALL sensor, and fly bombers and fighter. Don't have axis assigned to Power in IL-2 Controls HOTAS section.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sokol1

MikkOwl
03-03-2010, 04:58 PM
Version 4.0 change-log

Bug fixes:

- Fixed a bug where the brakes would not release fully when having used the toe brakes.
- Fixed a bug where if both toe brakes were pressed completely the brakes would set to zero.

Changes & Tweaks & New stuff:

- Can now close all windows it creates when exiting (ALT-E).
- Can now detect if user is in an aircraft and at the controls. Does not try to send any commands if escaped, not in control of the aircraft's flight controls, bailed out, main menu (being alt-tabbed does not count).
- Toe brakes no longer manipulate the rudder (for differential braking function) if either the tail-wheel is locked or the landing gear is retracted (no more accidents for some of you and landings should be much be more stable).
- Added ability to detecting button presses for setting up individual engine key controls (start & feather prop).
- Added support for trims (in order to make new trim tweaking possible). Assign any axis to any trim.
- Added ability to limit the range of trims for a much smoother, accurate, realistic and relaxed trim experience (all IL-2 aircraft have an enormous trim range in all directions, but our controllers do not = hypersensitive trimming).
- Added feature to off-set the trims to either side (most aircraft only need to trim the rudder/ailerons in one direction, meaning the other 50% is wasted movement range on our controllers and making trimming twitchier).
- Replaced the dozens of individual config executables with a single, graphical user interface setup program (phew.......). The Setup folder is also gone. G940_tweaks.ini merged into mikkonfig.ini and moved to DATA folder.
- Ability to assign any of the G940 trim wheels to any trims in-game instead of just R1 and R2 to Rudder-Elevator. With reversal bug removal extended to these other trims.
- Radiator support is back (the code is revised but no full setup program support - edit the .ini file if you really want to use it).
- Dual Prop. pitch support.
- Support for G940 throttle button LEDs for IL-2! (Am I the man or what? Logitech owes me a paycheck and you G940 users especially owe me a donation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ).
- Bonus: As information from devicelink and IL-2 is limited, wrote program functions to 'guesstimate' certain functions in order to provide more realistic LED behaviour.
- Bonus: One of the extra functions is a flap position indicator light, like the one in the Ju-88 A-4.
- Bonus: Like the real world Pe-2 and Pe-3, a LED button can now light up when the rudder trim is centered. (Knowing when the important rudder trim is centered can be difficult, especially on the G940 and even more with the new trim tweak abilities. Especially important for take-off).

Urufu_Shinjiro
03-04-2010, 12:08 PM
Awesome! I ordered a G940 and it should be here today, can't wait to try this stuff out!

MikkOwl
03-04-2010, 04:17 PM
Heh, knock yourself out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Let me know what you think and how it works out for you. So far only a single person commented on it and said it worked good on his G940. My beta tester gave plenty of positive feedback at least.

Regarding your new G940, I recommend having general force feedback strength to 100, and spring strength to no more than 70 (otherwise there's some bad effects that mess up controls more than helping immersion in any way). Damper does nothing, and then self-centering set to off. This is found in the G940 stick options in the game controller windows (control panel).

triad773
03-04-2010, 06:08 PM
Hi MikkOwl- I d/l'd this neat looking little program but I have a concern: I run AVG antivirus (latest version) and it is telling me that the archive (started with v.3 I think) contains a potentially harmful spyware component. Can you or anyone else say that this is a false positive because of AVG?

If anyone else scans the throttle archive (current version) with software other than AVG try a quick scan of the file and see if you get anything?

May be nothing, may be just AVG-- but it doesn't hurt to ask if anyone else had this potential issue.

Thanks

Triad

MikkOwl
03-04-2010, 07:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by triad773:
Hi MikkOwl- I d/l'd this neat looking little program but I have a concern: I run AVG antivirus (latest version) and it is telling me that the archive (started with v.3 I think) contains a potentially harmful spyware component. Can you or anyone else say that this is a false positive because of AVG?

If anyone else scans the throttle archive (current version) with software other than AVG try a quick scan of the file and see if you get anything?

May be nothing, may be just AVG-- but it doesn't hurt to ask if anyone else had this potential issue.

Thanks

Triad </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hi there. Did you read the first post in the topic? Or the documentation (which has always been included, and updated, for every release)?

triad773
03-04-2010, 09:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikkOwl:
Hi there. Did you read the first post in the topic? Or the documentation (which has always been included, and updated, for every release)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah-- thank you for that. I hadn't recalled seeing that; maybe I didn't see it or maybe it was added later, not sure.

Anyway thanks again- this is something I had been waiting for.

Cheers

Triad

MikkOwl
03-04-2010, 09:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by triad773:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikkOwl:
Hi there. Did you read the first post in the topic? Or the documentation (which has always been included, and updated, for every release)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah-- thank you for that. I hadn't recalled seeing that; maybe I didn't see it or maybe it was added later, not sure.

Anyway thanks again- this is something I had been waiting for.

Cheers

Triad </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Many people have e-mailed, PM:ed or posted in topics about it since I switched to DeviceLink interface in version 3.0 instead of having the program press keyboard buttons to change the throttles. I saw some German forum where people freaked out and even submitted it to some online analysis, which came back saying it was just plain old NetCat, which has the potential to be used for network evil (being a network util). Version 3.0 came out after January 20 I think sometime, and for that one once I heard of a few reports I investigated and then updated the documentation/posts about it. Version 3.1 was released in Jan 28, and the info regarding virus alerts has been definitely there since :P

I think people have a natural tendency to skip reading pre-emptive warnings and manuals/instructions. And if it has become worse these days, it's because firstly, there's so much more information we have to deal with. Secondly, all those huge "you must read these 10,000 word license agreements and ONLY click OK if you agree with ALL OF IT" things that come with every damned program out there. Even I have a little bit of that. It's a funny theory but probably has some truth to it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What kind of controllers do you use it with? Ever used any of the old versions of multi-throttle? You mentioned 'ever since version 3.0'. People read the topics and download it a lot but I get little feedback when things work right, only when things don't work people tell me.

If there's any hint of embitterment in this post, it is completely because Logitech, out of all companies, just removed my topic announcing 4.0 from their official forum for the G940. Without any explanation. It is very rare to see a company act in such completely useless manner for every person involved. Hope they have a really good explanation for that one, like "There were reports of VIRUSES in a link there, which is now an issue even though your other software using the exact same VIRUS alerts were not removed!".

triad773
03-05-2010, 08:25 AM
Hey MikkOwl- I use Saitek Throttle 'Quad,' and an old Evo Force FFB stick (and pedals).

I d/l'd v.2 I think, played with it some, then got a ton of work I had to dive into. Came back later, d/l'd the next version, got snowed in again with work so had to drop all that for a while.

Yeah I'd heard of some mods having false positives. It happens.

MikkOwl
03-05-2010, 01:55 PM
I have the Saitek Quadrant also. I presume you are not using the levers for prop pitch control, as you don't have enough for a twin engined plane. But one thing still works great for it - assign the 'reversal' position for throttle lever 1 and 2 (all the way down - triggers a button) to "Feather Prop 1" and "Feather Prop 2". Unless you have better uses for them already.

I use my Quadrant for prop pitch x 2 and one is flaps. All the way down reversal position is feather. And this is exactly how the real Bf 110 prop pitch selectors worked (I saw pictures up close - the bottom notch is feather position).

Do post an update later on how the program works for you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Urufu_Shinjiro
03-05-2010, 02:08 PM
I hope to have time to install and play with this tonight but I downloaded it last night and read the install instructions and have a question. When you say to clear the controls in Il2, what exactly do you mean?

MikkOwl
03-05-2010, 02:46 PM
It means that, if you use any axis or button through Multi-Throttle, it should not also be assigned in IL-2 itself. This applies to both functions (like say, elevator trim and throttles) and the specific controller axis/button itself (say, your left G940 throttle, the rotary wheels, and buttons).

Technical explanation (if anyone is curious) to why specifically it is not good:

Otherwise either two controllers might control the same function, or one controller might perform the same (slightly different) function inside IL-2 and through multi-throttle.

To explain what could happen if you left one of the throttles assigned to POWER in the HOTAS section of IL-2, and also used multi-throttle to control the engine power:

1. Multi-throttle doesn't send just a specific command to move an engine throttle to a new position, it must actually send a command to switch to the engine in question, then another command to set the 'power' to the intended level.

2. The native IL-2 controls are polled and react a few milliseconds faster than through multi-throttle and devicelink. If having the right throttle bound to power in IL-2 as well as using it through multi-throttle, if you last moved the left engine, that engine is selected. Moving the right throttle, IL-2 snaps it up first (controlling power) and, since the left engine is selected, it sets the left engine to the right engine's power. A couple of milliseconds later, multi-throttle's commands arrive - select right engine and set power to the right throttle. In practice, it would look as if the right throttle can move both throttles sometimes, while the left one just moves the left.

Urufu_Shinjiro
03-05-2010, 02:58 PM
Ok, so only functions specifically set to an axis or button in Multi-Throttle need to be blank in the il2 control section. I think I got it.

MikkOwl
03-05-2010, 06:12 PM
Right http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Let's see if you become a twin engine fanatic now with your G940 and this app. I became one. Before, I always went for the lightest, most maneuverable thing around, sacrificing firepower for manueverability and all that. Now I'm in love with the Bf-110 and even getting drawn toward twin engined bombers like the Ju-88 and the He-111. Having two throttles can affect a person in mysterious ways. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

fabianfred
03-06-2010, 03:20 AM
Too right... it was impossible to take-off in the Wellington before this.

FM_Weasel
04-17-2010, 08:24 PM
Hey Mikk,

Your program seemed like a neat idea so I checked it out. Unfortunately, I cannot get it to work. After following the instructions, all of my G940 lights stay off and the brakes do not function. I didn't see an option to configure the brakes in the software, is that done automatically?

Also, only one console opens when I run the program. The instructions indicate there should be three. Any ideas?