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View Full Version : ***Messerschmitt BF-109 G4 PICS (THE ONLY ONE IN THE WORLD) + WW2 STUFF***



cawimmer430
12-17-2007, 05:16 AM
I was in Speyer a few weeks ago which has this awesome museum dedicated to technology. They had everything there from classic cars to airplanes, a submarine etc. I only got around to sorting out these pics however: a Messerschmitt BF-109 G4.

Here's a small history of this particular G-4. It was built in Vienna in 1942 and delivered to Jagdgeschwader 52 fighting on the Eastern Front. This G4 was flown by Lt. Wolf-Dieter von Coester who crash landed on March 20, 1943 over the Black Sea due to engine troubles.

45 years later in 1987, it was raised and restoration began in 1996 in Italy. Three years later, she was fully restored and in June of 2001, the aircraft reached Speyer: home of Jagdgeschwader 52 during World War II. This G4 is the only surviving G4 left in the world (out of a total production of 1,242) and one of two BF-109s displayed in Germany with an actual combat record.

Enjoy the pics. Sorry I couldn't take interior or more detailed shots. I need a better lens and the aircraft was "sealed off" from nosy people like me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif


Here she is...
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6291/bf109g401pe3.jpg
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8610/bf109g4011wt4.jpg
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2083/bf109g4012ub4.jpg

The Daimler-Benz DB605A engine. 35,700 cc inverted V12, 1,475-horsepower giving the G4 a top speed of 600 km/h.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7633/bf109g4013ep3.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9467/bf109g4014li4.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8934/bf109g4015al0.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4751/bf109g4016fa7.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4180/bf109g4017ov2.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/218/bf109g4018hq2.jpg

I thought this was appropriate. The Mercedes-Benz star from a 1930s Mercedes and the Daimler-Benz engine in the background.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7360/bf109g4019cd4.jpg

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2501/bf109g40111ft4.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1757/bf109g40112ki1.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2554/bf109g40113yd6.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3487/bf109g40114dp7.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8900/bf109g40115co5.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/262/bf109g40116vy2.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4563/bf109g40117qj7.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6245/bf109g40118sy7.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4386/bf109g40119ss1.jpg

View into the 20mm nose cannon complete with some serial numbers near the front engine air-intake.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4255/bf109g40120gm0.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6285/bf109g40121gc3.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8026/bf109g40122ml6.jpg

A little chit chat between the mannequins before heading up to intercept some enemy fighters...
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2030/bf109g40123sp0.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9595/bf109g40124id6.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4350/bf109g40125ty7.jpg

Some info on the DB605A
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/307/bf109g40126techhd5.jpg

The pilot of this machine: Lt. Wolf-Dieter von Coester
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8254/bf109g40129pilothu5.jpg



They also had a couple of other World War II related exhibits here. I believe this is the original rudder of Hermann Graf's BF-109 G6
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9885/hermanngraf02fd3.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2539/hermanngraf01fr5.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3782/hermanngraf04wq0.jpg

Next to the Graf exhibition was an exhibit from another Luftwaffe ace: Alfred Grislawski
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1663/zagrislawski01hl5.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/686/zagrislawski02kj1.jpg

Looks like a good book!
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/7538/hermanngraf03az2.jpg

Erich Hartmann's BF-109 G6 shooting down an IL-2
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4749/erichhartmanncx4.jpg


Luftwaffe Uniform
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1203/otherhz9.jpg

Not sure about this one. Probably a World War I flight suit.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8459/other1my4.jpg



And lastly, this was interesting. Apparently this American pilot (Joe Bennet) and his German counterpart (Hubert Heckmann) collided during a dogfight over Germany on May 25, 1944. In 1991, 47 years later, they met up again. Anyone know more about this incident? The rudder wreckage appears to be from Heckmann's BF-109 G6.
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/359/other3tg5.jpg
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2928/other4lw8.jpg
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4984/other5id1.jpg

Hope you liked the pics. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

cawimmer430
12-17-2007, 05:16 AM
I was in Speyer a few weeks ago which has this awesome museum dedicated to technology. They had everything there from classic cars to airplanes, a submarine etc. I only got around to sorting out these pics however: a Messerschmitt BF-109 G4.

Here's a small history of this particular G-4. It was built in Vienna in 1942 and delivered to Jagdgeschwader 52 fighting on the Eastern Front. This G4 was flown by Lt. Wolf-Dieter von Coester who crash landed on March 20, 1943 over the Black Sea due to engine troubles.

45 years later in 1987, it was raised and restoration began in 1996 in Italy. Three years later, she was fully restored and in June of 2001, the aircraft reached Speyer: home of Jagdgeschwader 52 during World War II. This G4 is the only surviving G4 left in the world (out of a total production of 1,242) and one of two BF-109s displayed in Germany with an actual combat record.

Enjoy the pics. Sorry I couldn't take interior or more detailed shots. I need a better lens and the aircraft was "sealed off" from nosy people like me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif


Here she is...
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6291/bf109g401pe3.jpg
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8610/bf109g4011wt4.jpg
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2083/bf109g4012ub4.jpg

The Daimler-Benz DB605A engine. 35,700 cc inverted V12, 1,475-horsepower giving the G4 a top speed of 600 km/h.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7633/bf109g4013ep3.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9467/bf109g4014li4.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8934/bf109g4015al0.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4751/bf109g4016fa7.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4180/bf109g4017ov2.jpg
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/218/bf109g4018hq2.jpg

I thought this was appropriate. The Mercedes-Benz star from a 1930s Mercedes and the Daimler-Benz engine in the background.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7360/bf109g4019cd4.jpg

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2501/bf109g40111ft4.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1757/bf109g40112ki1.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2554/bf109g40113yd6.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3487/bf109g40114dp7.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/8900/bf109g40115co5.jpg
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/262/bf109g40116vy2.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4563/bf109g40117qj7.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6245/bf109g40118sy7.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4386/bf109g40119ss1.jpg

View into the 20mm nose cannon complete with some serial numbers near the front engine air-intake.
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4255/bf109g40120gm0.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6285/bf109g40121gc3.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8026/bf109g40122ml6.jpg

A little chit chat between the mannequins before heading up to intercept some enemy fighters...
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2030/bf109g40123sp0.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9595/bf109g40124id6.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/4350/bf109g40125ty7.jpg

Some info on the DB605A
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/307/bf109g40126techhd5.jpg

The pilot of this machine: Lt. Wolf-Dieter von Coester
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8254/bf109g40129pilothu5.jpg



They also had a couple of other World War II related exhibits here. I believe this is the original rudder of Hermann Graf's BF-109 G6
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9885/hermanngraf02fd3.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2539/hermanngraf01fr5.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3782/hermanngraf04wq0.jpg

Next to the Graf exhibition was an exhibit from another Luftwaffe ace: Alfred Grislawski
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1663/zagrislawski01hl5.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/686/zagrislawski02kj1.jpg

Looks like a good book!
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/7538/hermanngraf03az2.jpg

Erich Hartmann's BF-109 G6 shooting down an IL-2
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4749/erichhartmanncx4.jpg


Luftwaffe Uniform
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1203/otherhz9.jpg

Not sure about this one. Probably a World War I flight suit.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8459/other1my4.jpg



And lastly, this was interesting. Apparently this American pilot (Joe Bennet) and his German counterpart (Hubert Heckmann) collided during a dogfight over Germany on May 25, 1944. In 1991, 47 years later, they met up again. Anyone know more about this incident? The rudder wreckage appears to be from Heckmann's BF-109 G6.
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/359/other3tg5.jpg
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2928/other4lw8.jpg
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4984/other5id1.jpg

Hope you liked the pics. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

carguy_
12-17-2007, 05:27 AM
I deeeeeeeeeed, I deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!

Genie-
12-17-2007, 05:32 AM
SO very nice pictures!!

thumbs up!

Bewolf
12-17-2007, 05:41 AM
Thumbs up there, Kamerad. Keep it coming =)

zardozid
12-17-2007, 05:42 AM
Thanks for the pictures...

one of the things I like about a decent internet community is how people contribute to the experience...
Thanks for sharing your trip with us...

p.s. really interesting...I too am a ME109 buff. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

foxyboy1964
12-17-2007, 05:47 AM
That is one very cool museum, lots of interesting stuff in the background too. I love the Fokker tri-plane hanging from the roof.

I noticed a black convertible in the first photo. That wouldn't be "the" black convertible, would it?

harryklein66
12-17-2007, 05:55 AM
Nice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I've seen it few years ago, they also have 1/3 of an A6m wreck (cockpit area ), and a BF 110 wreck.

There is also the Sinsheim Museum, not far from Speyer, with some nice aircrafts too, and a dynamic presentation of a Panther

GBrutus
12-17-2007, 06:34 AM
Superb pictures! Many thanks for posting them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

blairgowrie
12-17-2007, 06:40 AM
Always enjoy. Many thanks.

JG52Uther
12-17-2007, 06:44 AM
Speyer is a fantastic place,I visited 2 years ago.Did you take any pics of the trains?

Capt.LoneRanger
12-17-2007, 06:53 AM
Great pictures!

Yes, the picture from the collision is taken from the book "Flying Aces" from James H. Kitchens and Bernard C. Nalty, Friedman / Fairfax.

I got this book at the Mighty 8th Airforce Museum. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

The fight happened near Botenheim. Apparently Oberfähnrich Heckman managed to get on the six of Capt. Bennetts P51B-7-NA, but his guns jammed. Unwilling to let his target escape, Heckman stayed close on his six. When Bennett pulled up, Heckman pulled in the tail section of the P51 and shredded it.

The P51 tumbled down and Bennett was barely able to escape. Heckman made a successfull bellylanding.

Ratsack
12-17-2007, 07:01 AM
Excellent pics, and thank you for sharing!

I have a question for you regarding the swastika on this plane. I thought it was illegal to display the swastika in some European countries, including Germany. Yet this example is restored complete with its politically incorrect but historically accurate markings. In contrast, the planes in the Messerschmitt company's flight do not carry the swastika. These latter are either new built or conversions from Buchons.

Is there some sort of dispensation allowing the display of the swastika if it actually appeared on the item in question (like this G-4)? Or is it actually not illegal at all to display this symbol?

Just curious.

cheers,
Ratsack

RegRag1977
12-17-2007, 07:05 AM
As always, your pics rock!

Keep them coming http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Oh, i almost forgot to say thank you! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Outlaw---
12-17-2007, 08:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
Is there some sort of dispensation allowing the display of the swastika if it actually appeared on the item in question (like this G-4)? Or is it actually not illegal at all to display this symbol? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe I read something somewhere along the lines of historical displays IF, like you suggest, the swastika appeared on the original. Not totally sure though.

--Outlaw.

Kurfurst__
12-17-2007, 11:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
Excellent pics, and thank you for sharing!

I have a question for you regarding the swastika on this plane. I thought it was illegal to display the swastika in some European countries, including Germany. Yet this example is restored complete with its politically incorrect but historically accurate markings. In contrast, the planes in the Messerschmitt company's flight do not carry the swastika. These latter are either new built or conversions from Buchons.

Is there some sort of dispensation allowing the display of the swastika if it actually appeared on the item in question (like this G-4)? Or is it actually not illegal at all to display this symbol?

Just curious.

cheers,
Ratsack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

StGB § 86a Verwenden von Kennzeichen verfassungswidriger Organisationen

(1) Mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe wird bestraft, wer

1. im Inland Kennzeichen einer der in § 86 Abs. 1 Nr. 1, 2 und 4 bezeichneten Parteien oder Vereinigungen verbreitet oder öffentlich, in einer Versammlung oder in von ihm verbreiteten Schriften (§ 11 Abs. 3) verwendet oder

2. Gegenstände, die derartige Kennzeichen darstellen oder enthalten, zur Verbreitung oder Verwendung im Inland oder Ausland in der in Nummer 1 bezeichneten Art und Weise herstellt, vorrätig hält, einführt oder ausführt.

(2) Kennzeichen im Sinne des Absatzes 1 sind namentlich Fahnen, Abzeichen, Uniformstücke, Parolen und Grußformen. Den in Satz 1 genannten Kennzeichen stehen solche gleich, die ihnen zum Verwechseln ähnlich sind.

(3) § 86 Abs. 3 und 4 gilt entsprechend.


§ 86 Verbreiten von Propagandamitteln verfassungswidriger Organisationen

...

(3) Absatz 1 gilt nicht, wenn das Propagandamittel oder die Handlung der staatsbürgerlichen Aufklärung, der Abwehr verfassungswidriger Bestrebungen, der Kunst oder der Wissenschaft, der Forschung oder der Lehre, der Berichterstattung über Vorgänge des Zeitgeschehens oder der Geschichte oder ähnlichen Zwecken dient.

Hungarian laws repeat almost the same words in out 269/B. § of the Btk (ie. StGB); use of these symbols is allowed for educational, scientific, art or historic purposes etc., but it also bans (and rightly so) the Red Star, the Arrowcross, the Hammer&Sickle, SS runes and of course, the Swastika; punishment is however limited to fines.

F0_Dark_P
12-17-2007, 11:27 AM
Beutiful! but now comes my question , can she still fly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Klemm.co
12-17-2007, 11:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F0_Dark_P:
Beutiful! but now comes my question , can she still fly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If tossed from high enough an altitude and with sufficient airspeed i guess...
But seriously. Planes that are on display are rarely flyable. And it costs much more to make them so.

R_Target
12-17-2007, 12:05 PM
The close-ups of the DB engine are excellent. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Heliopause
12-17-2007, 12:29 PM
Very nice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

What's "Nesthänchen"? hänchen = chicken?...sorry my german is not that good.

Waldo.Pepper
12-17-2007, 12:29 PM
Excellent post and of course as always excellent pictures, that are much appreciated.

Excellent restoration as well! Extremely impressive, and I marvel at the amount of work that no doubt went into the plane and the entire exhibit.

Sometimes I think it sad though that such restorations are as excellent as this one is.

That plane is factory fresh, and has not looked like that since it left the factory. Since it has unit marking and other personal emblems and such on it - there is no way that it ever looked like this.

I am aware of the Corsair in England that was restored to look like it did during the war. Which was kind of clever.

It might be nice to see a plane restored to 'carshow' excellence on one side, say the starboard side, and wartime appearance on the port side, for example.

Still this G4 is a beauty.

waffen-79
12-17-2007, 12:41 PM
thank you mate! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

StG2_Schlachter
12-17-2007, 12:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Heliopause:
Very nice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

What's "Nesthänchen"? hänchen = chicken?...sorry my german is not that good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nesthäkchen, when literally translated means nestling.

Excellent pics Christian! Thank you very much. Very tidy and modern exhibition it seems.

JZG_Thiem
12-17-2007, 01:08 PM
closer look at the cockpit of the same 109G4 in Speyer. Notice the thikness of the armored glass.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6941/img0070nu0.jpg

Insuber
12-17-2007, 02:11 PM
The restoration work looks really excellent, I like the "brand new" ex-works look. Kudos to the Italian restorers!

Regards,
Insuber

KG66_Gog
12-17-2007, 02:17 PM
The white rudder belongs to Alfred Grislawski's 109G. The letters are AG. Graf's letters, though similar looking from a distance are clearly HG when looked at closely.

There is a picture of it in 'Luftwaffe rudder markings', captioned

J/Gr.50
Bf109G
Wiesb.-Erbenheim
6.Sept.1943
112.L.S (133)

I think it safe to assume that the other rudder is from one of Graf's aircraft.

Lovely pictures!!!!

Kurfurst__
12-17-2007, 03:07 PM
Indeed - gee, what are the chances ? I`d have never knew they still have that piece of rudder (esp. considering it`s material)...

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9885/hermanngraf02fd3.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e133/Kurfurst/109G-6_Grislawski_whiterudder_flett.jpg

That`s quite a unique piece of history - and if you carefully look at Griflawski`s G-6, that`s no ordinary piece either... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Matz0r
12-17-2007, 03:20 PM
I have that book; A pair of aces, an excellent read with a in depth detail into the life in the field for Graaf & Grislawski.

Billy_BigBoy
12-17-2007, 03:23 PM
Very nice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Thanks!

Schwarz.13
12-17-2007, 04:06 PM
Beautiful pictures of a beautifully-restored beauty, thanks.

Great close-ups of the DB605 - looks almost like it was restored by a PC modder, so neat and tidy with it's coloured cable-ties...

KG66_Gog
12-17-2007, 06:09 PM
Here's a test for you,

whose was this rudder?

http://users.tpg.com.au/narsil//rudder1.jpg

No, its not real, I made this a while ago to decorate my games room/bar. It is full size.

TX-Gunslinger
12-17-2007, 06:11 PM
Incredible pictures! Thanks so much for taking the time to put them up.

One note, last image contains a picture of one of the more skilled and not as well know experten, Friedrich-Karl "Nasen" Muller - the most successful Wild-Sau pilot. 30 kills in 52 missions - all at night with no radar.

S~

Gunny

Haigotron
12-17-2007, 10:52 PM
Awesome pics, as always!

I find it touching when old foes reunite years later and become friends, so many other cases too. Still some good in humanity http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Vike
12-18-2007, 02:35 AM
Many many many thanks Cawimmer,these pics are great and your comments very instructive! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Again,thanks!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

@+

JG4_Helofly
12-18-2007, 03:06 AM
+1 vote for "member of the year" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

bhunter2112
12-18-2007, 11:22 AM
Very nice thank you.

I_KG100_Prien
12-18-2007, 11:29 AM
I've always been disappointed with these picture threads that you've posed.

When they are over and no more great photos to look at-that is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG52Uther
12-18-2007, 11:31 AM
A squadmate at Speyer.I took this one.If you ever get the chance,it is a must see place.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/JG52Uther/P5150032.jpg

TgD Thunderbolt56
12-18-2007, 12:02 PM
Yet another great post by cawimmer!

S! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

cawimmer430
12-18-2007, 12:16 PM
Hi guys,

Glad you all like the shots! I got some more aircraft pictures coming up. I'm a little overworked these days so I won't be able to post them all at once so give me some time and be patient!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

I also wanted to reply to everyone but I got so much stuff to finish up here so I had to make this general post. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I seriously doubt if this G4 will be able to fly. I think it was restored for museum condition, not flyable condition. Also, the Swastika can be displayed on historical aircraft if they're part of a museum for educational purposes. I wonder why the German WW2 aircraft I photographed in the Deutsches Museum didn't have them though. Oh well...

Thanks also to those who provided some info in this thread. Love to stay, but I got to go. Perhaps Thursday I got a little treat coming up! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Xiolablu3
12-18-2007, 05:05 PM
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8459/other1my4.jpg

Fantastic pics Chris, thanks!!



I think the pic above is a British Bomber Crew Clothing. See the Lancaster below.

Possibly to show what the people were wearing in the planes they attacked. (The Lancaster/Bomber Command did a lot of daytime stuff as well as the 'main' nighttime campaign - Particularly around D-Day)

That certainly looks like a RAF Bomber Crew Jacket, although I am no expert. Thats the clothing they wore even in those freezing rear turrets on cold winter nights. Nasty job at that time opf the year. (all the time?)

Xiolablu3
12-18-2007, 05:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:


That`s quite a unique piece of history - and if you carefully look at Griflawski`s G-6, that`s no ordinary piece either... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi mate, could you explain your comment for me pls?

MB_Avro_UK
12-18-2007, 05:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8459/other1my4.jpg

Fantastic pics Chris, thanks!!



I think the pic above is a British Bomber Crew Clothing. See the Lancaster below.

Possibly to show what the people were wearing in the planes they attacked. (The Lancaster/Bomber Command did a lot of daytime stuff as well as the 'main' nighttime campaign - Particularly around D-Day)

That certainly looks like a RAF Bomber Crew Jacket, although I am no expert. Thats the clothing they wore even in those freezing rear turrets on cold winter nights. Nasty job at that time opf the year. (all the time?) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMO its US flight gear. The flight helmet is US. The flight jacket is also US but the boots maybe RAF escape issue.

Certainly not RAF.

Super thread!

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

MB_Avro_UK
12-18-2007, 05:32 PM
Hi all,

Superb pics of LW aircrew equipment!

N & G goggles are very rare. Good pic of the 'NetHaube'. That's a typical helmet worn by fighter pilots.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Kurfurst__
12-19-2007, 04:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:


That`s quite a unique piece of history - and if you carefully look at Griflawski`s G-6, that`s no ordinary piece either... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi mate, could you explain your comment for me pls? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Griflawski`s G-6 also has aileron Flettner tabs.

Xiolablu3
12-19-2007, 05:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:


That`s quite a unique piece of history - and if you carefully look at Griflawski`s G-6, that`s no ordinary piece either... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi mate, could you explain your comment for me pls? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Griflawski`s G-6 also has aileron Flettner tabs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Xiolablu3
12-19-2007, 06:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8459/other1my4.jpg

Fantastic pics Chris, thanks!!



I think the pic above is a British Bomber Crew Clothing. See the Lancaster below.

Possibly to show what the people were wearing in the planes they attacked. (The Lancaster/Bomber Command did a lot of daytime stuff as well as the 'main' nighttime campaign - Particularly around D-Day)

That certainly looks like a RAF Bomber Crew Jacket, although I am no expert. Thats the clothing they wore even in those freezing rear turrets on cold winter nights. Nasty job at that time opf the year. (all the time?) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMO its US flight gear. The flight helmet is US. The flight jacket is also US but the boots maybe RAF escape issue.

Certainly not RAF.

Super thread!

Best Regards,
MB_Avro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the correction

Kurfurst__
12-19-2007, 07:44 AM
Speaking of boots and leather jackets, one of the neat feature of LW boots and jackets was that they had electric wiring inside them. You plugged the thing in to some socket in the cocpit, and it heated your torso and legs.

It`s somewhat controversial though, Hungarian pilots referred to these boots as 'Messer-boots', so could be a Messerschmitt/109 thing only..

RegRag1977
12-19-2007, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG4_Helofly:
+1 vote for "member of the year" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

+1

Rickustyit
12-20-2007, 12:26 AM
What a nice piece of engineering !

Excellent pictures Christian, as usual.

Keep 'em coming!

Ciao
Riccardo

http://jshobbies.net/catalog/images/HA09444.jpg

cawimmer430
12-20-2007, 05:05 AM
Once again, anytime guys! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I got another treat coming up tonight. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Awwww, I don't deserve member of the year award. I hardly post here. Give it to someone who contributes a lot of knowledge through great posts! Horseback, Ice-Fire and such come to mind. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Odirroh
02-09-2008, 03:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Heliopause:
Very nice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

What's "Nesthänchen"? hänchen = chicken?...sorry my german is not that good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually it´s "Nesthäkchen", a term of endearment. Best translation I found is "pet of the family".

Odirroh

BaronUnderpants
02-09-2008, 05:07 PM
Very nice pics.

Thank u. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


And thx for the backgroundstorys u all.

Allways more intresting looking at things when u know the story behind it.

Metatron_123
02-09-2008, 08:31 PM
I was surprised to see the hakenkreuz on the rudders. Isn't it completely banned over there?

Other aircraft in German museums don't seem to have them.

csThor
02-10-2008, 12:20 AM
Museums are granted an exception of §86a as they're documenting history. Basically it is at the museum's discretion whether they display the swastika or not. It probably depends on the curator if the "mitten crab" is on the tail or not.

cawimmer430
02-10-2008, 02:06 AM
Ah, an old thread. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Once again anytime! I got more pictures coming up, but not enough time... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif