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Panzerknacker01
03-12-2007, 06:03 PM
I know it's picky, but Il2 is such a phenomenal game that has virtually everything right, I'm a little confused why the default tracer color for the Luftwaffe 2cm MG151/20 cannon ammunition is BLUE- I've been a collector of Luftwaffe relics for a long time and I've never come across a round of 2cm ammunition that had a blue tracer. Yellow, red, orange, white- all yes, but no blue. There was such a thing as 'night' tracer- intended not to cause the night fighter pilots to end up with lines of light in their vision when firing their weapons, and that might have been blue (I've never actually been able to confirm what night tracer means- color or just a much smaller, dimmer trace), but standard ammunition is what's used by regular dayfighters. Blue is not only incorrect, but hard to see- when they made the corrections to the exceptionally big muzzle flash of the 3cm MK108 cannon and altered the look of the tracers in flight, I would have hoped they'd address the issue of this odd color choice, but apparently that wasn't known about or considered- does anyone know where I can write to let the designers (or whomever) know of this small error?

Matt

Panzerknacker01
03-12-2007, 06:03 PM
I know it's picky, but Il2 is such a phenomenal game that has virtually everything right, I'm a little confused why the default tracer color for the Luftwaffe 2cm MG151/20 cannon ammunition is BLUE- I've been a collector of Luftwaffe relics for a long time and I've never come across a round of 2cm ammunition that had a blue tracer. Yellow, red, orange, white- all yes, but no blue. There was such a thing as 'night' tracer- intended not to cause the night fighter pilots to end up with lines of light in their vision when firing their weapons, and that might have been blue (I've never actually been able to confirm what night tracer means- color or just a much smaller, dimmer trace), but standard ammunition is what's used by regular dayfighters. Blue is not only incorrect, but hard to see- when they made the corrections to the exceptionally big muzzle flash of the 3cm MK108 cannon and altered the look of the tracers in flight, I would have hoped they'd address the issue of this odd color choice, but apparently that wasn't known about or considered- does anyone know where I can write to let the designers (or whomever) know of this small error?

Matt

AKA_TAGERT
03-12-2007, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Panzerknacker01:
I'm a little confused why the default tracer color for the Luftwaffe 2cm MG151/20 cannon ammunition is BLUE </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.startrekdesktopwallpaper.com/wallpapers/StarTrek_starship_Enterprise_NCC1701A_firing_phase rs_freecomputerdesktop_wallpaper_1024.jpg

Nuff Said?

Panzerknacker01
03-12-2007, 07:11 PM
Because the Enterprise's phasers are blue? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

AKA_TAGERT
03-12-2007, 07:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Panzerknacker01:
Because the Enterprise's phasers are blue? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because the MG151/20 are Enterprise phasers

Lurch1962
03-12-2007, 07:16 PM
I too have been mystified by the odd colours of some A/C and shipboard tracer rounds! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

It would be nice to know if blue and purplish-magenta tracer mixtures really were used, or even existed...

--Lurch--

Panzerknacker01
03-12-2007, 07:26 PM
And so what the 3cm MK108 is the photon torpedoes? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Besides the phasers were red before they were blue (the Corbomite Maneuver), and then orange-red again in the films... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Panzerknacker01
03-12-2007, 07:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lurch1962:
I too have been mystified by the odd colours of some A/C and shipboard tracer rounds! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

It would be nice to know if blue and purplish-magenta tracer mixtures really were used, or even existed...

--Lurch-- </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well as I mentioned, I've never seen a Luftwaffe round with a blue tracer, and definitely not a purple-magenta. Red, white, orange and yellow were it. Red and yellow were the main ones on aircraft Bordwaffen and Flak ammunition.

FritzGryphon
03-12-2007, 11:32 PM
I've never seen any Luftwaffe tracer. I understand they are very rare.

BBB_Hyperion
03-13-2007, 06:40 AM
Btw as you are here could MG FF Ammo (Mineshell) without rework used on MG151/20. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sequence for MG151/20 should be
APIT - HE - HE - API - HE
APIT - HE - HE - MG - MG

Is Al-Mg-Cu Blue ? al-mg is green .

tigertalon
03-13-2007, 07:48 AM
We have two different sequences for Mg151:

1. Most commonly used: APIT-HE-MG-MG-MG
2. Used on 109 gondolas, He162 and maybe some others: APIT-HE-MG

waffen-79
03-13-2007, 10:17 AM
You nice?

BBB_Hyperion
03-13-2007, 10:44 AM
Try here most likely the only place where someone works on il2 series .)
luthier at rrgstudios.com

Not sure if old beta still runs
pf at 1c.ru
46 at 1c.ru

Panzerknacker01
03-13-2007, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
I've never seen any Luftwaffe tracer. I understand they are very rare. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Considering only one in 4,5,6 or ? rounds in a belt was a tracer (depending on supply more likely than 'the book'), yeah, they're considerably less-common than non-tracer rounds. But they're not terribly so- I have a number of them. For the 2cm stuff, they're not of the Minengeschoss type, they're incendiary or API, although for larger and smaller I have HE-T rounds (13mm, 15mm and 3cm). The 2cm MG151/20 round I have with a tracer (red) is an HEI variety.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Btw as you are here could MG FF Ammo (Mineshell) without rework used on MG151/20.

Sequence for MG151/20 should be
APIT - HE - HE - API - HE
APIT - HE - HE - MG - MG

Is Al-Mg-Cu Blue ? al-mg is green . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, like many German weapons, the MGFF and MG151/20 might have shared projectiles, but since the guns themselves are quite different, the cases are too and are thus not interchangable. The MGFF case is not necked and is about the same diameter as the shell (a bit wider at the base), and the MG151/20's case is necked and thus wider.

I'm not sure what the recommended or textbook loading sequence is (I do know I have something in some reference or other), but can tell you from photographs of Waffenwarte in action loading planes, it definitely wasn't adhered to strictly in the field. Given the issues of supply, and probably even pilot preference, loadouts varied quite a bit I would think. I've seen mixes of two HE to one AP, and even entire loads of just HE (hard to tell the exact variant in a B/W photograph http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

As for the incendiary fillings, blue was generally the indicator color (as was red lettering on a yellow Flak shell [HEI]), but no green. A green band below the fuze was the indicator of a self-destruct fuze type (ZZ). I'm not familiar with any other form of green marking on a Luftwaffe ammunition type- that is save for a green band below the nose on a special high-velocity form of the 7,92mmx56 round, sometimes used by rear gunners; I know of some great photos of Hans Rudel's gunner loading his MG81s with this type.

Matt

Panzerknacker01
03-13-2007, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Try here most likely the only place where someone works on il2 series .)
luthier at rrgstudios.com

Not sure if old beta still runs
pf at 1c.ru
46 at 1c.ru </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool, thanks Hyperion.

AKA_TAGERT
03-13-2007, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by waffen-79:
You nice? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
make it so

arrow80
03-13-2007, 03:15 PM
Well I don't care about the true colour of the tracer. But I wouldn't like to see Mg151/20 porked again just because of the tracer colour change, as Mg151/20 could again loose its MG shells or something other. It works, leave it as it is, please

PFflyer
03-15-2007, 08:23 AM
I figures, that a Russian would put the harder to see tracer color on the german aircraft.....