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View Full Version : Please give us more maps in Quick Mission Builder.



BlitzKrieg101
03-30-2004, 04:33 AM
Why is there such a limited amount of maps for this mode.

Please can we get more, oh please. I know about the other third party utilities but I feel that the stock one should give us a bigger variety.

Thanks for listening Oleg.

Regards
Gian

BlitzKrieg101
03-30-2004, 04:33 AM
Why is there such a limited amount of maps for this mode.

Please can we get more, oh please. I know about the other third party utilities but I feel that the stock one should give us a bigger variety.

Thanks for listening Oleg.

Regards
Gian

blabla0001
03-30-2004, 04:36 AM
Or learn how to use the stock mission builder tools instead.

LEXX_Luthor
03-30-2004, 04:56 AM
I am happy with 3rd Party.

All Oleg should do is make maps, Maps, and more MAPS http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif DUH!!!

And sell the maps for huge Profit DUH!!!

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Longjocks
03-30-2004, 05:05 AM
I can understand the want for more maps in this mode as I use it a lot and the variation would be nice. However, this mode is really for nothing but simple face-offs and practice for the rest of the game. New maps would just bring eye candy and would not add immersion to the scenario, especially as you do not travel far enough to take in the scenery.

pacettid
03-30-2004, 05:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Longjocks:
I can understand the want for more maps in this mode as I use it a lot and the variation would be nice. However, this mode is really for nothing but simple face-offs and practice for the rest of the game. New maps would just bring eye candy and would not add immersion to the scenario, especially as you do not travel far enough to take in the scenery.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IMHO we could really use North Africa, Malta, Sicily, and Italy maps.

All the best, Don

BerkshireHunt
03-30-2004, 06:37 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Longjocks:
I can understand the want for more maps in this mode as I use it a lot and the variation would be nice. However, this mode is really for nothing but simple face-offs and practice for the rest of the game.

I have to disagree. If you are an online player then perhaps QMB is only for practice. But that is not its purpose: it is not called 'Practice Arena' is it? It is primarily for constructing quick offline dogfights.
If you play only offline then the game consists of nothing but QMB and Campaign.

For Multiplayer FB now has: Dynamic campaign/
Dogfight servers
For Offline play it now has: Dynamic campaign/
QMB(for dogfights)

(forget Co-operative for now- that really is a minority sport)

However, QMB is woefully underdeveloped and badly supported by Maddox.
Although Oleg has stated in the past that 95% of buyers fly almost exclusively offline it is my opinion that he personally is not very interested in offline play. He is known to play online occasionally and often discusses online cheating and netcode issues- but I don't recall him ever commenting on the merits of this campaign over that or how much he enjoyed, for instance, the 'Experten' campaign. The overall direction of the game's development is decided by one person, Oleg- and the thousands of programming hours devoted to improving online play for the minority set against the paucity of effort devoted to QMB tells you everything you need to know.
There is no reason why 1CMaddox could not have produced something like UQMG- but it was not considered a priority (by Oleg). Note also that all campaign development is farmed out to a hired hand ie Starshoy (who I believe lives in Canada). Starshoy often gets flamed for weaknesses in offline campaigns but he is one step removed from the Moscow crucible and is totally reliant on Oleg enabling features through code additions. If Oleg were personally more interested in offline play I reckon we would have seen all those things that the fans clamoured for much earlier: dynamic campaign (still has room for improvement); more game narrative, better briefings; user interfaces with more sparkle (now addressed by a third party) and oh yes, in-flight ambient radio chatter (not needed if you fly online with Roger Wilco).
Offliners should not have to engage in the arcane discipline of mission building just to enjoy a certain map. At the moment their dogfight arena (QMB) contains just 25% of the maps coded on their CDs.
If the same pattern repeats itself with the Battle of Britain game then offliners should brace themselves for:
1)A relatively poor campaign which does little to engage the emotions.
2)Only a few maps available for quick offline dogfights.
3)Tens of thousands of programming hours devoted to online play which the majority of buyers will never use- ie redundant code sitting on your hard drive.
4)Painfully slow improvement in the offline game aided and abetted by third parties.

Hopefully, none of the above will turn out to be true but it would need the man in charge to direct the energies of his staff accordingly.
There is a case to be made for separate development; game apartheid. Offliners and onliners will never see eye to eye and I don't think there is much evidence of cross- over between the two. Many onliners are scathing about how 'boring' campaigns are and how unchallenging the AI is. Offliners complain that the online game lacks historical perspective and is ridden with egos. In my view the game wouldn't do itself any harm by being focused as a package on offline play with a download available to enable online play if that is your wish. Or maybe a separate CD 'The Online Expansion' could be marketed for those who really want and need online. This would at least reflect the importance of the market share of those groups and would mean that effort would be directed accordingly- but I know it isn't going to happen. Nothing against people who prefer online; I've tried it myself but I don't have the time or the connection to really enjoy it- and frankly, it's a youth culture to which I can't subscribe.

[This message was edited by BerkshireHunt on Tue March 30 2004 at 06:31 AM.]

[This message was edited by BerkshireHunt on Tue March 30 2004 at 06:36 AM.]

[This message was edited by BerkshireHunt on Tue March 30 2004 at 06:42 AM.]

Longjocks
03-30-2004, 06:49 AM
Sorry, I look at it differently. I play single player only and yet I see the QMB as nothing but a practice arena for quickly and easily setting up simple missions to fly (we seem to agree on that). If I want something more complex I'll try my hand at the FMB. QMB can benefit from slightly greater customisation but more maps is not high on my list.

"Thanks for the inspiration to rise above you all."

BlitzKrieg101
03-30-2004, 08:42 AM
Hi

But I think there are allot of us who don't have the time to come home from work and create a full mission in the full mission builder, we just want to choose where you fly, what you fly at the click of a few buttons and be done with it.

AS stated there are so many other maps. Some people view it as a traing arena and for some of us it is actually the main place where we fly.

WE offliners deserve a bit more variety in the QMB, we paid for it after all.

I am not whining, but merely making a point and hoping that this mught be addressed in a upcoming patch at some stage. All I am asking for is to add more maps. The maps are already there, isn't it just a question of linking it to QMB?

Thanks
Gian

Bearcat99
03-30-2004, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzKrieg101:
Hi
But I think there are allot of us who don't have the time to come home from work and create a full mission in the full mission builder, we just want to choose where you fly, what you fly at the click of a few buttons and be done with it.
AS stated there are so many other maps. Some people view it as a traing arena and for some of us it is actually the main place where we fly.
WE offliners deserve a bit more variety in the QMB, we paid for it after all.
I am not whining, but merely making a point and hoping that this mught be addressed in a upcoming patch at some stage. All I am asking for is to add more maps. The maps are already there, isn't it just a question of linking it to QMB?
Thanks
Gian<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First off... you got what you paid for and then some so dont go there. Secondly and most importantly.... It isnt as simple as adding more maps to the QMB. It is a much more complex thing that you ask. Think about it....... when you select armour... who places the armour in there? Who sets the waypoints for the planes friendly and enemy? When you select attack a bridge or an airbase....how did the flak batteries get there? You have to undertand that that stuff was put there....... If you multiply the number of scenarios (number of planes in flight from 1-32,plane type -over 125,AI,flyable,pilot skill,weather,starting altitude,waypoints etc.)by the 4 maps that are available now it becomes mind boggling. Add that to every map in the sim or even just 4 more and you get a glimpse of the complexity. Every possible scenario has to be programmed in so that when you hit that button in the QM set up you get the appropriate response. This is why the UQMG by Uber D is such a mindblowing piece of software. The link to it is in my sig below ubder UQMG. I HIGHLY recommend it. It is basically a FMB power tool with QMB ease. It makes programming missions closer to CFS style but with much more complex scenarios. The FMB is not as hard as it seems either. You can set up a QM style mission in the FMB in 10 minutes on the map of your choice. Now of course more complicated scenarios will take more time but a quick QM style run can be done in short order. I fly offline all the time and IMO there is no comparison to the offline experience in FB when you combine all its goodies...graphics, sound,scalability etc. Ofline players are not being shortchanged at all.. in fact they are being challenged to stretch thier comfort zone a bit and do some work that will pay off in hours and hours of fun. The thing I like about the UQMG is that... when you program a FM you kind of know where to expect what... with the UQMG it isnt quite like that.. you cqn be surprised. Couple that with the DCG and you have a sure fire winner on your hands. I suggest you go to the Sturmovik Essentials thread at the top of the page and hit the Eastern Skies link. There is an excellent FMB tutorial there. I also suggest you find someone online who knows how to use the FMB... get them on comms and have them walk tou through the basics. It isnt that hard. It only looks that way. What could be better in this sim is the docuumentation.... but with the level of committment to the product of its developer and the level of dedication to the sim from its users there is a smorgasbord of help available to teach you how to get much more out of the sim than you ever dreamed possible. You have to use the resouces available though. Dont be intimidated by the apparent complexity of the FMB. The difference between the two (FMB and UQMG) is that the FMB still will give you more fine tuned programmability... down to the minutest detail... but the UQMG is a great tool if you just dont wnat to think about all that. Tryu it and tell us what you think.

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Chuck_Older
03-30-2004, 10:25 AM
Learning to use the FMB took me about an hour to get the basics. Making a mission can take some time, but it depends on what you want to do.

If all you want is the dogfight capability of QMB, open up FMB, pick a map, put down some aircraft, set converging waypoints, and fight your QMB type fight. That will take all of five minutes.

Learning to fly a P-47 effectively has taken me many times the hours I have spent using the FMB. MAny many times, and I still am not good.

But I don't accept the "FMB takes too much time" argument. FMB looks daunting and complex. It really isn't and more players should become familiar with it

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

Capt._Tenneal
03-30-2004, 10:51 AM
It would also be nice to have more options in the QMB for engagements other than head-on merges.

DCG and UQMG are fine programs, I guess, from hearing their enthusiastic reviews by their users, but I tend to use the official versions (DGEN and QMB) because they are integrated with the game and lead to less "fuss" with installation and tweaking to get it working right. FB/AEP is a game for all of it's fans, those that want to work with the FMB and use 3rd party programs, and those that don't. For the latter, they can always hope and request (not demand) that DGEN and the QMB imrove as the rest of the game improves. Which was the point of the topic author to begin with, politely I might add. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-30-2004, 11:39 AM
We can just make a "boilerplate" FMB mission and any changes we make are quick and we can save that to a new mission file leaving the boilerplate mission for other mods we make to it. Anyway, FMB gives you infinite Power for making your own stuff and again, once we have a standard mission--admittedly an exhausting endeavor--its short order cookery to make changes to it.

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

JorBR
03-30-2004, 01:45 PM
Go here http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/fmbguide/fmb_as_qmb.htm

After reading it it has been ease to use FMB as QMB, even for my monkey-see-monkey-do computer skills.

Last night my flight sunk the ´Marat´! Which is unthinkable in QMB.

"Never wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

Longjocks
03-30-2004, 02:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlitzKrieg101:
But I think there are allot of us who don't have the time to come home from work and create a full mission in the full mission builder, we just want to choose where you fly, what you fly at the click of a few buttons and be done with it.

AS stated there are so many other maps. Some people view it as a traing arena and for some of us it is actually the main place where we fly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I totally agree. I too have little time to learn new things thanks to work and social commitments. I spend most of my time in single missions and the QMB. I would love for it to be more dynamic while staying fairly simple. I was only recently discussing it with a mate. But I believe maps are the least important features I'd like to see added. I say add them after other, more important features like group and waypoint support.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>WE offliners deserve a bit more variety in the QMB, we paid for it after all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As I said, I too am an "offliner" and I don't necessarily want all the same things. One thing I certainly don't agree with is that we, as gamers, "deserve" anything but patch support for bugs. We pay for a game as is. Once we hand over our cash it means we have accepted the product we buy. If the product doesn't have what we want then we keep our cash in our pockets. Any thing the devs do on top of that is a bonus for us... a freebie in a commercial world. How cool is that?!

If we want more than we pay for then it's up to us or a friendly third party to possibly alter the product. Much like adding say... mag wheels to a car after you've bought it. You surely can't expect to go back to the car dealer a month after your purchase and say, "Hey, I want you to put mag wheels on my car and I want it for free."

"Thanks for the inspiration to rise above you all."

LEXX_Luthor
03-30-2004, 03:03 PM
We hear you dude/dudette. You can download missions made by fellas/fellattes that make missions. Hunt around for the map you want. South~East Kuban is my fave.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I too have little time to learn new things thanks to work and social commitments.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>social commitments http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Can somebody give this simmer/simmerette a link to downloadable missions?

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Longjocks
03-30-2004, 05:56 PM
If you mean me, I appreciate the guesture, but don't let a single digit post count fool you into the mislead belief that I'm green.

"Thanks for the inspiration to rise above you all."

artjunky
03-31-2004, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Uber D is such a mindblowing piece of software. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I agree with the original post. If Uber D can do it why can't Oleg inside the game. I understand the problem of creating all the scenarios and thats why it seams that Oleg has programmed QMB into a corner... That's what we're talking about. Why can't QMB be reprogrammed to operate more like Uber D? I like the simplicity of QMB over Uber D but from a progamming point of view, Uber D's does the trick.

Some of you mentioned the Full Mission Builder. For me, the problem with FMB is that it is just too clunky and even though the flight aspect of this sim is fantastic, I'm sorry to say the backend (FMB) is fairly unprofessional. Forgotten Battles is an AWESOME simulation but these mission programs need reprogramming. Perhaps this is being dealt with under BOB. If not, it should be.

Think of all the missions that have been created. Now think what you have to do to get the exact mission that you want. What a waste and what a waste of my time!

The obvious failure in FMB is the ability to know what, exactly, is inside the mission before you load it. One of the reason this person posted and why I am joining the chorus is because FMB is a roulette wheel and takes way too long to load the missions.

After selecting a mission, it too often turns out not being the mission that I want. Basically, there should be a way to view the mission descriptions before you load the mission. In addition, there should be a way to categorize these FMB missions so that when I go to select a mission, dogfight mission are in one place, bombing in another, cap in a third...and all of them should be selectable from a pull-down menu. Granted, whoever is building these missions would have to put them into selectable categories to begin with.

Basically, there should be a way to search the mission for the right type. By "search" I don't exactly mean a text box where you type in a keyword but a "pulldown" menu system that allows you to select the type of pre-built mission that you want. The way it is now, however, you pretty much have to randomly select the mission, load it (not a quick thing) and then look at its description(if there is one).

It's a shame that there are so many great missions but in my opinion, FMB stands for Forgotten Mission Builder.

I say, reprogram both QMB and FMB.

&lt;p align="center"&gt;img src="http://www.artjunky.com/phantomfighters/images/419x100phantomfighters01.gif" alt="Phantom Fighters" width="419" height="100" border="0"&gt;&lt;/***

blabla0001
03-31-2004, 07:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by artjunky:
If Uber D can do it why can't Oleg inside the game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If Uber D already did it why should Oleg do it again?

Philipscdrw
03-31-2004, 08:51 AM
I had an idea a while back to replace the QMB with a 'virtual battlefield' similar to what UQMG does already. If you want to intercept bombers, then it should plan a mission for the bombers to go and attack a valid target, like an airfield or town. Then it creates a patrol flight plan for your squadron, and starts you on the runway or in the air just before the merge. Depending on your preferences it would also plan scenic features and targets of opportunity like supply columns, trains and recon flights. Essentially UQMG seems to do all this but it is awkward to use, as the interface is cluttered and task-switching from FB is a pain. I would really like to see a UQMG-style program replace the QMB as the integrated FB/BOB quick combat generator.

Another thing about the inflexibility of QMB: After using it for months on end it is possible to fly the missions with the eyes shut. There is no element of searching for the target, as I know from long experience exactly where the enemy is and where he's going. I can fly an Il-2 down Chepelynka High Street and strafe that motorbike column in my sleep now.

PhilipsCDRW

"England, on effect is insular. She is maritime. She is linked through her trade, her markets, her supply lines to the most distant countries ... She has, in all her doings, very marked and very original habits and traditions. In short England's nature, England's structure, England's very situation differs profoundly from those of the Continentals."
President de Gaulle, vetoing against British entry to the EEC in 1963.

julien673
03-31-2004, 08:55 AM
Maybe we will have a dessert map http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif....