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View Full Version : 100/150 fuels for allied fighters....



tomtheyak
03-11-2006, 08:26 AM
Now I dont mean to start a flame war as to whether or not it was used; as far as I'm concerned its a given fact that that allied fighters were using this from late summer '44 onwards.
Any quibbles on this take it to another thread.

What i want to present here is the idea that from a given in game date ALL allied fighters should have the boosted performance that is inherent with the superior fuel - a global apllication for the game.

Whether this is possible in the engine or not I don't know, but surely it'd be a much better way of solving this particular issue than a series of extra models being hodgepodged into the game?

Whaddya think?

tomtheyak
03-11-2006, 08:26 AM
Now I dont mean to start a flame war as to whether or not it was used; as far as I'm concerned its a given fact that that allied fighters were using this from late summer '44 onwards.
Any quibbles on this take it to another thread.

What i want to present here is the idea that from a given in game date ALL allied fighters should have the boosted performance that is inherent with the superior fuel - a global apllication for the game.

Whether this is possible in the engine or not I don't know, but surely it'd be a much better way of solving this particular issue than a series of extra models being hodgepodged into the game?

Whaddya think?

anarchy52
03-11-2006, 08:58 AM
As far as I'm concerned its a given fact that that luftwaffe was using Me-262 jets from late summer '44 onwards.

What I want to present here is the idea that from a given in game date ALL axis fighters should be jets of boosted performance that is inherent with the superior propulsion system - a global apllication for the game.

It does sound silly, doesn't it?

Targ
03-11-2006, 09:02 AM
Lol, this could be one of those whiz bang threads we all love so much!

VW-IceFire
03-11-2006, 09:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:
Now I dont mean to start a flame war as to whether or not it was used; as far as I'm concerned its a given fact that that allied fighters were using this from late summer '44 onwards.
Any quibbles on this take it to another thread.

What i want to present here is the idea that from a given in game date ALL allied fighters should have the boosted performance that is inherent with the superior fuel - a global apllication for the game.

Whether this is possible in the engine or not I don't know, but surely it'd be a much better way of solving this particular issue than a series of extra models being hodgepodged into the game?

Whaddya think? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most of the major types have already been given higher boosting.

The Mustang Mark III, P-47D Late, P-38L Late, Spitfire +25lb boost. All we're missing is the higher boost Tempest and we're set for Allied late war fighters having the higher boost options.

In Luftwaffe fighters in the 1944/1945 range we already sort of have that with the different versions A-9, D-9 and D-9 with MW50 plus the Bf109G-10 and the two K-4 variants. The Luftwaffe just pilled on a new version number and more powerful engines while the Allied tended to stay with the same engine and add fuel and boost pressure to them.

Anarchy has a point that Me-262 jets were seen with some frequency from September 1944 on to the end of the war.

tomtheyak
03-11-2006, 09:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
As far as I'm concerned its a given fact that that luftwaffe was using Me-262 jets from late summer '44 onwards.

What I want to present here is the idea that from a given in game date ALL axis fighters should be jets of boosted performance that is inherent with the superior propulsion system - a global apllication for the game.

It does sound silly, doesn't it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you can't post something constructive mate, then why bother?

I'm trying to post an idea that might be a solution to a particular problem that olegs team are trying to address with the odd new plane being thrown in.

As Icefire says OKL approached the problem of needing enhanced horsepower by use of uprated engines in some variants. The use of 150 octane by allied units was by the autumn of 1944 across the board - it was supplied to all units.

I'm unsure of whether or not any modification of engines was required - the new fuel enabled lower temp for cumbustion and increased power for a given throttle setting, effectively allowing engines to run cooler at the boost/manifold setting compared to previous fuels.

So the arguement is about fuels not engine types settings.

Anarchy's arguement is as relative to this discussion as it is to pancake recipes.

JtD
03-11-2006, 09:48 AM
I don't think that at any point during the war a majority of Western Allied planes used 150 octane fuel.

I strongly dislike your idea.

The P-38-L late is not modelled with 150 octane fuel afaik, just higher boost levels with standard fuel.

Grey_Mouser67
03-11-2006, 10:10 AM
Maybe it is time for Crazy to intervene and correct Anarchy from trying to hijack the thread and turn it into another smut campaign

HINT HINT

Abbuzze
03-11-2006, 10:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:

I'm unsure of whether or not any modification of engines was required - the new fuel enabled lower temp for cumbustion and increased power for a given throttle setting, effectively allowing engines to run cooler at the boost/manifold setting compared to previous fuels.

So the arguement is about fuels not engine types settings.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To benefit from this high octane fuel, you have to change the engine setup, set a higher boost, use differnt sparkplugs maybe, and maybe also a different ignition timing. Without change at best the engine run without troubles, with bad luck you get problems with the spark plugs because of the increased lead content.

I have no idea how this fuel should lower the temperature in the engine, I believe you mix this up with a water, C3 and MW50 injection. This systems are nothing more than a very effective kind of intercooler and they lowered the temperature and reducing engine stress.

Without change of setup, no increase of power.

Brain32
03-11-2006, 10:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Maybe it is time for Crazy to intervene and correct Anarchy from trying to hijack the thread and turn it into another smut campaign

HINT HINT </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
1. CI's post was related to ORR
2. Anarchy52 stayed on topic
3. It's you(and now me) that are going OT

If I was to be asked Tempest at 11lbs only, other planes are fine.

Zeus-cat
03-11-2006, 10:26 AM
I think one HUGE thing everyone overlooks is that most of the planes fighting in World War II went into battle under battlefield conditions. I mean that they were maintained in the field by varying degrees of skilled mechanics with varying access to new, used, slightly damaged, rebuilt or field built parts. I have read numerous accounts of equipment being sent into battle barely functioning at all.

Whining excessively about your aircraft not being able to fly at X kph or mph at Y thousand feet or meters is a bit laughable most of the time. A better thing to addd would be random performance degradations for planes in a flight. Example, your lead aircraft might perform at factory specs, but my #4 aircraft in the same flight might be 30 kph slower and climb more poorly. That would be realistic in my opinion.

VW-IceFire
03-11-2006, 10:50 AM
From what I've read the 150 octane was not applied evenly throughout the Allied airforces. The ADGB and 8th Air Force units got the 150 octane several months before the 9th AF and 2nd TAF units did.

Its safe to say that by February 1945 most Allied squadrons were using 150 octane fuel with their aircraft.

Some special units had the fuel in the spring of 1945 but the uprated boosts and enhanced fuel supply weren't readily available until early into 1945. Like I said, the Luftwaffe aircraft were countering the Allied fuel situation with things like the injenious MW50 injection. MW50 makes up for the difference when the fuel supply wasn't around to otherwise supply the added boost. Considering the dire situation that the Luftwaffe was in regardng fuel and supplies this was a surprisingly effective method.

fordfan25
03-11-2006, 10:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
As far as I'm concerned its a given fact that that luftwaffe was using Me-262 jets from late summer '44 onwards.

What I want to present here is the idea that from a given in game date ALL axis fighters should be jets of boosted performance that is inherent with the superior propulsion system - a global apllication for the game.

It does sound silly, doesn't it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>throw in some -4 hogs 47 M&N's and u have your self a deal

domenlovrec
03-11-2006, 11:39 AM
Anarchy is right. You are whining about some damn fuel on the other hand Tempest (44) fly with G2 (42). I don't see no Me262 (44) there... I'm just helping Oleg team. Hey I don't even see new K4, while 25lbs...

tomtheyak
03-11-2006, 12:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by domenlovrec:
Anarchy is right. You are whining about some damn fuel on the other hand Tempest (44) fly with G2 (42). I don't see no Me262 (44) there... I'm just helping Oleg team. Hey I don't even see new K4, while 25lbs... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who said anything about whining?

It was a mere suggestion that rather than have these slightly hodge-podged extra models added to the flyables list, just make if possible a global effect that is date dependent - whenevr that date might be.

What I'm thinking is that if I'm on a late '44/early '45 map (online or off) and I want to go in a Spitfire or a mustang I only have the boosted option of Mustang III or the 25lb MkIXc.

What if i want to fly the P-51D, or a clipped wing IXe?

Why not have the global option.

Ok I accept it might not apply to pacific but it was an IDEA. SOMETHING TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE. Aint seen much of THAT in these forums of late.

Hey and if you wanna fight about dates, then take it to another thread - I said at the beginning;

As far as I'm concerned its a given fact that that allied fighters were using this from late summer '44 onwards.
Any quibbles on this take it to another thread.

I wanna see if its possible and whether people will go for it.

tomtheyak
03-11-2006, 12:47 PM
If you have any quibbles with my motivation or evidence then please look here...

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/150grade/150-grade-fuel.html

fordfan25
03-11-2006, 12:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by domenlovrec:
Anarchy is right. You are whining about some damn fuel on the other hand Tempest (44) fly with G2 (42). I don't see no Me262 (44) there... I'm just helping Oleg team. Hey I don't even see new K4, while 25lbs... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who said anything about whining?

It was a mere suggestion that rather than have these slightly hodge-podged extra models added to the flyables list, just make if possible a global effect that is date dependent - whenevr that date might be.

What I'm thinking is that if I'm on a late '44/early '45 map (online or off) and I want to go in a Spitfire or a mustang I only have the boosted option of Mustang III or the 25lb MkIXc.

What if i want to fly the P-51D, or a clipped wing IXe?

Why not have the global option.

Ok I accept it might not apply to pacific but it was an IDEA. SOMETHING TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE. Aint seen much of THAT in these forums of late.

Hey and if you wanna fight about dates, then take it to another thread - I said at the beginning;

As far as I'm concerned its a given fact that that allied fighters were using this from late summer '44 onwards.
Any quibbles on this take it to another thread.

I wanna see if its possible and whether people will go for it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>dude you might as well get used to it. any thread about increasing "red" fighters to anything like thay were IRL and not in this fantasy world is going to be attacked like a fat kid tearing threw an all you can eat baby back rib dinner. untill then just be happy we have FEATURES like wing snaping 51's. glass jawed DW motors,.50cal pellet guns,slow dive rates,and the ever lovely corsair that jumps a foot to the right when you fire the guns. And at least the dev's know propaganda when thay read it. even when its in the form of offical data,charts,files ect. be happy man with what it is. the best sim on the market right now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
03-11-2006, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by domenlovrec:
Anarchy is right. You are whining about some damn fuel on the other hand Tempest (44) fly with G2 (42). I don't see no Me262 (44) there... I'm just helping Oleg team. Hey I don't even see new K4, while 25lbs... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What on earth are you talking about?

The new K-4 is listed as Bf109K-4C3, 1945. Its very fast...very zippy. But its still a K-4 and I prefer the G-10 if I'm going to be 109 flying.

JtD
03-11-2006, 01:26 PM
Just for historical purpose, I don't want all planes to fly on 150 octane from a certain day on.

If you have a problem with that answer, why do you ask?

JG4_Helofly
03-11-2006, 01:34 PM
Boost, Boost, Boost,...

This is the main request. You should fly lock on then you will have boost planes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My impression is that many people whant the best planes for their seide to have a good chance in an open server.
That's why I am happy that Tbob will be the periode of bob without high boosts and such things.
Server with limitation to 1940 or 41, 42 are much more interessting.
Try it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif