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Breeze147
08-14-2004, 08:44 AM
How could I get started in the direction of learning to speak, read and write Russian. And don't say "Move To Russia". This could be something to take up when I retire.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

Breeze147
08-14-2004, 08:44 AM
How could I get started in the direction of learning to speak, read and write Russian. And don't say "Move To Russia". This could be something to take up when I retire.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

PBNA-Boosher
08-14-2004, 08:53 AM
That's something I've wanted to do all my life. I guess you could try to find a night course somewhere, or buy a textbook and start on your own...

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

S 8
08-14-2004, 08:58 AM
Move to Russia. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Or this can can be a start ( haven‚¬īt tried it myself though)
http://www.declan-software.com/russian/

Magistertc
08-14-2004, 10:23 AM
Another Way -
I was in the military during the 60's, got to Language School in Monterey, assigned to Russian, THEN told that if I flunk out I would be sent to Vietnam as a cook. I got good enough at Russian to get a high-paying job later, for which Russian fluency was a requirement.

I would suggest that some home study/preparation and then a total immersion course is the way to go.

AdmiralWarlord
08-14-2004, 10:37 AM
Take college courses. Online courses do not have good pronounciation and it is vital.

Once you do learn Russian you will be opened up to 100s of WW2 films, documents, interviews and heck, you will be able to understand what the pilots are saying.

P.S. you will also learn that 99 % of American films/games have gibberish for Russian. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Rushin Russian
08-14-2004, 12:27 PM
I've been trying to do this in my spare time... And it's really hard. I wish my college had a Russian class, but those are rare, so www.masterrussian.com (http://www.masterrussian.com) will have to do for now.

http://www.sighost.us/members/RushinRussian/il2sig.jpg
Supermarine Spitfire Mk. IXc

"On the European Front the most important development of the past year has been the crushing offensive of the Great Armies of Russia." - Franklin D. Roosevelt, April 1942

Red_Russian13
08-14-2004, 01:01 PM
My school has a good Russian Studies program which is largely taught by a Russian Orthodox Priest. He is very good.

The only problem (which even he admits), is that he is not a native Russian, therefore we lose things like slang and certain terms. So, when we go to Russia for the study abroad program, we're armed with solid grammer and pronunciation, which makes it a breeze to learn the more complex nuances of every day speech.

He does have an excellent understanding of Russian culture though, and gives you insight into their daily lives.

My advice, short of joining the military and getting into language school at the Defense Language Institue (DLI), is take some courses if available, and then get immersed. Speak with native speakers or even fluent speakers as much as possible.

Red Russian

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/Red_Russian13/RedRussian.jpg

Capt_Haddock
08-14-2004, 01:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AdmiralWarlord:
P.S. you will also learn that 99 % of American films/games have gibberish for Russian. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't know it, but to be honest I'm not surprised. I've seen it done with Spanish... hardly an unknown language in the US.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg
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triggerhappyfin
08-14-2004, 04:12 PM
I myself conscider myself lucky...not to speak Russian.

With a language like that I wouldn‚¬īt understand my owne thoughts http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif.

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Heads-on firing was not a safe practice after all ?
Jussi Huotari: It was not specially recommended‚.....
And later, as the Russians were armed with 20mm cannons, it was unwise to meet them heads-on

giannis72
08-15-2004, 01:12 AM
You will also pay Il2, FB, BOE and AEP a maximum of 150 rubles (~5 dollars), buying the original 1C games...
As for me, I married a Russian...after living in Moscow for 3 years

AdmiralWarlord
08-15-2004, 02:33 PM
Yes Captain, it is unfortunate but true. Listening to Sean Connery speak Russian in Red October makes me want to approach my 10th story window. Listening to the American choir singing (what they think) is Russian makes me want to jump.

Il-2 sturmovik is the ONLY game I know which has real Russian. Most put in british accents or americans who try to sound Russian speaking English. Goldeneye game for n64 was hilarious. They randomly places Russian letters in consoles, and sometimes they placed letters that do not even exist - yes, they MADE UP their own language. Makes you wonder why they could not get a 6 dollar Russian dictionary http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

There, my venting is finished.

Obi_Kwiet
08-15-2004, 02:40 PM
Wow! That's cheap!

ThunderParrot
08-15-2004, 10:01 PM
I have always wanted to learn Russian, I recently had the chance to visist and loved it, but was only able to learn a very few words, and im afraid I buthered the language. I have a fairly large number of teach yourself Russian books and computer programs and CDs, and I would have to teach it to myself, since there is no Russian program at the university I attend. Any thoughts or opinions on my chances of teaching myself? How about getting the pronounciation remotely correct? everytime I think I have an idea of how it works, I hear something that completely throws me. I kinda figured that learning the slang and such would require living there probably.

Red_Russian13, what school do you attend that has a Russian program? and you mentioned a study abroad trip there, that is how I was able to visit, and I was curious as to where in Russia you would go?

budvar62
08-16-2004, 02:43 AM
Well, I've beestudying russian for about a year now at night class (because of a planned holiday to St Petersburg and Moscow) and I can tell you it isn't an easy language (not that I'm a natural linguist). But I would back up some of the advice posted earlier - pronunciation is very important and cannot be determined by written form due to the way russian has stressed and unstressed vowels as well as emphasis. But - I 've met a load of interesting people (always good) and several russians without whose help I wouldn't even be as far as I am, and that isn't far - ya gavaryu pa-russkie plocka as they say!

I live in the UK and here the night classes has cost me ‚£50 (maybe $75) for 20 weeks - dunno how it works in the US. Anyway, I've learned some, can order beers, and made loads of new friends so if you've got an equivalent option I would say go for it!

PS: All the Russians I now know say themselves that Russian is not an easy language to learn - but I was lucky and did Latin as a kid - if you did as well, it's a big help because of Russian grammar.

SUPERAEREO
08-16-2004, 03:19 AM
I have felt tempted to learn some Russian for ages.

Does anyone know of any good (and CHEAP) courses in the UK (LONDON)?

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down." - Chuck Yaeger

"Ja, Hunde, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?" - Friedrich der Große

"Timeo Danaos, et dona ferentes" - ”*neid

jurinko
08-16-2004, 06:21 AM
hehe guys you should live on the other side of the iron curtain and you would get so much Russian in school you should be sick of it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I got 8 years myself. Not an easy language for Westerners, just like Polish/Slovak/Czech..

---------------------
Letka_13/Liptow @ HL

bazzaah2
08-16-2004, 06:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SUPERAEREO:
I have felt tempted to learn some Russian for ages.

Does anyone know of any good (and CHEAP) courses in the UK (LONDON)?

S!


"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down." - Chuck Yaeger

"Ja, Hunde, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?" - Friedrich der Große

"Timeo Danaos, et dona ferentes" - ”*neid<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You could try the University of Westminster - they did quite a nice course a while back; plenty of Russians around as well. Not sure about ab initio programmes but that should be a good first step.

It's not that hard either; if you have a grounding in Latin or other inflected languages you'll be fine.

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Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

Normally Spiny Norman was wont to be about
twelve feet from snout to tail, but when Dinsdale was depressed Norman could be
anything up to eight hundred yards long.

KSS_Shrike_UK
08-16-2004, 06:34 AM
funnily enough, i went to borders book shop at the weekend and it hit me that i'll never learn russian from a dictionary, and its something ive been wishing i'd learned for a long time, so i had a quick look around and found a learn to speak russian book and CD pack. i dont know the actual title, it just says 'Russian' on the cover and has lots of garish windows on a house wall on the cover. i recommend it, i tried it out and instantly can remember a few more words, and it teaches you how to pronounce words, most words are pronounced how they are written from what i gather so far (the package is just for getting around in russia, a starting). so know i know how to read some too!. is cool http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Shrike
Squadron Leader
Kindred Spirits Squadron
kss.dogfighters.net

PBNA-Boosher
08-16-2004, 06:36 AM
Oh Awesome! I take Latin as my High School language. That should help then... I'm also trying to learn some ancient greek, but that's proving very slow.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

bazzaah2
08-16-2004, 06:52 AM
yep Latin should help you! As well as being an inflected language, Russian has a lot of roots from Latin as well so a knowledge of Latin should help you figure a lot of stuff out.

Good luck with the Ancient Greek! Bit of a mindf*ck by all accounts, with that aorist imperative and what have you. Dump the Greek and teach yourself Russian!

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Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

Normally Spiny Norman was wont to be about
twelve feet from snout to tail, but when Dinsdale was depressed Norman could be
anything up to eight hundred yards long.

SUPERAEREO
08-16-2004, 07:13 AM
Well I DID study Latin (and Greek) for a couple of years, and I speak fluent French as well as English and Italian. I would find Russian interesting to study because I know so little about Slavic languages.

By the way, there is a sizeable Russian community in West London, with their own Ortodox church and everything, even if it is somewhat overshadowed by the huge Polish community.

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down." - Chuck Yaeger

"Ja, Hunde, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?" - Friedrich der Große

"Timeo Danaos, et dona ferentes" - ”*neid

bazzaah2
08-16-2004, 07:35 AM
well, sounds like you have a good knack with languages so I'm sure you won't have any trouble learning Russian. G'luck!

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

Normally Spiny Norman was wont to be about
twelve feet from snout to tail, but when Dinsdale was depressed Norman could be
anything up to eight hundred yards long.

mortoma
08-16-2004, 09:37 AM
I wonder if English is harder for Russians to learn than Russian is for English speakers to learn. It always seems that the Russians that do learn English, learn it fairly well. I personally think Russian would be hard for english speakers to learn because there are almost no similarities
between the two languages. At least Germanic and Romance languages have quite a few similarities to English.

bazzaah2
08-16-2004, 09:53 AM
there are plenty of differences but it is not true to say that there are no similarities; both are Indo-european languages and share common roots.

English must be a sod of a language to learn, with its 16 tenses and weird spelling.

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Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

Normally Spiny Norman was wont to be about
twelve feet from snout to tail, but when Dinsdale was depressed Norman could be
anything up to eight hundred yards long.

SUPERAEREO
08-16-2004, 09:54 AM
It is also true that there are many words in Russian that have very recognizable Germanic or Latin roots, the words for brother, sister, water etc. (Germanic) or for house, sea, etc. (Latin), for example.

S!



"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down." - Chuck Yaeger

"Ja, Hunde, wollt ihr denn ewig leben?" - Friedrich der Große

"Timeo Danaos, et dona ferentes" - ”*neid

KarayaEine
08-16-2004, 10:01 AM
My whole family on my mothers side was from the Ukraine and spoke russian. It always bugged me when they talked I could not understand them. I always wanted to talk to my grandmother but she could not speak english at all (even though she lived in America for most of her life).

I was fortunate enough that my High School offered Russian. I took it for 4 years and after my senior year we went to the Soviet Union (1981). It was a real eye-opening experience. Unfortunately I never got to talk to my babushka because she died right before my freshman year in High School.

Russian is probably one of the harder languages to learn. It has 9 cases and you need to know all of them to conjugate verbs correctly. if you ever want to know more about the english language take any foreign language and you'll see what I mean. I have a lot of respect for anyone that can learn english because it's one confusing language to be sure.

Johann

Horrido!
"We need more ammo!"
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Red_Russian13
08-16-2004, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Red_Russian13, what school do you attend that has a Russian program? and you mentioned a study abroad trip there, that is how I was able to visit, and I was curious as to where in Russia you would go?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ThunderParrot;

I attend Mercyhurst College in Erie, Pennsylvannia. There is a robust study abroad program too, mostly going to Moscow or St Petersburg.

Red Russian

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/Red_Russian13/RedRussian.jpg

ANGST
08-16-2004, 10:03 AM
... but remember you must think in Russian ... or plane will not understand you.

crazyivan1970
08-16-2004, 10:33 AM
That`s a start: http://masterrussian.com/index-2.cfm

V!
Regards,

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

LeadSpitter_
08-16-2004, 10:53 AM
Get one of the mail order brides and have them teach you.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

Breeze147
08-16-2004, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Get one of the mail order brides and have them teach you.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifMaybe that's why I want to learn it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

AdmiralWarlord
08-16-2004, 01:02 PM
English is not very difficult for Russians. However Russian is difficult unless you speak a Slavik language (polish, macedonian dialects, bulgarian...).

German has many similiar words in Russian. Stuhl = Stool, Kartoffel = Kartoshka... and there are multiple direct german words in the Russian language especially in naval terms such as SchlagBaum and Junge.

Magistertc
08-16-2004, 01:42 PM
There are cognates running back and forth between Russian and numerous other languages:
tovarishch = toveri (Finnish) comrade
tovary = tavara (Finnish) goods, chattels
then there is
Petschaft (German) from pechat' (seal/stamp)
German for science and mechanics
Dutch for ships and sailing
and a bunch of French origin (since French
was the court language before Pushkin)
leto = summer
ty = you (familiar)
and aeronautics
fuselage, forsage, empennage, equipage
parachute (!?) etc., etc
modern spoken Russian is heavily loaded with foreign words, especially computer related terms
but beware of some false cognates!
Russian is designed for neologisms, you can easily build words from root sources and compounding. Supposedly Russian has about five times as many vocabulary words as English, but a lot of them are related
nosit' = to wear (one of many meanings)
iznashovivat' = to be wearing out
iznosit' = to have worn out (perfective)
Modern Russians tend to simplify case use, since the literary cases are sometimes pretty esoteric
You need nominative, dative and accusative to be understood, and present, past and future tenses. You may not be speaking elagantly, but the meaning will get across. Word order pretty much same as English, intonation pattern a bit different. Russians run all the words in a sentence together, no sound gaps between when speaking. Stress is irregular, and declensions are often totally mystifying. Memorization required.
Aspect, voice and circumlocution are common. I once saw a book (Harvard press, IIRC) which discussed the 8,000 common irregularities in Russian. Orthography is phonetic. Of course, in speaking, some phonemes are occasionally omitted.

The acid test is whether you can learn to pronounce 'hello' = zdravst-vui-t'e
accent on first syllable, shorter colloquial forms are often used depending on relationship of speaker and listener.

First thousand words are hard, after that you get the hang of it. Ponyatno?

[This message was edited by Magistertc on Tue August 17 2004 at 04:19 AM.]

F19_Orheim
08-17-2004, 04:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt_Haddock:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AdmiralWarlord:
P.S. you will also learn that 99 % of American films/games have gibberish for Russian. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't know it, but to be honest I'm not surprised. I've seen it done with Spanish... hardly an unknown language in the US.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Swedish chef in the Muppet show is a disgrace http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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bazzaah2
08-17-2004, 05:27 AM
Just a couple of observations magistertc;

English has the widest vocabulary - some 500,000 words. Russian is about half that iirc; but the point is that both English and Russian are both highly promiscuous languages.

Word order is much more flexible in Russian than English (books are available on the nuances of Russian word order and it really needs to be understood to gain a halfway decent reading comprehension) and can be played around with to great effect and in ways that English simply does not allow. The basic sentence structure of subject-verb-object can be amended to object-verb-subject to change emphasis, though not meaning, since the form of object will (usually) change dependant upon the case that a transitive verb governs.

Noun and pronoun declensions are largely regular but verb conjugation patterns are a major pain.

Interesting that most (all?) Indo-european languages have irregular verbs equating to the English 'to be'.

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Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

Normally Spiny Norman was wont to be about
twelve feet from snout to tail, but when Dinsdale was depressed Norman could be
anything up to eight hundred yards long.