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Uber_Panda
08-06-2005, 07:12 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/Furious_Gopher/Pixelblack.jpg

Uber_Panda
08-06-2005, 07:12 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/Furious_Gopher/Pixelblack.jpg

JhonenVasquez
08-06-2005, 07:22 PM
What about it?

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2005, 07:29 PM
Isn't the day WWII ended or something?
-PK

Uber_Panda
08-06-2005, 07:55 PM
So much for a moment of silence thread

But perhaps this will help for you clueless ones

http://www.vw.cc.va.us/vwhansd/HIS122/Images/Hiroshima,%20Japan.gif

Of course, you probably know nothing about.

Go touch up on history how bout

EternalDirt
08-06-2005, 07:56 PM
Something along the lines Hiroshima and Nagasaki guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2005, 08:37 PM
The bombings were necessary to end the war. Without them countless more lives would be lost on all sides.

XyZspineZyX
08-06-2005, 09:05 PM
I don't see how this thread can be considered SPAM.

A silent thread to mark a rememberence day.

War is NEVER neccessary.

kevorjs
08-06-2005, 11:55 PM
He registered 50 years from that date.WoW

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2005, 12:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kevorjs:
He registered 50 years from that date.WoW </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

huh ? who did ?

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2005, 09:27 AM
So I was right.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2005, 05:18 PM
And my we never see the likes of it again.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2005, 05:21 PM
Here here! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

*silent prayer*

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2005, 05:47 PM
(Silently posts some thummarines) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Lest we forget.
-PK

silentassasin05
08-07-2005, 05:49 PM
*bows head in silence*

sam_fisher091
08-07-2005, 10:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by silentassasin05:
*bows head in silence* </div></BLOCKQUOTE>]

*does the same*

nemt
08-08-2005, 02:56 PM
Like it or not, the atomic bomb has saved more lives than any medical innovation in history.

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2005, 03:07 PM
I know.Sad but true.Have a Thummarine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

VTAssault
08-08-2005, 06:35 PM
I was going to write a small bit about Nukes. But i decided not to.



May they RIP

bozibozic
08-08-2005, 07:24 PM
When people say that the US saved mroe lives than if they hadnt done it, i really do beg to differ. Japan was pretty much defeated just that without the bomb the war would have been prolonged cos Bushido says that you dont surrender. The bomb only saved more US lives.

RIP.

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2005, 07:25 PM
And so it did.

md82usa
08-08-2005, 08:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> War is NEVER neccessary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


speak for yourself. I enjoy not speaking German below the rising sun.

nemt
08-08-2005, 09:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> When people say that the US saved mroe lives than if they hadnt done it, i really do beg to differ. Japan was pretty much defeated just that without the bomb the war would have been prolonged cos Bushido says that you dont surrender. The bomb only saved more US lives. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How many Japanese would've been killed in a mainland invasion of Japan with continued firebombings? Millions.

Case closed, you don't know what you're talking about.

As for the comment about war never being necessary - war will always been necessary, because we will always have to fight to defend our freedom and our values.

Uber_Panda
08-08-2005, 10:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nemt:
As for the comment about war never being necessary - war will always been necessary, because we will always have to fight to defend our freedom and our values. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last time I check, war/fight and freedom don't go together well

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2005, 11:22 PM
I guess the ignorance of some clearly shines in their posts.

The act of War is not to fight in one. The Act of war is to START it !!

Was it neccessary for Gemany to "invade" other countries ?..... NO

was it neccessary for the raid on Pearl Harbour ?..... NO

was it neccessary for North Vietnam to invade the south ?.... NO

While it IS neccessary to defend one's freedom... it is NEVER neccessary to try and take aways someone's else (i.e to START a war)...

to Start a war.. is never neccessary... thus WAR is never neccessary.

Try to understand the definition of what I mean by WAR before trying to make a mockery of my comments.

Uber_Panda
08-08-2005, 11:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Plutonium_Kenny:
I know.Sad but true.Have a Thummarine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your "Thumbmarines" are starting to get annoying, First off because they're pointless, and second off because you use them unnecessary/inappropriately. This thread is to give a moments thought to the innocent ones who were killed during the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There is no need for humor in this thread whatsoever. This is a serious thread, and if you can't accept that, then don't post in it

Vmold
08-09-2005, 03:33 AM
What do you wanna do panda?

Go back in time? Save japan?

It's the harsh reality of life itself.

Life is dynamic....anything can happen at any second, the phyiscal and mental attributes that apply to someone are what cause repercussions and problematic issues in the world and there are an almost infinite amount of people on this earth.

So traumatic things are going to happen...and there is nothing you or I can do about without fate on our side.

It is very unfortunate that innocent people died...but I dont think you understand the whole picture enough to even let it fly by you emotionally.

People die everyday....Why dont you make a thought/silence thread about them huh?

What about modern soldiers/civilians nowadays?

There dieing and I dont see you doing anything about it...because you cant, nor can I.

People WILL die...its called life=dynamic=fate

bozibozic
08-09-2005, 06:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nemt:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> When people say that the US saved mroe lives than if they hadnt done it, i really do beg to differ. Japan was pretty much defeated just that without the bomb the war would have been prolonged cos Bushido says that you dont surrender. The bomb only saved more US lives. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How many Japanese would've been killed in a mainland invasion of Japan with continued firebombings? Millions.

Case closed, you don't know what you're talking about.

As for the comment about war never being necessary - war will always been necessary, because we will always have to fight to defend our freedom and our values. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If there is no war in the first palce there is no need to retaliate against anything. And i know that millions died from the US homefront bombings. Have you even seen the extent to which Tokyo was bombed, it looked worse than hiroshima and im not exaggerating. You are just a pro US supporter who gives little thought to what both sides of the story are. I dont think you know what im talking about. You more than likely dont even know what Bushido is?

Also what you said had nothing to do with anything i said. If anything you were supporting me.

Maybe you shouldve stayed on your little forum vacation.

nemt i know you dont like me, but i dont like you either, so stop trying to find problems with my posts because of your grudge!

"kthx"

Uber_Panda
08-09-2005, 12:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vmold:
What do you wanna do panda?

Go back in time? Save japan?

It's the harsh reality of life itself.

Life is dynamic....anything can happen at any second, the phyiscal and mental attributes that apply to someone are what cause repercussions and problematic issues in the world and there are an almost infinite amount of people on this earth.

So traumatic things are going to happen...and there is nothing you or I can do about without fate on our side.

It is very unfortunate that innocent people died...but I dont think you understand the whole picture enough to even let it fly by you emotionally.

People die everyday....Why dont you make a thought/silence thread about them huh?

What about modern soldiers/civilians nowadays?

There dieing and I dont see you doing anything about it...because you cant, nor can I.

People WILL die...its called life=dynamic=fate </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


First off, when did I ever say that I wanted to do something about it? Secondly, this thread was to remember those who were killed from the bombs, as I said before. It wasn't the innocent people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki who were fighting the war.

Where the Hell did you get this idea that I want to start a movement, or stop the world crisis of war? I realize that people die everyday, many innocently, and we can't stop it. Did I once say in many of my posts in this thread that we can stop it?


<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">NO</span>


Yes, people die everyday and we don't give thought to them, but 66,000 people don't die in an instant for unknown reasons, now do they?

Honestly, you registered just so that you could criticise me and put words in my mouth?

Vmold
08-09-2005, 12:48 PM
Still....You act like everybody has ADD and we have to be reminded every once in a while to catch up.

If you want to remember it so bad then go pick up a history book.

I know they died, stop reminding me.

Thats like if one of your family members died and I would rub it in every once in awhile.

Its obvious....they died, it is sad.....what more do you want!!!!!!!!!?????

Omega_224
08-09-2005, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Uber_Panda:
Yes, people die everyday and we don't give thought to them, but 66,000 people don't die in an instant for unknown reasons, now do they? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Actually, they did know what was going to happen. The US dropped flyers telling the people what was going to happen, and warning them to leave. If they didn't want to, that's their own porblem. I have to say, I agree with Vmold.

EternalDirt
08-09-2005, 01:20 PM
And that makes it alright to bomb innocent people, Omega?
I suppose in normal circumstances it would have been ok for anyone to post about Pearl Harbour, Vietnam or WWI&II. I suppose ignorance can be a bliss; "those who don't remember their past are doomed to repeat it." That's all...

And Panda good job on making this thread and reminding us 'lesser' ingnoramuses!

Uber_Panda
08-09-2005, 04:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vmold:
Still....You act like everybody has ADD and we have to be reminded every once in a while to catch up.

If you want to remember it so bad then go pick up a history book.

I know they died, stop reminding me.

Thats like if one of your family members died and I would rub it in every once in awhile.

Its obvious....they died, it is sad.....what more do you want!!!!!!!!!????? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So if you have this negative outlook on the thousands that perished in the bombings, there's no doubt that you don't give a rats *** about all those who died on 9/11.

So, Vmold, did you support the bombs? Do you think that in anyway possible, it was better than if it didn't happen at all?

nemt
08-09-2005, 06:23 PM
Atomic bombs: people died
No atomic bombs: exponentially more people would've died

As I've said before, the atomic bomb has saved more lives than any medical innovation in the history of mankind.

It's also important to note the United States did not start World War 2. It's amazing how many members here are nazi sympathizers engulfed in revisionist history and negationism.

JhonenVasquez
08-09-2005, 06:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sangsta:
Was it neccessary for Gemany to "invade" other countries ?..... NO

was it neccessary for the raid on Pearl Harbour ?..... NO

was it neccessary for North Vietnam to invade the south ?.... NO

While it IS neccessary to defend one's freedom... it is NEVER neccessary to try and take aways someone's else (i.e to START a war)...

to Start a war.. is never neccessary... thus WAR is never neccessary.

Try to understand the definition of what I mean by WAR before trying to make a mockery of my comments. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>So if the people who did that stuff controlled themselves, wouldn't we have to do those seventies stuff, like "love not war" and "it's wrong to eat meat?"

bozibozic
08-09-2005, 07:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nemt:
Atomic bombs: people died
No atomic bombs: exponentially more people would've died

As I've said before, the atomic bomb has saved more lives than any medical innovation in the history of mankind.

It's also important to note the United States did not start World War 2. It's amazing how many members here are nazi sympathizers engulfed in revisionist history and negationism. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im not just saying this to start a war with you. But the greatest medical invention was the influenza vaccine. In the first year after WW1 23 MILLION PEOPLE DIED from influenza. How do you explain that? The atomic bomb was better than the flu vaccine? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

sam_fisher091
08-09-2005, 11:31 PM
Here's my input:

To take one life is a horrible, unspeakable thing to do. It is ALMOST never neccessary.

At the end of WWII, 45 million people had been killed. A huge portion of them had been innocents, and some even soldiers who were forced into war by their leaders. This was NOT neccessary in the slightest.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2005, 11:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Uber_Panda:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Plutonium_Kenny:
I know.Sad but true.Have a Thummarine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your "Thumbmarines" are starting to get annoying, First off because they're pointless, and second off because you use them unnecessary/inappropriately. This thread is to give a moments thought to the innocent ones who were killed during the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There is no need for humor in this thread whatsoever. This is a serious thread, and if you can't accept that, then don't post in it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Let me tell you a little story.

Once a long time ago there was a 10 year old child named Kenny.He overdosed on Crystal Meth and woke up 3 hours later in a tool shed with a needle in his arm,blood on his shirt,and a shoebox with a meth lab in it.Well Kenny knew then he had a problem,so he told his mom he had a problem and wanted to end it.His mom promptly called a rehab group for meth addicts.The program was called Teens Halting Unnecessary Meth addiction.Their motto was

Tell
Help
Unseat
Meth.

Well after going on the program little Kenny was plauged with cravings and so any time he had a craving he would write on a sheet of paper

Thummarines will protect you from your addiction.

Because he wanted to become an Officer in the Marine Corps. He then discovered that because he took the program he could not join.Meth cravings continued until he broke down and bought some meth.He woke up in a hospital.He later continued his cravings and so,when he had a craving,he would write on whatever he could find,

Thummarines will protect you from your addiction.

4 years later he still writes that whenever he gets a craving.

So as you see,Panda,anytime I get a craving to shoot up some Meth,I post a thummarine just to remind me why I got this computer in the first place,because I was off meth without going back for 2 years and got it as a gift.I really don't remember what I was going to say before I got a craving right before posting.I believe I was going to post:

:Silently posts a moment of silence:

And then I was going to post:

Sad but true,may they all rest in peace.

I'm not trying to flame you or spam this thread,but when ever I post a thummarine,I have no paper to write it on.Just remember that I have been off meth for almost 3 and a 1/2 years.And meth is one of the most addictive drugs out there,so don't try it.Please!! This is coming from a real recovering addict.

Uber_Panda
08-10-2005, 02:01 PM
You assume just as much as I do

I have lost someone I deeply cared about, and it was at an early age. I lost my father when a vein in his head burst. I was only 15

This thread is not about bringing up an issue. I just tried to make a thread for a moment of silence for the catastrophic event of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. People like you, however, can't even accept that and give respect to casualties of war, and instead make "moments of loud, obnoxious arguments".

Do us all a favor and leave this thread be. I'm sure no one really wants to see you the next time a moment of silence thread occurs, IE 9/11 and so on.



EDIT: My above post was not directed at Kenny, but was directed at Vmold for his rude and unnecessary comments. Seems like it was removed however (Thank goodness: We don't need to see that again)

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2005, 02:07 PM
I wish he didn't,actually.Then I wouldn't have had to delete my post.

TarTarz
08-13-2005, 09:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nemt:
As I've said before, the atomic bomb has saved more lives than any medical innovation in the history of mankind.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I agree with you that more people would of died, had the U.S. not dropped the bombs, your analogy doesn't make a bit of sense.

Lets say, 3 powerful doctors forcefully submit 60,000 people to experiments against their will. The 60,000 people die, but the doctors come up with a medical breakthrough, and save 100,000 people.

Many of the jews caught & imprisoned in nazi labor camps were forced to undergo experiments, by which many thousand died. If german doctors had found a cure which would save more people then those that died in the experiments, would it be viewed as good or bad?
Or would that be viewed as bad, because Germans are bad, and what the U.S. did, good because Americans are good?

Lives were saved, you might say, but its actually like 60,000 civilians died so that ???,000 soldiers, and other civilians might live.

oh yeah, kudos to panda for making a *silent moment* thread so we can all squabble. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

bozibozic
08-14-2005, 12:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TarTarz:


Many of the jews caught & imprisoned in nazi labor camps were forced to undergo experiments, by which many thousand died. If german doctors had found a cure which would save more people then those that died in the experiments, would it be viewed as good or bad?
Or would that be viewed as bad, because Germans are bad, and what the U.S. did, good because Americans are good?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dude the nazis werent trying to find cures to anything. They were doing eugenics experiments. They were trying to find out what biological elements of Jewish people are different from hitlers "Aryans". They were trying to create a dominant race. There was never any intention to help anyone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

TarTarz
08-14-2005, 05:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bozibozic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TarTarz:


Many of the jews caught & imprisoned in nazi labor camps were forced to undergo experiments, by which many thousand died. If german doctors had found a cure which would save more people then those that died in the experiments, would it be viewed as good or bad?
Or would that be viewed as bad, because Germans are bad, and what the U.S. did, good because Americans are good?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dude the nazis werent trying to find cures to anything. They were doing eugenics experiments. They were trying to find out what biological elements of Jewish people are different from hitlers "Aryans". They were trying to create a dominant race. There was never any intention to help anyone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My question still stands. How would it be viewed if they HAD found a cure\medical breakthrough.

sam_fisher091
08-14-2005, 05:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TarTarz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bozibozic:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TarTarz:


Many of the jews caught & imprisoned in nazi labor camps were forced to undergo experiments, by which many thousand died. If german doctors had found a cure which would save more people then those that died in the experiments, would it be viewed as good or bad?
Or would that be viewed as bad, because Germans are bad, and what the U.S. did, good because Americans are good?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dude the nazis werent trying to find cures to anything. They were doing eugenics experiments. They were trying to find out what biological elements of Jewish people are different from hitlers "Aryans". They were trying to create a dominant race. There was never any intention to help anyone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My question still stands. How would it be viewed if they HAD found a cure\medical breakthrough. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Find a cure for what TarTarz? The Nazis were not trying to find a medical "breakthrough". They were trying to destroy an entire group of people. They didn't care about people's lives. Hitler and the Nazis thought, wrongly, that Jewish people were the cause of Germany losing WWI, and the country's economy collapse in the 1920's.

Simply put, you know NOTHING about history.

TarTarz
08-14-2005, 06:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Find a cure for what TarTarz? The Nazis were not trying to find a medical "breakthrough".


Simply put, you know NOTHING about history.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK Mr. Smarty. Bring it.

The freezing / hypothermia experiments were conducted for the Nazi high command. The experiments were conducted on men to simulate the conditions the armies suffered on the Eastern Front. The German forces were ill prepared for the bitter cold. Thousands of German soldiers died of freezing or were debilitated by cold injuries.

After the camps were started, vast genetic experiments were undertaken. The range of the testing was broad and specialized. The two major groups of experiments were first to refine the master race and second to determine the cause of defects.

The Germans were incredibly cruel in their experiments. Jaw-dropping cruel. On the other hand, rather be incinerated by a atomic bomb, or cut up in experiments?

The U.S. dropped atomic bombs on thousands of innocent people. The Germans tortured + killed thousands of innocent people.

My question IS: HAD the Germans come up with a medical breakthrough through their experiments. How would it be viewed?

Is killing someone in order to save someone else, something morally right? something acceptable?

sam_fisher091
08-14-2005, 06:36 PM
Your question at the bottom contradicts itself. Either way, someone dies. But listen. Do you want to know the reason I am so pissed here? Do you REALLY want to hear it?



I'M JEWISH!

There! So, I would rather see a Nazi freeze to death than have my people suffer and die like that. OK?

Now look what you did. I'm crying http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

TarTarz
08-14-2005, 07:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sam_fisher091:
Your question at the bottom contradicts itself. Either way, someone dies. But listen. Do you want to know the reason I am so pissed here? Do you REALLY want to hear it?



I'M JEWISH!

There! So, I would rather see a Nazi freeze to death than have my people suffer and die like that. OK?

Now look what you did. I'm crying http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly how does the bottom question contradict itself? As you stated, the point IS someone dies.

And, dude, you missed the whole freaking point. My point was: killing someone so that other person(s) live is not right. I was asking if what the US did by dropping the atomic bomb is comparable to what the Germans did by experimenting.

In my mind, both are horrible, and neither is right.

sam_fisher091
08-14-2005, 07:25 PM
That makes sense. Truce?

TarTarz
08-14-2005, 08:29 PM
truce http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
whoa, now that I reread the whole thread, we got waaayyy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif lol

sam_fisher091
08-15-2005, 11:29 AM
Yeah, I guess so. Back to the original topic, the US did not need to bomb Japan. Japan was already on the brink of surrender. Their troops were demoralized, their weapons and supplies so bad that they would have failed in WWI, never mind WWII.

Then again, Japan did not need to bomb Pearl Harbour. Germany also didn't need to conquer almost all of Europe.

Anyway, here's something I dug up from my book collection:

STAUFFENBERG'S SECRET GERMANY

For those who didn't read it, Stauffenberg was Chief in Staff of the Home Army. In 1943, while operating in Tunisia, he was badly wounded. He lost his left eye, right hand and two fingers from his left hand. His legs and hearing were also severely damaged.

When he came out of hospital, he desired to assassinate Hitler. He recruited more than seven thousand officers, and he named the conspiracy, Secret Germany.

In 1944, with Germany clearly losing the war, Hitler decided to fight his final battles in the "Wolf's Lair" Stauffenberg decided to kill Hitler with a bomb in a briefcase. When he entered the meeting, he stood next to Hitler and hid the bomb on one side of a wooden support.

Howver, a few seconds from detonation and Stauffenberg out of the meeting room, an officer named Colonel Brandt, wanting to get a closer look at the map, caught on the briefcase and moved the briefcase to the other side of the support. It detonated seconds later. Hitler had lived, but had Stauffenberg succeeded, the war might've ended almost a year later. How would the Nazis be defeated? Simple, something called Operation Valkyrie.

Operation Valkyrie was a plan developed by the Nazis to protect them from a rebellion in Germany. If a rebel group began to fight, Nazi soldiers would lock up rail stations and important important radio center's preventing the rebellion from spreading. Rather than protect the Nazi's, Stauffenberg would use it to overthrow them. He would announce to all the German soldiers that Hitler was dead, and Nazi officals were trying to sieze power for themselves. They would be ordered to arrest all Nazi officals, from Paris to Prauge.

Stauffenberg, General Olbritch, and their two assistants were sentenced to death by General Fromm, Commander in Chief of the armed forces. He had not joined the conspiracy, but knew all about it.

Though Stauffenberg failed- magnificentley, had he succeeded, the war might've ended a year earlier. Read through this, and give me your input.

TarTarz
08-15-2005, 09:12 PM
definantly interesting. I didn't know most of that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

pdogsniper
08-15-2005, 09:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sam_fisher091:
Yeah, I guess so. Back to the original topic, the US did not need to bomb Japan. Japan was already on the brink of surrender. Their troops were demoralized, their weapons and supplies so bad that they would have failed in WWI, never mind WWII.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The two things that brought about the Japanese surrender were
#1- The Atomic Bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
#2- The Russian's declaring war on Japan after Hiroshima.

Before we dropped those bombs, extremist Japanese generals (those left) wanted to keep fighting the American on their homeland. This would've brought close to another million U.S. casualties. Also, the japanese were planning on detonating a dirty bomb with Uranium Oxide in Los Angeles and San Francisco, causing the same Nuclear fallout that happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
My grandpa was a marine on Iwo Jima, Tinian, and Saipan. If the war wouldn've been over, he could've been one of the (estimated) million casualties that would ensue with a japanese invasion, and thus, no me.

I'm all for a quick war, and a quicker ending with fewer American casualties.

sam_fisher091
08-16-2005, 11:20 PM
Okay. Fair enough. But, what does the Russian declaring war on Japan after Hiroshima? There's no reference to it.

But, had Stauffenberg succeeded, there would have been no Hiroshima and Nagaski.

bozibozic
08-17-2005, 01:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sam_fisher091:
what does the Russian declaring war on Japan after Hiroshima? There's no reference to it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Japan was only in the war because theyw anted to create an "asia for the asians", what they called "the greatre east asia co prosperity sphere" (its ironic how the called it the "co prosperity") and when the russians stopped them from taking over Machuria (a province of china) and the US had defeated them in the pacific there was no war left that japan could fight. Thus the end of the war.