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View Full Version : Often overlooked, Rarely discussed..The German super bird Do-335!



Freiwillige
11-08-2008, 05:05 AM
Have any of you realised this thing is a heavy fighter? Flown similiar to american warbirds this beauty can really dominate.
Just to get an idea how large this thing is I found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CReTXZwIsEw

Also Pierre Closterman was the first to attempt to engage one in combat, Flying with a wingman
in a tempest he spotted a single DO-335 and simply could not catch it! I recomend you give this bird a try its a BnZ's dream and its also deadly at bomber intercept.

Freiwillige
11-08-2008, 05:05 AM
Have any of you realised this thing is a heavy fighter? Flown similiar to american warbirds this beauty can really dominate.
Just to get an idea how large this thing is I found this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CReTXZwIsEw

Also Pierre Closterman was the first to attempt to engage one in combat, Flying with a wingman
in a tempest he spotted a single DO-335 and simply could not catch it! I recomend you give this bird a try its a BnZ's dream and its also deadly at bomber intercept.

Uncle_Stranger
11-08-2008, 05:58 AM
It was a real aircraft which flew? :/
Didn't know that.

Are there any German documents about how it did it combat?

FlatSpinMan
11-08-2008, 05:59 AM
That's colossal, isn't it?! Interesting footage. Such a radical design for the time.

Xiolablu3
11-08-2008, 07:57 AM
I dont think it ever flew in combat, however Pierre CLostermann writes wbout spotting one in his Tempest in early 1945 over Germany.

Its an awesome fighter bomber on online servers like UKdedicated 1945 maps, as it carries a 1000kg bomb internally IIRC so you can drop that and then use it as a fighter afterwards.

WOLFMondo
11-08-2008, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Uncle_Stranger:
It was a real aircraft which flew? :/
Didn't know that.

Are there any German documents about how it did it combat? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Combat was limited but it certainly flew and not without some serious faults. In British trials with it, they decided it wasn't agile enough to be a day fighter but was a superb all weather night fighter.

p1ngu666
11-08-2008, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Uncle_Stranger:
It was a real aircraft which flew? :/
Didn't know that.

Are there any German documents about how it did it combat? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it flew, mostly test versions iirec

and its combat career was soley running away iirec

is a fun plane to fly, nice sense of hauling *** http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

FliegerAas
11-08-2008, 09:09 AM
Watching that video I realise how BIG that thing was. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

KG26_Alpha
11-08-2008, 09:51 AM
III/KG2 from 4/7/44 to 1/12/44 were flying them.

III/KG2 become V/NJG2 12/44 flying Ju88G6


Model Code Werk Nr. Notes
Do335V-1 CP+UA 230001 1st prototype. DB603A-1 engines. FF 28.10.43
Do335V-2 CP+UB 230002 to Rechlin, rear engine caught fire, w/o 15.04.44
Do335V-3 CP+UC/T9+ZH 230003 A-4 prototype, to Ob.d.L.
Do335V-4 CP+UD 230004 Do435 prototype, not completed
Do335V-5 CP+UE 230005 1st with armament fitted, A-2 engines
Do335V-6 CP+UF 230006 Dornier development a/c, hit by bomb
Do335V-7 CP+UG 230007 Junkers Jumo 213A & E testbed, Dessau
Do335V-8 CP+UH 230008 Daimler-Benz DB603E-1 testbed, Stuttgart
Do335V-9 CP+UI/V9 230009 A-0 prototype, to Rechlin May 1944
Do335V-10 CP+UK 230010 A-6 prototype night fighter with SN-2 radar
Do335V-11 CP+UL/11 230011 A-10 prototype trainer
Do335V-12 CP+UM 230012 A-12 prototype trainer
Do335V-13 RP+UA/13 230013 B-1 prototype, to France for tests
Do335V-14 RP+UB/14 230014 B-2 prototype, destroyed

Table II: Do335A-0 preproduction batch (10 aircraft built at
Oberpfaffenhofen July-October 1944. One example converted to A-4 standard.

Model Code Werk Nr. Notes
Do335A-0 VG+PG/101 240101 DB603A-2 engines, at Rechlin July 1944
Do335A-0 VG+PH/102 240102 sole survivor, to USAAF as FE 1012, now at NASM
Do335A-0 VG+PI/103 240103 to Ob.d.L. late July 1944
Do335A-0 VG+IJ/104 240104 to Erkdo 335 Sept 1944
Do335A-0 VG+IK/105 240105 to Erkdo 335 captured by US at Lechfeld April 1945
Do335A-0 VG+PL/106 240106 to Erkdo 335
Do335A-0 VG+PM/107 240107 to Erkdo 335
Do335A-0 VG+PN/108 240108 to Erkdo 335
Do335A-0 VG+PO/109 240109 to Erkdo 335
Do335A-0 VG+PP/110 240110 to Erkdo 335 October 1944

Table III: Do335A-1 production batch (11 aircraft built at Oberpfaffenhofen,
plus 9 aircraft partially assembled, November – April 1945).

Model Code Werk Nr. Notes
Do335A-1 113 240113 Captured by US
Do335A-1 "” 240161 Captured by US
Do335A-1 "” 240162 Captured by US
Do335A-1 "” 240163 Captured by US
Do335A-1 "” 240164 Captured by US
Do335A-1 "” 240165 Captured by US
Do335A-1 "” 240166 Captured by US
Do335A-1 "” 240167 Captured by US
Do335A-1 "” 240168 Captured by US
Do335A-1 "” 240169 Captured by US
Do335A-1 "” 240170 Captured by US
Do335A-1 01 240301 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-1 02 240302 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-1 03 240303 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-1 04 240304 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-1 05 240305 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-1 06 240306 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-1 07 240307 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-1 08 240308 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-1 09 240309 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-2 "” "” Project only
Do335A-3 "” "” Project only

Table IV: Do335A-4 (10 aircraft scheduled January – February 1945;
only four partially assembled at Oberpfaffenhofen).

Model Code Werk Nr. Notes
Do335A-4 10 240310 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-4 11 240311 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-4 12 240312 Partly assembled; captured by US
Do335A-4 13 240313 Partly assembled; captured by US

Do335A-6: none assembled, Heinkel Vienna factory bombed out.

Table V: Do335A-10 (aircraft built at Oberpfaffenhofen).

Model Code Werk Nr. Notes
Do335A-10 111 240111 Flew late Nov 1944; captured by US at Oberpf.
Do335A-10 "” 240114 Not completed

Table VI: Do335A-12 (two aircraft built at Oberpfaffenhofen,
plus 2 aircraft partially assembled).

Model Code Werk Nr. Notes
Do335A-12 112 240112 Air Ministry 225, to RAE, w/o 18 Jan 1946
Do335A-12 121 240121 to England, w/o 13 Dec 1945
Do335A-12 122 240122 Not completed, scrapped by US
Do335A-12 "” "” Partly assembled

Table VII: Do335B series prototypes. (six aircraft partially
assembled at Oberpfaffenhofen).

Model Code Werk Nr. Notes
Do335B-2 RP+UB 14/18 240118 B-2 replacement proto, to France with CEV until 4.6.48
Do335V-15 RP+UC 15/19 240119 B-1 2nd prototype to Lwe February 1945
Do335V-16 RP+UD 16/20 240120 B-2 2nd prototype night fighter with FuG 218
Do335V-17 RP+UE 17/16 240116 B-6 prototype to France Autumn 1945
Do335V-18 RP+UF 18/17 240117 B-6 2nd prototype night fighter to Lwe February 1945
Do335V-19 RP+UG 19/15 240115 B-3 prototype; not completed
Do335V-20 "” "” B-7 prototype; not completed
Do335V-21 "” "” B-8 prototype; not completed
Do335V-22 "” "” B-8 2nd prototype; not completed

Not a figment of the imagination over Germany http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jaws2002
11-08-2008, 10:09 AM
If planes would carry a wallet, on Pfeil's wallet would be written "Bad MF" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/DSCN0230.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/DSCN0231.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/DSCN0224.jpg

Choctaw111
11-08-2008, 01:45 PM
I love this plane. I had a fascination with it since I was a boy.
I was thrilled when it was released as an addon for SWOTL http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
In Il2 this plane does very well, has good armament, and handles like a sportscar on the ground...not so much in the air, but is very fast without the agility. Great BnZ'er

stalkervision
11-08-2008, 02:30 PM
The Do-335 "The Shogun of Germany"

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/1114905278_l.jpg

rip Sho-Nuff.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Buzzsaw-
11-08-2008, 03:49 PM
Salute

If the war had continued, this plane would have become a target in the daylight, similar to the Me-110 in early war.

Only reason it does ok now, is because late model allied aircraft are not available.

American piston fighters such as P-51H, or P-47M were faster, and more maneuverable. Meteor Jet was faster and more maneuverable.

Its only real future would have been as nightfighter.

Much better for the Germans to have spent development money on more Jets.

Another example of 3rd Reich wasting its money on too many different projects.

Try flying the Do-335 on a server with unlimited Mustang Mk III's and you get the idea. And the game's Mustang III is slower than a P-51H or P-47M.

VW-IceFire
11-08-2008, 04:47 PM
Its a Destroyer...it would be best used against bombers or as a attack fighter. With appropriate fighter cover sweeping in ahead of it...its fast enough to be able to evade pursuing fighters. Internal bomb bay and everything.

I don't really see it as being able to mix it up with fighters. Its too big, its turn is much too slow, and its too heavy to recover from a quick maneuver.

In fighter versus fighter I would have been eaten alive but as an attack aircraft it'd be quite good.

b2spirita
11-08-2008, 04:58 PM
I agree with icefire, as a ground attack aircraft it does great - big internal bay, lots of firepower, twin engines without torqe issues. Seems pretty tough too.

PanzerAce2.0
11-09-2008, 02:59 AM
I actually find that it does quite well in almost any usage. As long as you don't let your speed get to low, it dominates. And if you just can't shake someone on your tail, you can always just firewall the throttle, and let the twin engines get you away.

Bremspropeller
11-09-2008, 05:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Salute

If the war had continued, this plane would have become a target in the daylight, similar to the Me-110 in early war.

Only reason it does ok now, is because late model allied aircraft are not available.

American piston fighters such as P-51H, or P-47M were faster, and more maneuverable. Meteor Jet was faster and more maneuverable.

Its only real future would have been as nightfighter.

Much better for the Germans to have spent development money on more Jets.

Another example of 3rd Reich wasting its money on too many different projects.

Try flying the Do-335 on a server with unlimited Mustang Mk III's and you get the idea. And the game's Mustang III is slower than a P-51H or P-47M. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Want fighter-cover?
Chose one.

http://www.herbert-thiess.de/Laber/LeistungssteigerungMe262/Me262Flug-X0770.png
http://www.world-war-2-planes.com/images/He_162_flying.jpg
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Bilder/HoIX/HoIX-1.jpg

Vipez-
11-09-2008, 07:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
Salute

If the war had continued, this plane would have become a target in the daylight, similar to the Me-110 in early war.

Only reason it does ok now, is because late model allied aircraft are not available.

American piston fighters such as P-51H, or P-47M were faster, and more maneuverable. Meteor Jet was faster and more maneuverable.

Its only real future would have been as nightfighter.

Much better for the Germans to have spent development money on more Jets.

Another example of 3rd Reich wasting its money on too many different projects.

Try flying the Do-335 on a server with unlimited Mustang Mk III's and you get the idea. And the game's Mustang III is slower than a P-51H or P-47M. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't quite see what Me-110 and Do-335 have in common (apart from both beeing designed as twin engines and Zerstöer designations). In different circumstances (equal numbers and pilot training) I'm quite sure DO-335 could have hold its own against late war P51s and P47s. Fortunalety for the allies it did not happen. There were not enought of them nor pilots to fly them properly.

Besides ME-110 was not that bad fighter in 1939, 1940 and 1941. What killed it was mostly poor tactics. It's roll rate was slightly weaker than contemporary single engine fighters, but it still had the speed advantage over most early war fighters (Hurricane, Polish fighters, early russian fighters etc.)..

Boandlgramer
11-09-2008, 08:25 AM
Just a few words Hauptmann Meyer from Erprobungskommando 335.

Using as Dayfighter.Sorry its in German :
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">Das Flugzeug D 335 würde als Zerstöer in einem Frontabschnitt ohne starke feindliche Jagdabwehr erfolgversprechend eingesetzt werden können.

Die Verwendung als Jagdeinsitzer im Tageseinsatz entspräche den Einsatzverhältnissen der Zerstöerverbände in der Reichsverteidigungim Jahre 1943/44 mit der Me 410.
Trotz Gewinn höherer Geschwindigkeiten und starker Bewaffnung der Do 335 wird der Einsatz als schwerer Jäger nur dann den gewünschten Erfolg bringen, wenn absolute eigene Jagdüberlegenheit gewährleistet ist.
Schlechte Wendigkeit und Trägheit des Flugzeuges, sowie denkbar schlechteste Sichtverhältnisse nach hinten lassen die Do 335 in jedem Jägerkampf unbedingt unterlegen sein.


So that means hardly "hold its own against the P51 /P 47".</pre>

Bremspropeller
11-09-2008, 09:04 AM
The 335 could still dive away if engaged by fighters - a tactic that didn't work with 110s and 410s.

Bo_Nidle
11-09-2008, 12:40 PM
Love the "Arrow", VERY cool looking kite.

Where is the museum in the pictures by Jaws2002? Looks very impressive.

mortoma
11-09-2008, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
The 335 could still dive away if engaged by fighters - a tactic that didn't work with 110s and 410s. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Probably would not even need to do much of a dive. Even level it could pull away with it's speed. Of course it would be smart to go into at least a shallow dive to speed up accel.

AWL_Spinner
11-09-2008, 01:23 PM
It's amazing in those museum pics just how much larger it is than the Arado jet next to it.

Vipez-
11-09-2008, 02:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Boandlgramer:
Just a few words Hauptmann Meyer from Erprobungskommando 335.

Using as Dayfighter.Sorry its in German :
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">Das Flugzeug D 335 würde als Zerstöer in einem Frontabschnitt ohne starke feindliche Jagdabwehr erfolgversprechend eingesetzt werden können.

Die Verwendung als Jagdeinsitzer im Tageseinsatz entspräche den Einsatzverhältnissen der Zerstöerverbände in der Reichsverteidigungim Jahre 1943/44 mit der Me 410.
Trotz Gewinn höherer Geschwindigkeiten und starker Bewaffnung der Do 335 wird der Einsatz als schwerer Jäger nur dann den gewünschten Erfolg bringen, wenn absolute eigene Jagdüberlegenheit gewährleistet ist.
Schlechte Wendigkeit und Trägheit des Flugzeuges, sowie denkbar schlechteste Sichtverhältnisse nach hinten lassen die Do 335 in jedem Jägerkampf unbedingt unterlegen sein.


So that means hardly "hold its own against the P51 /P 47".</pre> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bad agility? Never heard of that.

Looking at the technical specs (topspeed ~770 kmh, exceptional roll rate, decent power loading for a twin) would suggest it to behave much like FW-190 in combat. You can't shoot what you can't catch. And I have read test pilots testemonies it having excelent acceleration and turn radius. Of course late war P47s/P51s would probably own it in traditional turn fighting at slow speeds. I guess there are no comparative trials between these birds, so we will never know. The real weakness of DO-335 would probably be it's low numbers, poor rear view and no qualified pilots to fly them.. None of this matters anyway, as Germany had already lost the war at this phase.

JSG72
11-09-2008, 02:38 PM
The Do 335 was conceived as the natural replacement for the Me110/210/410. So was never intended as flying in a Fighter v Fighter scenario.

BTW. There was continuous development plans for the Do 335.(Just like the "Mustang and Thunderbolt") And this did include Jet engines!
With either a mixture of both Prop and Jet or 2 Jets. Do P254/1-03 and DoP256. As well as Twin fuselage versions for Maritime Strike/Reconnaisance, Do335Z or eventually the lenghthened Junkers Ju 635.

TheCrux
11-09-2008, 02:51 PM
I've only flown it so far in offline Single Missions, but decided to give it a shot against a Tempest in QMB; 5K meters, equal, both of us 50 pct fuel:

Yeah it's fast fast fast...but not so fast that you can be careless with your energy management around a late ware allied fighter. What irked me was this: On paper ( Hardball's A/C guide /IL-2 Compare ) it's a lackluster turner, if not bad ( 26's ) but I figured the lack of gyro induced torque would be of assistance. Every time I attempted to reverse after the initial high speed merge/pass and high yo-yo / wing-over, I'd stall and spin...no matter what direction try. Alright, this thing's not a Ki-84 or '109. So I'd make my maneuvers more gentle...which gave the Tempest plenty of time to turn around...and here we are from square one. Eventually I'd work my way to a firing solution from an energy advantage...only to lack the ability to correct for even the most conservative of evasive maneuvers. Rinse and repeat. I quit after 20 minutes of tiring of this stalemate. Though I had the ability to run or stay...and live.

This thing sucks fighter vs fighter. Yeah, bomber interceptor or night fighter.

Aaron_GT
11-09-2008, 02:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The real weakness of DO-335 would probably be it's low numbers, poor rear view </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There were plans for a teardrop canopy.

Aaron_GT
11-09-2008, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This thing sucks fighter vs fighter. Yeah, bomber interceptor or night fighter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tried a mission today with 4v4 Do-335 v P51D25s and downed two. The first was on merge, though, and the second was a lucky shot at 500m. I couldn't catch the last pair and fired off all my 13mm rounds in the vain hope of clipping one and slowing it down!

M_Gunz
11-09-2008, 03:05 PM
That plane should really excel in the vertical with 2 IIRC counter-rotating props and engines.

How does the size compare to the P-47 which is like some kind of Sumo Class big?
Who is bigger, Sylvester or Arnie? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif okay, there's no connection, just askin!

redhornet07
11-09-2008, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
Love the "Arrow", VERY cool looking kite.

Where is the museum in the pictures by Jaws2002? Looks very impressive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the museum is the Smithsonian in Washington DC.

Ba5tard5word
11-09-2008, 04:40 PM
It must be the Udvar-Hazy museum, which is an annex of the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, located at Dulles airport...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_F._Udvar-Hazy_Center


man I need to go there once in my life...an Arado next to a Do-335 next to a flying wing glider...man.

When I was a kid my family went to DC for a week and I dragged my folks to the Air and Space museum like 3 times in a row, heh. Great place, I can't imagine how cool the Udvar-Hazy is.

CUJO_1970
11-09-2008, 08:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
I couldn't catch the last pair and fired off all my 13mm rounds in the vain hope of clipping one and slowing it down! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Let me guess....the AI outclimbed and outran you all the while applying full right rudder? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The AI can be so disappointing in this sim.

wayno7777
11-09-2008, 08:27 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
It must be the Udvar-Hazy museum, which is an annex of the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, located at Dulles airport...



man I need to go there once in my life...an Arado next to a Do-335 next to a flying wing glider...man.

QUOTE]

And the He 219 without wings behind it....

WOLFMondo
11-10-2008, 04:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vipez-:


Bad agility? Never heard of that.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

British tests decided it was not agile enough to be effective against day fighters. But it never was intended as a fighter but as a destroyer and all weather night fighter.

WOLFMondo
11-10-2008, 04:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:

American piston fighters such as P-51H, or P-47M were faster, and more maneuverable. Meteor Jet was faster and more maneuverable.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There were about as many servicable M's in existance as there were servicable Do335's:P. N's on the otherhand...

Xiolablu3
11-10-2008, 12:54 PM
IMHO It would have been an excellent Mosquito type aircraft in 1944/45 had they not had the disruption from the Allied bombing.

If it could outpace a Tempest in 1945 then it was certainly of some use for that fact alone. Admittedly Clostermann was flying a bog standard service aircrat and the Do335 was likely a perfect pristine protoype, however I think we are being a little harsh on the aircraft.

True it would be going up against 550mph+ De Havilland Vampires, Meteors and P80's if the war had contrinued through 1945, however it would have plenty of heavy bomber targets and the Allies were still flying plenty (mostly I think?) piston powered aircraft through 1945.

The De Havilland Hornet is cellebrated as a masterpiece of high speed prop flight, so we should certainly celebrate the DO335 too. A fast twin engine beast capable of carrying heavy cannon and large bomb loads yet at still very high speeds.

Kurfurst__
11-10-2008, 01:13 PM
There's a nice informative page about the Do 335's projected performance with various development engines, such as the two staged DB 603LA. It also contains a graph on the last page showing some figures actually obtained at Dornier Werke, at some LW test unit and at the Rechlin LW test center, with DB 603A, AS, and E type engines,. The author of the article assumes the graphs refer to the 30-min rating.

Its in German, so using an online translator might be a good idea. Be sure to hit the "Nächtes" link for the next pages.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/luftwaffe1/do335/do335_1.html

Aaron_GT
11-10-2008, 02:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Let me guess....the AI outclimbed and outran you all the while applying full right rudder? Smile </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all like that. It was left rudder!

Aaron_GT
11-10-2008, 02:35 PM
The weak link of the Do-335 does seem to be the engines - 1750hp is a bit on the low side when you have Merlins doing over 2000hp and Griffons, Sabres, Centauruses doing 2299-2400hp+ in 1944 at approved boosts, not to mention R2800s.

Something with two engines in the 2200hp range, radar, and a navigator and you'd have an excellent all-weather strike plane. I'd be wary of low level night use, though, as the forward view isn't great. I think the Hornet NF.21 would be better in this regard, although only with external ordnance.

Kurfurst__
11-10-2008, 02:51 PM
1750 PS provided by the DB 603A may be true for the powerplant fitted to the early prototypes, however for the production versions far more capable versions of the DB 603 range were meant, ie. DB 603E-2 (2000PS/SL, 1740/6.4km).

I would hardly call the DB 603LA (2100 PS/SL, 1760/9 km ie. ~30k feet), or its improved form DB 603N feeble powerplants... the latter as a matter of fact would have been the most impressive piece of high altitude piston engines - the DB 603N being rated at 2750 PS at SL and 1950 PS at 11 000 meter (36 000 feet!). That's plenty of juice to go around, esp. if you have two of them.

Aaron_GT
11-10-2008, 05:00 PM
Do you have references for the more powerful engines actually fitted? The DB603LA may have been allocated for the B series but the B series wasn't built, and the highest PS of anything accorded production status would seem to be with the 603E and 1800PS. Even 2100PS of a DB603LA is still a long way short of a Griffon 85, though. 2000-2100 PS is probably pretty good given the poor fuel quality, though, so maybe that's the deciding factor rather than anything else.

Or you have the much lighter Hornet with 2 2070 hp engines - far better power:weight.

Now if the Jumo 222 had been put into production they would have really been onto something with the Do 435.

But even so, the performance of the 335 was exceptional with MW50, although getting to be pedestrian for 1945 without it.

Kurfurst__
11-13-2008, 01:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Do you have references for the more powerful engines actually fitted? The DB603LA may have been allocated for the B series but the B series wasn't built, and the highest PS of anything accorded production status would seem to be with the 603E and 1800PS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC it was the V18 prototype that was to be fitted with the 603LA as a Do 335B4 prototype; it was partially finished by the war's end.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Even 2100PS of a DB603LA is still a long way short of a Griffon 85, though. 2000-2100 PS is probably pretty good given the poor fuel quality, though, so maybe that's the deciding factor rather than anything else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you missed the 1760PS at 9 km part; the DB 603LA was a high altitude engine, it was not meant to put out that much HP at low altitudes, even though it put out plenty there. The Griffon 85 simply cannot compare - altough it puts out more HP at low altitudes - as it is simply incapable of providing the same amount of horsepower at altitude. Same thing with the Sabre, apart from it being also a much larger and bulkier powerplant, and lot of that extra horsepower produced would be used to make up for that bulk.

If they wished it to pump out more power at low altitude, it would be I believe a rather simple task by reducing its supercharger gearing, and freeing up hundreds of horsepower from driving the supercharger, to put at more straightforward uses at the propeller shaft. On the Griffon 65, for example, driving supercharger required 600 horsepower taken away from the propellor..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Or you have the much lighter Hornet with 2 2070 hp engines - far better power:weight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe the Hornet was meant for an entirely different purpose. Question is, up to what altitude could this 2070 HP maintained?

Now if the Jumo 222 had been put into production they would have really been onto something with the Do 435.

But even so, the performance of the 335 was exceptional with MW50, although getting to be pedestrian for 1945 without it.[/QUOTE]

JSG72
11-13-2008, 02:22 PM
DB603LA-0. At 9Km:

Maximum 1760hp for emergency 1min.
Maximum 1500hp for 30 mins

On 18th Feb 1944 GeneralFeldmarschall Milch.
Sees the Do 335 as a Zerstorer . That would be able to carry harassment raids over a long distance with a single bomb. It seems entiely possible that if the Turbojet version is successful. This version would be pushed through quite quickly and the interest for a Do335 bomber version would drop. Especiall if it turns out that these machines are suitable for the Night Fighting role. Something that appears entirely possible. He sees in this an airplane that can hunt mosquitoes. or a heavy escort fighter able to cover the Ju 290 overwater.

The planned engine for the Do335 was the db603G. Within its planned remit as a Zestorer.

There was continuous development plans for the Do 335.(Just like the "Mustang and Thunderbolt") And this did include Jet engines!
With either a mixture of both Prop and Jet or 2 Jets. Do P254/1-03 and DoP256. As well as Twin fuselage versions for Maritime Strike/Reconnaisance, Do335Z or eventually the lenghthened Junkers Ju 635.

The B4 was a planned Recce version.

The Jumo222 was never proven reliable and when/if so Turbojets would have passed its performance to weight ratio considerably.

Sources:

General Staff meeting minutes 18/2/44

DO335 Arrow Smith/Creek/Hitchcock.and
Me110/210/410. Mankau/Petrick

Player_43
11-14-2008, 12:52 AM
A DR335 and a Mosquito http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/7320/img0355fond07aw9.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
11-14-2008, 01:19 AM
43, nice cloud photoshop. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/Clap.gif I made these clouds for the Strikefighters. Maybe someday The Sims devs will figure out the need to model the air war environment if they want to keep mass customers.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/MiG-15UTI-2.jpg

Player_43
11-14-2008, 02:42 PM
Do you still think it's Photoshop http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ?

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5270/img0355fond2zp3.jpg