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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 10:43 PM
This plane is exceptionally beautiful and it speaks to me in many ways. But what was its strong points and weak points. I read that it was fast and manouverable. Are there any pilot reports on it from friend and foe! Please tell me!

Thanks!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 10:43 PM
This plane is exceptionally beautiful and it speaks to me in many ways. But what was its strong points and weak points. I read that it was fast and manouverable. Are there any pilot reports on it from friend and foe! Please tell me!

Thanks!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/robban75/Dorarote6.JPG


'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 10:48 PM
Imagine a cross-breed between a Spitfire and a La-5FN, with maneuverability like the Spit and acceleration/speed characteristics like the La-5FN.

..

Dump in 100 Octane, and add a 427mph top speed to the equation.



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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 11:00 PM
So, it's a fighter that will be banned from alot of on-line servers!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 11:23 PM
Hmm, the Ki-84-line didn't exceed the 392 mph.



Remember a simple upgrade of octane doesn't result in higher topspeed. That's a myth set by some authors long time ago and seems to stay in the mind of many.


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Message Edited on 08/06/0311:34PM by KIMURA

fluke39
08-06-2003, 11:33 PM
robban75 wrote:
- So, it's a fighter that will be banned from alot of
- on-line servers!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

hehe /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

let us also not forget that if it is like the majority of other jap planes it should snap in half from the air disturbance from a passing bullet.

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 11:35 PM
Yes, Japanese planes were know to be very sensitive to bullets.

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 11:40 PM
"Codenamed "Frank" by the Allies, the Ki-84 of the Imperial army was generally regrded as the best Japanese fighter of WW II.
Yet it was not without it's problems.
Part of it's fine all round performance stemmed from the extremely advanced direct-injection engine, the first army version of the navy NK9A; yet this engine gave constant trouble and needed skilled maintenance.
T. Koyama designed the Ki-84 to greater strength factors than earlier Japanese warplane, yet the poor heat-treatment of the high strength steel meant that landing gears often simply snapped.
Progressive deterioration in quality control meant that pilots never knew how particular aircraft would perform, whether brakes would work or whether, in trying to intercept B-29s over Japan, they would even bea ble to climb high enough.
Despite this, the Ki-84 was potentially superb, a captured -Ia out-climbing and outmanouvring a P-51H and P-47N!
First batches went to China, where the 22nd Sentai flew rings round Gen Chennault's 14th Air Force.
The unit then mnoved to Phillippines, where the rot set in, with accidents,shortages and extremely poor serviceability.
Frequent bombing of the Musashi engine factory and extreme need to conserve raw material led to various projects and prototypes made of wood or steel, and advanced models with the 2000Hp Ha-45ru turbocharged engine, Ha-45/44 with two-stage three-speed blower and 2500hp Ha-44/13.
Total production of the Hayate(Hurricane) was 3514 (2619 at Ohta , 727 at Utsonomiya and 95 in Manchuria by Mansyu, which also flew the Ki-116 with smaller Ha-112 engine) and three at Tatchikawa."
From the book 'German,Italian and Japanese fighters of WWII' by Bill Gunston.

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XyZspineZyX
08-06-2003, 11:43 PM
KIMURA wrote:
- Remember a simple upgrade of octane doesn't result
- in higher topspeed.


Your statement is true only if the compression ratio and spark advance remain unchanged.

Higher octane fuel permits the use of a higher compression ratio and/or more spark advance. Both of these factors will improve the output of an internal combustion engine. Greater torque and horsepower will improve both speed and acceleration.


Blutarski

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 12:04 AM
I know Blutarski/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

There some modis needed on the engine to have a full use of higher octane grade. Some in here are still in the believe that a simple refill of higher octane fuel results in some "magic" additional performance.

The Ki-84 passed some 425+mph while testing in the US, after the war, but there was some work needed at the engine to have access to higher performance. Common factory fresh Ki-84 didn't exceed ca.393mph. So it's neither a magic plane nor a UFO. It's surely 40-60mph slower than P-51 and 109



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XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 12:09 AM
KIMURA wrote:
- The Ki-84 passed some 425+mph while testing in the
- US, after the war, but there was some work needed at
- the engine to have access to higher performance.
- Common factory fresh Ki-84 didn't exceed ca.393mph.
- So it's neither a magic plane nor a UFO. It's surely
- 40-60mph slower than P-51 and 109
-

Excellent points. I still look forward to flying it, but mainly shooting it down. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 12:44 AM
fluke39 wrote:

let us also not forget that if it is like the
- majority of other jap planes it should snap in half
- from the air disturbance from a passing bullet.

No way! The Ki-84 Hayate was just as tough as allied aircraft with armour plate and protected fuel tanks. Not as fast as a mustang, but more maneuverable.

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caccia buon!

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XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 01:08 AM
KIMURA wrote:
The Ki-84 passed some 425+mph while testing in the
- US, after the war, but there was some work needed at
- the engine to have access to higher performance.
- Common factory fresh Ki-84 didn't exceed ca.393mph.
- So it's neither a magic plane nor a UFO. It's surely
- 40-60mph slower than P-51 and 109

Wow. I didn't know the Ki84 was capable of those speeds.It says alot for the quality of the designs Japanese engineers produced, even if production skills/quailit was still below the level of other countries. Do you know where i can find a pilots report on the testing the US did on japanse planes ?
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/yak11/autresyaks/df002.jpg

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Message Edited on 08/06/0307:12PM by Saburo_0

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 06:22 AM
japanese engineers dropped a Radial Engine into a KI-84
( i think it was a Focke Wulf 190 motor )
it was called the KI-100

it was a little overpowered for the airframe 9 weight wise as well ) but she was as fast as the P-51 & surprised all american pilots who encountered it

the KI-84 had better all round performance but the KI-100 was faster ( probably still had the goods over 109 / p-51 in combat turns )

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 10:18 AM
- the KI-84 had better all round performance but the
- KI-100 was faster ( probably still had the goods
- over 109 / p-51 in combat turns )


Hmm. The Ki-100 was a compromise to solve problems the Ki-61 with their Ha-40 and Ha-140 liquid-cooled engines. Both types on engines lacked on performance caused in constant overheating due poor quality. (Japanese had very limited expierience on liquid-cooled engines.) Ki-100 was in fact a Ki-61 with a Ha-112-II radial engine. Caused of slightly bader aerodynamic the topspeed decreasd by some 40mph down to ca. 340mph for the Ki-100 instead of ca. 380mph for the Ki-61-II. The Ki-100 with it's Ha-112 was built after some studies of an imported Fw190A-5, which was brought to Japan, earlier.


The Ki-84 was IIRC the fastest common layout prop-driven a/c that saw combat.

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XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 02:31 PM
robban75 wrote:
- This plane is exceptionally beautiful and it speaks
- to me in many ways. But what was its strong points
- and weak points. I read that it was fast and
- manouverable. Are there any pilot reports on it from
- friend and foe! Please tell me!
-
-

FROM: http://www.angelfire.com/fm/compass/Hayate.htm

"Forget it - it's a Frank." It is said that this comment was made frequently by USAAF personnel watching radar screens on Okinawa in the closing weeks of the Pacific War. It was customary to watch for a contact to appear and then to scramble P-51 Mustangs to intercept the enemy aircraft. But when the blip was moving so fast that it was inferred to be one of the advanced new Japanese Hayate fighters it would be assumed that the P-51s would stand no chance of catching the intruder.

Generally regarded as the best Japanese fighter of World War Two, the Hayate{'Hurricane') was nonetheless not without its problems. Much of its superlative all-round performance stemmed from its extremely advanced direct-injection engine, the Army's first version of the Navy NK9A. Yet this same engine gave constant trouble and demanded skilled maintenance.

T. Koyama designed the Ki-84 to greater strength factors than any previous Japanese warplane - yet poor heat-treatment of high-strength steel had the consequence that the landing gears often snapped. Progressive deterioration in quality control meant that pilots never knew how individual aircraft would perform, whether the brakes would work, and even whether - in attampting to intercept B-29 Superfortresses over Japan - they would be able to climb high enough.

Despite these problems the Hayate was essentially a superb fighter - a captured Ki-84-1a was to outclimb and outmanoeuvre a P-47 Thunderbolt, and a P-51.

The first batches were sent to China, where the 22nd. Sentai, when equipped with the new fighter, were able to fly rings around Chennault's 14th. Air Force.

The 22nd. Sentai was later moved to the Philippines, where problems overtook them, with many accidents and shortages and extremely poor serviceability.

Frequent bombing of the Musashi engine factory, and the desperate need to conserve raw materials (the shortages resulting primarily from the American submarine blockade) led to various projects and prototypes made of wood or steel.

Total production of the Ki-84 reached 3,514.


Data

Origin:
Nakajima Hikoki KK Also built by Mansyu Hikoki Seizo KK and (3 Ki-106) Tachikawa Hikoki KK

Type:
Single-seat interceptor and fighter-bomber

Span: 36' 11" (11.238 metres)Length: 32' 7" (9.92 metres)Height: 11' 1" (3.385 metres)

Engines:
In all production models - One 1,900 hp Nakajima Homare Ha-45 Model 11 18-cylinder two-row radial

Armament:
(Ki-84-1a)
2 x 20mm Ho-5 cannon in wings, each with 150 rounds
2 x 12.7mm Type 103 machine-guns in upper fuselage, each with 350 rounds
(Ki-84-Ib)
4 x 20mm Ho-5 cannon (2 in wings, 2 in fuselage) each with 150 rounds
(Ki-84-Ic)
2 x 30 mm Ho-105 cannon in wings, 2 x 20 mm Ho-5 cannon in fuselage
(all models)
Two racks under outer wings for bombs or fuel tanks up to 250 kg (550 lbs) each

Performance:
Maximum speed 388 mph (624 km/hour) / Initial climb (typical) 3.600 feet (1,100 metres) per minute
Service ceiling 34,450 (10,500 metres)
Range on internal fuel 1,025 miles (1,650 kilometres)
Range with 98-gallon drop tanks 1,815 miles (2,920 kilometres)

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 04:01 PM
Up to the Ki-84-Ia the Ha-40/11 was fitted that produced max. of 1800hp. Later Ki-84Ib and the planned Ic used the Ha-40/21 which produced max. 1990hp. There is a diffenrent within the Hayate line of enignes used. Also the HP varried as mentioned above.

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