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TheGozr
11-22-2004, 04:16 PM
This plane need a serious reWork .
-----
The Yak 9U was the improved version of the Yak 9 fighter, in the words of German fighter ace Gerhard Barkhorn (301 victories), I fought against all types of Soviet fighter, including those supplied under Lend-Lease (spitfire, hurricane, P-40, P-39, P-51), and the Yak-9 was the best. In mock dogfights with aircraft supplied by the Allies, the Yak-9 bested all. In fact, the senior officer of the English No. 234 Squadron (P-51 squadron) James Eric Storrar preferred to fly a Yak-9 which was rotated to other pilots on a seniority basis. In the final week of the war a single Yak 9UT regiment destroyed 27 Fw 190s and one Bf 109 for the loss of two aircraft. During this period the Yak 9U averaged one kill for each 31 rounds of ammunition expended. The Yak 9U continued in European service after the war and was also employed in Korea. The Yak-9U was initially fitted with the Klimov M-107 engine, but problems with the engine led to the loss of the prototype in late February 1943. As a result, the Yak-9U retained the M-105PF engine. It also featured two UB 12.7 millimeter guns, as well as the ShVAK 20 millimeter cannon. The Yak-9U was regarded as equivalent in performance and handling to its American counterpart, the P-51D Mustang. Stalin did not make empty threats, and he rarely made a threat twice. Resolution of the defects became a top priority. They were fixed, and then Yakovlev and production engineers went on to add improvements. The result was the Yak-9U, where U stood for Uluchshenny Improved. The Yak-9U was difficult to tell from the Yak-9M from the outside, but it incorporated a wide range of small changes to improve performance and survivability. Over 3,900 Yak-9Us were built, the majority of them before the end of the war.-

If Oleg need real infos about that plane he can email me and maybe he can have a spin in a real one.

Luftcaca
11-22-2004, 04:48 PM
hmmm I dont know man...
I havent flew theYak 9U for a while...Im gonna fly it over Berling (well Yak 9UT) when Im gonna be there but...comparing the P-51 and the Yak 9U...I just dont like the sound of that...ok these were two single seated, single inline engine planes but...thats were the similarities end in my book...

I find it odd that a great experten of the Luftwaffe compares two planes that were meant for totally DIFF stuff; P-51, long range, high alt fighter with very good diving capabilities...Yak 9U, awesome climbrate, short range, good turning plane...

"The Yak-9U was regarded as equivalent in performance and handling to its American counterpart, the P-51D Mustang"

that call just bugs me...dont try to make me believe that the Yak 9U could outperform a Mustang at 8000m, but neither will a Mustang outperform a Yak 9U at 1000 m with 100% fuel load...

well all that to say that if you use the Yak 9U the way you would use a Mustang, you will end up in trouble and thats not the FM's fault... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p1ngu666
11-22-2004, 05:03 PM
the 9u is good against 109, p51, 190
yak3 and la7 are uttlery better, at everything

Luftcaca
11-22-2004, 05:15 PM
well if you try to test planes agaisnt each others, do NOT try agaisnt the AI!!!

you can own 262's in a I-153...

p1ngu666
11-22-2004, 05:47 PM
im talkin about onwhine.

the 3 and la7 outperform it in terms of flight, turn, climb, dive etc

and i cant hit with the 45mm, so with the ut, they outgun it too

Luftcaca
11-22-2004, 06:01 PM
well my post wasnt intended for you pingu http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
but I agree onwhine must be hard to hot a fighter with big cannons such as the Ns-37 and the 45 mm

p1ngu666
11-22-2004, 07:48 PM
37mm im ok with, just not the 9ut's one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
ages ago i took out 3 german planes with 3 rounds from a 9k http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

im fine with 9u vs ki84, but vs yak3 la7, there just better, 9u ingame atleast has no advantage over em
i wouldnt mind a better 9u, but id rather have the old rata fm back

VW-IceFire
11-22-2004, 08:33 PM
Nothing wrong with the Yak-9U from here. Its a fast, light, moderately well armed (depending on version) fighter. Its similar to the P-51 in performance but not in the same flight regimes.

P-51 VS Yak-9U at low altitude and I say the 9U is better.

Pingu is correct. La-7 is overall better.

Skalgrim
11-22-2004, 08:48 PM
one aces say that, other say that,

Chuck Yeager had say, dora was the best ww2 fighter,

why not model after Chuck Yeager opinion, he was too test pilot and know from what he speak.

and very important, lifert had only fly g6 against yak9u and yak3

when he had fly 109 with mw50 or c3 fuel like in game, his opinion would be perhaps other

g14 came first november 44 and, only few at the ostfront

Bogun
11-23-2004, 12:19 AM
Read my sig... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TheGozr
11-23-2004, 03:13 AM
Bogun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I want just to remind you that i have many hours on flying Yak9-U in real life.

Lazy312
11-23-2004, 04:37 AM
Most 9Us actually had VK-107 engines IRL.

I really like 9U in game but I think it is not a very good plane. You cannot outturn 109 when slow and you cannot exploit your high speed - controls become hard. Late 109 climbs better, dives better and is generally faster because of better acceleration even at low alts.

I'd really like to know why some pilots were so excited about this plane IRL.

IMHO Yak-3 is vastly superior to 9U im game.

robban75
11-23-2004, 06:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
The Yak-9U was regarded as equivalent in performance and handling to its American counterpart, the P-51D Mustang <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure why not? They were almost equally fast with the Mustang being somewhat faster at SL and at alt. Both had good control harmony. The Yak-9U was certainly more manouverable and it had a much better rate of climb at the lower altitudes, and this is the way it is in-game aswell. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Lazy312
11-23-2004, 06:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
The Yak-9U was regarded as equivalent in performance and handling to its American counterpart, the P-51D Mustang <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure why not? They were almost equally fast with the Mustang being somewhat faster at SL and at alt. Both had good control harmony. The Yak-9U was certainly more manouverable and it had a much better rate of climb at the lower altitudes, and this is the way it is in-game aswell. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The difference in game is - high speed handling. P51 has great one, Yak-9U has poor one.

Bogun
11-23-2004, 07:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Bogun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I want just to remind you that i have many hours on flying Yak9-U in real life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, you do not. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
I know of one flyable Yak-9U at this time (Mr. Doug Champlin's).
What you may fly is probably newly build Yak-9UM, which is unlike Yak-9U is of full metal construction, has Allison engine (instead of VK-107A) and new propeller and probably a two-seater with changed/improved aerodynamic characteristics. Plane is sufficiently changed for Oleg not to be able to consider its flying performance as a model for Yak-9U. I know of many tests, including "comparative" tests done in NII VVS (were its performance were compared to contemporary German and Allie fighter planes) and Oleg probably has access to them.
I also feel, that Yak-9U performance (especially maneuverability) should be slightly better, but this game is not about modeling planes according to what I feel (unfortunately). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
But, if you can share with us you observations €" it will be extremely interesting to hear all your finds.

JZG_12-Blitz
11-23-2004, 08:01 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

MOhz
11-23-2004, 09:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bogun:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Bogun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I want just to remind you that i have many hours on flying Yak9-U in real life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, you do not. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOLhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifLOL

Bogun
11-23-2004, 09:53 AM
Sorry if my English is lousy.
Mr. Doug Champlin does no let people anywhere close to the cockpit of his Yak-9U - only to look from the outside. It is unique plane - one of a kind, the only one left.

DIRTY-MAC
11-23-2004, 10:27 AM
I have to agree that the Yak9U doesnt live up to its name in PF

robban75
11-23-2004, 10:27 AM
Data for prototype Yak-9U

Max speed SL 600km/h
Max speed 5500m 700km/h
Climb to 5000m 4.1 minutes

Data for production Yak-9U

Max speed SL 575km/h
Max speed at 5000m 672km/h
Climb to 5000m 5.0 minutes
Turntime 20 seconds(Yak-9UT 21 seconds)

Data for production Yak-3

Max speed SL 550-565km/h
Max speed at 4300m 620-640km/h
Climb to 5000m 4.6 minutes
Turntime 19 seconds

Bogun
11-23-2004, 11:06 AM
Great quote robban75.
As long as Dora can maintain its speed 400km/h+ it will stay more maneuverable.
It is only if its pilot runs out of room to dive and its seed drops - he become easy target for Yaks. If you compare the two planes in IL-2 Compare €" you will see just that. Things get really bad for Dora if speed drops below 350km/h.

CTO88
11-23-2004, 12:02 PM
lol according to rechlin tests production-d9 also lost 15km/h.

test yak3 reached over 650km/h and 595km/h @ 0m. so called "production yak-3" reached 646km/h and 570km/h @ 0m.

same for la-7, runs 640km/h @ 0m but only 612-615km/h @ 0m. in game la-7 is much to slow, @ 1800m procula-7 runs 660-670 and not only 630 like in game. soviet planes are the only one that are simulated with production datas.

wojtek_m
11-23-2004, 12:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
Data for prototype Yak-9U

Max speed SL 600km/h
Max speed 5500m 700km/h
Climb to 5000m 4.1 minutes

Data for production Yak-9U

Max speed SL 575km/h
Max speed at 5000m 672km/h
Climb to 5000m 5.0 minutes
Turntime 20 seconds(Yak-9UT 21 seconds)

Data for production Yak-3

Max speed SL 550-565km/h
Max speed at 4300m 620-640km/h
Climb to 5000m 4.6 minutes
Turntime 19 seconds <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Robban, there were certainly some production quality problems in the soviet union during the war, but why do I only see you pointing those out towards the russian planes? There were huge quality problems in germany late in the war too, but I cant see this kind of data provided by you for the 'production fw190' for example... In reality every one plane was a bit different, many were inferior to the prototype, but there were also some with equal or even better performance, so there is no such thing as 'production data'. How do you want to model that? I think the way Oleg model planes namely according to prototype data is the best way it can be done.

p1ngu666
11-23-2004, 12:15 PM
yeah its manouverablity isnt that good, id go against 109s ok tho

MOhz
11-23-2004, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wojtek_m:
Robban,[...]but why do I only see you pointing those out towards the russian planes? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because German aircrafts are better in every single way and anyone who supposes otherwise is telling propaganda.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

robban75
11-23-2004, 01:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CTO88:
same for la-7, runs 640km/h @ 0m but only 612-615km/h @ 0m. in game la-7 is much to slow, @ 1800m procula-7 runs 660-670 and not only 630 like in game. soviet planes are the only one that are simulated with production datas. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, look at this. The Fw 190A-4 had 1750hp and managed 560km/h on that. The La-7 having an equal size to the Fw 190 Had 1850hp and should manage 640km/h on that power? Highly unlikely. Perhaps the La-7 test aircraft that used the M-71 engine could manage somewhere around 630-640km/h.

TheGozr
11-23-2004, 01:22 PM
Bogun
yes you are right it is the U-M series .

The maneuverability between the yak 3 and 9U are so close in RL that the pilot will make the difference.
For a test ,in game you can try to fight the yak 3 versus the 9T or 9.

robban75
11-23-2004, 01:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wojtek_m:
Robban, there were certainly some production quality problems in the soviet union during the war, but why do I only see you pointing those out towards the russian planes? There were huge quality problems in germany late in the war too, but I cant see this kind of data provided by you for the 'production fw190' for example... In reality every one plane was a bit different, many were inferior to the prototype, but there were also some with equal or even better performance, so there is no such thing as 'production data'. How do you want to model that? I think the way Oleg model planes namely according to prototype data is the best way it can be done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, the late war LW fighters were of poorer quality in the build compared to those built earlier in the war. But the groundcrew and pilots always did their best to maintain the machine and especially in its finish. Late war Dora's were heavily pollished with floor wax, and the only account that I have read about a Dora pilot commenting on the speed of his bird, was from Karl Heinz Ossenkop. He remembered having and indicated airspeed of 605km/h at "beerbottle" height. This speed is most likely with an ETC rack fitted, so had it been removed 612km/h would have been possible. And it matches speed charts for test aircraft. But certainly there were some lame ducks used by the Geschwader's aswell.
It just seems much more common amongst the Russian birds that planes were of very poor quality that's all.

Just so you know. The D-9 '44 is 14km/h too slow at SL so, I guess there is a lame LW duck in the game afterall. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TheGozr
11-23-2004, 01:42 PM
Some datas.

Yak-1 light 1942 M-105PF ShVAK [120]
weight in kg is 2780kg
turn is 17 sec.speed at 592 @3800m climb to
5km in climb to
5km in 4.7 min
--
Yak-9 1943 M-105PF hVAK [120] + UBS [200]
weight 2873kg, turn 17 sec. Speed 599 km/h @4300m
--
Yak-9T (Yak-9-37)1943 M-105PF NS-37 [30..32] + UBS [200..220]
Weight 3025kg, turn in 18 sec, speed 597km/h @3930m
--
Yak-9U 1944 VK-107A ShVAK [120] + UBS [2*170]
weight 3200 kg,turn 19.5 sec,speed 675 km/h @ 5000 m
--
Yak-3 1944 M-105PF2 ShVAK [120] + 2 UBS [2*150]
weight 2692kg, turn 17 sec, speed 646km/h @4100m
--
Yak-3P 1945 M-105PF2 B-20M [130] + 2 B-20S [2*120]
weight 2708kg,turn 19 sec,speed 646km/h@ 3900m

robban75
11-23-2004, 02:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CTO88:
lol according to rechlin tests production-d9 also lost 15km/h. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you know were I can find that test report, is it printed in a book? I'd like to get a hold of it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
11-23-2004, 03:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Bogun
yes you are right it is the U-M series .

The maneuverability between the yak 3 and 9U are so close in RL that the pilot will make the difference.
For a test ,in game you can try to fight the yak 3 versus the 9T or 9. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So have you had the chance to see one of these up close? Where? I'd love to see a Yak-9 someday. Its a neat fighter, had no idea about it 2 years ago, and now I find it very interesting.

If flying a late war server with only VVS vs Luftwaffe...the 9U is where I'm at. Great plane, very fast, very manuverable at slightly slower speeds, very agile plane but still tougher and more robust than the Yak-3.

jurinko
11-23-2004, 03:57 PM
do not forget that 9U had serious troubles with VK-107 engine. At 100% throttle, the engine overheated with rads fully open at level flight and the plane could not climb continuously just due this problem so climb times are rather theoretical.
It was faster than Jak-3 but Jak-3 was better climber and turner.

Maybe the guy from Bogun´s signature didn´t have to deal with Tempests or late Spitfires.

Lazy312
11-23-2004, 04:03 PM
The troubles with overheating were solved by modifications of radiators in december 1944. At that time Yak-9U was build for about half a year if I remember correctly.

I could name planes that were subject of problems like that for much longer time.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bogun
11-23-2004, 05:44 PM
Both Jurinko and Lazy312 are right - Russians did run into troubles with initial run of Yak-9U with VK-107A engines and with installation of new water and oil coolers (and some other improvements) those problems were solved in December of 1944.
During combat trials in 163IAP in October-December 1944 pilots flying Yak-9U shot down 27 Fw190A and 1 Bf109G while loosing two Yaks to fighters, one to AAA and four to €œnon-combat€ causes.

Vipez-
11-24-2004, 10:42 AM
guyes, remember most eastern front 109s in early /mid 1944 were still out-dated G-6s and G6-lates, as most G-10/G-14/K-4s were given to defence of reich on western front..

AS the situation got worse for germans with the growing number of late LA5FN, Yak-9Us/Yak-3s (late LA-5fn perfomance was pretty much on par on early La-7, as it was improved), so most german pilots flying that time early G-6s would probably naturally prefer a Yak-9U over his old G-6, I would assume.. though i would still stick with G-6, as atleast I could still outdive the vvs opponents http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Don't get me wrong, Yak-9U was great plane, i think its great plane in game as well, and I still outturn late 109s with ease (G-6/AS might be the worst opponent though).. atleast in 3.01..

TheGozr
11-24-2004, 01:07 PM
The Yak-9U introduced many aerodynamic refinements that allowed for greater speed on the limited power of the M-105PF-2 engine. In late 1944, a more powerful engine was introduced to the production line. Making 1,650 horsepower, Klimov M-107A (later designated VK-107A). Likewise, climb rate was greatly improved, up to 4,500+ feet per minute from sea level.

il2's yak 9U make 1500 hp's ...???...

The Russian loved the 37mm, it came from U.S Lend Lease P39's and P63's.
Not a lot was written about the planes but they did terrible damage to
Hitlers vehicles and multiengine planes.
Interesting that the USA feared Russia would use the P63's in Korea.
Still they had a very robust Yak 9U that easily could out dogfight the
Mustang.
It had a 1000 ft/min better rate of climb and similar speed.
Plus it had better Roll Rate and Sustained Turn Rate.
However the Mustang probably was better at the high speeds, where
intercepting and stable gun platform was its speciality.

Bogun
11-24-2004, 01:26 PM
Vipez- you is wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

At the end of the war there was not much of a difference between East and West. Anyway Germans were throwing everything they had onto both fronts. There were even 109E-4 flying versus Allies (famous German ace pick to fly it and gave more modern 109 to a new pilot, giving him chance on survival). Russians were fighting against and capturing all newest German birds €" G-10, G-14, A-8, A-9,F-8 and D-9.
Probably the only preference given to the €œhome defense€ were jets.

TheGozr,
Russians judged the maneuverability of only Yak-3 with VK-107A engine equal to that of Yak-9U and hence decided there was no reason to produce two of those planes simultaneously. Yak-3 was extremely light and had very short range €" having engine like VK-107A installed only made things worst in this respect. In the book by Stepanets A.T. €œYak fighters of the Great Patriotic War period€ ISBN 5-217-01192-0 the meter is covered in details.

Skalgrim
11-25-2004, 08:53 AM
the first g14 was use november 44 in jg51 and only few,

that means nearly 1,5 year have la-5fn and la-7 pilots fight against g6 and only 0.5 year against g14 or g10 that was almost only fly from rockies.

so was la-5fn/la-7 main opponent the g6


.

Sig.Hirsch
11-25-2004, 09:52 AM
G-14 was in november for other factory reasons,
G10 was in spring-summer 44 ,Dora in summer, K4 in october while La-7 was in Sept 44 , G6/AS was before http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Don't forget that even in 44 most of the planes in service were 42-43 planes , and not the brand new planes of late 43 and 44 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
LW could do 600 sorties when USAAF could make 12000 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (of course german aces were decreasing consistently)
For VVS it's about the same , they won more thx to the number , rather than thx to quality http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bogun
11-25-2004, 11:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skalgrim:
the first g14 was use november 44 in jg51 and only few,

that means nearly 1,5 year have la-5fn and la-7 pilots fight against g6 and only 0.5 year against g14 or g10 that was almost only fly from rockies.

so was la-5fn/la-7 main opponent the g6. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And for Germans - main opponents were Russian Yak-1, Yak-7, Yak-9 and La-5F...
Russians took it on and grinded down the brut of German Luftwaffe in 42-43, while mostly rookies were doing the fighting and dying. Germans did not choose to send rookies into combat €" they had no choice, they had to... They could have done what Russians did €" suck it up, rebuild demolished airforce while fighting superior enemy€¦

WUAF_Badsight
11-25-2004, 09:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wojtek_m:
Robban, there were certainly some production quality problems <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
the differences between prototype & production La's & Yaks are well documented

pointing them out would be absolutly necessary if they only used prototype data instead of production data

WUAF_Badsight
11-25-2004, 09:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
_ il2's yak 9U make 1500 hp's ...???..._
. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
it seems that the Yak 3 & Yak 9u are moddeled with the Vk105 & not the Vk107

which is a pity . . . . the Yak 9U had definate advantages over the 3

but not in FB . . . .

TheGozr
11-25-2004, 09:55 PM
WUAF_Badsight
I agree and it is a pity.
The Yak-9UT 1945 must have the VK-107A engine and look at the references same as the U with 1500 hp's??????...

we should start a pettition.



BTW in many occasions the production model were or are better that the prototypes. mostly the first built series .
We have the same problem in Motorcycles as well.

clint-ruin
11-25-2004, 10:45 PM
(Q): Where is this Yak3 with VK107 come from?
I found a posted screen shot from il2's official site, there it shows a yak3 with vk107 engine intake, I wonder whether it would become a flyable AC or AI in FB?
(A): All serial Yak-9U has additional airintake over the nose. Some series close to spinner, some like on our model.
All serial Yak-9U had VK-107A engines.
WEP was prohibited to use without special needs becasue of often oil leak from a propeller reductor at high RPM
Comparing to reality in IL-2 we had not restrictions for use the wep on different aircraft, so Yak-9U modelled with WEP but the power at this mode is combat (less then WEP). Its why this plane flyes slowly then should if to use WEP.
On a combat power Yak-9U never overheats in reality.
Please be sure that Russian WEP term isn't equal to US or UK terms of use.
In FB we did complete restriction with the modules of complex engine managment. So such thing allow us to fly on combat power for more longer without time overheating if you will control your engine right.
Ok, too much already said. It is still closed info
Link: 10/17/02 08:21PM

(Q): From the object viewer for La-7: "Absolute combat superiority over the latest piston engined German, English and American fighters at low and medium altitude."?
(A): I still think so. I'm sorry. And you should take in account that 1944 and 1945 year production La-7 were different. I don't like to discuss it right now. But after FB is released I will be able to discuss it and to show why this statemend is say 90% right.
Link: 10/03/02 08:03AM
(Q): Were the La-7 and Yak-3 "absolutely superior" to the Spit XIV, Tempest Mk V, P-51D, P-47M, 109 K-4 and FW 190 D-9 as you stated in the object viewer?
(A): Sure for La-7. Even possibly in many aspects better then Ta-152C
Just Spit IV is close to that thing and the whole term "superior" that include NOT only maximal speeds and climbs but a lot of other battle parameters, especially at low altitude.
Yak-3 VK-105PF2 - not at all.
Yak-3 VK-107 - complete superior over all in 1944 at low mid altitudes. But this plane we even don't plan to model becasue it saw so limited battle trials. Much more less then even serial Yak-9K.
Link: 10/03/02 08:03AM

Also interesting regarding DMs:

(Q): There are some discrepancies between the damage model of the different aircraft models. The engine of a Yak is possible to quit, but only when hit directly from ahead and only in very rare cases. I know that the cooling system of the 109 was very vulnerable, but was the Yak so strong armoured that it could take so many hits without damage to the engine?
(A): The engine modelled by 40 program modules. Probably you didn't hit the right part (simply thes dts don'e sho many things that are modeled inside the module of engine) As well as durability of VK engines was far more better than DB605 if to speak about common durability of different parts of engines. That is also modelled. But there are not big differences in each engine of the plane. Just some of 40 details has some differences in durability. But not in tymes - just +/- 10-20%
VK-105 and 107 engines were very strong to bullets, comparing to DB-605 that had some details very vulnerable for even rigfle caliber (Radiators of both was vulnerable, but damage of radiators in IL-2 is very simplified, except IL-2 plane itself).
In future sims (becasue we plan to continue with WWII era) we simply will modify in more complex side all the program modules that are about engines, radiators, etc....
IL-2 and then FB is the first attempt to make it so complex.
PS. Yaks has other points that are very vulnerable and average DM is far worse than 109...
Link: 08/29/02 09:14AM

p1ngu666
11-25-2004, 11:05 PM
clint, does that mean our 9u is too slow?

also, yaks engine when hit, often makes very little power, still work, but hardly keeps u in air..
others tend not to get this

clint-ruin
11-26-2004, 01:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
clint, does that mean our 9u is too slow? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Directly taking anything from Olegish to English can be tricky. The Yak9U and Yak3 seem very close in speeds and power in Il2c at least, and if we don't have the VK107 Yak3 then your inference may be right. That would definitely make our Yak3P a 3P and not the 3U/P line too [fair enough].

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>also, yaks engine when hit, often makes very little power, still work, but hardly keeps u in air..
others tend not to get this <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is - possibly - just an error in the way the DM states get drawn. I don't know what it's supposed to represent being broken. Whatever it is, it doesn't make any smoke, and it is vulnerable from the bottom of the engine extending through to the back of the radiator underneath the plane, at least from looking at what's being hit when this happens most often.

The "bullet through the front of the engine"-only damage thing wasn't true the last I checked it, but quite likely would have been before the complex DMs were done. Most inlines with the exceptions of some of the older planes [Lagg3S4, MC202, MiG3U, etc] die very quickly under even rifle cal AP rounds.

CV8_Dudeness
11-26-2004, 02:39 AM
hmmmm a Yak-3U

all metal

triple 20mm ShVAK

Vk-107 powerplant

*evil grin*

TheGozr
11-26-2004, 03:14 AM
Yes the yak9U is under modeled. and it was the cream of the cream til this days even the yak9-U-M surclass the yak3-M

Vipez-
11-26-2004, 04:26 AM
Bogun, I didn't mean the late LW fighters were not there, just meant that still in 1944 G-6 were the highest number of luftwaffe fighters, there was more G-6, than G-10, G-14 and so on.. much more..

robban75
11-26-2004, 06:13 AM
In what way is the Yak-9U undermodelled? In game it tops 590km/h at SL, climbs to 5000m in 3 minutes 50 seconds. It wasn't the best turning Yak. It was actually a poor turner when compared to most other VVS fighters, yet it does have a good turning superiority over the Fw 190(yeah In know, all planes turns better than a Fw 190).
If you fly the Yak-9U like a Fw 190D, you will dominate over the Yak-3 no problem. The Yak-3 is 10-15km/h slower than the 9U, and this is something that has to be used when flying against the Yak-3. One can't turn with a Yak-3 in a Yak-9U. Both have similar climbrates, so this means the 9U only have its higher topspeed to rely on. When fighting an opponent with superior manouverability, BnZ is highly recommended.

PE_Tigar
11-26-2004, 07:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
guyes, remember most eastern front 109s in early /mid 1944 were still out-dated G-6s and G6-lates, as most G-10/G-14/K-4s were given to defence of reich on western front.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why we have G-10s, G-14s and FW-190 A-9s in VEF2 to fight on Lvov map http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Back to the subject--I'm rather inspired to ask Oleg to model special deliveries of floor wax to Luftwaffe and improve late war German models performance. I'd also like to ask someone to explore the use of floor wax in VVS RKKA, maybe VVS airplanes could benefit from some waxing too...

Lazy312
11-26-2004, 08:45 AM
Robban: "If you fly the Yak-9U like a Fw 190D, you will dominate over the Yak-3 no problem. The Yak-3 is 10-15km/h slower than the 9U, and this is something that has to be used when flying against the Yak-3. One can't turn with a Yak-3 in a Yak-9U. Both have similar climbrates, so this means the 9U only have its higher topspeed to rely on. When fighting an opponent with superior manouverability, BnZ is highly recommended."

IMHO the difference in speed is too small and at high speed controls become stiff.. in this way Yak-9U simply cannot be compared with Dora.

Sig.Hirsch
11-26-2004, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipez-:
Bogun, I didn't mean the late LW fighters were not there, just meant that still in 1944 G-6 were the highest number of luftwaffe fighters, there was more G-6, than G-10, G-14 and so on.. much more.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The opposite is true too , they had much more Yak-9 , 1B Lagg etc.. than Yak 3 and La-7 and so on ... much more ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TheGozr
11-26-2004, 01:57 PM
3.02b version yak9U is porked.
yak 9u was at list 50 km/h faster.

Actually the yak9U was a good turner fighter as well. kill the yak 3 at higher altitudes.

dragonhart38
11-26-2004, 02:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Luftcaca:
hmmm I dont know man...
I havent flew theYak 9U for a while...Im gonna fly it over Berling (well Yak 9UT) when Im gonna be there but...comparing the P-51 and the Yak 9U...I just dont like the sound of that...ok these were two single seated, single inline engine planes but...thats were the similarities end in my book...

I find it odd that a great experten of the Luftwaffe compares two planes that were meant for totally DIFF stuff; P-51, long range, high alt fighter with very good diving capabilities...Yak 9U, awesome climbrate, short range, good turning plane...

"The Yak-9U was regarded as equivalent in performance and handling to its American counterpart, the P-51D Mustang"

that call just bugs me...dont try to make me believe that the Yak 9U could outperform a Mustang at 8000m, but neither will a Mustang outperform a Yak 9U at 1000 m with 100% fuel load...

well all that to say that if you use the Yak 9U the way you would use a Mustang, you will end up in trouble and thats not the FM's fault... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep both aircraft were meant to peform different roles. Can't really compare them to each other.
Perhaps Barkhorm was referring to his experience battling the Yak and the 51 at low altitude where I could see the YAK 9 being superior. This wouldn't be the case at 23000 feet +

Bogun
11-26-2004, 06:41 PM
Finally we all talk the same language. Of course you are correct Dragonheart. Discussions on €œwhat aircraft is superior€ are driving me and many others nuts, but they are not going to disappear. €œSuperior€ at what? It would have been laughable if someone suggest to use Yak-3 as high altitude, long range escort or P-47 as low altitude air superiority fighters €" won€t happen, they just not designed to fulfill those roles€¦
When Russians needed to design long range escort (and finally have enough resources for that) they got La-9 and La-11. Still due to limitations of their engines those superb planes were not equal to Western fighters at high altitude. When Western Allies recognized the need for light low-mid altitude fighters the line of thoughts was exactly parallel to Russian €œlightest airframe mated to most powerful engine€ €" hence F8F Bearcat and Hawker Sea Fury. Well, €œlightest airframe€ is relative in those to cases. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now, what we have in the game with Yak-9U is a little strange.
Max. power VK-107A engine develop at 3200 rpm
Max. power VK-105PF2 engine develop at 2700 rpm
Well, the tachometr in the cockpit of Yak-9U does not go over 2700rpm, but I had no problem reaching 575km/h at sea level and 675 at 5000m altitude on Crimea map. I guess €" this is just a bug, and small bag at that €" engine gives what it suppose to, but the tachometer shows wrong rpms.

For your viewing pleasure I compiled from different sources the following data about Klimov€s engines:
-------------
VK-105PF2 (late Yak-9€s, Yak-3€s)
Weight - 640kg
Take-off power - 1290 hp @ 0 m (@2700 rpm, @1100 mm.Hg.)
Nominal power - 1240 hp @ 2200 m (@2700 rpm, @1100 mm.Hg.)
Nominal power - 1240 hp @ 2000 m (@2700 rpm, @1100 mm.Hg.)
Nominal power - 1180 hp @ 2700 m
Nominal power - 1050 hp @ 4000 m
Nominal power - 1050 hp @ 5000 m
Nominal power - 940 hp @ 6000 m
Nominal power - 820 hp @ 6500 m
Nominal power - 710 hp @ 7800 m
-------------
VK-107A (Yak-9U, Yak-9UT)
Weight - 765kg
Take-off power - 1650 hp @ 0 m (@3200 rpm, @1100 mm.Hg.) 30 sec.
Combat power - 1600 hp @ 0 m (@3200 rpm)
Combat power - 1660 hp @ 1800 m
Combat power - 1480 hp @ 2700 m
Combat power - 1520 hp @ 4300 m
Combat power - 1420 hp @ 5000 m
Combat power - 1270 hp @ 6000 m
Nominal power - 1500 hp @ 0 m (@3000 rpm, @1060 mm.Hg.)
Nominal power - 1550 hp @ 1200 m (@3000 rpm, @1060 mm.Hg.)
Nominal power - 1450 hp @ 3800 m (@3000 rpm, @1060 mm.Hg.)
Nominal power - 1260 hp @ 5000 m
Nominal power - 1100 hp @ 6000 m
Nominal power - 970 hp @ 7000 m
Nominal power - 830 hp @ 8000 m
-------------

Also to finally burry an erroneous assumption about the performance of Yak-9U here is an exert from Stepanets A.T. €œYak fighters of the Great Patriotic War period€ ISBN 5-217-01192-0
-------------
? сµÑ€¸'нÑ"Ñ... с?молµÑ"?Ñ... ²Ñ"¿ÑƒÑº? ´µº?бря 1944³. ¸ ¿о綵
осно²н?я Ñ"?сÑ"ÑŒ ´µÑ"µºÑ"о² о¿Ñ"Ñ"но³о ¸ ¿µÑ€²Ñ"Ñ... сµÑ€¸'нÑ"Ñ... с?молµÑ"о²
бÑ"л? усÑ"Ñ€?нµн?.
ИÑ"л¸ ÑƒÑÑ"?но²лµнÑ" но²Ñ"µ ²о´о- ¸ м?слоÑ€?´¸?Ñ"оÑ€Ñ" (сооÑ"²µÑ"с-
Ñ"²µнно Ñ"¸¿о² 728 ¸ 726) ¸ у²µл¸Ñ"µнÑ" ¿Ñ€оÑ...о´нÑ"µ сµÑ"µн¸Ñ Ñ"уннµ-
лµ' Ñ€?´¸?Ñ"оÑ€о² (²Ñ"соÑ"? Ñ"уннµля ²о´оÑ€?´¸?Ñ"оÑ€? у²µл¸Ñ"µн? н?
²Ñ...о´µ ´о 300 мм ¸ н? ²Ñ"Ñ...о´µ ´о 100 мм), ² Ñ€µзулÑŒÑ"?Ñ"µ Ñ"µ³о
Ñ"µм¿µÑ€?Ñ"урнÑ"' Ñ€µ¶¸м 'œ" зн?Ñ"¸Ñ"µлÑŒно улуÑ"ш¸лся ¸ н? ²ÑµÑ... Ñ€µ-
¶¸м?Ñ... Ñ€?боÑ"Ñ" ´²¸³?Ñ"µля, ²ºлÑŽÑ"?я ¸ Ñ€µ¶¸м боµ²о' моÑ"носÑ"¸
(3200 об/м¸н), ¿Ñ€?ºÑ"¸Ñ"µÑº¸ н?Ñ...о´¸лся ² ´о¿ÑƒÑÑ"¸мÑ"Ñ... ¿Ñ€µ´µл?Ñ....
СÑ"?л¸ ²озмо¶нÑ" н?боÑ€ ¿оÑ"олº? ¿Ñ€¸ м?ºÑ¸м?лÑŒно' сºоÑ€о¿о´Ñ*-
µмносÑ"¸ ¸ ³оÑ€¸зонÑ"?лÑŒнÑ"' ¿олµÑ" н? м?ºÑ¸м?лÑŒно' сºоÑ€осÑ"¸ бµз
¿µÑ€µ³Ñ€µ²? ´²¸³?Ñ"µля ² сÑ"?н´?Ñ€Ñ"нÑ"Ñ... ?Ñ"мосÑ"µÑ€нÑ"Ñ... усло²¸ÑÑ... н?
ном¸н?лÑŒно' моÑ"носÑ"¸ ´²¸³?Ñ"µля ¿Ñ€¸ ¿оло¶µн¸¸ з?слоноº ²о´о-
¸ м?слоÑ€?´¸?Ñ"оÑ€о² "¿о ¿оÑ"оºÑƒ".
--------------
My translation:
--------------
On serial aircraft circa December 1944 and later main defects of the prototype and first serial planes were resolved.
New water and oil radiators were installed (respectively type 728 and 726) the circumferences of the radiator tunnels was increased (the height of the water radiator tunnel was increased to 300mm in the intake and to 100mm on exit), as a result the temperature regime of the engine significantly improved on all regimes, including combat regime (3200rpm) which came into within acceptable limits.
Climb to a ceiling at maximal climb speed and horizontal flight at maximal speed in standard atmospheric conditions at nominal power without engine overheating become possible with water and oil radiators settings €œalong the flow€.
--------------

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CV8_Dudeness:
hmmmm a Yak-3U

all metal
triple 20mm ShVAK
Vk-107 powerplant

*evil grin* <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the last - Yak-3U was not it.
This plane was officially called Yak-3 VK-107A of full metal construction and it had just two 20mm cannons. Only 48 made in 1945-46.
But real Yak-3U was better! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Imagine:
Empty weight €" 2273kg
Takeoff weight €" 2792kg
Wing area €" 17.15sq.m
Engine
Radial ASh-82FN €" 1850hp (same as on La-7!)
Max speed at 6100m €" 705km/h.
Climb to 5000m €" 4 min.
2 x 20mm B-20s cannons with 120 round per cannon
Powerload €" 1.51kg/hp
Wingload €" 162.8kg/sq/m
--------------
*evil grin*

To bad €" it came to late, there was no need for props anymore €" the jet age was there€¦ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

TheGozr
11-26-2004, 09:17 PM
The champion of climb rate and maneuverability alias the 9U is dead on the 3.02 bm version. a pitty.
Very hardly do 540/560 km/h SL.
Overheat quite heasly but cooloff as well easly.
Sloggy side too.never had that on the real one.this bouncing effect make me think sometime that i'm on boat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bogun
11-27-2004, 10:37 AM
TheGozr,
Whatever you are doing while testing Yak-9U in the game - there is obviously something wrong. I had no problem reaching 575km/h at sea level and 675km/h at 5000m altitude on Crimea map, with %100 fuel and default load.
PM me with your e-mail and I will send you the tracks.

TheGozr
11-27-2004, 11:03 AM
gozr@speakeasy.net


I'm really interested to see this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif thx

VW-IceFire
11-27-2004, 01:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
The champion of climb rate and maneuverability alias the 9U is dead on the 3.02 bm version. a pitty.
Very hardly do 540/560 km/h SL.
Overheat quite heasly but cooloff as well easly.
Sloggy side too.never had that on the real one.this bouncing effect make me think sometime that i'm on boat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you doing this on the Crimea map? You have to use the Crimea map to do proper standardized testing.

TheGozr
11-27-2004, 01:55 PM
ok lets me try. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aaron_GT
11-27-2004, 02:34 PM
"Back to the subject--I'm rather inspired to ask Oleg to model special deliveries of floor wax to Luftwaffe and improve late war German models performance. I'd also like to ask someone to explore the use of floor wax in VVS RKKA, maybe VVS airplanes could benefit from some waxing too..."

Are you saying that Luftwaffe dancehalls are undermodelled? :-)

TheGozr
11-27-2004, 03:08 PM
ok so as i was saying earlier the yak9U is porked.
Crimea map 200 m altitude clear weather, 9 am, 50% gas.
560km/h max and sometime bearly 570 on slight dives. than at 520 km/h at 200 m doing a strong climb t il 1350m at arriving point of 70 km/h.
It's ridiculous . Not talking about the overheatings as well..

595/600 km/h 100 % gas is clearly not possible.

TheGozr
11-27-2004, 03:17 PM
In 1944 Yakovlev's design bureau developed a new modification of Yak-9, the Yak9U (U or "Uluchshenny", "Improved"). It was a new aircraft, very close in arrangements to Yak-3. The initial production of the Yak-9U used the M-105PF engine until the bugs were worked out of the 1650 horsepower M-107 engine. The Yak-9U featured a number of aerodynamic improvements, such as moving the oil cooler from the nose to the left wing and placing the cocpit even farther back. A new propeller was also fitted. Armament was a 20 millimeter or 23 millimeter cannon firing through the prop spinner, and two 12,7 millimeter machine guns. The Yak-9U was a highly effective and extremely maneuverable fighter, with a speed of 713 km/h at an altitude of 5600 meters. Increased availability of aviation-grade metals late in the war allowed the Yak-9U to receive an all-metal wing and metal skinning overall. This variant was known as the Yak-9UT.

There is no dought in my mind that they modeled the first yak9U with M-105PF engine and all the troubles.
So why the UT perform as bad? if they want the Yak9U to be the first model the UT must be better with no doughts.

BTW
One engine-mounted 20-mm MP-20 cannon;Two 12.7-mm (0.5-inch) UBS machine guns;
Two 220-pound bombs on underwing racks

clint-ruin
11-27-2004, 05:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
There is no dought in my mind that they modeled the first yak9U with M-105PF engine and all the troubles.
So why the UT perform as bad? if they want the Yak9U to be the first model the UT must be better with no doughts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for your work on this so far Gozr. I was wondering if you had any scanned performance curves - turn vs alt, climb vs speed, and so on, that we might be able to try to reproduce and see if anything else is off in either direction. Might as well submit off a few things on this plane as one I think. Some of the quotes from accounts that just mention relative or subjective terms don't provide us with a hard figure to try to match in the game.

Oleg mentioned something a while ago about the Yak-9s and 3s being confused with Yak-1s and 7s in terms of carrying ground ordinance, I'll take a look and see if I can find the exact quote.

I think that Oleg probably knows very well how some of the later 'tuned' marks of these planes performed. The trouble is that if even the 105PF version causes uber-plane whines then imagine the forums after the arrival of a fully tuned VK107 version :>

Bogun
11-27-2004, 07:17 PM
TheGozr, you should have both tracks by now.
As I said earlier - there is no problem with Yak-9U speed whatsoever. I easily reached 580km/h at 30m and 685km/h at 5000m. The only problem I see is purely cosmetic - the tachometer is showing 2700rpm max, like it should if Yak-9U had VK-105PF2 engine installed. But this version of Yak-9U was not in production, so I believe this is just an error, an insignificant error.

TheGozr
11-28-2004, 12:59 AM
http://www.french.themotorhead.com/il2/images/arts/560gage.jpg
Your run.

yes i got them thx and i looked at them but sorry your speed is 560kmh at 30 m and a speed of 520 at 5000m.
Of course this is on full real setup.

In the other hand i did 570km/h @ 20 m and 560km/h @ 5000m .. ?

I needed to convert the old TRK files to new NTRK files.

But tell me more about it.

clint-ruin
11-28-2004, 01:22 AM
Just to make sure - Gozr are you running these tests at the correct mix and charger settings on the Crimea map, 12 midday? What radiator settings are you using in your tests? You should also definitely read your speed either from the TAS guage in the ctrl-F1 cockpit view, or from devicelink output, rather than go by IAS from the speedbar.

TheGozr
11-28-2004, 01:26 AM
Actually i'm looking at the speed gage.
at 5000m using no cockpit view i do 730+ km/h
at SL i do 590 km/h according to the no cockpit view.
That case i can do 800 km/h on a p51...???

TheGozr
11-28-2004, 01:29 AM
I can't look at the ctrl-F1 cockpit view it's too painful but about the devicelink output this maybe a good thing. Do you have any infos or the "How to do " with this devicelink .

Thank's you all for your efforts.

TheGozr
11-28-2004, 01:51 AM
Same with stalling i'm testing the stalls.

Stall: real yak 9U is:

164.8 km/h clean Stall

129.6km/h dirty Stall

TheGozr
11-28-2004, 01:57 AM
btw in the datas :

Yak-3 1944 /M-105PF2/ShVAK [120] + UBS [200]
Yak-3 1944 /M-105PF2/ShVAK [120] + 2 UBS [2*150]
Yak-3P 1945/M-105PF2/B-20M [130] + 2 B-20S [2*120]
Yak-3 1946/VK-107A/B-20M [120] + B-20S [120]

The newest Yak3(Yak-3U 1945 ) with the 1946/VK-107A engine had a max speed of 706 km/h @5900 m

Bogun
11-28-2004, 10:53 AM
TheGozr,

I tought you knew €" the TAS speed in IL-2 shows ONLY on the gauge in no-cockpit mode.
But that€s how you test speed:
1. Crimea map.
2. 12 o€clock.
3. No €œWind & Turbulence€
4. €œComplex engine management€.
5. No cockpit.

Not sure what device link is shoving and how to use it.

Yak-3U is NOT the one with VK-107A engine. This is an error often repeated in Western literature. Whatever source you are using €" is wrong.

Official designations for Yak-3 with VK-107A engines were:
1. Yak-3 VK-107A of mixed construction (смµÑˆ?нно' ºонсÑ"руºÑ"*¸¸). One made in 1944.
2. Yak-3 VK-107A with metal wing. Small series (about 75) in 1946.
3. Yak-3 VK-107A full metal (Ñ"*µлÑŒномµÑ"?лл¸Ñ"µÑº¸'). Small series (40 in 1945 and 8 in 1946).

There was one Yak-3U made €" it was called Yak-3U ASh-82FN. Only one made. I posted about it in this thread. It becomes an ancestor of Yak-11 (with different engine).

There were only 197 of the first Yak-3 produced with one 20mm cannon and one 12,7mm machinegun.
The rest of 4000+ Yak-3 had one cannon and two 12,7mm machineguns.

BigganD
11-28-2004, 11:02 AM
Any proof like statistic data about the Yak9u?
so far its fast climbs good and maneuverability is great.

WWMaxGunz
11-28-2004, 11:12 AM
Years ago Oleg posted about a Yak 9 sent to compete with other fighters in tests in
Italy post war. Was that a Yak 9D or Yak 9DD? Why that and not Yak 9U or Yak 3?

clint-ruin
11-28-2004, 12:34 PM
As far as I know those tests were done with a visiting VVS squad that flew over to bases shared with 51/47 squads for ops in the Med sector. The reason they used the DD was because no other yaks had the range to get there otherwise. If anyone knows more please post about it - all I know is fragments of reports saying the Yak9DD - the heaviest version made - absolutely dominated over the 51/47 in the low/mid alt dogfights they played with out of combat. Not aware of any hard data that came out of that fly-off but if anyone has any I'd love to see it.

TheGozr - you can find a utility that makes Devicelink reading nice and simple [or at least, simpler] over here:

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=012653

The reason people are asking for Crimea map, TAS readings is because this is the closest we have to a 'standard' atmosphere in the game, apparently. Maps with different temperature and other settings will obviously produce different results. The speedbar and cockpit guages are only going to be near-accurate, whereas devicelink and TAS output pretty much show you the exact figure the game is using in its own internal calculations for the planes speed and other parameters.

TheGozr
11-28-2004, 12:37 PM
Interesting.
An experimental Yak3 was with VK-108W-engine (looks like employing 3 rows of cylinders!); Top speed 745km/h; one 20mm cannon.

Those data represent the yak 3U used the
VK-107(1650 hp ) no VK-107A(1650/1700hp)

It's interesting that you say that the yak3 is the ancester of the yak11 i would say that the yak 3 is the ancester of the futur generation as yak 15 ( feather ) using the yak 3 fuselage and became one of the first jet and giving place to teh yak 23 and on.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif here more (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/il2/viewtopic.php?t=91)

TheGozr
11-28-2004, 12:46 PM
Yes we use gage because it's what we used it is "indicated speed"
I did it on crimea map weather/good time/9am 20~30 m altitude
gas packed to 100%, 100~110% throtle until engine overheated.

The power of the yak9U over his ennemy is that it could fight full throtle and not overheating.It was dominating because this was a major factor.

Bogun
11-28-2004, 01:06 PM
Gozr,

There was no such thing at Yak-3U with VK-107 engine. Period.
Yak-3U was the plane with ASh-82FN radial engine (1850hp, same as on La-7).
If you like to repeat an error, be my guest. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If you read what I said, you will see €" Yak-3U was ancestor of Yak-11, but yes, first Yak jet fighters were also direct descendents of full metal Yak-3 line.

I don€t know why you are doing it in ORR. The discussion is pointless. There is actually no discussion at all. Let€s find something more interesting to do.

TheGozr
11-28-2004, 01:19 PM
Teasing you .. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
But yes the yak3 and UTI are very different looking for shure and yes the U is the daddy of the 11.
the Yak-3: Yak-3/VK-107A: about 100 built, in operation 1945; Yak-3/VK-108: experimental and fastest Yak-3 aircraft with VK-108 engine, first flown 19 December 1944, demonstrated a maximum speed of 463 mph (745 km/h) at 19,685 ft (6,000 m);

Actually there a differnece between the Yak 3U and Yak-3UTI developed as conversion trainer in late 1945 with ASh-21 radial engine, became the Yak-11 later on.

Bogun
11-28-2004, 01:25 PM
Same place:
"Stepanets A.T.
Yak fighters of the Great Patriotic War period
ISBN 5-217-01192-0" - most complete and accurate source of info on all fighters designed by Yakovlev design bureau during WWII.

If you speak Russian - I may forward you the test version of it.

TheGozr
11-28-2004, 02:05 PM
Yes please send it i can translate it.
Send me the yak3U not yak3 UTI
thx http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
and both had radial engines. correct

Bogun
11-28-2004, 04:14 PM
There was no such thing as Yak-3 UTI http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and consequently it didn€t have radial engine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Doc is on its way. Its about all Yakovlev€s fighters, not just Yak-3U. Their development, testing, etc. BTW, Sepanets was chief test engineer of Yakovlev€s design bureau during WWII.

TheGozr
11-28-2004, 04:59 PM
i really want to see the datas yes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif the UTI was the trainer.

THX bogun.

Bogun
11-28-2004, 05:21 PM
UTI - УТ˜ stand for "УÑ"µбно-ТÑ€µн¸Ñ€о²оÑ"нÑ"' ˜ÑÑ"Ñ€µб¸Ñ"µлÑŒ" - "learning-training fighter".

There was no UTI version of Yak-3. And because of this - it did not have radial engine. Post-war Yak-11 is the closest thing to it, but in never had destignation Yak-3 UTI. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Don't believe everything you find on the internet. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif