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Nick_Toznost
07-14-2005, 11:00 AM
Has anyone here taken off in a TB-3 recently?, I would say it has the shortest distance to leave the ground than any other plane in the game. Even fully laden with 4000lb worth of bombs it leaps into the sky like a lovesick zeppelin. I'm not a 4.01 whinger or anything, I was just wondering how accurate this really was because it does have an enormous wing surface area, which I'm sure would provide huge quantities of lift, but perhaps not after taxiing for 10 metres at 70km/h.
Any ideas?

Nick_Toznost
07-14-2005, 11:00 AM
Has anyone here taken off in a TB-3 recently?, I would say it has the shortest distance to leave the ground than any other plane in the game. Even fully laden with 4000lb worth of bombs it leaps into the sky like a lovesick zeppelin. I'm not a 4.01 whinger or anything, I was just wondering how accurate this really was because it does have an enormous wing surface area, which I'm sure would provide huge quantities of lift, but perhaps not after taxiing for 10 metres at 70km/h.
Any ideas?

Slechtvalk
07-14-2005, 11:13 AM
Ok I just tested the TB-3. What a joke!!!! I can put this plane in almost 90 degrees just after take off http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. And yes only 10 mtrs and 70km/hour speed needed...

Something really wrong. Also it got's bad prop torgue so it goes to the right which shouldn't happen with 4 engines or?

Slechtvalk
07-14-2005, 11:15 AM
And this prop torgue feels wrong for all planes although I have no experience with it first hand and I think prop torgue is cool when you move your throttle up fast! But is the prop torgue always there?? When you don't move the throttle anymore shouldn't it go away in real?? please enlighten me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Slechtvalk
07-14-2005, 11:19 AM
Wow this plane is fun. I could almost make a complete loop if I had enough altitude just after take off.

Maybe with a little practise I can do it.

Edit >> I managed to make a complete loop right after take off http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

strelnik_Sipi
07-14-2005, 11:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slechtvalk:
And this prop torgue feels wrong for all planes although I have no experience with it first hand and I think prop torgue is cool when you move your throttle up fast! But is the prop torgue always there?? When you don't move the throttle anymore shouldn't it go away in real?? please enlighten me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
AFAIK it should be there. Its not just the torgue, its the gyro efekt and spiral airflow from the prop.

GAU-8
07-14-2005, 11:50 AM
use QMB, put up a few TB3's, around 2 or 3 K and attack them .tell me what you see..

from what i have experienced, after they take a few hits they go into ""evasive manuevering" by doing a series of roll after roll after roll after roll, and never losing altitude... if your doing boom and zoom on them, when you extend away from them and look back.. looks like silver fish in the water with relections dancin around.. youll see what i mean

VW-IceFire
07-14-2005, 12:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slechtvalk:
And this prop torgue feels wrong for all planes although I have no experience with it first hand and I think prop torgue is cool when you move your throttle up fast! But is the prop torgue always there?? When you don't move the throttle anymore shouldn't it go away in real?? please enlighten me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That prop is still spinning....the torque from it just doesn't go away....

NorrisMcWhirter
07-14-2005, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GAU-8:
use QMB, put up a few TB3's, around 2 or 3 K and attack them .tell me what you see..

from what i have experienced, after they take a few hits they go into ""evasive manuevering" by doing a series of roll after roll after roll after roll, and never losing altitude... if your doing boom and zoom on them, when you extend away from them and look back.. looks like silver fish in the water with relections dancin around.. youll see what i mean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. They do....roll and roll and roll.

Check out my post in this thread as I posted some pics.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/2601076033/p/13

Ta,
Norris

lbhskier37
07-14-2005, 12:44 PM
I think the torque effect on bombers is a bit exagerated. The HE111 is darn near unflyable.

Slechtvalk
07-14-2005, 12:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by strelnik_Sipi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slechtvalk:
And this prop torgue feels wrong for all planes although I have no experience with it first hand and I think prop torgue is cool when you move your throttle up fast! But is the prop torgue always there?? When you don't move the throttle anymore shouldn't it go away in real?? please enlighten me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
AFAIK it should be there. Its not just the torgue, its the gyro efekt and spiral airflow from the prop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes so they told though I still have a hard time believing it was like this and that it makes so much difference at which speed you are flying which in a dogfight will give strange odd movements and with taking off it's pretty hard to get yourself in a straight line.

But I have nothing to backup my complains though so I better be silent.

JG7_Rall
07-14-2005, 01:14 PM
The TB3 is awesome

I esp. love taking my friends under my wings in it when they're annoying me, and either drop them right on take off or dive bomb them into something. It's quite fun.

Nick_Toznost
07-14-2005, 01:36 PM
I wasn't ****ging off the TB3, I love it too. I just wondered whether anyone else thought the FM had it stuffed full of helium.

JG7_Rall, How did you get your friends in the Zveno? Was that a Lan-co-op type thing?. I've never seen the TB3/i16 setup in any servers. Sounds quite fun. Also never seen any Mistels, explosive power like that could be very satisfying against human opponants.

LStarosta
07-14-2005, 01:59 PM
You can tell you're not a real pilot when you whine about torque in high performance engines.

BTW I am one of the friends he is referring to. You can do this in dogfight mode too. Just bind a button to attach/detach aircraft, taxi the I16 under the hardpoint and press the button. Voila.

Slechtvalk
07-14-2005, 02:38 PM
I love torgue.

Though it just doesn't feel right for me because it depends allot at which speeds you are flying..

You fly slow (with full throttle) planes goes to right allot.. when going faster it goes less to right? Just trying to understand or does altitude matters more with torgue then the speed (with same ammount of throttle).

Capt_Haddock
07-14-2005, 03:34 PM
You haven't seen a real Ju-52 flying, have you? Well, you wouldn't believe how incredibly slow it is. I swear it looked like it was full of hellium. And when the thing started to turn around, it almost stopped mid-air. Scary sight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I imagine a TB-3 will look pretty much the same. The wings are almost identical after all...

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh2.jpg

JG7_Rall
07-14-2005, 03:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
You can tell you're not a real pilot when you whine about torque in high performance engines.

BTW I am one of the friends he is referring to. You can do this in dogfight mode too. Just bind a button to attach/detach aircraft, taxi the I16 under the hardpoint and press the button. Voila. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Yeah, all you have to do is have I16's taxi under your wings and have them bind a key to attach to the plane. I try not to dive bomb luke, but Justin is one of my favorite people to send to a fiery death by smashing him into a factory. Great times

Nick_Toznost
07-14-2005, 04:39 PM
Captain haddock, that was exactly the reply I was looking for, can a plane that heavy and slow really manouvre itself that well at such slow speeds?. I guess it's still a bit inconclusive how it manifests itself in the game but thankyou. And thanks to everyone else that replied.

Fehler
07-14-2005, 11:18 PM
Which way does the pencil roll now with 4.01 torque?

F19_Ob
07-15-2005, 01:29 AM
Seemingly all planes turn a bit too well with the new FM. the improved stalls have the effect that many or all planes can keep a hard turn going longer than before, resulting in a bit better turn, aswell as lift.
It's reported in the bugreport but it might help if more people post about the issue.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ClnlSandersLite
07-15-2005, 02:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slechtvalk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by strelnik_Sipi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slechtvalk:
And this prop torgue feels wrong for all planes although I have no experience with it first hand and I think prop torgue is cool when you move your throttle up fast! But is the prop torgue always there?? When you don't move the throttle anymore shouldn't it go away in real?? please enlighten me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
AFAIK it should be there. Its not just the torgue, its the gyro efekt and spiral airflow from the prop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes so they told though I still have a hard time believing it was like this and that it makes so much difference at which speed you are flying which in a dogfight will give strange odd movements and with taking off it's pretty hard to get yourself in a straight line.

But I have nothing to backup my complains though so I better be silent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's pretty simple really. It is correct.

Torque does NOT, "go away after awhile." It remains as long as the engine and prop are producing thrust. The more thrust produced, the more torque.

As to speed affecting torque, this is simple enough to explain as well.

The faster an aircraft is moving, the more air is bieng grabbed by the vertical surfaces (up and down parts like the rudder, etc). The more air bieng grabbed, the more effective the vertical surfaces become. In a nutshell, the faster you go, the more effective your rudder is and therefore the less input you need to counteract torque. The torque is still there, just your plane is counteracting it better as it gets faster.

73GIAP_Milan
07-15-2005, 05:18 AM
The TB3 showing that behaviour is just odd..

on the torque: it just feels wrong on all sides.. too much on some planes and pls explain me why i even have torque while the engine is STOPPED/DEAD and the prop is either stopped/feathered or just windmilling a bit..

It cannot be real that it almost flips an airplane that way as the prop is not producing enough thrust in that moment to induce any noticable effect.
And that on a NEUTRAL trimmed plane..
It's really strange or am i missing something here? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Slechtvalk
07-15-2005, 05:23 AM
You wrong, be sure! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

For me flying doesn't feel natural anymore it does things that I ain't expecting and just doesn't feel right. And this isn't about harder or easier...

Flying should be a natural thing right?

Cajun76
07-15-2005, 07:22 AM
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/dynamics/q0015a.shtml

http://www.eich.com/allan/stallspin.htm

I happan to be an engine mechanic on the Rolls-Royce (formerly Allison) T-56 turboprop on the C-130 Hercules.

Believe me, torque is always being produced. Think of it this way. The T-56 uses a constant speed prop. The engine and prop are always supposed to be at 100% in the flight range. (1020rpm for prop, 13,800rpm for the engine)

You get more power by increasing fuel flow. The engine would overspeed if not for the prop. The blade angle increases to limit the engine speed, increasing the torque produced. The prop is an rpm limiter for the engine, the result is thrust. Our checks for performance and the indicators the pilots fly by are the torque and turbine inlet temp (TIT = Tee Eye Tee) The engine is supposed to ideally produce 19,600 ft lbs. of torque at the wall (Takeoff), with a TIT of 971C.

Hope the links and my ramblings about my job help clear up torque a bit more. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stef51
07-15-2005, 08:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nick_Toznost:
I wasn't ****ging off the TB3, I love it too. I just wondered whether anyone else thought the FM had it stuffed full of helium.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With the previous version, once online, I was badly damaged and automatically went into a nice horizontal spin from 2000 meters high and got a nice crash on the grass. Everyone went out of the craft unharmed. So yes, it is full of helium.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Stephen

Slechtvalk
07-15-2005, 02:15 PM
This tb3 is the most fun plane to fly now.
I can almost make endless loops right after take off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

http://www.mkbgroep.nl/downloads/roll.jpg

gkll
07-16-2005, 12:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For me flying doesn't feel natural anymore it does things that I ain't expecting and just doesn't feel right. And this isn't about harder or easier...

Flying should be a natural thing right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm no pilot but I don't believe it is all intuition and feel... from reading up on flying it seems that pilots have to train themselves to do what seems odd in some cases, usually in situations on the edge of the flight envelope. Trying to roll a plane straight when the wing dips in a slow speed turn may make things worse, some rudder and throttle may be called for in this situation, but no roll input.

This version of the FM seems a lot more sensitive to slip and skid, keep things nicely balanced and it seems you can get much more out of the plane. After I get some significant hours on the new FM I will switch back to a few earlier versions and compare, it should seem obvious then.

Anyway I think it is finally worth it to study up on RL flying and apply the techniques to get max perf., previous FM variants did not seem sensitive enough to really need such....

Anyway I am still very low hours on the new FM but have enjoyed it much so far.

FritzGryphon
07-16-2005, 12:34 AM
http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/tb3.jpg

Descent speed in a spin, ~15 km/h. Like Stef51 said, completely survivable.

I can run twice as fast as thing this can fall.

Slechtvalk
07-16-2005, 02:39 AM
Nice! Can you land it spinning?
The tb3 was perhaps the first Heli and we never knew!?

stef51
07-16-2005, 10:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
http://members.shaw.ca/fennec/tb3.jpg

Descent speed in a spin, ~15 km/h. Like Stef51 said, completely survivable.

I can run twice as fast as thing this can fall. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since I was already damaged at the time, I broke up in pieces a little at the landing, did you get any damage? I assume at least the landing gear....

Stef51