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View Full Version : Tip on using Microsoft sidewinder Force Feedback 2



DooDaH2007
03-27-2007, 09:50 AM
I posted this same message in the community help forum, but I thought some people might not know they have a problem so won't look there...

so here goes:

If you have the Microsoft sidewinder game controller software installed, goto the forces tab and turn OFF 'return-to-center-tension'...

'return-to-center-tension' is for games that do not support force feedback, I read just a few days ago...

In-game you will now notice that there is no center-tension while standing still on the runway, but an ever increasing 'return-to-center-tension' the faster you go...
(simulating the feel of more wind pressing against the control surfaces)

It was one of those little things that made a world of difference...

DooDaH2007
03-27-2007, 09:50 AM
I posted this same message in the community help forum, but I thought some people might not know they have a problem so won't look there...

so here goes:

If you have the Microsoft sidewinder game controller software installed, goto the forces tab and turn OFF 'return-to-center-tension'...

'return-to-center-tension' is for games that do not support force feedback, I read just a few days ago...

In-game you will now notice that there is no center-tension while standing still on the runway, but an ever increasing 'return-to-center-tension' the faster you go...
(simulating the feel of more wind pressing against the control surfaces)

It was one of those little things that made a world of difference...

Engadin
03-27-2007, 02:03 PM
Hey DooDaH2007, thanks for that useful tip! :http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif: I haven´t installed the SW FFB2 yet but have read so much about the forcefeedback troubles I´ll have to face that any help - like yours - is very welcomed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

S! engadin

Bearcat99
03-27-2007, 03:49 PM
FFB is the way to go IMO. I was never a huge fan of the gun shake.... but the stick forces as far as flying go are key IMO.... Now here is a tip for you..... This sim supports up to 4 controllers..... so if you already have the best FFB joystick made on Earth to date.... then you can add to that some kind of throttle setup... and some rudder pedals and Track IR and have the best of all worlds...

http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/my_rig_2.jpg
Before I modded my X-45 .... even then I used the stick part as a button bay.

http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/myrig.jpg
After I modded the X-45 it became a little more... functional.... but even with the stick on the desk... it was a great setup. I also change my pedals from the CH pedals to the Saitek ones.... To tell the truth I like the Saitek ones better... how sturdy they are remains to be seen. I got the CH pedals at least 5 years ago.... they still work fine but I wanted a wider stance and the Saiteks offered that.

http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/X-45mod.jpg
I imagine that the same thing could be done with an X-52.... and the Saitek reconditioned items site (http://saitekusa.stores.yahoo.net/recprod.html) offers a reconditioned one for $70...

Lehnert
03-27-2007, 04:49 PM
Wow - what an awesame craftmans work to built this X-45 controller !!
Really.

I take my hat ........

Cheers
Gerhard

Bearcat99
03-27-2007, 04:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lehnert:
Wow - what an awesame craftmans work to built this X-45 controller !!
Really.

I take my hat ........

Cheers
Gerhard </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It wasnt hard.. I just cut the base in half, drilled holes for the pots & switches... the pot on the left ogf the tyhrottle is the X axis.. and the other one is the Y axis... I use them for flaps and rudder trim. A Dremel tool really helps. I just had to splice some wires back together.. I wonder how that would go with an X-52?

stalkervision
03-27-2007, 05:10 PM
My old MSFF stick pro original version won't work anymore with the new software in Xp... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Buster_Dee
03-29-2007, 05:44 PM
Here's some worthless info. I use an old gameport FFB, and I rarely have trouble with it (after I got wise to using the canned XP drivers). But, once in a while, forces drop out. I shake the stick around a bit, and it pops back in. It doesn't like it when you drop to the desktop from the game: the forces go away and stay that way until I relaunch the game. But I avoid that now and have few problems.

Sure wish Microsloth would start building them again. My only complaint was the slight "hunting" that goes on when you try to aim with a level plane. You don't often fire from theat attitude anyway though.

Bearcat99
03-29-2007, 06:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Buster_Dee:
Here's some worthless info. I use an old gameport FFB, and I rarely have trouble with it (after I got wise to using the canned XP drivers). But, once in a while, forces drop out. I shake the stick around a bit, and it pops back in. It doesn't like it when you drop to the desktop from the game: the forces go away and stay that way until I relaunch the game. But I avoid that now and have few problems.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a squaddie who has a USB FFB2.. and it does the same thing so dont feel special... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

SeaVee
03-29-2007, 07:22 PM
DoDaH2007:

Thanks sooo much for this tip. I have tried it in both Il2 and BoB2 and it does in fact make a big difference in the immersion factor and sense of flight.

I hope you don't mind but I posted a link to this thread over at the Shockwave BoB2 forum - of course gave you full credit for the info as well.

Those without FFB sticks don't know what they are missing.

DooDaH2007
03-30-2007, 08:02 AM
You are welcome SeaVee...

I now also see where I read this about center-tension...
In the help file of the gamecontroller-software, under 'customizing the joystick settings/Adjusting the forces' it reads:

"
Return-to-center tension"refers to the force required for you to move the joystick in either direction. Increasing this tension makes it harder to move the joystick. The return-to-center tension is used primarily by games that don't have force feedback.
"

Since il-2 supports force feedback, this piece of text is what made me try...
So half the credit goes to the help file http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ploughman
03-30-2007, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
My old MSFF stick pro original version won't work anymore with the new software in Xp... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've got XP and a game ported MS Sidwinder FFB Pro and it works fine. My one quibble is that the FFB for the .50s on the Mustang is more like you'd expcet if it was packing 6 inch naval artillery. One other weird thing is in BoB: WoV I have to turn FFB off for it to work (go figure).

major_setback
03-30-2007, 10:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Buster_Dee:
Here's some worthless info. I use an old gameport FFB, and I rarely have trouble with it (after I got wise to using the canned XP drivers). But, once in a while, forces drop out. I shake the stick around a bit, and it pops back in. It doesn't like it when you drop to the desktop from the game: the forces go away and stay that way until I relaunch the game. But I avoid that now and have few problems.....
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


No need to reboot!



Someone posted an easy fix to that problem a while ago (ie. losing forces in game, especially online). Just select another (different) plane, then go back to your plane of choice. Force feedback should have returned (without having to reboot).

DooDaH2007
03-31-2007, 05:26 PM
The game controller software does not like alt-tab'ing in and out of the game... You will loose center-tension if you were flying a mission...

This center-tension to my knowledge, will not return until you refly your current, or start another mission...

Also the joystick seems to have a sensor to detect wether or not it is beeing held to activate the forces, so it would not flap around when you let go of it...
Sometimes, when you hold it lightly, maybe between two fingers, the forces will suddenly turn of...
Grabbing a good hold of the joystick will maken them turn back on...

uhh... lol, Now that I reread my post for spellchecking, I cannot help but laugh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Anyone else reading what I now read http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Never mind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

willyvic
04-01-2007, 12:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DooDaH2007:
...Also the joystick seems to have a sensor to detect wether or not it is beeing held to activate the forces, so it would not flap around when you let go of it...
Sometimes, when you hold it lightly, maybe between two fingers, the forces will suddenly turn of...
Grabbing a good hold of the joystick will maken them turn back on...

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
There is indeed a sensor on the joystick. It is in the little hole on the front base of the hand grip. For those that want stiff inputs a little tape or such covering the hole will result in more tension from the get go.

WV

BS_YB
04-03-2007, 04:39 PM
Got a msffb2 usb and use it without the microsoft software that came with the stick as XP seems to recognise it ok , and il2 (all versions) give good forces , especially at different speeds.

I have used Fedit to calm down the gameforces, and put only use SHAKE and SPRING forces in the il2 forcefeedback folder (spare forces dropped into a holding folder in case of future use).

Is there any advantage in using the software that came with the stick as it seemed to me to be a bit over complicated when assigning buttons again instead of just doing it in game.

YB

DooDaH2007
04-04-2007, 08:01 AM
the software allows you to adjust the forces strenght and assign deadzone...
You can then make profiles for your games...

T_O_A_D
04-04-2007, 07:14 PM
Is there a way to do this without the software. IIRC the software has a problem with service pac2. So I have not reinstalled it since the last format.

DooDaH2007
04-06-2007, 11:12 AM
What I read about SP2 is that you have to boot into safe mode, at which point you can setup the software, then reboot normally and it will work...

Wurkeri
04-09-2007, 08:22 AM
I have been using MSFFB2 stick long time with normal XP driver (gun related files removed from the forcefeedback folder) and it has worked pretty well; I prefer RC-transmitter for normal flying but to hit something, a joystick with a trigger is definately better despite odd rudder control.

So I dug the installation CD from somewhere and updated the drivers. Overall the only difference I see with "no center tension" is when taking off, otherwise it's pretty much the same as earlier. Installation on the SP2 system went fine without need to boot safe mode.

EURO_Snoopy
04-09-2007, 01:41 PM
Great tip DooDah,, I've added it to the M4T Knowledge Base (http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Knowledge_Base&op=show&kid=327) fully credited http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gnomie
03-08-2009, 06:55 AM
Bump! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I wonder about the same thing:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
Is there a way to do this without the software. IIRC the software has a problem with service pac2. So I have not reinstalled it since the last format. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I got my stick yesterday, and I'm trying to configure it. It's working fine with XP, but I'd like to get rid of the centering spring if possible.

And what's the status on using the Sidewinder drivers? Do they work with XP, or not..? Seems like a lot of people have problems.. is there a tutorial somewhere for how to make it work?

Thanks!

squareusr
03-08-2009, 07:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wurkeri:
I prefer RC-transmitter for normal flying </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The range of inputs used to fly this sim is a never ending source of delight! I was considering this option too when i was still using wrist-operated joysticks. (on a related note, i stopped using a music keyboard for trim)

Chivas
03-08-2009, 12:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
My old MSFF stick pro original version won't work anymore with the new software in Xp... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it the forcefeedback that doesn't work or the recorder. You can get the recorder to work again in XP by a right click on My Computer...left click on Properties/ Advanced/Performance Settings/Data Execution Prevention/

At this point you can turn off DEP for the program that runs the MSFF software but this is where my memory fails me. Maybe do a search on Data Execution Prevention etc on the forums because I know there have been posts regarding this.

Xiolablu3
03-09-2009, 07:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
My old MSFF stick pro original version won't work anymore with the new software in Xp... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure? My MS FF Pro Gameport works fine in XP Sp3

doogerie
03-09-2009, 05:02 PM
does ffb make and difrence in comabatdoes it make yo better or worse or is it justa realism thing or a bit of both i have never flowen froce feed back so i wan't to know

major_setback
03-10-2009, 06:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doogerie:
does ffb make and difrence in comabatdoes it make yo better or worse or is it justa realism thing or a bit of both i have never flowen froce feed back so i wan't to know </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you just feel more, generally:

You can feel some planes shake before they stall.
You can feel a sort of wing 'flutter' at times too, when planes arle close to a tight-turn-stall, although it was stronger (I think) in the original IL2 game. It is somethin I used to notice a lot in the Early Bf 109s, and gave a good indication of how near you were to stalling.
Using the above you can 'ride on the edge of a stall'.


You feel shells hit the aircraft (at times).
you feel your tires touch the runway.
You feel the incredible bounce effect of the inflated tyres as you gently land..you know when you have touched down.
You feel the force increse on the stick as it would in real life as you tighten a turn/pull up (I am just presuming this).

you feel the guns fire (though this is much too heavy, and it is a big disavantage).

You feel turbulance on the stick (also too heavy by far for my stick - MSFF2). This is also a disadvantage, as you have to struggle to shoot straight, and the stick is hard to hold).

Note: All of this is my personal experience of FF.

Bearcat99
03-10-2009, 07:46 AM
So to all you guys.. when you ALT TAB or win key out of the sim.. or you foget to turn MSN off and you get a PM.. that minimizes your screen./. do you loose all stick forces upon return?

tagTaken2
03-10-2009, 12:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DooDaH2007:
What I read about SP2 is that you have to boot into safe mode, at which point you can setup the software, then reboot normally and it will work... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Really? Will have to remember this for new sims when I set up a profile.

tagTaken2
03-10-2009, 12:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
So to all you guys.. when you ALT TAB or win key out of the sim.. or you foget to turn MSN off and you get a PM.. that minimizes your screen./. do you loose all stick forces upon return? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do.

TS_Sancho
03-10-2009, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
So to all you guys.. when you ALT TAB or win key out of the sim.. or you foget to turn MSN off and you get a PM.. that minimizes your screen./. do you loose all stick forces upon return? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, AFAIK the only fix is switching aircraft or restarting the game.

"you feel the guns fire (though this is much too heavy, and it is a big disavantage)."

Edit the IL2 FFB folder by removing the files for autocannon.ffe and machinegun.ffe. Works great for tightening aim on sticks setups with high input settings.

Woke_Up_Dead
03-10-2009, 01:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
you feel the guns fire (though this is much too heavy, and it is a big disavantage).
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can turn off the force feedback from just your guns by renaming a couple of files in your IL2 folder. Forgot exactly which ones, I'm at work right now, but I think that there is a "force feedback" folder that contains a "machine gun" and a "cannon" file, just add a ".bak" extension to those two files.

Yes, I also loose feedback when I alt-tab the game. Changing planes helps, so I try to alt-tab only when I'm on the ground.

SNY1926
03-12-2009, 06:02 PM
I have a microsoft ff2 and have been usibg it for some time. The force feed feature stopped working a while back. The large lightning flash says the force feed has no current. Since microsoft doesn't repair their products any more,I'm stuck. Has any one tried to repair any thing like this. It could be just a loose wire but I'm a pilot not a mechanic. Any comments?

Woke_Up_Dead
03-13-2009, 02:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Woke_Up_Dead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
you feel the guns fire (though this is much too heavy, and it is a big disavantage).
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can turn off the force feedback from just your guns by renaming a couple of files in your IL2 folder. Forgot exactly which ones, I'm at work right now, but I think that there is a "force feedback" folder that contains a "machine gun" and a "cannon" file, just add a ".bak" extension to those two files.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is strange, but the force feedback from the guns came back somehow! I deleted the two files, but I still get the vibrations. I made sure the force feedback for the guns is turned off in my joystick profile, that didn't fix it. TI recently upgraded to 4.09b, but I also installed the switcher and I usually still play in 4.08. I get the gun feedback in both 4.08 and 4.09. I think that the feedback is more varied now, perhaps that's why I didn't notice it; it's barely there in the Yaks that I usually fly. I only noticed it now when I tried the Mustang, the .50 cals really shake.

How can I still be getting the FFB from the guns if I deleted the auto-cannon and machine gun files in the Force Feedback folder?

Jabout
03-13-2009, 03:42 AM
Yes, I lose force feedback on Alt tabbing.

I can regain it by changing planes, but if on line I have to restart the game.

In the force feedback file you only need spring and shake to feel the stall approach, getting rid of the others gets rid of silly over done effects like turbulence.

My query is for those who use this stick with rudders, is there any way to stop the stick twist grip from twisting?

vassilisukharev
03-13-2009, 09:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is strange, but the force feedback from the guns came back somehow! I deleted the two files, but I still get the vibrations. I made sure the force feedback for the guns is turned off in my joystick profile, that didn't fix it. TI recently upgraded to 4.09b, but I also installed the switcher and I usually still play in 4.08. I get the gun feedback in both 4.08 and 4.09. I think that the feedback is more varied now, perhaps that's why I didn't notice it; it's barely there in the Yaks that I usually fly. I only noticed it now when I tried the Mustang, the .50 cals really shake. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are two parts to gun-related force feedback. There is always going to be some plane shaking whenever you shoot, that depends on the plane and the guns. That 'default' shaking is what you stil experience after deleting gun ffb files. Now the second part is the additional shake induced by specifically shooting, that is a lot more annoying and the part you can get rid of. In my experience, the default plane shake ffb doesn't impact my aim at all, beyond the shaking on my screen.

willyvic
03-13-2009, 09:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jabout:
...
My query is for those who use this stick with rudders, is there any way to stop the stick twist grip from twisting? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, by assigning the rudders in the hotas section. This will overwrite the twist as the rudder input.

WV

Jabout
03-13-2009, 11:08 AM
Yes, but it still turns twists in my hand.

Woke_Up_Dead
03-13-2009, 01:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vassilisukharev:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is strange, but the force feedback from the guns came back somehow! I deleted the two files, but I still get the vibrations. I made sure the force feedback for the guns is turned off in my joystick profile, that didn't fix it. TI recently upgraded to 4.09b, but I also installed the switcher and I usually still play in 4.08. I get the gun feedback in both 4.08 and 4.09. I think that the feedback is more varied now, perhaps that's why I didn't notice it; it's barely there in the Yaks that I usually fly. I only noticed it now when I tried the Mustang, the .50 cals really shake. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are two parts to gun-related force feedback. There is always going to be some plane shaking whenever you shoot, that depends on the plane and the guns. That 'default' shaking is what you stil experience after deleting gun ffb files. Now the second part is the additional shake induced by specifically shooting, that is a lot more annoying and the part you can get rid of. In my experience, the default plane shake ffb doesn't impact my aim at all, beyond the shaking on my screen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That makes sense, thanks.

jimtolve
03-13-2009, 07:27 PM
Hey guys,

I've got three MS Sidewinder FFB2's now, bought my first one in the summer of 2003 I believe. The last one I got was a little over a year ago, a brand new one which cost $140. In my opinion it wasn't to steep a price to pay; I love the stick. The weighted base, the size of the stick itself and the simplicity of the button design. I have to use the
keyboard for other game functions but everything I need to fly and dogfight is right there on the joystick and base.

One thing I've noticed since I started playing CFS3 again; When I first come into the game, the Joystick Force turns off. The way I get it back on is not to alt tab or control alt delete; instead go to the controller panel and click on the Calibrate button; this brings me to the Controller display Manager. Select the joystick, click on properties and Forces tab. Is isn't necessary to change anything on the Sidewinder Panel just click ok because you'll notice your force has
returned. Close out the Controller Display Manager and your back in game with Joystick Force working. I never need to repeat this procedure unless I restart the game and then I loose the Force once again.

It does the same thing in the CFS3 phase 3 OFF Between Heaven and Hell but usually the computer hard locks if I try to do the Calibrate procedure. Sometimes it does work but I lose the Joystick Force every time the mission repeats, so more often then not I have to shut the computer down. Frustrating and unless I use another joystick I won't be able to play that sims.

I've not used the FFB and shut off the force before but after reading about it mentioned I'll try it.
Thank for posting; lots of useful info!

Jimato