View Full Version : Which do you think........

02-10-2004, 01:23 PM

02-10-2004, 01:23 PM

02-10-2004, 01:39 PM
I would say transparent bars. It'll be interesting to see how its done in BoB. I bet the whining will be with us untill flat screen play is history.


02-10-2004, 01:48 PM
I really like the idea of up/down/right/left head movement. I think it simulates the real movement of a person's head.

The transparent bars would be a second choice, but the problem I see with that is "Looking down". A person can tilt his head and look over the side of the cockpit. Would we then also make the first few virtual inches of the cockpit framing transparent? That would be silly looking.

So, that brings me back to the head tilting thing. I love the cockpits in this game. They are probably the number one selling point of the sim, even above the FM's and DM's. Some of the pits, especially the later ones are breath taking.

As a matter of fact, let me salute all you developers that make these wonderful works of art. Looking at the earlier pits, you have all grown in knowledge and ability to an astounding level. Some of the pits look totally real!


02-10-2004, 01:51 PM
I voted for leave it as it is. You have the option of cockpit off or on.
If they put transparent cockpit bars in BOB. I hope that transparent on or off will be avalible. Part of the challenge for me is trying to shoot when the target is behind a bar in a deflection shot, but that's just my preference http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif



02-10-2004, 01:55 PM
I like the idea of modified transparent cockpit bars...some center portion of the bar that is modelled like what we have now, with some portion of the edges semi transparent so you can see a plane at close range.

Thats probably the simplest solution...

I can only imagine the outcry over which side's pilots have better head movement modelling.

Semi transparent canopy sills is a cool idea too, never thought of that one lol.

Formerly TX-Zen

02-10-2004, 01:59 PM
I like the idea of the ability to move one's head about in the cockpit, but such a scheme would require even more control dedicated to it than we have now. If such a change were to be made, using a mouse or hat stick wouldn't be enough to control the veiw. More buttons would have to be dedicated to move head up, cown, left and right. Perhaps all this would work for Track IR users, but the rest of us are then left out in the cold.

This is a tough question, and I don't know the best answer. I know I don't like the transparent/removed cockpit/bars optoins, but thats my preference.

02-10-2004, 02:09 PM
Thanks to Biggs' battle against the Empire, we now have removable cockpit bars. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

(that was a joke, see --> " http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif " )

I vote for....Cockpit Bears.

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02-10-2004, 02:09 PM
I vote for no.3 too, but like others have said configuring quickly accessible keys in dogfight would be a burden...
Unless someone could think of something. Perhaps incorporating it with TIR? Then you`ll need to buy that too.

Not an easy situation for everyone.



02-10-2004, 02:15 PM
I think the head movement is a practical innovation which can be fairly easily done and it shouldn't cause much consternation. People can move in their cockpits...its not like they are locked into place although I'm sure it'd be prudent to have that dynamically affected by the level of G forces impacting on the pilot.

What would be interesting...and probably impractical (in terms of processing power) would be to render a composite image based on stereoscopic vision which would give us a better idea of what a WWII pilot would actually see. Our eyes and brain are great at merging two separate images to create one continous one that we don't really notice is a composite unless you cover one eye and see how much you aren't seeing. Maybe by 2010 we could do this on a regular basis http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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02-10-2004, 02:40 PM
I like the Left-Right Up-Down head movement. Don't know if its possible, but judging from the popularity of TrackIR, it would definitely be a plus.


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02-10-2004, 02:50 PM
A stereoscopic image would be best.
just switch between two camera positions every frame and wear glasses that darken one glass in sync with the game's framerate and you're set.

There are such glasses from eDimensional (I think) that do just that and plug into your video card.
It even lists IL2 as a supported game.
I don't know how this affects framerates.

Semitransparent frames are the simplest solution and require little control from the player or hardware purchases.

being able to move ones virtual head will allow to look past cockpit frames but can you control both your head's position and direction (6 variables: elevation, azimuth, forward/backward, left/right, up/down, zoom) in a busy fight?

A variant to this is to place the camera a bit behind or in front of the point around which it rotates.
In this case rotating the view will also change the position of the camera and it is simpler to control.

02-10-2004, 02:50 PM
I'd really dislike transparent bars. I think it would not look realistic at all in the end. That's one thing that'd put me off a game. Honeslty I rather have the bars as we have now than have transparent bars. Head movement is a very nice idea however.


The first official D12 whiner!

02-10-2004, 03:03 PM
An addition:
What about semitransparent sticks/obtrusions that block instruments?
Yanking the stick to one side is not a good way to see an instrument.

02-10-2004, 03:20 PM
I vote against any transparansies. However,headmovement ability would be terrific for immersiveness as long as it did'nt require key/stick button presses and you had to return to center to aim.


02-10-2004, 07:22 PM
As much as I would like to see #3, there is no way possible that one could move their head in a sim close enough to real life for it to matter without using something like TrackIR. Ergo, my vote goes to the transparent bars.
Another idea would be to only remove the top half of the cockpit and call that "cockpit off". I hate the fullness of the cockpit off view, but I hate the unrealistic views in cockpit on more.
Of course what I really want is a sliding canopy!


02-10-2004, 07:32 PM
None of the above.

wider field of views.

That will make the cockpit bars automatically smaller. And because you can see more sky it won't feel as claustrofobic either. Plus you'll get a better sense of speed, better sense of flight and better sense of spatial awareness.

02-10-2004, 07:45 PM
I have to say option #1, that would be great. However maybe something just a little more complex than having them be transparent.

I would say #3 if it was implemented properly and easy to use. In real life you wouldn't have to move your head much.

An idea for #3 would simply be to have a key mapped to your joystick that acted like a shift key for the hat switch. Normally it would make you look around, then by hitting the proposed "shift" key it would then move your head. It would take some getting used to but I think it could work.

Good poll btw.



[This message was edited by kyrule2 on Tue February 10 2004 at 06:55 PM.]

02-10-2004, 07:50 PM
I'll go for transparent cockpit bars.

Of course it should have an on/off options. As has been said, that's true transparent bars wouldn't LOOK nice. I think that having the bars the way there are now, WITH the ability to turn them transparent with a keystroke (and back, or just transparent as long as you're pressing the key) would be a good way to do it. It would leave us with the nice usual cokpit, and allow us to get the transparent bars only when looking for traffic (errr for boggey) as if we were "moving our head", sort of... Kind of: "hehe you won't be hidding behind my bar this time" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

Complete control of the head (up, down, etc) would be nice too, but yes, maybe difficult to deal with.


02-10-2004, 09:10 PM
Why not just keep the same head movement keys as now but make the alternate movements say.......SHIFT+1, or 2 or 3 or whatever. That way which ever direction your head would turn with the # buttons would only be accentuated with the shift key. For those like me with a mouse pan onthe throttle or TIR all we would need would basically be 3 **** inputs-L,R,U and we could use the same key to center that we do now. Something like SHIFT+4,8 &6. I think it is doable. For those who dont have that kind of setup it would get dicey but hey let's face it..... If you are playing this sim with one controller you are limitting yourself anyway. Sure the keyboard is usable..but even a Nostromo game pad would be a good additional controller..and since FB supports it flawlessly (additional controls) to NOT have at least 2 (3 if you still count the keyboard) is just not stretching the immersion as far as it can go. For me the pedals-X45-MSFFB setup is the ultimate... the only thing i am missing is head panning and for now at least I can use mouse panning on the X45 just as effectively. All this doesnt keep me in the air any longer on HL...LMAO http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif but I sure do have a lot of fun no matter how it goes. Add to thatShoot 1.6 and you are almost there....

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02-10-2004, 09:13 PM
har har @ lex

mr witty

02-10-2004, 09:14 PM


02-10-2004, 09:21 PM
uhhhhh yeah... what Kyrule said......

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02-11-2004, 06:09 AM
I think a lean left and right would be a better alternative for BOB, increasing look back left and right slightly on gunsite zoom. A smooth transition from wide view to gunsite view simulating a lean instead of instant view. something like the small increments but in a very smooth fast transition. Also 8 hat smooth panning like lomac, fs2004 and janes wwii fighters. New view is good but its not smooth as the three above.

I think the transparent canopy bars would require so much work and its not worth it to me for EZ settings, it increase HDD space alot becuase it would require 2 seperate cockpit models and texture sets. It wouldnt help people advance to the next difficulty level but they would just play those settings only like they do no pit and externals now.

It seems the majority fly EZ settings only online ase ubi and HL they have been since il2 sturmovik. They never will advance to the harder difficulty settings so for them it would be a good alternative. and im sure they would leave externals on too.

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