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Bearcat99
09-22-2008, 10:38 PM
An interesting read

Only @ Sim HQ (http://www.simhq.com/_air11/air_361a.html)

16 people... Good stuff though.. after reading this and knowing what i already know about BoB and about Oleg & 1C from this sim, I don't think that even with mods this sim will be able to touch BoB. It will be good and it is greatly improved by the mods IMO... but BoB is going to be an entirely different animal..

Bearcat99
09-22-2008, 10:38 PM
An interesting read

Only @ Sim HQ (http://www.simhq.com/_air11/air_361a.html)

16 people... Good stuff though.. after reading this and knowing what i already know about BoB and about Oleg & 1C from this sim, I don't think that even with mods this sim will be able to touch BoB. It will be good and it is greatly improved by the mods IMO... but BoB is going to be an entirely different animal..

WTE_Galway
09-22-2008, 10:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
An interesting read

Only @ Sim HQ (http://www.simhq.com/_air11/air_361a.html)

16 people... Good stuff though.. after reading this and knowing what i already know about BoB and about Oleg & 1C from this sim, I don't think that even with mods this sim will be able to touch BoB. It will be good and it is greatly improved by the mods IMO... but BoB is going to be an entirely different animal.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


For the online crowd definitely. The terrain is just a pretty landscape somewhere below you occasionally do screenshots of so a big range of maps is unnecessary and you never seem to get more than half a dozen aircraft flown online anyway.

However I think the sheer depth of content of IL2 in terms of planes and maps will take a long while for SOW to match if ever.

M_Gunz
09-22-2008, 11:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Map: Not fully bitmap-based any more, but vector-based. That means, altitude lines, roads and rivers can be defined precisely with x-y-resolution of 1cm and altitude accuracy of 10cm. For rivers, additionally at each point the broadness can be defined. This is a huge leap for a natural representation! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Ground Textures: A new (NVIDIA) format with several information layers. No tga's any more. So, the textures now include information for the AI like local maximum speeds. The textures also contain smaller roads. There is space for much more texture than in the IL-2 engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And wondering if the map and ground textures can be used to show ground troops, little green
men even. And then "animated" at a reduced FPS to the game. Could even have troops in states
or postures, need at least one for "pinned by air attack". It'd be a neat trick and resource
hog, for sure. What are the little green men worth anyway? Lots of them?

Big question, can the map show undercuts? Can a cliff jut?

WTE_Galway
09-22-2008, 11:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:

Big question, can the map show undercuts? Can a cliff jut? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you thinking of lurking beneath overhanging clifftops ?

M_Gunz
09-23-2008, 12:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
An interesting read

Only @ Sim HQ (http://www.simhq.com/_air11/air_361a.html)

16 people... Good stuff though.. after reading this and knowing what i already know about BoB and about Oleg & 1C from this sim, I don't think that even with mods this sim will be able to touch BoB. It will be good and it is greatly improved by the mods IMO... but BoB is going to be an entirely different animal.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


For the online crowd definitely. The terrain is just a pretty landscape somewhere below you occasionally do screenshots of so a big range of maps is unnecessary and you never seem to get more than half a dozen aircraft flown online anyway.

However I think the sheer depth of content of IL2 in terms of planes and maps will take a long while for SOW to match if ever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that you fly coops then you can have many more than 6 planes involved.
Just that some might be a little AI-ish.

M_Gunz
09-23-2008, 12:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:

Big question, can the map show undercuts? Can a cliff jut? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you thinking of lurking beneath overhanging clifftops ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, massed troops as ground features being possible, rendered through the video chip.
Could even do houses that way, the chip renders the map so some ground objects become ground
features. It could be possible to "animate" troops by changing map & texture.

BUT if the map is only extruded up to point height from ground then the troops would look weird.

So I wonder. Map and texture may be user editable.

Xiolablu3
09-23-2008, 03:40 AM
Waaaa?!?!

But I was assured by all the kids on the forum that this SOW:BOB was cancelled!?!?



Try UKded servers for online variety, they use the whole planeset and have created some classic maps/plaensets which have even been 'stolen' by other servers. (Stuka vs P11 for example)

Boosher
09-23-2008, 08:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
On Damage modeling:
here will be two different damage optics..."MG-hits" and "canon-hits". "MG" will lead to a hole exactly where the bullet hits. "Canon" will lead to predefined damage look in the hit area similar to "IL-2". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really cool!

HayateAce
09-23-2008, 08:12 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

This is a big deal:

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Map: Not fully bitmap-based any more, but vector-based.</span>

HayateAce
09-23-2008, 08:18 AM
And this is why we won't have the game in hand for quite awhile:

Vehicles: These will have a "FM", i.e. their suspension is modeled. A German Panzer III was shown to us with all the places where unit emblems, national markings, etc. could be placed. There was definitely more than a dozen locations such as 4x Balkenkreuze, 2x Divisions sign, 2x licence plate , 2x company/regiment/...

I could care less about this, since I am a single-cell furballing psycho, but I'd bet this makes our shut-in, hermit mission builder types drool into their keyboards.

M_Gunz
09-23-2008, 08:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

This is a big deal:

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Map: Not fully bitmap-based any more, but vector-based.</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Resolution is 1cm horizontal (X-Y) and 10 cm vertical. Things won't all be sized by much
larger blocks, streams won't all be wide like now. Ground will get far more detailed and
these new NVidia chips will do more of the work on the card.

Vector is like truetype fonts while bitmap is like the bitmap fonts which don't scale well.
Which one will have ground appear less homogenous, more detailed and unique.

Now will grass airstrips maybe stand out a little more?

stalkervision
09-23-2008, 09:52 AM
I just want the enemy ai to act a lot more realistically and not know where you are all the time. Also for the friendly ai to do a whole lot more for the player then it does now.

better fm's would be awfully nice to.

Bearcat99
09-23-2008, 11:15 AM
I have no doubt that BoB will be an entirely different animal, and a real beast.

IL2 came out in 2001, which means that they were probably working on it in what .. 98, 97 maybe? FB is just an unleashed IL2 but the basic engine is the same right? Yet there are features in this sim that are just now beginning to be fully utilized by some of the more powerful rigs we have out here... all of what... 7 years later, which is a lifetime in PC age.. Billfish made a comment in another post about how some of the mods were taking a hit on some of the lesser PCs out there... well the potential for that has always been around, which is probably why a lot of what we wanted from 1C over the years was not delivered (along with them having other priorities than continually adding to an aging sim..) but the point of that is if this 10 year old product can still make a top of the line system buckle 10 years later... I have no worries about BoB.

Uufflakke
09-23-2008, 11:22 AM
Thanx for sharing an old thread with us from a month ago http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/5091075286/p/1

(and the link to the English translation is mentioned at page 3)

jarink
09-23-2008, 02:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Underwater Graphics: Work is going on for a kind of underwater landscape that the camera can move into. We saw a much nicer surf than in "IL-2". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whaaahuuh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

What the *&$#@&$ does a flight sim need "underwater graphics" for?? Geez, I get more worried each time I see some new news about SoW. Worried that it will take forever to be released. Worried that it will not run on any mainstream hardware currently available (let alone my 3-year old rig). Worried that all this extra <STRIKE>stuff</STRIKE> fluff is taking up too much of the dev team's time to the detriment of the game's core: aerial combat.

stalkervision
09-23-2008, 02:43 PM
and what about animating all the fishes in the deep blue ocean and realistic oyster and clam beds? I really want them too! Oleg are you listening? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Bearcat99
09-23-2008, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Uufflakke:
Thanx for sharing an old thread with us from a month ago http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/5091075286/p/1

(and the link to the English translation is mentioned at page 3) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I just have this thing of looking at dates on articles @ SHQ.. so when an article is dated 9/23/08 I cant help but think iot might be new if the current date is 9/23/08.

ElAurens
09-23-2008, 04:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jarink:

Whaaahuuh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

What the *&$#@&$ does a flight sim need "underwater graphics" for?? Geez, I get more worried each time I see some new news about SoW. Worried that it will take forever to be released. Worried that it will not run on any mainstream hardware currently available (let alone my 3-year old rig). Worried that all this extra <STRIKE>stuff</STRIKE> fluff is taking up too much of the dev team's time to the detriment of the game's core: aerial combat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I keep telling you guys that your are thinking small.

SOW is going to be bigger than any of us can possibly imagine.

Trust me.

I_KG100_Prien
09-23-2008, 05:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I keep telling you guys that your are thinking small.

SOW is going to be bigger than any of us can possibly imagine.

Trust me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can see it now.. BoB:SOW renamed to Battlefield Europe 2 (WW2OL2).

This of course is in jest- Though a game like that would require me to get two things..

1) Divorce papers
2) Catheter.

Jesting aside I'm really looking forward to seeing the big picture in regards to what SOW is really going to offer. It seems they wouldn't be getting so detailed with ground objects and map textures if they didn't have something up the old sleeve.

The dark side to this moon however is that if it turns out to be purely flight sim oriented like IL2- Then I'm with Jarink on some of this stuff being fluff that I'd just tone down/disable anyway (if given the option). I don't want my FPS being shot in the bum thanks to some detail that I won't ever see...

WTE_Galway
09-23-2008, 05:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
and what about animating all the fishes in the deep blue ocean and realistic oyster and clam beds? I really want them too! Oleg are you listening? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correctly modeled fishies will be essential in a future SWP theater based addon.

jarink
09-23-2008, 06:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
I keep telling you guys that your are thinking small.

SOW is going to be bigger than any of us can possibly imagine.

Trust me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ever hear the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none"? That's exactly what I don't want to see from SoW.

We've always heard how 1C has a small dev team with limited time and stuff has to be prioritized. (At least, that's the reason that's been given why there's so many things in IL2 that never made it into the sim, such as the Avia.) Given the dev team still has fewer than 2 dozen members, I can't help but think the time and resources spent on fluff like this are mis-allocated.

Anyone else heard the term "core competency"? 1C's "core competency" is building a flight simulator, not a total war simulator. When companies stop doing what they do best and start trying to do everything every other company out there (even ones not making flight sims) is doing, the core product suffers. This is what happened to Microsoft in the last few years. They dabbled with being an ISP, making search engines, trying to generate revenue with advertising, etc. etc. Their core products (Windows and Office) suffered accordingly and resulted in Vista being over budget, too long in development, buggy and lacking vital features in the end because MS had no choice but to get it out the door unfinished. When you say: "bigger than any of us can possibly imagine", I think back to the very similar promises made when Vista was being written. I don't care to see the same scenario happen here.

I doubt I'd buy SoW if they try and make it an "everything sim" and the aerial combat aspect isn't much better (I do really like the mention they made in the article of the improved DM) than what we already have with IL2. I wish I could trust you, ElAurens, but there has been precious little info coming from 1C that suggests serious work is being done on the core product other than some screenshots of the plane models.

ElAurens
09-23-2008, 06:50 PM
Why is everyone so negative these days?

Oh well.

Col.BBQ
09-23-2008, 09:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jarink:

Ever hear the phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none"? That's exactly what I don't want to see from SoW.

We've always heard how 1C has a small dev team with limited time and stuff has to be prioritized. (At least, that's the reason that's been given why there's so many things in IL2 that never made it into the sim, such as the Avia.) Given the dev team still has fewer than 2 dozen members, I can't help but think the time and resources spent on fluff like this are mis-allocated. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some will call this pushing the boundaries of combat simulators. Face it, Il-2 evolved a lot over the seven years and will evolve even more so in SOW but the ground pounding part is somewhat stale. There really is no difference between a Sherman and a Panzer except for shape and hit points. This goes for all ground objects where ground object simply explodes when hit with .30 to .50 caliber bullets. It will be nice to see AAA guns more difficult to take out when the gunners are behind sandbags or see a battle damaged tank just smoldering from a AP hit.

LEXX_Luthor
09-23-2008, 10:42 PM
Correct jarink. Oleg may have become disillusioned with pure combat flight sims and might hope to branch out. Recall the negativity displayed in our Pay-Pay Poll that went heavily against Oleg's ultimate wish. So now the Moscow Bureau is diluting resources BIG TIME. Its a bet. It may win, or it may lose. One thing in favour of the bet is that infantry don't Whine about flight models. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

If it causes BoB And Beyond to be that bad, another will step forward. But I think Oleg has it sewn up hands down provided he learned from the blunders made in this sim.

coolinoz
09-24-2008, 12:02 AM
Oleg is better looking with a mustache (or mo as we say down under http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif}

Da_Godfatha
09-24-2008, 08:08 AM
Ho-hum http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The same Bla-bla as usual. Underwater? What about FM's and DM's? Are they going to get it right this time, or are we going to have UFO's...er that's the Spitfire (sorry forgot we already have them) or more realistic? Mmmmm?

It is still vaporware untill the first demo is out.

GF http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Oh, and yes, some of are negative. What is it now? A year or more since the 4.09 FOOKING BETA patch is out??? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

SaQSoN
09-24-2008, 03:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jarink:
Whaaahuuh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

What the *&$#@&$ does a flight sim need "underwater graphics" for?? Geez, I get more worried each time I see some new news about SoW. Worried that it will take forever to be released. Worried that it will not run on any mainstream hardware currently available (let alone my 3-year old rig). Worried that all this extra <STRIKE>stuff</STRIKE> fluff is taking up too much of the dev team's time to the detriment of the game's core: aerial combat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I heard, they say on TV, a video games make people stupid. You know what? I never believed that bullsht. Well... Until now... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The underwater surface (read "river- and seabed") is a part of landscape modeling, which will allow damaged ships, planes and other objects to sink realistically, instead of magically disappear in a shallow waters. It is also required for a more realistic modeling of various nautical objects physics and behavior.

Thought, all the above should be obvious to an average intelligent person... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

triad773
09-24-2008, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaQSoN:

The underwater surface (read "river- and seabed") is a part of landscape modeling, which will allow damaged ships, planes and other objects to sink realistically, instead of magically disappear in a shallow waters. It is also required for a more realistic modeling of various nautical objects physics and behavior.

Thought, all the above should be obvious to an average intelligent person... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice. From my 6 month cruise with SHIV, I learnt a little appreciation of water graphics. Watching a ship sink in Silent Hunter you realize that IL-2's graphics engine wasn't made for that level of quality. BoB:SoW should be quite a trip http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Looking forward to it and thanks.

Triad

Da_Godfatha
09-24-2008, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaQSoN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jarink:
Whaaahuuh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

What the *&$#@&$ does a flight sim need "underwater graphics" for?? Geez, I get more worried each time I see some new news about SoW. Worried that it will take forever to be released. Worried that it will not run on any mainstream hardware currently available (let alone my 3-year old rig). Worried that all this extra <STRIKE>stuff</STRIKE> fluff is taking up too much of the dev team's time to the detriment of the game's core: aerial combat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I heard, they say on TV, a video games make people stupid. You know what? I never believed that bullsht. Well... Until now... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The underwater surface (read "river- and seabed") is a part of landscape modeling, which will allow damaged ships, planes and other objects to sink realistically, instead of magically disappear in a shallow waters. It is also required for a more realistic modeling of various nautical objects physics and behavior.

Thought, all the above should be obvious to an average intelligent person... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm, you do know you have just violated the forum rules? No amount of smileys hide the fact you just insulted a forum member. But, you are a legend in your own mind, so you will get away with it, and most likely my post will be edited, wutever. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Anyway, all talk until at least the demo comes out. So, you guys should just save it until you have little more than a few old pictures or old info to give. Still smells like vaporware to me (and a lot other people also).

GF http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

waffen-79
09-24-2008, 04:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
and what about animating all the fishes in the deep blue ocean and realistic oyster and clam beds? I really want them too! Oleg are you listening? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correctly modeled fishies will be essential in a future SWP theater based addon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

pffft correctly modeled fish?

What we really need are:

SHARKS with frigging LASERS!

Dolphins with Torpedoes and last but not least Mine Laying Stingrays BE SURE!!!

stalkervision
09-24-2008, 04:19 PM
correctly modeled fishies will add immensely to being a british sailor on a ship in the channel. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ElAurens
09-24-2008, 04:34 PM
Da_Godfather proves once again that intelligence is not a prerequisite for posting here.

Only someone who lives in a cave would think that SOW is vapor ware at this juncture.

luftluuver
09-24-2008, 04:52 PM
So all this time spent on superfluous eye candy means the that every detail (FMs, DMs, etc, etc) regarding the a/c are perfect?

Bremspropeller
09-24-2008, 04:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Da_Godfather proves once again that intelligence is not a prerequisite for posting here.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I owe you a virtual beer, El http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Urufu_Shinjiro
09-24-2008, 04:59 PM
Guys relax, this is Oleg we're talking about, you think he's gonna make all this eyecandy and then leave the sim a crappy game?! The only reason all you see is this eyecandy is because it's pretty damn hard to take a picture of an FM and post it on the web isn't it.

LEXX_Luthor
09-24-2008, 05:34 PM
About the underwater grafix.

Oleg is a hobbiest underwater photographer. Be Sure his next Airsim or Subsim will have grafix dedicated to the undersea warfare environment.

jarink you are correct. I wish Oleg would model the air warfare environment, as then Oleg would then BE THE FIRST cfs developer to do so, as the air warfare environment, which is the driver of all historical air combat, has never been modelled in The Sims. Perhaps someday.

But not today.

If only Oleg were a hobbiest weather photographer. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/Heart.gif

jarink
09-24-2008, 05:36 PM
Edited.

SaQSoN, you need...something. I don't know what. I'm not a psychologist.

Frankly, after originally writing this post I reconsidered arguing against your misguided conceptions and have decided you aren't worth the effort. Your post shows you for what you are.

See ya, guys! Maybe next time we can have a reasonable adult discussion.

LEXX_Luthor
09-24-2008, 05:49 PM
Got get em jarink! The underwater camera is for underwater sight seeing hobbiests and its FANTASTIC! But its best suited for a Subsim or as dedicated underwater enthusiast software. Below is what Oleg should be making for a moving camera in a combat air sim.

This, is eye candy, the beginning and end of mass loyal *Airsim* customers.
This, is the air warfare environment, the start and finish of all air combat through history... <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Cumulonimbus calvus
Guam, US Pacific Territory, October 2000
http://www.chitambo.com/clouds/cloudsimages/low/cb_cal_guam_oct00.jpg

This awesome tropical cloud looks like it's growing from the ocean. Well, it basically is, growing into incredible heights. In the dark portion to the left it's raining, to the right the weather is fair. This shows how quickly weather can change in the tropics.

~ http://www.chitambo.com/clouds/cloudshtml/calvus.html#Anchorcal1
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If only Oleg were a weather photographer! DO'H

Bearcat99
09-24-2008, 06:50 PM
It kills me the way so many are second guessing O & 1C... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

None of us know where all this is going or what the plans are fo the future of this sim (SoW) so why second guess at all? I am certain that whatever it is it will be a d@mn good product and it will be just as revolutionary when it is released as IL2 was when it was released...

heywooood
09-24-2008, 08:25 PM
corrected underwater detail to include river beds...harbor floors...etc.

damage to parts of ships...rudder and prop damage...hull damage...hmmm

Torpedo / bomb damage and realistic sinking ships?

Better road detail...likely with more accurate terrain hugging and road contours with actual bends in the railroads and streets instead of the hard sharp corners and straightedges we have now...thats nice.

it is for a game of war is it not?

Who can say that these things come at the expense of the atmospheric modeling of clouds and turbulence?

Who has said that flight and damage models of the flyable aircraft would be compromised for these other enhancements?

Sure LeXX's perfect clouds look purty and all and they are at least as important as the rest of the virtual environment we hope to fly in...no doubt about it.

Fact is Olegs small team is the best at this so far...hands down...and because there isnt a huge demographic to pull from, there really is no other way to develope a combat flight sim - there just aint enough money to pay a big ol' outfit and besides - EA or some other monstrosity would only bake up an even more 'commercially acceptable' version of air combat than Olegs is and you all know it - it would be the 'Pearl Harbor' film of flight sims and you would choke on it.

So how about just taking it all in - up here in the foyer...and wait until the house actually opens before you start calling it crap

WTE_Galway
09-24-2008, 08:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
correctly modeled fishies will add immensely to being a british sailor on a ship in the channel. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Stolen at great personal risk from the SOW development server ... secret beta prototypes of Oleg's new fishies:


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/clannagh/fishies.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
09-24-2008, 10:26 PM
Good on WTE.

il2skins.com
bobscales.com

---

heywoood:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Sure LeXX's perfect clouds look purty and all and they are at least as important as the rest of the virtual environment we hope to fly in...no doubt about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
"Perfect?"

"look purty and all"

Why the biting little comments?

If you wish to learn about WW2 air warfare and, at the same time, how to attract and keep paying customers, we may talk here. If not, okay. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WTE_Galway
09-24-2008, 11:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Good on WTE.

il2skins.com
bobscales.com

---

heywoood:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Sure LeXX's perfect clouds look purty and all and they are at least as important as the rest of the virtual environment we hope to fly in...no doubt about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
"Perfect?"

"look purty and all"

Why the biting little comments?

If you wish to learn about WW2 air warfare and, at the same time, how to attract and keep paying customers, we may talk here. If not, okay. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


no seriously ... i am actually quite pleased Oleg is doing detailed fish with independent swim models

LEXX_Luthor
09-25-2008, 12:02 PM
Well something has to be done to improve the default scales.

And everybody knows Oleg porked the Tuna buoyancy model so it can't climb, although the arcade gamers swimming the Shark on full teeth servers won't admit it, its their new Noob fish.

HuninMunin
09-25-2008, 12:18 PM
To my eyes it's absolutely great that Oleg dares to and feels to have the resources to drive the engine to a new level of capability.

If they implement features that at first glance seem like wasted time, it is because the real deal is longliveability ( that a word ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif ).
Every single inovation will enable modular expansion of the game.
I for one am more then eager to see how far the combined arms thought will lead us in the future.
Products like WW2 online are awesome fun, the only downside beeing technical issues.
We all know the high level of quality and integrety that is always aimed for here.

How long will it be until the first 3rd party developer / user will model the interior of say a Panzer IV or Matilda?
If you ask me it's a great time for the flight sim community.
And as I don't plan to die in the next couple of years it's more then allright for Maddox to take the time to deliver a A+ product.

ElAurens
09-25-2008, 03:44 PM
HuninMunin,

You sir get it.

If we ever meet the first beer is on me.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

LEXX_Luthor
09-25-2008, 05:19 PM
Hunnin:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Products like WW2 online are awesome fun, the only downside beeing technical issues. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly!

Combined arms games must sacrifice the air combat simulation.

Bremspropeller
09-25-2008, 05:24 PM
Why?

heywooood
09-25-2008, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Good on WTE.

il2skins.com
bobscales.com

---

heywoood:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Sure LeXX's perfect clouds look purty and all and they are at least as important as the rest of the virtual environment we hope to fly in...no doubt about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
"Perfect?"

"look purty and all"

Why the biting little comments?

If you wish to learn about WW2 air warfare and, at the same time, how to attract and keep paying customers, we may talk here. If not, okay. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think its the fish that are biting not my comments, where I give equal weight and value to cloud and atmospheric modeling as I do to the combat aspects of it, not derision.

I would rather think that 1c is on a broader path for good reason than second guess and berate them for not keeping a narrower focus - at least until the results can be measured.

Oh please all knowing Luthor...shed the light of understanding on me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif for I am Canadian and thereby dense and unwitting.

ElAurens
09-25-2008, 07:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Combined arms games must sacrifice the air combat simulation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Small thinking from small minds.

So sad.

WTE_Galway
09-25-2008, 07:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Well something has to be done to improve the default scales.

And everybody knows Oleg porked the Tuna buoyancy model so it can't climb, although the arcade gamers swimming the Shark on full teeth servers won't admit it, its their new Noob fish. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I actually do not have any serious issues with the modeling of the tuna. I am far more concerned about the mullet which is under-modeled to the point of being useless and the Sturgeon which, typically, is über as you would expect from a Russian fish in this sim.

LEXX_Luthor
09-25-2008, 08:09 PM
heywoood:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">keeping a narrower focus - at least until the results can be measured. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Narrow focus is correct -- a narrow focus on advancing combat flight sims. We don't disagree here. In an undersea SubSim, the underwater warfare environment *is* more important than the air warfare environment.

But if we want the "wide" focus of the Pay-To-Play WW2 Online, then I can see Oleg going in that direction. WW2 Online seems to have lots of monthly fee paying customers. It CAN work businesswise, but just not what I want to see for myself.

LEXX_Luthor
09-25-2008, 09:07 PM
WTE:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...the Sturgeon which, typically, is über as you would expect from a Russian fish in this sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Typical rant from the blue fin side.

Learn how to swim.

WTE_Galway
09-25-2008, 09:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
WTE:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...the Sturgeon which, typically, is über as you would expect from a Russian fish in this sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Typical rant from the blue fin side.

Learn how to swim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I beg to differ. the behavior of Sturgeon in SOW clearly contradicts all historical and anecdotal evidence about how actual Sturgeon in the summer of 1940 swam. I would also point out that the number of Sturgeon present during the BoB was quite small and it seems unreasonable to include this fish at the expense of fish more commonly seen at the time like Haddock.

LEXX_Luthor
09-25-2008, 11:07 PM
If you had Game and Fish Department swim test charts you might have an argument.

WTE_Galway
09-25-2008, 11:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
If you had Game and Fish Department swim test charts you might have an argument. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I presume you mean a chart like this ...

http://www.fsl.orst.edu/geowater/FX3/help/Graphics/ScreenSnaps/Database.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
09-26-2008, 12:35 AM
Got track?

Send the track and chart to Oleg, he might fix the Arctic grayling.

Bearcat99
09-26-2008, 01:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Hunnin:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Products like WW2 online are awesome fun, the only downside beeing technical issues. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly!

Combined arms games must sacrifice the air combat simulation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly...

Look we are talking 1C here.. now I don't think that they are superhuman or anything, but based on the revolutionary nature of IL2.. which is really what this (46)is all based on.. and look at it.. Who knew back in 2001 that that new sim from Russia with the funny name would go on to become The definitive WWII flight sim.. and not only that.. but hold that crown pretty much uncontested for almost a decade.. Pretty good stuff if you ask me.. and I say based on 1C's track record... bring on the fish and whatever else they want to toss in there.. the flight sim part will be a given.. The rest is gravy.

UgoRipley
09-26-2008, 05:32 AM
C'mon guys, you still don't get it ??

What are you supposed to eat if you get downed in the Channel ??
We'll have a small fishing kit, we'll deploy a line and a hook, therefore we NEED correctly modelled fishes...for our own survival, waiting for SAR !!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ElAurens
09-26-2008, 05:40 AM
Right on Bearcat!

Imagine unbuttoning the hatch on your Matilda somewhere in the Western Desert, and having your squadmates flying top cover for you in lend lease Tomahawks, and all the machines, land and air, are equally well modeled.

Works for me.

Bremspropeller
09-26-2008, 10:00 AM
Same for me.

Puts the word "immersion" to a whole new level http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

luftluuver
09-26-2008, 10:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Exactly...

Look we are talking 1C here.. now I don't think that they are superhuman or anything, but based on the revolutionary nature of IL2.. which is really what this (46)is all based on.. and look at it.. Who knew back in 2001 that that new sim from Russia with the funny name would go on to become The definitive WWII flight sim.. and not only that.. but hold that crown pretty much uncontested for almost a decade.. Pretty good stuff if you ask me.. and I say based on 1C's track record... bring on the fish and whatever else they want to toss in there.. the flight sim part will be a given.. The rest is gravy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yet it is my understanding, with all its eye candy, there was problems with the FMs and is still being tweaked.

Chivas
09-26-2008, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yet it is my understanding, with all its eye candy, there was problems with the FMs and is still being tweaked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes the FM's will be tweaked until one day we are sitting in the actual cockpit of a flyable WW2 aircraft. Even then some will fly with few complaints while others will be a constant whine to their crew chiefs. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

luftluuver
09-26-2008, 10:33 AM
Yes but some of the a/c had MAJOR problems.

Bremspropeller
09-26-2008, 10:35 AM
Thatswhy it hasn't been released yet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Does it matter if there WERE any issues?
They didn't release it with the gliutches, did they?
Anybody hurt?

Guess not.

luftluuver
09-26-2008, 10:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Thatswhy it hasn't been released yet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Does it matter if there WERE any issues?
They didn't release it with the gliutches, did they?
Anybody hurt?

Guess not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is because they are working on the eye candy. Not my understanding about the original Il-2. There was MAJOR FM issues and in subsequent patches.

Note, I am not saying eye candy is not important but the a/c are more important as it is a flight game.

dbuff
09-26-2008, 12:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Why is everyone so negative these days?

Oh well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This flipping board is full of the most negative whining candy a**es I have ever seen.
What did you expect. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LEXX_Luthor
09-26-2008, 07:10 PM
Now, I'm sure an Oleg WW2 Online would be "good" and "fun" for the online Pay-To-Play segment which Oleg has always wanted to target, but it remains undiscussed and undisputed here that a combined arms sim must sacrifice the detail potential that could otherwise be focused on the air warfare simulation.

Brems:: Why?

Very simple: WW2 Online.

Its no coincidence the WW2 Online Pay-To-Play sim was taken here as a "good" comparison for Oleg to follow.

stalkervision
09-26-2008, 07:37 PM
I wonder if the ai fishies will be able to be skinned in different tropical color schemes? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Da_Godfatha
09-27-2008, 06:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Da_Godfather proves once again that intelligence is not a prerequisite for posting here.

Only someone who lives in a cave would think that SOW is vapor ware at this juncture. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, You told me, didn't you!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Vaporware, untill something more than a few old shots are released. You do know they are STILL working on Duke Nukem Forever still? After how many years. That is what I am beginning to think the Sow is too. But you know everything and are the smartest MoFo here, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

GF http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Bremspropeller
09-27-2008, 07:01 AM
GF, do you know that the nicest of all freedoms is?
The freedom to shut up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Urufu_Shinjiro
09-27-2008, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:

Vaporware, untill something more than a few old shots are released. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why the heck does everyone still say this, there have been a ton of NEW screenshots released on the banana forums in the last month, two months. Oleg has been answering questions all over the place this month. That is not vaporware, that is just a long development.

partic_3
09-27-2008, 08:24 AM
Yes, yes, but can they release it before the depression puts the kybosh on the whole business?

larschance
09-27-2008, 08:35 AM
I can understand Oleg looking to his future earnings by spreading the appeal of a new all encompassing sim but I agree with others here that he knows the aerial combat experience is what sold this sim for so long.
Never mind the fish or water aspects I would like to start a mission in the briefing room then walk/run to my aircraft as a mechanic starts it up then carry out a take off and flight with an aircraft reasonably accurate in its FM and DM. Possibly with a chance as flight leader to choose my weapon layout as befitted some of the aces. And of course with friendly AI that follows orders and enemy AI that reacts more realistically. Let us hope the programming allows for that.

ElAurens
09-27-2008, 05:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
blah...blah...blah... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, apparently I do know more than you do on this subject son.

God Father indeed. I'd say schoolyard bully with .25 GPA is more likely.

WTE_Galway
09-28-2008, 05:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
I wonder if the ai fishies will be able to be skinned in different tropical color schemes? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The word around the streets is color schemes will work fine but you will need a mod if you want the tropical gills.

LEXX_Luthor
09-28-2008, 05:43 PM
Partic3:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yes, yes, but can they release it before the depression puts the kybosh on the whole business? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think in a depression, long lasting forms of entertainment would be popular. Single purchase computer games may fit that bill. I dunno. Online Pay-To-Play is implied by "combined arms" and so would cost, well, a monthly fee.

If we have a credit collapse, the Sims developers/publishers might go back to Mail Order, like successful businesses used in the distant Forgotten Past (FP).

Chivas
09-28-2008, 11:04 PM
I can't see the SOW series going combined arms for many years after the release of BOB. It won't happen until after a few major air theaters of the series are done and more advanced computers become available.

Urufu_Shinjiro
09-29-2008, 05:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
I can't see the SOW series going combined arms for many years after the release of BOB. It won't happen until after a few major air theaters of the series are done and more advanced computers become available. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, they are just making sure that the groundwork is there so these sorts of things can be added as modules down the road. There's no need for all this speculation, Oleg himself said that they were looking at doing this in the future, most likely by third parties.