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View Full Version : Great news - Oleg is working on better object visibility in PF



Bogun
11-11-2004, 11:46 AM
One of my major complains in FB+AEP was inability to see aerial and ground objects
at the ranges when they should be visible (in my opinion).
Many of us complained and were asking Oleg to help with the problem.
He listened and here is a screenshot of how it may look soon.
I absolutely love it!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Bogun/grab0000.jpg
Hope to see it in the upcoming patch.

clint-ruin
11-11-2004, 11:48 AM
Yay!

Hmm, I wonder if they are also upgrading the AIs awareness range so they'll be able to 'see' the dots too now?

ucanfly
11-11-2004, 11:50 AM
OMG - this is the greatest fix enhancement to this sim since - ever. I'm going blind trying to find these planes less than 1 km away at normal FOV. IF it is true I vote for Oleg as master of all that he surveys!

Hunde_3.JG51
11-11-2004, 12:08 PM
Since I play at 1600x1200 (I can see planes objects MUCH better at 1024x768 but I can't accept the graphical hit with 21-inch monitor) this is a HUGE issue for me. This would indeed be a great fix, one of the best so far IMHO.

Thanks for posting, is there a way you could point me to the direct quote?

Thanks.

OldMan____
11-11-2004, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
Since I play at 1600x1200 (I can see planes objects MUCH better at 1024x768 but I can't accept the graphical hit with 21-inch monitor) this is a HUGE issue for me. This would indeed be a great fix, one of the best so far IMHO.

Thanks for posting, is there a way you could point me to the direct quote?

Thanks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can solve your problem, give me your 21 inch monitor and I will mail entirely for free a 17 inch monitor where your 1024x768 resolutin will not hurt your sthetic feeling. And is not onlyu that! Call now and you will recive entirely for free a monitor support that looks like exactly like a computer networks book!!!

A.K.Davis
11-11-2004, 12:44 PM
How about ships? Will they continue to pop into view with huge LODs at unrealistic distances? Will we be able to order our wingmen to attack ships from realistic distances?

jimmie_T
11-11-2004, 02:29 PM
bump

VMF-214_HaVoK
11-11-2004, 02:59 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Has to be one of the best fixes ever...if not the best IMO

=S=

raaaid
11-11-2004, 03:48 PM
wow this listening to the gamers is what makes this sim the best

now id wish for bob we were able to see the nose of our planes for better visivility

VMF-214_HaVoK
11-11-2004, 03:52 PM
Could you post the link to the original source?

=S=

TC_Stele
11-11-2004, 04:08 PM
Wow, that's great news, especially for the bombers. When I'm at about 3500+ I can barely see anything and when I do it's almost too late.

Great to hear! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

AnalFissure
11-11-2004, 04:37 PM
oleg finally gets his *** in gear with regards to something that should have been fixed in one of the first patches to the original IL2 and everybody trips over themselves with excitement (me included -- hey it's a good fix for a real problem).

It's almost disgusting, and just goes to show how stagnant this franchise has become.

AnalFissure
11-11-2004, 04:39 PM
At this rate, maybe we'll have sub-fifty cal machine guns that don't suck within the next ten to fifteen years!

AnalFissure
11-11-2004, 04:43 PM
"now id wish for bob we were able to see the nose of our planes for better visivility"

For this one we may need twenty.

VMF223_Smitty
11-11-2004, 04:48 PM
Hey Anal
Appropriate name

clint-ruin
11-11-2004, 04:56 PM
Olestra is wicked stuff for weeping sphincters.

Airmikey2
11-11-2004, 05:38 PM
I dont see 'em.. somebody turn on the padlock, please...

Airmikey

Airmikey2
11-11-2004, 05:40 PM
Nevermind - I see it now... Is that an LA7 or LA5..? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

carguy_
11-11-2004, 05:52 PM
Truly I don`t see any kind of an improvement on the screenie.

Though it would be the best fix next to MF fix.

I don`t require planes to be completely able to be IDed but at least they should be visible.Those little dots hurt my eyes.It is obviously not so easy to change.Maybe set the rendering graphics to distinguish plane textures with top priority?

I need to see something,not like I make a lookaround every 10 seconds and the next thing I see someone 500m behind me.

Spitfire is king of camouflage here.Almost unvisible in the background from 300m.

LEXX_Luthor
11-11-2004, 06:04 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Hunde:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> is there a way you could point me to the direct quote? Thanks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>VMF:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Could you post the link to the original source? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks Hunde and VMF. First independent thinking responses here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

What is that screenshot?

Where did screenshot come from?

From Oleg? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif
From PhotoShop? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Hunde_3.JG51
11-11-2004, 06:18 PM
Lexx, notice I said "is there a way you could point me to the direct quote" first http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif.

But seriously, this "would be" a nice fix if it is true and I would really like to see the source if possible.

Athosd
11-11-2004, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
Truly I don`t see any kind of an improvement on the screenie.

Though it would be the best fix next to MF fix.

I don`t require planes to be completely able to be IDed but at least they should be visible.Those little dots hurt my eyes.It is obviously not so easy to change.Maybe set the rendering graphics to distinguish plane textures with top priority?

I need to see something,not like I make a lookaround every 10 seconds and the next thing I see someone 500m behind me.

Spitfire is king of camouflage here.Almost unvisible in the background from 300m. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't see it at first either, contrast on one of my work monitors is a bit off. The 'Dot' has been changed from a single black speck to a black speck with a white speck - at closer range it looks like a white speck with a black one either side. It will certainly improve detection.

One feature I really liked in MiG Alley was the flashes of sunlight off the cockpit canopies - that made detection at long range a lot easier (in the right circumstances).

Cheers

Athos

Athosd
11-11-2004, 06:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
How about ships? Will they continue to pop into view with huge LODs at unrealistic distances? Will we be able to order our wingmen to attack ships from realistic distances? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be great - its a little irritating when weaving through thick AAA and your flight all report "unable" when you order them to attack the ships right under their noses.

Detection of ships by AI seems to only have the same range as regular ground targets. While I can appreciated that ground targets would actually be a lot harder to spot than they are in the game - a 20,000 tonne warship on the open sea is a little more obvious (particularly when blazing away with all guns).

Salute

Athos

Stiglr
11-11-2004, 07:24 PM
Hard to tell from a still screengrab (since it's motion that gives a "dot" away most of the time, but this new treatment looks like it could be an improvement. I'd like to see it over forest, and over water too.

I'll call it the "rivet": it looks like a 2D art trick you use to create a raised rivet on a skin: you have a darker dot on top of a lighter dot, and offset them a tiny bit diagonally. Makes it look raised. That's what these kind of look like.

LEXX_Luthor
11-11-2004, 07:32 PM
Looks like it would work for me.

The sad thing, what they really need is not just a white pixel added next to a black pixel, but just MORE black pixels, the number depending on target size and range (and possibly orientation but that's a bit more deeper).


Hunde http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif my post is fixed, thanks!

ucanfly
11-11-2004, 09:23 PM
I can't see that much of an SBD at 800 meters let alone 4 km. If it is true I am glad Oleg is at least addressing this issue as it is the source of constant unending frustration with this game to the point at which I stop playing it for months on end.

Being a contrarian doesn't make you independent as much as it makes you "different". Aren't you special!

BaldieJr
11-11-2004, 09:26 PM
canopy reflections are a cool idea.

this looks kinda hoax-like to me.

Bogun
11-11-2004, 10:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
Thanks for posting, is there a way you could point me to the direct quote?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hunde_3.JG51, VMF-214_HaVoK, LEXX_Luthor

I don€t have Oleg€s original quote - I just was asked to post this screenshot here.
It was originally posted on one of the Russian IL-2 forums, I think €" Red Rodgers, but I could not find the org. post. It is not a hoax.

LEXX_Luthor
11-12-2004, 12:40 AM
Thanks for the further comment. Tell more about the screenshot if you can. Thanks.

VVS-Manuc
11-12-2004, 03:05 AM
where are the enhanced planes? I can see only a long row of little black+white dots. I cannot imagine that these are all planes, the row is too straight and the distance between the dots is always the same

AFJ_Locust
11-12-2004, 04:36 AM
I dont see any Ground Objects in that pic

Buzzer1
11-12-2004, 05:01 AM
Are people looking at all?
You see a long line of planes.
To the left of them is the shadow.
To the right are 4 greenish dots in a line.
Notice how they gradually merge into the landscape, gradually disappearing, instead of a sudden pop-up.

Guess there is an improvement in the plane as well - a tad more detailed instead of a single black pixel.
Looks promising imho.

TgD Thunderbolt56
11-12-2004, 06:37 AM
Curious we still haven't seen a link or verification of any of this as being fact. Only a pipedream I'd wager.

AFJ_Skyghost
11-12-2004, 08:00 AM
aren't those tags above the targets to much arcade?? after all, in real war, there were no identifications tags over the targets? what happened to the hard core simmers, the full real convicts, the anti arcade brigade? Did they finally realised you can't spot a target when you fly 3000 mts high if the target is on the deck? what is the diference between a ground target and a plane flying 200 mts high to a plane who is flying at 3 or 4000 high?... so much for full real immersion, right...

actionhank1786
11-12-2004, 08:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AFJ_Skyghost:
aren't those tags above the targets to much arcade?? after all, in real war, there were no identifications tags over the targets? what happened to the hard core simmers, the full real convicts, the anti arcade brigade? Did they finally realised you can't spot a target when you fly 3000 mts high if the target is on the deck? what is the diference between a ground target and a plane flying 200 mts high to a plane who is flying at 3 or 4000 high?... so much for full real immersion, right... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suppose he could have left them off and you could have wasted 40 minutes of your life searching for the new pixels.
They're there to point out the new feature.

Bogun
11-12-2004, 08:35 AM
LEXX_Luthor, read your PM.

As I understand, the problem with visibility originated from the limitations of the current computer monitors/video cards. You simply cannot display anything in the computer screen if it size is smaller then the pixel. At some screen resolution (my screen resolution for example - 1024x768), at some distance (let say for example - 3km) size of the objects becomes smaller then the size of the unit of the computer screen resolution €" €œthe pixel€ €" this is it, this is a limit of what object size can be shown. Currently in the game objects on the ground just disappear at some distance, objects in the air become semitransparent pixels (which are very hard to track) unlike in the real life, where they would still stay somewhat visible even at considerably greater distances. People who run IL-2 at resolutions greater then mine, should theoretically be able to see objects farther, but because of large amount of small details on the screen would probably still have hard time.

It look to me that someone was trying to test new visibility scheme when he took this screenshot. He probably placed flying aircrafts on a grid in FMB exactly 0.5km apart and on a right of them €" row after row of four tanks (or some other ground objects) each also 0.5km apart. Both - objects in the air and ground objects fade away as distance increases.

There were few threads in ORR asking to help with visibility and I believe they had been heard.

RedDeth
11-12-2004, 01:14 PM
in reply to vmf havoc.... GO STEELERS YEE HAA!!!


quack.

pixels is pixels. hopefully planes will look like planes at 1000 meters distant instead of dots

VMF-214_HaVoK
11-12-2004, 04:29 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

http://www.printroom.com/pro/steelers/Black%20and%20Gold.jpg

KGr.HH-Sunburst
11-12-2004, 07:17 PM
if this is true then its the biggest improvement ever together with the new MF ,BnZ is gonna be a dream in a 190 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
its my number 1 problem not being able to spot dots over the ground so i stay at lower alt to see them above the horizon
funny thing is i see ground object very clear but planes are almost invisible at the same distance.

i think its true because i heard oleg saying somewhere that we are going to have some unexpected changes ,so hopes up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Il2pongo
11-12-2004, 08:39 PM
Just incase people really cant tell what is signifigant about the screen shot.

There is a line of aircraft stretching out in front of the ones with icons below the La5. They seem to be about 800 yards appart. So the farthest ones are 8000? yards? but you can still see that something is there. That is a vast improvement over what we currently have.

LEXX_Luthor
11-12-2004, 09:53 PM
Thanks Bogun.

VMF or serial moderators, can you take out that big Steeler pic page 2? It trashes the thread. Thanks.

I program spacecraft sim, and all the stars are *way* smaller objects than a pixel, however some stars are much brighter and so must be rendered as multiple pixels (assuming max pixel brightness is already used for the brightest single pixel rendered stars). What you do in flight sim is if an aircraft target is too small, you just bump up the size into multiple pixels. Original DOS Flaker 1.0 did this, one pixel aircraft for distant targets, 5 pixel crosses for nearby targets but still too far to see the aircraft grafic. The number of pixels should scale with monitor resolution however. This could be tricky, and may best be left as optional setting for home user. For onwhine internet Dogfight play, that could be a Cheat, but la la...

RedDeth
11-12-2004, 11:05 PM
Lexx luthor must be an oakland raider fan if he wants that pic gone.


HERE WE GO STEELERS HERE WE GOOOO !!!! all will fall before the steel curtain

Hunde_3.JG51
11-12-2004, 11:50 PM
I say GO COLTS!

http://www.indianapoliscoltsproshop.com/images/products/large/coltsbank.jpg

All will fall before the big....corn wielding....guy.....awww forget it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif



.

Atomic_Marten
11-13-2004, 02:42 AM
This must be one of the best news lately. Looking forward to it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fennec_P
11-13-2004, 03:06 AM
A nice change, but would be nice to see it confirmed.

On another topic, Oleg told me that the MiG-29 will finally be added to PF in the coming patch. It is flyable, but not in the beta patch that Oleg sent me. Here is a screen.

http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/sc.jpg

Unforunately, the cockpit for the Arrow is not yet done, so it will be only AI.

Hunde_3.JG51
11-13-2004, 03:26 AM
Pffft. Mig-29 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif, just another target for my FW-190A-9. But its always good to have more cr*p planes.

(Mig-29) 1x30mm cannon vs. (FW-190A-9) 2x30mm cannon + 2x20mm cannon + 2x13mm machine guns. Hardly seems fair to me.

BM357_Raven
11-15-2004, 02:02 AM
ok then...

A.K.Davis
11-15-2004, 08:19 AM
Okay, someone has posted over at SimHQ that they received an e-mail response from Oleg on this issue indicating that no changes would be made to visibility in this engine. One or the other of the "direct-line-to-Oleg" posters deserves a spanking.

crazyivan1970
11-15-2004, 09:28 AM
Confirming what AKD said, there will be no changes in current engine. Come on folks, let O man concentrate on BOB already, you demanding spoiled brats http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Platypus_1.JaVA
11-15-2004, 10:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TC_Stele:
Wow, that's great news, especially for the bombers. When I'm at about 3500+ I can barely see anything and when I do it's almost too late.

Great to hear! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try flying a real aircraft at 3500M/10.000ft and distinguish individual cars.

REALLY, cars, tanks and stuff are supposed to be almost invisble at that altitude. That's what carpet/area bombing is for. Even ships wheren't attacked from much higher then 10.000ft in level bombing. Of course also for precison...

Bogun
11-15-2004, 11:12 AM
It would be interesting to hear from real pilots at what distance they can see/identify different objects on the ground and in the air.

pacettid
11-15-2004, 11:54 AM
Having flown hi-perf props in the USN, the sim does not do ground objects very well, compared to the way you see them in "the real world" but it is still the best sim around, bar none.

LEXX_Luthor
11-17-2004, 06:01 PM
Found interesting if freaky partial solution to visibility...for aircraft closer than dot range.

Use Void skins on all planes on summer maps, use dark skins on winter maps. May be helpful to take a Void skin and use a paing program to color the top dark but leave bottom white. The airplanes are visible. Exception is all modds of Ki~61 which turns to a single pixel dot at a mere 1.2km. I~16 turns to dot at ~1.5km. Bf~109 turns to dot at lol 3km.

The alternative is icons. Trying to decide which is the less unrealistic. mmmm

Slantaye
11-18-2004, 11:03 AM
that was a russian plane bias. german planes visible to 3k and russian planes disappear in less than half that distance. check it out. its true

ucanfly
11-18-2004, 11:20 AM
Ah man if this fix turns out to be a bogus thing it is a tremendous letdown. The dot visibility "enhancement" that occurred back in IL2 in which planes within 1 km disappear easily from view has really left me scratching my head. This is one of those "features" that should have been addressed with FB let alone AEP or PF.

Sometimes I really hate the internet.

BSS_Goat
11-19-2004, 05:26 AM
Humble pie anyone?

F19_Orheim
11-19-2004, 05:34 AM
visibility is now great.... it was allllll true ! Best improvement EVER, now at last I can crank up my graphics and run this game as it should be run..... with detailshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SeaFireLIV
11-19-2004, 05:52 AM
Threads like this can be incredibly confusing.
Yes it is, no it isn`t, yes it is, yes it might be, no it`s not - now it IS in the Patch! GAHHHHH!

Can`t wait till I get it D\L so I can see and finally confirm for myself! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

NegativeGee
11-19-2004, 06:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Threads like this can be incredibly confusing.
Yes it is, no it isn`t, yes it is, yes it might be, no it`s not - now it IS in the Patch! GAHHHHH!

Can`t wait till I get it D\L so I can see and finally confirm for myself! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bogun speaks the truth, be sure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

A.K.Davis
11-19-2004, 08:35 AM
I would just be interested to know why Oleg told Recon and CrazyIvan that no changes would be made to visibility. He is a strange man at times.

carguy_
11-19-2004, 08:37 AM
Hmm but the patch DID change the visibility.Still not perfect but a nice improvement.A blurry dot is now a black clear dot and planes don`t dissapear in the background.