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Choctaw111
05-17-2008, 01:08 PM
Is this OT? I don't know, but I needed to say something.
There were some things that happened on HL today and I just wanted to know if there is an actual list of etiquette.
My general rule on HL is when someone initially engages an enemy, I will immediately take up a wingman position and make sure that no one sneaks up on them, and allow them to make as many passes as necessary till the enemy is shot down, or they run out of ammo, and if the enemy is not too badly damaged, I will finished them off. Today was quite different.
After I was diving in on a Ju-88, another person that was pursuing it (he had no idea that I was coming in with great speed) started to fire on it. He smoked the left engine and flew by it. The Ju-88 was still flying. I was still coming in hot, so I moved in, set the engine on fire and blew it's wing off. We then got into an argument as to who set it on fire. I felt really badly that I shot at it after he did (especially since he did get it smoking) and then was arguing as to who set it on fire. We did make amends on HL but things on HL today were just plain bad in general.
Normally I would not have engaged something that another person had already started firing at. Is there a "good" list of general rules to follow.
Of course there is outright "killstealing" ( I really hate using that word) where someone will shoot the fuselage of the burning wreck that is falling down to earth.
But what else could be constituted as kill stealing aside from shooting an obviously stricken plane that is doomed to crash?
I don't care about points, but it is a good way to keep track of what I have done in any given session (my memory is not that great...I would LOVE if it kept track of WHAT you shot down as well).
The person is question did shoot at the burning hulk of the Ju-88 before it hit the ground and got the points for it. In a way I was happy for him...after I had thought about it.
So how should it work, for those who play with honor?
He shot it first, even though I was diving on it first (he didn't see me). He smoked an engine and flew past, I continued my high speed pass and destroyed it. I should not have engaged it after he smoked it. That was wrong for me to do. He had crippled it.
Anyway, for those I may have upset today (some people were really upsetting me today also, let me tell you) I apologize, and am looking forward to much better days http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I love this sim and enjoy the time I spend on HL with others http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Today was just a bad day.

Choctaw111
05-17-2008, 01:08 PM
Is this OT? I don't know, but I needed to say something.
There were some things that happened on HL today and I just wanted to know if there is an actual list of etiquette.
My general rule on HL is when someone initially engages an enemy, I will immediately take up a wingman position and make sure that no one sneaks up on them, and allow them to make as many passes as necessary till the enemy is shot down, or they run out of ammo, and if the enemy is not too badly damaged, I will finished them off. Today was quite different.
After I was diving in on a Ju-88, another person that was pursuing it (he had no idea that I was coming in with great speed) started to fire on it. He smoked the left engine and flew by it. The Ju-88 was still flying. I was still coming in hot, so I moved in, set the engine on fire and blew it's wing off. We then got into an argument as to who set it on fire. I felt really badly that I shot at it after he did (especially since he did get it smoking) and then was arguing as to who set it on fire. We did make amends on HL but things on HL today were just plain bad in general.
Normally I would not have engaged something that another person had already started firing at. Is there a "good" list of general rules to follow.
Of course there is outright "killstealing" ( I really hate using that word) where someone will shoot the fuselage of the burning wreck that is falling down to earth.
But what else could be constituted as kill stealing aside from shooting an obviously stricken plane that is doomed to crash?
I don't care about points, but it is a good way to keep track of what I have done in any given session (my memory is not that great...I would LOVE if it kept track of WHAT you shot down as well).
The person is question did shoot at the burning hulk of the Ju-88 before it hit the ground and got the points for it. In a way I was happy for him...after I had thought about it.
So how should it work, for those who play with honor?
He shot it first, even though I was diving on it first (he didn't see me). He smoked an engine and flew past, I continued my high speed pass and destroyed it. I should not have engaged it after he smoked it. That was wrong for me to do. He had crippled it.
Anyway, for those I may have upset today (some people were really upsetting me today also, let me tell you) I apologize, and am looking forward to much better days http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I love this sim and enjoy the time I spend on HL with others http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Today was just a bad day.

DKoor
05-17-2008, 01:29 PM
Don't let that winds you up about playing online.
You probably wont be able to amass three or four IL2 sessions without someone complaining about something.

I rarely complain, and TBH I experience blatant KS, shouldershoot and all kind of idiotic behavior (yes, including respawning on a carrier and just idle there with chocks in at which point I actually must ram him :roll: ).

On all servers, one could be really amazed just how much it happens on "serious" or "realistic" servers.

But it's all right as long as you don't allow them to derail your online fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

Xiolablu3
05-17-2008, 01:32 PM
Ahhh, forget it mate.

Its just one of those disputes that can happen for all sorts of reasons.

I also had a bit of a go at someone today.

I was flying in my Bf109E and keeping out of trouble, zooming down, blasting a red plane, and zooming back up out of harms way. Intelligent flying always covedring my teameates and helping anyone in trouble.

Each time I damaged a plane badly, and he was smoking, I would leave him to inevitabl;y crash or limp home and I would still get the kill. But each time I put in the work and damaged someone, some bottom feeder would come in a shoot up the plane, denying me the kill and points.

Now this happens to me a lot online, but I usually let it go because there are plenty of honourable flyers who will see what I am doing and leave the enemy I just damaged so I get the points.

So, today, I didnt complain the first 4 times, but on the 5th in a row, I saw some guy chasing 'my' badly shot up smoking Yak and asked him in chat not to 'steal' it, as he was totoaly out of the fight and done for.

He shot it up anyway and complaioned back 'Well you should finish it off then'

I replied ' Whats the point of me wasting my ammo and putting my self in danger to finish it off when hes obviously done for anyway?' At the very least he has no chance of getting back into the fight, at berst he will soon crash.

He again said it was my fault for not 'finishing it'.

I just said back 'Ahh you will learn one day'

and left it at that.

These disputes happen all the time. I would just forget it and move on.

I am not going to waste more ammo and put myself into a dangerous situation just to finish off a plane that is already done for, just to get the points.

The ironic thing is, right after he chased this Yak and finished it off, a Lagg jumped him, and becasue I didnt chase after the Yak, I was there to clear his tail after he shot down 'my' Yak.

Ahh well. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ElAurens
05-17-2008, 01:36 PM
What DKoor said.

Don't let it get to you. All the time that chap wasted arguing could have gone into another sortie. In the end it's something we do for fun.
So try to keep it fun.

PF_Coastie
05-17-2008, 02:35 PM
With a bomber, I say all guns hot until it is dead...going in. Those rear gunners should not be toyed with by just one plane. The more the merrier IMHO.

With a fighter its a little different. A smoking engine is almost certain death in a fighter.

Bottom line, they are dead enemies. The other person should be happy you were there.

Now shoulder shooting and point whoring are totaly different subjects.

VW-IceFire
05-17-2008, 02:53 PM
Man I want to punch some people. If I could punch them through my computer screen I would http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You know I'd much rather if IL-2 or Storm of War or whatever did away with individual points. Its a team effort and there should be team points awarded. Or at least shared kills if nothing else. I fly two different ways these days:

1) The more effective method - team attack with co-ordinated wingmen on teamspeak. I know or partly know these people and am coordinating with them. One or two or three of us are attacking the same target (could be bomber or fighter) and will generally attack one at a time making passes from above. Whoever lands the killing shot gets the kill but ultimately the pressure is on and we're going to get the kill faster or with less risk because of our team effort.

2) The less effective method - flying with people that I don't know and am not or am barely coordinating with and thats where I'll attack and pick off targets as suitable but will not engage or generally will not engage aircraft that other people have shot at.

Choctaw, in a situation that you were in, already lined up on an attack run on a bomber...I probably would have done the same anyways and landed the killing blow. The other guy did some damage but if the bomber can still drop its bombs on target and time is critical then it needs to be down right away. If you did damage but didn't kill it and he had another shot no skin off of either of your noses.

Unfortunately I and you and everyone else has had to get really defensive above kills recently because people are deceitful (not in your situation at all) and will steal or otherwise abuse good sportsman like behavior.

The one that pissed me off yesterday was a guy in a Mustang (I was in a Ki-100) and during a pitched multiplane battle over the course of several minutes where he had attacked me unsuccessfully several times he stalled the plane and it flipped as he was pulling off the pass. Perfect shot for me so I roll over and try to put some bullets into him. And I would have succeeded in doing so except that the moment he stalled he then bailed out (didn't see it right away until after) and immediately hit refly. His response in chat was to the effect of "blah blah blah" "yo ho ho" or something else. Infuriating but I guess ultimately not worth expending too much time over.

But really...how low can some people go.

M_Gunz
05-17-2008, 03:04 PM
As long as you know this is a big step away from realism and not expect historic results, etc.

Choctaw111
05-17-2008, 03:05 PM
Up until a month or two ago, I haven't really been on HL in quite a while, and to see this kind of thing on the "Full Switch" servers kind of surprised me. I guess it happens everywhere though.
I didn't think anything of it when I destroyed the smoking bomber. That thing was firing at me the whole time.
Despite the fact that I was in my dive long before the other guy engaged him, I didn't think I should have broken off, and seeing that the damage to the bomber was only one smoking engine, I destroyed it. That bomber was still in action and on it's way to my base to bomb it after the other fellow had made his pass on it. Are bombers treated differently than fighters as far as etiquette is concerned? I thought they were till the debate between the other player and I started.
As I said before, I set it on fire, tore the wing off and the other player came around and put a couple rounds in it as it was spiraling down to earth, just to get the points. That made me pretty upset so I called him on it. That is was started the debate.
I wish I would have saved the track for that one so you all could be the judge to see if I had played honorably. That is what I strive for. To be the fellow that everyone knows to play fair.
I was so sure that what I had done was fine...until he took his "kill" back (even though I killed it), I called him on it, and he got upset. Then he had me second guessing myself as to whether my actions were in good standing or not.
I am a decent and honorable man, and somehow thinking that I have done something wrong, like killstealing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif, has me a little upset. I don't do things like that.

M_Gunz
05-17-2008, 03:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Choctaw111:
That made me pretty upset so I called him on it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably a mistake. Why do you care about score anyway?
The fun is in the shootin!

Pirschjaeger
05-17-2008, 04:01 PM
That didn't sound like kill stealing to me.

This is one thing I didn't like about flying online. Some are there for the arcade while others are there for the sim.

My rule is simple; do what they would have done 65 years ago.

Fritz

Freiwillige
05-17-2008, 04:12 PM
I always go the historical route. That is we are playing a WWII simulation to Simulate WWII! There are those that Sim for the experiance and there are those the Game the game lol.

Just look at it in the historical context like you did when you smoked that bird and let him wallow on home out of the fight. No need to risk your life to finish something thats already dead! And ignore the points they are just a dumb idea in a simulation.

Choctaw111
05-17-2008, 04:44 PM
You fellows are right. I should have been happy with the thought of knowing that I did well. Who cares if someone comes by and puts a few more holes in it...as long as I know I got it (the bomber anyway).
I suppose I should change my mindset on HL. I didn't used to think this way and would never have even "texted" the other player.
I don't even know how to look at the "Stats" page so the points have never really meant anything to me anyway.
For those of you that have flown in the same server as me, you all know that I am very courteous, and will type in "Good shooting" or something similar, when you shoot me down, and I will always type in a good ~S~ when I shoot you down.
Today was just really awkward in there...it's not even a full moon.

skarden
05-17-2008, 05:44 PM
I really dont see how you were in the wrong at all,I have to agree with coastie on this,to me bomber's are open targets till they're are going down if they are still on the way to a target.

After they'v dropped their bombs i thinks there's a little more leeway but if he's still flying along with smoking engine or just a fuel leak or the like then to me he's fair game,a flaming engine(or 2) on the other hand i would tend to leave it alone,as he's prob going down soon and if not well then I'll give a sulute and wish him good luck,unless like i said he's on his way to a target in which case all stops come out to prevent him from getting there.

Choctaw111
05-17-2008, 06:57 PM
This is unbelievable. Someone else accused someone of killstealing on the same server. I typed in the chat bar "As long as it wasn't mortally wounded, or going down in flames". Then someone chimes in, "That's twice today, Choctaw" thinking that I was the one that did it! Then the admin steps is and says that I have been accused multiple times of killstealing and tells me to "be careful". I wasn't even engaged at the time and was all alone getting some altitude. I did get some apologies for the mixup, but not from the admin though. Now I feel as though whenever I go onto that server (which is a good one and I like it very much) I will be under a microscope. What is going on?
I am now sure to keep tracks of every sortie I fly...just in case. Not that it really matters.

I wish I could talk to the admin of that server. I am not some punk who gets kills by doing that sort of thing.

Sirrith
05-17-2008, 07:08 PM
If only there were more players like you :P

I've seen it a few times and been wondering, what does ~S~ mean?

M_Gunz
05-17-2008, 07:10 PM
Salute!

mortoma
05-17-2008, 07:19 PM
The AI might be easy to shoot down but you don't have to put up with this type of carap. This is why I'm an 99.5% offliner. One of countless reasons........You might find me in a coop for a night or two every six months. That's about it.

mortoma
05-17-2008, 07:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Choctaw111:
This is unbelievable. Someone else accused someone of killstealing on the same server. I typed in the chat bar "As long as it wasn't mortally wounded, or going down in flames". Then someone chimes in, "That's twice today, Choctaw" thinking that I was the one that did it! Then the admin steps is and says that I have been accused multiple times of killstealing and tells me to "be careful". I wasn't even engaged at the time and was all alone getting some altitude. I did get some apologies for the mixup, but not from the admin though. Now I feel as though whenever I go onto that server (which is a good one and I like it very much) I will be under a microscope. What is going on?
I am now sure to keep tracks of every sortie I fly...just in case. Not that it really matters.

I wish I could talk to the admin of that server. I am not some punk who gets kills by doing that sort of thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Fly under a different name at times. That's what I'd do.

Korolov1986
05-17-2008, 08:03 PM
Simple - Don't fly there.

There are plenty of servers out there and if they want to alienate their player base, that's their problem.

stalkervision
05-17-2008, 08:52 PM
ahhh.. good old on-line play. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

couldn't take it in Battlefield 1942 let alone a truly serious game and excellent sim like Il-2. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ElAurens
05-17-2008, 09:01 PM
Every time I've gotten fed up with online I've tried to fly offline, but it is truly worse.

The AI are just so bad that I'd rather put up with the new crop of "13 year old Counter Strike players" and power mad server admins we have now.

stalkervision
05-17-2008, 09:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Choctaw111:
This is unbelievable. Someone else accused someone of killstealing on the same server. I typed in the chat bar "As long as it wasn't mortally wounded, or going down in flames". Then someone chimes in, "That's twice today, Choctaw" thinking that I was the one that did it! Then the admin steps is and says that I have been accused multiple times of killstealing and tells me to "be careful". I wasn't even engaged at the time and was all alone getting some altitude. I did get some apologies for the mixup, but not from the admin though. Now I feel as though whenever I go onto that server (which is a good one and I like it very much) I will be under a microscope. What is going on?
I am now sure to keep tracks of every sortie I fly...just in case. Not that it really matters.

I wish I could talk to the admin of that server. I am not some punk who gets kills by doing that sort of thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Fly under a different name at times. That's what I'd do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try this one.. "Ho Chi Minh" That was my moniker in BF 1942.

Every enemy who I killed truly hated being wacked by a commie.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

On my own side they use to say.."Look at that commie go!" Go HO! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/93/H%E1%BB%93_Ch%C3%AD_Minh_Official_Picture.jpg/225px-H%E1%BB%93_Ch%C3%AD_Minh_Official_Picture.jpg

Fly a Japanese plane and really piss them off! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Hay, Ho whipped the American's butts didn't he? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

stalkervision
05-17-2008, 09:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Every time I've gotten fed up with online I've tried to fly offline, but it is truly worse.

The AI are just so bad that I'd rather put up with the new crop of "13 year old Counter Strike players" and power mad server admins we have now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I ever go back to any online game it will be BF 1942. That game is just plain good old fun as long as their are no team back shooters around.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I especially love the "german secret weapons" section. I have the whole series but play this demo over and over again because it's the best. Oh but I love that german rocket belt.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

leitmotiv
05-17-2008, 09:14 PM
+1 With Stalkermeister on this. When I play, I like to concentrate on tactics and flying---not on personalities. That's why there are ranks, traditions, ROE, and tactics for the real flyboys.

stalkervision
05-17-2008, 09:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
+1 With Stalkermeister on this. When I play, I like to concentrate on tactics and flying---not on personalities. That's why there are ranks, traditions, ROE, and tactics for the real flyboys. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here Leit. I truly hate personality clashes in on-line games. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

stalkervision
05-17-2008, 09:32 PM
I would only ever ever consider it with Il-2 if someone could come up with a way to put a picture of "Ho" on a Jap <span class="ev_code_RED">anese</span> Rice burner plane for me. I'd call it "The Ho Chi Minh special" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Then both sides would try to shoot me down..

I'd also have to find A Vietnamese Il-2 server and I'm not sure they even like Ho anymore. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

leitmotiv
05-17-2008, 10:10 PM
Prevert!

eckhart1957
05-17-2008, 10:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Every time I've gotten fed up with online I've tried to fly offline, but it is truly worse.

The AI are just so bad that I'd rather put up with the new crop of "13 year old Counter Strike players" and power mad server admins we have now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif
That is exactly how I feel about it. This whole kill-stealing business and arguing about it sometimes really gets out of hand. I experienced a situation quite similar to Choctaw's story.
On a popular server, I got banned by one of those power mad admins.
Now I have some serious vision problems (older generation..half blind on one eye, the other is doing more and less ok) and I usually join fights because tracers are the only things I can easily see. I wait before engaging to get a clear feeling about the situation. So I bounced down on a fighter who visibly left the furball. Screaming down at 700 km/h I shot him up when I noticed that his motor had already stopped. Naturally I got shouted at by the guy who shot him up before (which happened to be an admin). Next furball, I noticed that one guy was spending all his ammo on another plane but got only a few hits and then left. GREY smoke (fuel)coming out and otherwise intact, so I engage him and shoot him down. The admin guy shouted again about a kill steal. I apologized and told him that this plane was still in the fight..."I don't have to argue with you and you will be banned"....In summary, 13 year old power mad admin...

Now we should get a clear definition what means killsteal:
A. obvious killsteal:
1. shooting down a burning plane
2. pilotless plane
3. plane emitting black smoke
4. shouldershooting while friendlies are still shooting at the target
B. borderline killsteal:
1. bouncing a disabled plane, gliding back home
2. shooting at a plane presenting significant structural damage but still maneuvering
C. no killsteal:
1. attacking a maneuvering plane after friendly attackers clearly left
2. shooting at a plane emitting white smoke (fuel)

I think something like this somewhat more elaborate should be posted in all servers to avoid this annoying problem.

This is still a great community!

Cheers,

Eckhart
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

ali19891989
05-18-2008, 05:22 AM
Discipline is not so great on that server but it's hard for one admin to keep control especially on full real with no icons etc. It's up to the player to show decency towards one another.

SeaFireLIV
05-18-2008, 05:24 AM
I find IL2 offline an incredibly good experience. I duuno how some of you fly or what you really expect, but when I fly offline I fly campaign, I use DCG for a more immersive dynamic experience.

There are many times I`ve flown online, and while it can be sometimes good, other times I breathe a breath of fresh air when I go OFFline and fight with friendlies and against enemies who just get on with the job. If an AI shoots a bomber, then I finish it off, I don`t get whines. If I finish a bomber and an AI finishes it off, so what? We, as a side killed another enemy!

When flying online and taking on a bomber, there should be no complaints if between you, you destroy the enemy bomber - you, together, beat the enemy.

Whenever I flew ONline I was DETERMINED never to look at my kill score- never. the first I would know that I was scoring high was when someone would pop in chat, "SeaFireliv, you`re smokin`! You getting a high score" or some such.

And I`d say, "What? Oh I had no idea." then forget about it.

If you get fixated on having a high score then that`s when all the cr@p about `you took my kill` begins when he didn`t.

They should get rid of the bullsh*t point system, it completely takes away the comaraderie of teamplay and how battles were fought in real life WWII.

Offline is better in cases like this.

slipBall
05-18-2008, 05:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They should get rid of the bullsh*t point system, it completely takes away the comaraderie of teamplay and how battles were fought in real life WWII </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

i200th_Sakagawa
05-18-2008, 05:53 AM
eheh thats why i stopped fly zeke vs wildcat cuz that servers are the best in uppset me hehe.jump know where to the place where FISC playing there noone will be piss off cuz POINTS or KILL.Choctaw i know You and know Stallion You are very nice guys.Sugesting not play there(thats what i did)cuz u'll go away from playing this sim again for long time.The kind of people who sitting there are away from honor and there everyone will shoot till You blow up or broke your wing even if you are faaar away from your base without fuel.There is no point to deal with this people m8.

julian265
05-18-2008, 06:24 AM
Big +1 to team points, not individual points.

At the very least it should be a server option.

ElAurens
05-18-2008, 06:27 AM
SeafireIV, I tried again the other night to fly an offline campaign, an old one from when we first got the A6M5. It brought home all my problems wit the AI on the first mission.

A P39 spiral climbed away from my A6M5. Imagine, a P39 outclimbinging a Zero. So I decided to play along because by this time it was so funny I had to keep going. As we passed 9000 meters he suddenly pulled straight up, went over the top, a maneuver that my Mitsubishi could not follow, and blew me to bits with one shot from his 37mm gun.

That's why I don't play the offline game.

Skoshi Tiger
05-18-2008, 06:46 AM
I try not to shoulder shoot as much as possible, but as I've become reasonably profficient at limping home with a badly damaged fighter (lots of practice), if it looks like a smoking plane will get away I'ld finish it off.

I've never heard anyone complaining about shoulder shooting when they've got an enemy on their tail and two or more friendlys are trying to get rid of it. In that case if the planes in your sights then fire!

I think that they should award partial kills when two or more planes put bullets on plane.

Maybe I wouldn't get 5 or six planes on my six if they realised they were only going to get 1/6th of a kill each!

Choctaw111
05-18-2008, 07:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
I would only ever ever consider it with Il-2 if someone could come up with a way to put a picture of "Ho" on a Jap Rice burner plane for me. I'd call it "The Ho Chi Minh special" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Then both sides would try to shoot me down..

I'd also have to find A Vietnamese Il-2 server and I'm not sure they even like Ho anymore. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll do it for you. Which one?

Choctaw111
05-18-2008, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eckhart1957:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Every time I've gotten fed up with online I've tried to fly offline, but it is truly worse.

The AI are just so bad that I'd rather put up with the new crop of "13 year old Counter Strike players" and power mad server admins we have now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif
That is exactly how I feel about it. This whole kill-stealing business and arguing about it sometimes really gets out of hand. I experienced a situation quite similar to Choctaw's story.
On a popular server, I got banned by one of those power mad admins.
Now I have some serious vision problems (older generation..half blind on one eye, the other is doing more and less ok) and I usually join fights because tracers are the only things I can easily see. I wait before engaging to get a clear feeling about the situation. So I bounced down on a fighter who visibly left the furball. Screaming down at 700 km/h I shot him up when I noticed that his motor had already stopped. Naturally I got shouted at by the guy who shot him up before (which happened to be an admin). Next furball, I noticed that one guy was spending all his ammo on another plane but got only a few hits and then left. GREY smoke (fuel)coming out and otherwise intact, so I engage him and shoot him down. The admin guy shouted again about a kill steal. I apologized and told him that this plane was still in the fight..."I don't have to argue with you and you will be banned"....In summary, 13 year old power mad admin...

Now we should get a clear definition what means killsteal:
A. obvious killsteal:
1. shooting down a burning plane
2. pilotless plane
3. plane emitting black smoke
4. shouldershooting while friendlies are still shooting at the target
B. borderline killsteal:
1. bouncing a disabled plane, gliding back home
2. shooting at a plane presenting significant structural damage but still maneuvering
C. no killsteal:
1. attacking a maneuvering plane after friendly attackers clearly left
2. shooting at a plane emitting white smoke (fuel)

I think something like this somewhat more elaborate should be posted in all servers to avoid this annoying problem.

This is still a great community!

Cheers,

Eckhart
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I ABSOLUTELY agree about a list like that for any server as to what is acceptable.
I thought shooting down a twin engine bomber with one lightly smoking engine that was still enroute to my base to bomb it was ok.
The fellow who had shot it first was still in the area and was going to possibly come back for another pass. At the time I didn't know. Man, I wish I had a track of that.

To elaborate on your list, there are two kinds of black smoke. When the engine is mildly damaged it will emit a small trail of smoke, and when the engine is in really bad shape you get the dense black smoke. If the dense black smoke is pouring out, you know for sure that the engine won't run for long and he will have to crash land somewhere, but with the SMALL trail of black smoke, that engine can run for a long time, and therefore, I think that the AC in question is still fair game.
These are all judgment calls that a responsible player has to make, and you know that SOMEONE on ANY server will scream "FOUL PLAY!!" if you shoot at a plane that they even put just a couple bullets into and not damaged it much at all.
Another thing to add to your list, and something another poster mentioned earlier...A plane that has an engine that quit running. If you see a propeller that isn't spinning in a single engine plane, the guy who shot it up did enough to it to earn the kill.
Along those lines, if an enemy bomber had already dropped it's bombs, is heading back to base, and you see that one of it's engines has stopped, is it "fair game"? There is no one else around (Maybe the original shooter ran out of ammo and RTB)
Now the same situation, but the enemy bomber is heading TOWARD your base to bomb it. SHOOT IT DOWN!!!

Does anyone here know the admin for Spits v 109s? I would most certainly like to talk with him and find out what is going on. Is he a sensible adult that may listen to reason. Posting a clear and concise ROE (Rules of Engagement) would sure be helpful.
The Full Switch servers are trying to emulate War as much as possible...but you would never hear anyone complain about getting help for shooting down a bomber in a combat theater, that's for sure. Was Killstealing even a word in WW2? Hopefully we will get KillSHARING in BoB.

Choctaw111
05-18-2008, 07:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by i200th_Sakagawa:
eheh thats why i stopped fly zeke vs wildcat cuz that servers are the best in uppset me hehe.jump know where to the place where FISC playing there noone will be piss off cuz POINTS or KILL.Choctaw i know You and know Stallion You are very nice guys.Sugesting not play there(thats what i did)cuz u'll go away from playing this sim again for long time.The kind of people who sitting there are away from honor and there everyone will shoot till You blow up or broke your wing even if you are faaar away from your base without fuel.There is no point to deal with this people m8. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right. I need to play on your OKINAWA_1945 server more often. I like it there, we just need to get more people in there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Choctaw111
05-18-2008, 08:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by julian265:
Big +1 to team points, not individual points.

At the very least it should be a server option. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

TEAM points. That is AWESOME!!! That would almost completely get rid of the "Look at me" attitude. It would turn into "Look at US" as a team.

DKoor
05-18-2008, 08:14 AM
I think there should be no "automatic-who-puts-the-last-bullet-kills" whatsoever.
When you land window pops asking if you want to claim some http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

Then we may, just as they did over 60 years ago, claim at least three times more than we killed... or so.

Will work for some guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif .

Dr2GunzOD
05-18-2008, 08:32 AM
To better address your concerns, I would advise discussing this with the admins at spits. Website is warbirdsofprey.org. Many times you can find someone on TS.

I will add that IMO spits v 109 and Zeke v wildcats are two of the best run servers on HL. I have found that the "new" direction that the servers have taken the last 8 months or so has been great. Communication is key. I would advise anyone flying on these servers to join up on TS. It can help eliminate misconceptions of events.

S

M_Gunz
05-18-2008, 08:48 AM
LOL, future 'realistic' sim (or server) should have the following:

After mission debrief where you claim your kills.
Having to wait for confirmation, maybe days later http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif though email would work.
Finding out you only got part of a kill or worse it's unconfirmed.

That should help perhaps explain some of why so many pilots weren't score-oriented.
It's the perks given IRL that really counted, Ace status was a ticket to bed-city on leave.

Skoshi Tiger
05-18-2008, 08:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
It's the perks given IRL that really counted, Ace status was a ticket to bed-city on leave. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yer! I get off Hyperlobby and tell my wife I just shot down 5 aircraft and it has completely the opposite effect!

And hanging around sleasy bars late at night telling the girls that I'm going back into action (and I might not make it back this time) is just out of the question! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

M_Gunz
05-18-2008, 09:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skoshi Tiger:
Yer! I get off Hyperlobby and tell my wife I just shot down 5 aircraft and it has completely the opposite effect!

And hanging around sleasy bars late at night telling the girls that I'm going back into action (and I might not make it back) is just out of the question! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A sim can only be so real and then there's hardware and operating system limits.

Choctaw111
05-18-2008, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dr2GunzOD:
To better address your concerns, I would advise discussing this with the admins at spits. Website is warbirdsofprey.org. Many times you can find someone on TS.

I will add that IMO spits v 109 and Zeke v wildcats are two of the best run servers on HL. I have found that the "new" direction that the servers have taken the last 8 months or so has been great. Communication is key. I would advise anyone flying on these servers to join up on TS. It can help eliminate misconceptions of events.

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was thinking about using their TS and figured it could solve many problems in that regard.

Jaws2002
05-18-2008, 10:16 AM
What A crazy furball last night on that Slugfest Map. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif 60+ planes in the air on a small map, half of them Spit Mk5 and the other half Bf-109F's.

Pure slugfest and a nice change in pace. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Choctaw111
05-18-2008, 11:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dr2GunzOD:
To better address your concerns, I would advise discussing this with the admins at spits. Website is warbirdsofprey.org. Many times you can find someone on TS.

I will add that IMO spits v 109 and Zeke v wildcats are two of the best run servers on HL. I have found that the "new" direction that the servers have taken the last 8 months or so has been great. Communication is key. I would advise anyone flying on these servers to join up on TS. It can help eliminate misconceptions of events.

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I got on TS and spoke with the server mod. He seems like a very nice guy. We talked about the "bomber incident" yesterday, and he says I did nothing wrong. Now I feel much better. We spoke about the different rules on the server. One thing he said, and something I never really thought about, is that keeping your nav lights on is cheating as some people with the hardware they have cannot tell what you are flying when you have your navs on. Anyway, there is a list of rules at Warbirdsofprey.org and bombers are fair game until they are obviously blown from the sky.
I engaged that bomber when it only had one smoking engine, and I tore it's wing off and set it on fire. That was completely "legal" and when the other fellow came back and shot the burning hull...THAT was killstealing, even though he shot it first but only damaged it. So all that fuss that was pointed at me...was the other guys wrongdoing.

Haigotron
05-18-2008, 12:23 PM
Alot of online FPS (Team Fortresss 2, BF2, Call of Duty 4) have a kill assist point system. So if you accidentally kill someone that another person was engaging, he will also get credit for the kill.

Is there a way to do this kinda thing server side ? If not, I sure hope BoB will have this feature, it would really make these kinda situations less of a problem for players.

steiner562
05-18-2008, 12:33 PM
Get rid of the point sytem and just put up a small little plane or star Icon for every confirmed kill and a half icon if you assisted in a kill,the scoring system in Il2 has always played into the hands of point hoars.

SeaFireLIV
05-18-2008, 12:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
SeafireIV, I tried again the other night to fly an offline campaign, an old one from when we first got the A6M5. It brought home all my problems wit the AI on the first mission.

A P39 spiral climbed away from my A6M5. Imagine, a P39 outclimbinging a Zero. So I decided to play along because by this time it was so funny I had to keep going. As we passed 9000 meters he suddenly pulled straight up, went over the top, a maneuver that my Mitsubishi could not follow, and blew me to bits with one shot from his 37mm gun.

That's why I don't play the offline game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can`t confirm your experience. I haven`t tried a zero against a P39 as I tend not to fly axis.

I don`t see much point arguing over it. It`s a case of which you`re willing to suffer most for your WWII flying/fighting fix.

You`ll just have to stick with the negatives of online over the negatives of offline. I don`t see how complaining about humans online is going to achieve anything much unless it`s just to blow off steam otherwise.

DKoor
05-18-2008, 01:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
What A crazy furball last night on that Slugfest Map. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif 60+ planes in the air on a small map, half of them Spit Mk5 and the other half Bf-109F's.

Pure slugfest and a nice change in pace. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Who w0n? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

DKoor
05-18-2008, 01:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Choctaw111:
I got on TS and spoke with the server mod. He seems like a very nice guy. We talked about the "bomber incident" yesterday, and he says I did nothing wrong. Now I feel much better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">We spoke about the different rules on the server. One thing he said, and something I never really thought about, is that keeping your nav lights on is cheating as some people with the hardware they have cannot tell what you are flying when you have your navs on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Anyway, there is a list of rules at Warbirdsofprey.org and bombers are fair game until they are obviously blown from the sky. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Makes sense, because bombers will in most cases just proceed to the target even if they are terminally damaged (on fire). He knows he's got nothing to lose since he's not getting home from that one...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I engaged that bomber when it only had one smoking engine, and I tore it's wing off and set it on fire. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, smoking bomber (one engine) usually makes it home online... heck he may have proceed to target bomb it, and still RTB. He'd probably have enough fuel to do that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That was completely "legal" and when the other fellow came back and shot the burning hull...THAT was killstealing, even though he shot it first but only damaged it. So all that fuss that was pointed at me...was the other guys wrongdoing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well... ain't that a surprise! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Believe me, coming from years of online experience, in most cases when someone is complaining in more or less rude manner about how other people play - is coming from people who don't care about rules much. It's a paradox I know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

That much I have noticed.

It's like complexes... or something http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif.

I_KG100_Prien
05-18-2008, 01:45 PM
I find it's easiest to just ignore what the point whoring airquake jocks type in the chat.

One guy got pissed at me on Zeke's during a fight-- I was in a Zero lining up on a Wildcats tail, and just as I squeeze the trigger some yay-hoo in another Zero swoops in from above... Right in front of my plane.

Needless to say he got a butt full of cannon shells and went down in flames..

Then he yelled at me for being a "team killer".

Could have turned into a stupid argument over chat, but it didn't.. I didn't indulge him with a response. Wasn't my fault he had no SA and flew right into my fire. But then again, he could have seen me 200m behind the Wildcat, not cared one bit, so to that I say: He got what he deserved.

Blutarski2004
05-18-2008, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
SeafireIV, I tried again the other night to fly an offline campaign, an old one from when we first got the A6M5. It brought home all my problems wit the AI on the first mission.

A P39 spiral climbed away from my A6M5. Imagine, a P39 outclimbinging a Zero. So I decided to play along because by this time it was so funny I had to keep going. As we passed 9000 meters he suddenly pulled straight up, went over the top, a maneuver that my Mitsubishi could not follow, and blew me to bits with one shot from his 37mm gun.

That's why I don't play the offline game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... Yup, IL2 offline is about as "historical" as "Crimson Skies". If only as much attention was paid toimproving AI programming as is currently paid to developing yet more eye candy.

stalkervision
05-18-2008, 03:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blutarski2004:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
SeafireIV, I tried again the other night to fly an offline campaign, an old one from when we first got the A6M5. It brought home all my problems wit the AI on the first mission.

A P39 spiral climbed away from my A6M5. Imagine, a P39 outclimbinging a Zero. So I decided to play along because by this time it was so funny I had to keep going. As we passed 9000 meters he suddenly pulled straight up, went over the top, a maneuver that my Mitsubishi could not follow, and blew me to bits with one shot from his 37mm gun.

That's why I don't play the offline game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... Yup, IL2 offline is about as "historical" as "Crimson Skies". If only as much attention was paid toimproving AI programming as is currently paid to developing yet more eye candy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

DKoor
05-18-2008, 03:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blutarski2004:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
SeafireIV, I tried again the other night to fly an offline campaign, an old one from when we first got the A6M5. It brought home all my problems wit the AI on the first mission.

A P39 spiral climbed away from my A6M5. Imagine, a P39 outclimbinging a Zero. So I decided to play along because by this time it was so funny I had to keep going. As we passed 9000 meters he suddenly pulled straight up, went over the top, a maneuver that my Mitsubishi could not follow, and blew me to bits with one shot from his 37mm gun.

That's why I don't play the offline game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... Yup, IL2 <STRIKE>offline</STRIKE> is about as "historical" as "Crimson Skies". If only as much attention was paid toimproving AI programming as is currently paid to developing yet more eye candy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>fixt

Dr2GunzOD
05-18-2008, 04:38 PM
Good to hear everything was resolved.

DKoor
05-18-2008, 10:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steiner562:
Get rid of the point sytem and just put up a small little plane or star Icon for every confirmed kill and a half icon if you assisted in a kill,the scoring system in Il2 has always played into the hands of point hoars. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>This is true.

alert_1
05-18-2008, 11:57 PM
Surviving the mission should be the highest priority on full switch servers. Let's says death kicking for single death or capture in map to map rotation timespan. Much less killstealing and much more realism!

general_kalle
05-19-2008, 12:28 AM
Killstealing is, as said, when you shoot a de winged or burning plane

maybe a smoking plane cant really do anything apart from land/ditch but its not "down" and therefore pray.
i know some people might not agree but to be honestly i will attack a plane even though its smoking.
if you dont the pilot would maybe suvive. And that is a realistic reason to shoot it down.

one should only complain if somebody shoots a burning or de winged plane that somebody else got.
otherwis its still prey.

well thats my idea.

DKoor
05-19-2008, 01:21 AM
From my own experience I cannot define KS as it appears to combine several possible situations... but sure as hell most people can recognize every KS action.
And TBH. Whenever someone call for KS he better show up with the track too.

BTW http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif a bit... some loco folk in Stuka just riddled me with rear gun at our runway - I was in Ju-88. It happened twice to me, I have tracks...
He also killed few friendly Messers while they attempted to take off.

But matter was resolved by swift Spits vs 109s mods action http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif .

Diablo310th
05-19-2008, 06:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
What DKoor said.

Don't let it get to you. All the time that chap wasted arguing could have gone into another sortie. In the end it's something we do for fun.
So try to keep it fun. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-19-2008, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
What A crazy furball last night on that Slugfest Map. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif 60+ planes in the air on a small map, half of them Spit Mk5 and the other half Bf-109F's.

Pure slugfest and a nice change in pace. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Who w0n? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


No one. Everybody got pwned at some point. It was hilarious. The resurrection of the good 'ol fish bowl map complete with mountains, valleys and a lake in the middle. The neutral base next to the lake looked like a true pilot cemetary with so many black smoke columns.

Standard procedure was;

1. Spawn and start eng
2. Take off the fastest way possible (across runways, taxiways etc,..)
3. Head to the center of the map (altitude optional)
4. enter a 10-aircraft furball
5. Shoot someone down
6. Saddle up again and get your engine smoked
7. smoking engine draws them like moth-to-flame
8. Get pk'd or lose a wing
9. Bail or corkscrew in a smoking hole.
10 rinse, repeat

It was great fun...for the first 10 minutes, then it made me appreciate FBDaemon, mission objectives and teamwork and tactical stalking.


As far as the original post (sorry for digressing choctaw), this stuff just happens. Always has and always will. Maybe because of my preference in flying high-altitude jugs, I'm just used to others sleucing the doomed smokers I send back down to them from the nosebleed seats.

But even if I'm circling at 5,000ft with a bad guy, if I'm not on comms, I just expect a B&Z FW (if I'm on blue) to come in and disintegrate the guy I've been working for the last hectic 45 seconds or for a low-flying Spit (if I'm on red, spits are the typical culprits) to put a few rounds into the flaming, smoking, pilot-less aircraft mere seconds before impact.

Sometimes it's very frustrating, but I find it much less so, if I'm on comms with some friendlies.

Points are meaningless. To the ones they really matter to, it's obvious in their behaviors (i.e. they disco after seemingly every kill to run check their new K/D, popping dead birds to retain that top spot in the rankings at all costs, leave completely if they get pwned or if there are strong pilots on the opposing side that might threaten their coveted stats).

Despite all this, I would take it anyday instead of the boring, repetitive, aggravating state of offline play.


TB

Poker_4H
05-19-2008, 08:21 AM
Choctaw .... I'm an admin on Spits vs 109's, AND on Zekes vs Wildcats.
I'm sorry you had an unfortunate experience, and am glad it is resolved.
I would recommend, and say this to everyone ... if you have an issue, post it on the Warbirds of Prey forums (www.warbirdsofprey.org), preferably PM an admin there, and we will do our best to sort things out.
Alternatively, get on our TS server, and contact us via that method.

Unfortunately, with trying to be the best, and, I hope, somewhat succeeding, we attract not only the good pilots who we want, but also a few turdlings who don't care how they act.

We want everyone to have a good time .. personally, I hate stats, and hate the fact that some seem to worship their stats .... but, many people won't fly a server w/o stats .. just the nature of the beast. Also, different people want different stats for different reasons.
I understand some prefer offline campaigns .. (personally, I prefer coop campaigns) .. but if you do want to fly online, help the admins by flying right yourself .. use peer pressure when someone gets out of hand, we do what we can, but we're not always going to be there.

lastly, as regards the Slugfest maps .... we do a Bomber Night on Friday nights ..and a Slugfest map on Saturday nights.... These maps are very different from the usual Spits vs 109 maps in the following ways:

Bomber Night - This map is INTENDED TO FAVOR THE BOMBERS ! .... in many maps, bombers are somewhat cannon fodder to fighters - we came up with bomber night to give mud movers a chance to fly large formations, with a reasonable chance of returning to base.

Slugfest - this was a response to bomber night - we decided to let the fighters just slug it out .. rather than the objective based maps we usually have. Slugfest runs 90 minutes and each side has 200 pilots ... run out and you're done.

BTW - stats are turned off for both Bomber and Slugfest maps.

Lastly ... maps are intended to match up fairly .. years assigned to planes are NOT a good indicator of plane match-ups.

S!