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Agent_of_Persia
07-12-2007, 02:18 AM
In all the trailer and demos i've sen, Altair doesn't seem very stealthy, i mean, sure he sneaks around anduses the monks for social stealth and all, but when he gets to the actual assassination, he just walks up there(or, in some cases runs), stabs the guy and runs away. I was wondering, will there be more options for, well, subtle stealth?
Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying Hitman style poisoning, garroting, situational kills etc. but come on-he is an assassin.

Agent_of_Persia
07-12-2007, 02:18 AM
In all the trailer and demos i've sen, Altair doesn't seem very stealthy, i mean, sure he sneaks around anduses the monks for social stealth and all, but when he gets to the actual assassination, he just walks up there(or, in some cases runs), stabs the guy and runs away. I was wondering, will there be more options for, well, subtle stealth?
Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying Hitman style poisoning, garroting, situational kills etc. but come on-he is an assassin.

Tlepolemus7
07-12-2007, 02:26 AM
yeah, he is an assassin, he runs up to people and stabs them or otherwise crossbows them from the roof, thats how crusades-esque assassins work. This isn't splinter cell.

Agent_of_Persia
07-12-2007, 02:41 AM
I know that, but he doesnt have to do it n the middle of a huge crowd. My question is, can he kill them inside buildings or while theyre relatively undefended.

Georg_Maximus
07-12-2007, 02:46 AM
I wondered about that myself. It kinda takes the assassination part out of the kill if it boils down to simple butchering. The game looks beautiful graphics-wise, but I'm becoming increasingly uncertain about the actual gameplay here.

Tlepolemus7
07-12-2007, 02:50 AM
You guys have a wrong opinion regarding to exactly what assassination is. This is how it was done in the crusades. They might use poison every once in a while, but they pay servants to do that, and I'd rather not play a bribing simulator.

Again, this isn't splinter cell, you won't be creeping around and ****, you're gonna either social stealth or blast in. If you don't like it, go find another game.

Agent_of_Persia
07-12-2007, 02:55 AM
That's good, cos i suck at splinter cell

marinius
07-12-2007, 03:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
You guys have a wrong opinion regarding to exactly what assassination is. This is how it was done in the crusades. They might use poison every once in a while, but they pay servants to do that, and I'd rather not play a bribing simulator.

Again, this isn't splinter cell, you won't be creeping around and ****, you're gonna either social stealth or blast in. If you don't like it, go find another game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, no need for that kind of aggression buddy, take a deep breath and calm down. It's good to see that you know exactly what an assassination is and how it was done in the crusades. Still, for the rest of us who might not be as enlightened as you, a bit of speculation and discussion should be allowed, right?

Tlepolemus7
07-12-2007, 03:08 AM
no, no speculation or discussion. I don't want devs to be innocently carousing the forums and see a way to make this game suck even more. Besides, there will be no indoors in this game, everything is done outside or is otherwise scripted inside, so don't expect to see any splinter cell style stealth. Wanna know why? This isn't Splinter Cell.

Georg_Maximus
07-12-2007, 03:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
You guys have a wrong opinion regarding to exactly what assassination is. This is how it was done in the crusades. They might use poison every once in a while, but they pay servants to do that, and I'd rather not play a bribing simulator.

Again, this isn't splinter cell, you won't be creeping around and ****, you're gonna either social stealth or blast in. If you don't like it, go find another game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, easy now - we're just discussing aspects of what we've seen so far. I need to play the game before I bash it or hail it, but if the so-called assassinations involves creating mayhem and bravado, then I'll admiddetly be somewhat disappointed. Sure it's not Splinter Cell - even Splinter Cell is not Splinter Cell anynmore - but when they've presumably spent a whole lot of work on creating a believable social stealth system, them going in all blazing guns kinda ruins the concept.

And besides: this wasn't "how it was done in the crusades". People are not more vulnerable to gravity these days, and falling 50 metres into a haystack would probably beat you up pretty badly in the 12th century as well.

Georg_Maximus
07-12-2007, 03:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:I don't want devs to be innocently carousing the forums and see a way to make this game suck even more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why are you at all interested in this game if you think it's going to suck?

Agent_of_Persia
07-12-2007, 03:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
Besides, there will be no indoors in this game, everything is done outside or is otherwise scripted inside, so don't expect to see any splinter cell style stealth. Wanna know why? This isn't Splinter Cell. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Untrue. I distinctly remember some dev saying somewhere that there wont be any inconsistencies like being able to climb one ledge and not another or being able to bash one door in and not the other. Besides, what you're suggesting implies level-based scripted sequences, which is mutually exclusive to free running or whatever its called

marinius
07-12-2007, 03:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
no, no speculation or discussion. I don't want devs to be innocently carousing the forums and see a way to make this game suck even more. Besides, there will be no indoors in this game, everything is done outside or is otherwise scripted inside, so don't expect to see any splinter cell style stealth. Wanna know why? This isn't Splinter Cell. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, sorry man, I thought this was a discussion forum. But if YOU don't want any of that then my bad.

Tlepolemus7
07-12-2007, 03:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Hey, easy now - we're just discussing aspects of what we've seen so far. I need to play the game before I bash it or hail it, but if the so-called assassinations involves creating mayhem and bravado, then I'll admiddetly be somewhat disappointed. Sure it's not Splinter Cell - even Splinter Cell is not Splinter Cell anynmore - but when they've presumably spent a whole lot of work on creating a believable social stealth system, them going in all blazing guns kinda ruins the concept.

And besides: this wasn't "how it was done in the crusades". People are not more vulnerable to gravity these days, and falling 50 metres into a haystack would probably beat you up pretty badly in the 12th century as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No one is discussing what they've seen so far, they're discussing what they want to see, and what they want to see is what isn't going to be in this game, sorry.

The assassinations (yes, assassinations can be done without stealth and are still considered as such) in this game can be done with limited degrees of social stealth. Thats why the original poster was responded to negatively when he asked whether or not you will kill people without just walking (or running) up to the target, killing them, then running. Unless scripted that is whats going to happen. So there will be mayhem and bravado AFTER the target dies unless scripted as otherwise (as seen in the latest demo)

There will be stealth, social stealth, but there won't be sneaking around in the shadows stealth, thats what I was saying.

And as far as how things were done during the crusades, that was what this game set out to be however many years ago, and I was there loving it, now I am just trying to salvage what may still be considered historically accurate. Believe me, I am just as pissed about the stupid *** haystack **** as you are.

Oh boy, you got me, if I think this game sucks why am I interested in it? Because I think it has potential and I realize, as everyone keeps telling me, the game is not yet in a finished state and I think it might just get better.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Untrue. I distinctly remember some dev saying somewhere that there wont be any inconsistencies like being able to climb one ledge and not another or being able to bash one door in and not the other. Besides, what you're suggesting implies level-based scripted sequences, which is mutually exclusive to free running or whatever its called </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Untrue? IGN's recent hands on review says different. There will be no inconsistincies, sure, so I guess there will be NO bashing in doors. Sorry.

as far as what I'm suggesting implying scripted sequences which is mutually exclusive of freerunning... elaborate.

Georg_Maximus
07-12-2007, 03:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
No one is discussing what they've seen so far, they're discussing what they want to see, and what they want to see is what isn't going to be in this game, sorry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And so are you buddy, so get off your high horse. Besides, the OP didn't request SC-style shadow-based stealth - in fact he admitted that he sucks at SC, so he would be glad if AC didn't include that - but rather a more subtle assassination system that lets you do your stuff without all the mayhem. And I for one am all for it.

Tlepolemus7
07-12-2007, 03:50 AM
No, I'm discussing what has been said by Jade Raymond and shown numerous times to be the focal point of this game. If the op didn't want shadow stealth I'm frankly confused as to what the hell he was talking about. A more subtle way of stabbing someone in the neck? I think you're confused.

moqqy
07-12-2007, 04:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Hey, easy now - we're just discussing aspects of what we've seen so far. I need to play the game before I bash it or hail it, but if the so-called assassinations involves creating mayhem and bravado, then I'll admiddetly be somewhat disappointed. Sure it's not Splinter Cell - even Splinter Cell is not Splinter Cell anynmore - but when they've presumably spent a whole lot of work on creating a believable social stealth system, them going in all blazing guns kinda ruins the concept.

And besides: this wasn't "how it was done in the crusades". People are not more vulnerable to gravity these days, and falling 50 metres into a haystack would probably beat you up pretty badly in the 12th century as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No one is discussing what they've seen so far, they're discussing what they want to see, and what they want to see is what isn't going to be in this game, sorry.

The assassinations (yes, assassinations can be done without stealth and are still considered as such) in this game can be done with limited degrees of social stealth. Thats why the original poster was responded to negatively when he asked whether or not you will kill people without just walking (or running) up to the target, killing them, then running. Unless scripted that is whats going to happen. So there will be mayhem and bravado AFTER the target dies unless scripted as otherwise (as seen in the latest demo)

There will be stealth, social stealth, but there won't be sneaking around in the shadows stealth, thats what I was saying.

And as far as how things were done during the crusades, that was what this game set out to be however many years ago, and I was there loving it, now I am just trying to salvage what may still be considered historically accurate. Believe me, I am just as pissed about the stupid *** haystack **** as you are.

Oh boy, you got me, if I think this game sucks why am I interested in it? Because I think it has potential and I realize, as everyone keeps telling me, the game is not yet in a finished state and I think it might just get better.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Untrue. I distinctly remember some dev saying somewhere that there wont be any inconsistencies like being able to climb one ledge and not another or being able to bash one door in and not the other. Besides, what you're suggesting implies level-based scripted sequences, which is mutually exclusive to free running or whatever its called </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Untrue? IGN's recent hands on review says different. There will be no inconsistincies, sure, so I guess there will be NO bashing in doors. Sorry.

as far as what I'm suggesting implying scripted sequences which is mutually exclusive of freerunning... elaborate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well it was an demo..

and agent of persia

"I know that, but he doesnt have to do it n the middle of a huge crowd. My question is, can he kill them inside buildings or while theyre relatively undefended."

but he does have to do in the middle of a huge crowd. thats how hashashin did it

Georg_Maximus
07-12-2007, 04:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
No, I'm discussing what has been said by Jade Raymond and shown numerous times to be the focal point of this game. If the op didn't want shadow stealth I'm frankly confused as to what the hell he was talking about. A more subtle way of stabbing someone in the neck? I think you're confused. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the gameplay could eg. let you do your kills in more secluded locations like inside someone's house or in a back alley without a lot of people around. I know assassinations can be anything but subtle and sneaky, but I'm just hoping that you at least get the possibility of completing some of your missions with less bravado than what we've seen so far. And if that's not going to be the case, then so be it, but I'm probably going to miss it.

Tlepolemus7
07-12-2007, 05:09 AM
a bigtime leader who is pulling strings and singlehandedly causing wars is not going to be wandering around back alleys alone.

As for killing someone inside their house, I won't deny that there is a possibility, but that kind of thing will be the exception, not the rule, so if you are buying a game for that kind of thing, I wouldn't reccomend AC.

As far as it "just being a demo" Killzone 2 is PRE-pre-alpha and looks like gods gift to gaming. "its just a demo" is no longer an excuse if games want to compete.

Georg_Maximus
07-12-2007, 05:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
a bigtime leader who is pulling strings and singlehandedly causing wars is not going to be wandering around back alleys alone.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But Altair isn't the "big time leader", is he?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
As for killing someone inside their house, I won't deny that there is a possibility, but that kind of thing will be the exception, not the rule, so if you are buying a game for that kind of thing, I wouldn't reccomend AC.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And that, my friend, you don't know, because you haven't played it. The E3 gameplay demo actually showed him going into the merchant's house.

moqqy
07-12-2007, 05:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
a bigtime leader who is pulling strings and singlehandedly causing wars is not going to be wandering around back alleys alone.

As for killing someone inside their house, I won't deny that there is a possibility, but that kind of thing will be the exception, not the rule, so if you are buying a game for that kind of thing, I wouldn't reccomend AC.

As far as it "just being a demo" Killzone 2 is PRE-pre-alpha and looks like gods gift to gaming. "its just a demo" is no longer an excuse if games want to compete. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AC looks far better than KZ 2, In my opinion.


"But Altair isn't the "big time leader", is he?"
But altair isnt gonna assassinat himself, is he?

and if theyre going for historically accurate the assassinations would be done in public mostly.

ScytheOfGrim
07-12-2007, 05:49 AM
jade did mention something about a target being in a fortress in one of her interviews though, so i think there just might be at least one assassination in doors.

but moqqy's right, the assassinations are in public cuz they wanted to leave their mark and wanted people to know they were doing it.

Tlepolemus7
07-12-2007, 06:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:
AC looks far better than KZ 2, In my opinion.


"But Altair isn't the "big time leader", is he?"
But altair isnt gonna assassinat himself, is he?

and if theyre going for historically accurate the assassinations would be done in public mostly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't implying that altair was the big time leader, I was implying that the people altair would be killing wouldn't be carousing the alleys of antioch alone.

Oh yeah, and your opinion is wrong.

Joking, they're different genres so it really doesn't matter what looks 'better', but the fact that PRE-pre-alpha has smoother animations and tighter graphics than a game that may or may not be nearing its release says alot.

chikkenstorm
07-12-2007, 06:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Georg_Maximus:
Well, the gameplay could eg. let you do your kills in more secluded locations like inside someone's house or in a back alley without a lot of people around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, as you've seen in the demo, your targets may run away. And if you where being chased by a killer, would you run into an alley? No, you'd run trough the crowd, hoping the killer may loose you or won't kill you with all the people around.
So you can kill someone in an alley, if he is so stupid to run to there.

moqqy
07-12-2007, 06:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by moqqy:
AC looks far better than KZ 2, In my opinion.


"But Altair isn't the "big time leader", is he?"
But altair isnt gonna assassinat himself, is he?

and if theyre going for historically accurate the assassinations would be done in public mostly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't implying that altair was the big time leader, I was implying that the people altair would be killing wouldn't be carousing the alleys of antioch alone.

Oh yeah, and your opinion is wrong.

Joking, they're different genres so it really doesn't matter what looks 'better', but the fact that PRE-pre-alpha has smoother animations and tighter graphics than a game that may or may not be nearing its release says alot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ahh but i answered to the other guy.. that wasnt quote from you, he obviously somehow thought that u talked about altair :S

Georg_Maximus
07-12-2007, 06:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tlepolemus7:I wasn't implying that altair was the big time leader, I was implying that the people altair would be killing wouldn't be carousing the alleys of antioch alone.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, my bad. I see you point http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Georg_Maximus
07-12-2007, 06:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chikkenstorm:
Well, as you've seen in the demo, your targets may run away. And if you where being chased by a killer, would you run into an alley? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In that particular case you would of course have to bring the action to the streets, but that was presumably because Altair screwed up and walked into a trap in the first place. He would most probably prefer to find the merchant alone and unprotected in his house.

Tlepolemus7
07-12-2007, 07:14 AM
The demo we saw at e3 was of a certain level that was very obviously thoroughly scripted, I really doubt too many missions will go that way. And if the guy is running into an alley, there is already a total lack of stealth as he is running from you. I think the issue is over, though talking about it remains fun.

boogymonster199
07-12-2007, 07:31 AM
the game will be based around public assassinations because the point of the game is to stop the crusade/war-that-is-going-on and the best, if hard, way to do that is, if theres a man whos causing a problem and making life miserable for people and acting all tuff, is to run up and knife him in the face, that way you not only stop his reign, but send fear into others of his situation as they could easily be next, you make it widely known that your against the war and someone to be taken seriously and finally have the perfect envirnonment to escape- complete choas. thats not to say there will never be stealth missions, you may require sublety sometimes, and as they showed at the e3 demo, your basic movement is a silent walk so you can sneakfully take care of archers on the roof and so on, but the main reason for stealth is to approach your target unhindered or noticed so you can make the final charge and kill him, in front of a crowd of people you wont be that sneaky if your creeping up behind some guy, no matter how quite you can move. *inhales(even though he didnt actually say anything)*

EDIT: the hashashin's whole thing was standing up to people and letting everyone know they dont take no ****, so if you got mad enough skillz that noone figures out who killed him your too sneaky for your own cause

moqqy
07-12-2007, 07:41 AM
"You can also do assassinations. The quiet ones require you to stand behind your target, and then slip the knife silently into them and walk away as they slowing slump to the ground. But much more exciting is the speed assassination that you can perform while running at your target. Doing this gets you to leap into your target, plunging the dagger into their knife and then running away as people scream"

gamepro11
07-12-2007, 02:57 PM
Something I want to do is to see someone standing in front of a dark alley way and I drop down and pull them in the alley and assassinate them in the dark then walk away and blend back into the crowd.

OhItsArcheys
07-12-2007, 03:07 PM
well this is more action adventure! not the kinda stealth game you think its is ,
first if they would put a way of assassinating from shadows and such (and isnt that by the way called stalking , but im probly wrong) they would RIP off the one great thing they made the escape , because if you kill someone from the shadows no one would notice , yes alot of people like that but hey this isnt the kinda of game , this is Action Adventure ( but maybe they call stealth games like that now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif lol)